Transcripts For MSNBC Alex Wagner Tonight 20240921

Dropped out of the president ial race the earliest signs we saw of enthusiasm for Kamala Harris, the first indications she might change the fundamental dynamics of this race were these headlines. Tens of thousands of black women mobilize to Support Kamala Harris. We were built for this moment, black Women Rally around harris. When we vote, we make history. Black female Leaders Rally around Kamala Harris. The very same day that President Biden announced he was withdrawing from the race, a group called Win With Black Women held an Organizing Call that was quickly flooded with Support. 40,000 people logged on putting the online meeting at capacity while another 50,000 streamed the event from other platforms. Now, tonight that same group, Win With Black Women, is holding another major event for Kamala Harris this time with the help of one of her most powerful surrogates. Lets all choose Kamala Harris tonight, just before we got on the air, Tens Of Thousands of Kamala Harris Supporters logged on including some very high profile Supporters. Theres brian cranston. Hey, brian. Hello, hello. Chris rock is In The House. Ben stiller, jennifer lopez, tracy ellis ross. Julia roberts, where are you . And ms. Meril streep is In The House. Vice president Kamala Harris took questions from the Audience And Oprah winfrey herself. It seems to us something happened to you the moment Joe Biden, President Biden stepped aside and withdrew his candidacy, that a Veil Or Something dropped and you just stepped into your power. You know, we each have those moments in our lives where its time to step up, so i felt a great responsibility, and the incredible power of the people, right, who and im not the only leader in this. Were all leaders in this. This is so much bigger than me. The reason that events like this are so important is because black voters and in particular black women vote rrz the key to a potential future Kamala Harris victory. And here is how Win With Black Women put it when talking about how all this came together. What we knew was that it was a moment in our country to show what black women have always done. I just think that it is an honor for all of us to be able to usher in this moment knowing that those who watered this mighty field are now allowing us to eat of the fruit. For decades black women have been the backbone of the democratic coalition. Their Support helped propel Joe Biden to the democratic nomination in 2020 and then helped put him over the Finish Line in key Swing States like georgia during the general election. But for most of this year, there have been warning signs the democratic Support black voters was slipping. That all began to change when democrats switched their ticket. In the past two months Kamala Harris has seen an outpouring of Support-and-enthusiasm'>Support And Enthusiasm and organizing from the black community. One notable example has been Support from americas historically black fraternities and sororitiess known as the divine nine. Kamala harris herself is an Alum Nuof a divine nine sorority. And this year americas oldest black sorority created its first ever political Action Committee to get involved in this Years Election while others have begun diverting resources in get out the vote efforts including launching new ads in Swing States like pennsylvania, ones that are targeting black voters. A child born today, they have fewer rights than her mother and her grandmother. Right now those hard earned rights are being threatened. The right to vote. The right to choose. Even the right to learn our history. Now its up to us to stand up. Organize and use our power, our right to vote. It only takes one person to change the world. Imagine what we can do together. You can see this enthusiasm in the polling. A new Howard University Poll of black voters in Swing States finds Kamala Harris winning 82 of black voters in arizona, georgia, michigan, nevada, North Carolina, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. Donald trump, on the other hand, gets only 12 of black votes. Harris numbers are close to Bidens Share of the black vote in those same Battleground States in the 2020 election suggesting harris has gained back most of the ground lost among black voters since then. Most but not all. While this new polling shows Vice President harris getting Support from nearly every subgroup of black voters, theres one group proving harder to win over, young black men. When you look specifically at black men under 50 without college degrees, then Support for trump rises to more than 1 in 4 black men. So that may be why Kamala Harris told the National Association Of Black Journalists this week that she isnt taking black men and their votes for granted. I think its very important to not operate from the assumption that black men are in anybodys pocket. Black men are like any other voting group. You got to earn their vote. So im working to earn the vote, not assuming im going to have it because i am black but because the policies and the perspectives i have understands what we must do to recognize the needs of all communities. And i intend to be a president for all people. Joining me now is melissa murray, the cohost of an upcoming special here on msnbc called black women in america. Also cohost of an earlier nbc special called black men in america, the road to 2024. Melissa and charles, its great to have two people on the road talking to black voters about the exact topics were going to go into tonight. First let me start with your reaction to this Oprah Event i believe is just wrapping up. I understand the inclination to do an event with oprah. If oprah called me it wouldnt matter what its about, id go do it with her. And certainly theres a lot of stars lined up in this event. I do wonder in ginning up enthusiasm where she most needs it, do you think oprah makes a difference. Im going to say i think its a real missed opportunity if oprah doesnt tell every woman in that crowd to look under their seat because you get a democracy, you get a democracy. Missed opportunity. I dont know if shes going to play with young black men who are skeptical but there is Support within the black community and that could be important in translating to young black men like their mothers and grandmothers, everyone in the community behind this. Maybe theres a reason for this and maybe i should investigate or interrogate why im not quite in line yet. Can you expand on that, charles . Is that the family dynamic, the matriarch coming together and saying you will vote. Theres a number of black men i spoke to in the course of filming black men in america, the road to 2024, who expressed part of the issue they are having is the way people are talking to them about their vote as opposed to having conversations with them. A lot of black men have expressed feeling folks are talking at them and castigating them for having questions, for having apprehension, reservations, wanting to see some policy before they make a decision and commit. And so at the end of the day youre still talking about men. Theres a feeling in respects of hold on, who are you talking to like that . You Cant Sort of shame me to the polls. Thats not an effective strategy. And you can see that in her response of the conference when she said, look, i dont take them for granted, i know i need to earn it. Give me a reason why. And i think part of the problem with democratic messaging for some people has been you have been selling a vision of less last, meaning that ive survived Donald Trump one, and now youre telling me this is going to be worse. But at the same time you told me the same thing about george bush, told me the same thing about ronald reagan. Im not saying its valid. But if for example im a Black Man whos only seen the Unemployment Rate in this country be surpassed by nativeamerican men and no other demographic selling the vision of best last is not the best way to go. One of the things we saw talking to black women, its not just black men who have questions. Women of my age and older, they are saladly in that camp and they were even before the switch. We talked to women who said i will vote for Joe Bidens desiccated body if the comes to that. These younger women, they have question. And one of the things interesting to me they talked about questions of Police Brutality. The biden administration done a lot around, one of the most historic Executive Orders putting money into Policing And Police accountability. We dont really talk about that on the media because we spent it last year covering January 6th and trumps trials. Police brutality, the appalling footage of Police Brutality continues to be generated independent of the biden administration. Heres another part of it, and this came out very clearly and i think its the same with black men. It occurred to me this is the generation of people who grew up in schools after no child left behind. So they grew up in an educational system were divested of Music And Pe and civics education. So they may not understand as clearly as people in the media and the law and what not, but the president has limited power over the 18 departments. Thats a Municipality And Locality issue. Part of this they want to see change, but theyre looking to the president , and maybe thats not the person whos going to do this. We really have to think about in the way in which our electorate is being educated, what it means downstream because this isnt just about black men. I think were going to see this further down the line with different groups. Where you account for the educational divide thats where youre seeing the biggest cleave towards trump. The positive case for voting for harris, then theres also the case for voting for harris as an antidote to trump. Ive got to wonder what you think of the rhetoric coming out directed at springfield, ohio. I think we have the clip if we can play it for you guys so we can hear how shes framing it. Ever since the debate we feel for our fellow citizens in springfield. Do you not think about the citizens in springfield, ohio. The haitian families, nonhaitian families, everybody having to deal with this lie that has endangered the lives of haitian people and everybody who looks haitian. Everybody in america feels for that. Okay, the key part of that i think is everybody having to deal with this lie that has endangered the lives of haitian people and anybody who looks haitian. We had the chair of the local Naacp Chapter on yesterday, charles. And she was saying how her Grandchildren Cant go to school. Shes worried about them. Theyre not haitian. Theyre black. And ive got to wonder one of the areas where Kamala Harris has the most ground on Donald Trump is immigration and the economy. Talk about immigration for second, when you hear the rhetoric around immigration, how hes vilifying people of color in the united states, they could be haitian, they could just be black, is that not a deterrent . Do you think that matters in your experience and granted this is before any of this Springfield Stuff came up, but is that the kind of stuff going to penetrate, you know, young black men and their sort of like their Information Bubble . I think the notion of Donald Trump as someone who is a racist is not something thats new or far to young black male voters. I think with respect to what were seeing in springfield and what we saw with those comments, it needs to be formed more broadly and under the umbrella of White Nationalism. And the reason for that is racism is one lane. But when youre talking about White Nationalism, now you invite xenophobia and a number of different isms into the picture with other people. Its not just a conversation black people or haitian people or people who are dark skinned dominicans or dark skinned cubans need to be worried about. It is a conversation if you are not a wealthy, straight, white male you can be othered under this notion of White Nationalism because it is a virus that spreads. And it is a virus that Donald Trump has no problem unleashing along with j. D. Vance on the entire electorate. And so because of that, you have to expand the framing so that people understand this is not just a racial issue that extends to people who might appear to be haitian in some way. This is something that potentially has the ability to affect all of us who can be othered. The white Nationalism Frame i think also encompasses some of the issues that harris is actually good on, like abortion. One of the things that really hasnt been talked about enough is the way in which this antiabortion rhetoric is also accompanied by replacement theory. Like theres a reason why you want to stop women from terminating their pregnancy, certain women. And theres a reason why youre fine with certain women like amber therman, bleeding out in parking lots. And so the worst effects of these Abortion Bans are going to be visited on poor women, women of color. Were seeing that. And its now that its also spreading to women who look like random suburban moms, and now its becoming a real issue. But its always been an issue for women of color, and shes made that really clear. I think joining it to this broader message about White Nationalism makes the issue really salient and theres a real choice here. Also aided by the fact there are neonazis Marching Inspringfield are and theyre explicitly talking about the great replacement theory. So the Data Points are there, its just people may be connecting them to the candidates. Melissa murray, charles coleman, thank you for joining me tonight. Really appreciate it. Coming up Trump Lackey and sitting united States Senator Lindsey graham makes a secret trip to the State Of Nebraska to try and convince republicans to change the way The State Awards its electoral votes. I wonder who sent him . But first the republican candidate for governor of North Carolina refers to himself as black nazi on a Porn Website called Nude Africa, and he has no intention of leaving the race. Thats next. Intention of Leavi Race thats next. Draws away heat, relieves pressure and instantly adapts. Sleep better. Live purple. Visit purple. Com or a store near you today the moment i met him i knew he was my soulmate. Soulmates. Soulmate [giggles] why do you need me . [laughs sarcastically] but then we switched to tmobile 5g home internet. And now his attention is spent elsewhere. But im thinking of her the whole time. Thats so much worse. Why is that thing in bed with you . This is where it gets the best signal from the Cell Tower ive tried everywhere else In The House theres always a new excuse. Well if we got xfinity you wouldnt have to mess around with the connection. Therapys tough, huh . Mmm. Its like a lot about me. [laughs] a Home Router should never be a home wrecker. Oo this is a good book title. And i quote, i am a black nazi, slavery is not bad, some people need to be slaves, i wish they would bring it slavery back. I would certainly buy a few. That is alleged commentary from Mark Robinson, the current republican candidate for governor in the key Swing State of North Carolina and an ally of the republican nominee for president , Donald Trump. According to reporting from Cnn Today robinson under the User Name Mini soldier wrote these and plenty of other comments on a Porn Website called Need Africa between the years 2008 and 2012. While endorsing slavery and cosigning On Nazisms would mark a new low for even Mark Robinson, hes no stranger to shocking hateful commentary on topics ranging from abortion to the holocaust to the lgbtq plus community. Robinson today vehemently denied that he posted these comments and insists he will not exit the governors race. This is not us. These are not our words, and this is not anything that is characteristic of me, nor has it ever been. How do you explain all the matching details on this profile, the profile on Nude Africa lists your full name as Mark Robinson. The email listed on the account is an email that you have used elsewhere on the internet including with your photo. Im not going to get into the minutia how someone might manufacture these salacious tabloid lies, but i can tell you this. Theres been over 1 Million spent on me through a. I. By a Billionaires Son whos bound and determined to destroy me. Joining me now is sam stein, Managing Editor at the Bulwark And Msnbc contributor. Sam, it was all a. I. That did it. I just want to remind everybody at home these are posts from 2008 to 2012, which was really the prea. I. Era. And Mini Soldier is also Mark Robinsons official handle on i believe pinterest, youtube, and twitter. What do you make of his excuse thus far . Its remarkable how advance a. I. Has become it can serve 15yearold internet postings. First of all, this whole thing is ridiculous. Im glad i can come on and talk about Nude Africa. Obviously im not the expert on the subject matter. This is ridiculous. In a way its kind of consulting to the constituents of North Carolina, specifically the republican ones, that Mark Robinson believes that he can survive this. No one really thinks hes going to win the governors race. But the idea this type of article would come up and he would not have introspection and say maybe im not the best person, really suggests that he thinks that the constituents of North Carolina and the Republican Party primarily can be duped, can be suckered, can be told that, in fact, everything in front of them is not rule when its generated by a. I. And they shouldnt believe the compelling evidence of sort of grotesque and sensitive statements of behavior. And so thats just the reality we live in these days, but i guess this is the sort of Trump Era politics, right, you just plow forward through the most salacious of scandals. Yeah, well i think maybe the most appalling part about it is his calculation might be right. I mean the North Carolina Republican Party is standing by Mark Robinson, a man who as you point out is 8 points behind in this race, right . Im not even saying it would be understandable if he was neck and neck, but the fact they have every reason to get this man out of the race and are choosing not to, tells you as much about the North Carolina Republican Party as it does tell you about Mark Robinson. My question to you is do you think any of this rebounds to Donald Trump whos a Mark Robinson ally and he said the man he thinks hes better than Martin Luther King. I think you are Martin Luther King times two. I mean do you think the stechb of this Scandal Wafts over to Donald Trump or no . First of all, the Fact Trump compared robinson to Martin Luther King, we know he took that as an insult based on his Internet History posting insensitive things about Martin Luther King. So maybe that wasnt the best compliment to pay the guy. Obviously it doesnt help. You want someone running for governor who can bring in people you are depending on. Usually its the top of the ticket that gives the benefits down ballot. In this case Mark Robinson would benefit from trump, but i talked to a couple of republicans from North Carolina today for a piece we have on the bulwark, and theyre like this is a huge distraction. He cannot go into the state and appear with Mark Robinson anymore. Fee goes into the state hes going to be asked while he was so effusive of his praise of this guy. Did they not vet him. Of course if youre in North Carolina with introspection youll say is this the ticket, are these the elected officials i want to elevate . I dont know its going to have a huge impact on Donald Trump but keep in mind this is the state harris people have continuously said is their kind of, you know, main prize for flipping, more so almost than georgia. So this is already bound to be a very close state, and this does not help in the slightest for trump. Yeah, its such a good point. I mean it makes North Carolina like a sort of kryptonite for trump because if he goes there hes going to have to talk literally about the website Nude Africa and black nazism. Its like the words rolloff your tongue and its hard to believe it. Its hard to understand what youre saying. Just to be clear not my words, Mark Robinsons alleged words. Ive got to ask put on your Sher Lock Homes Hat for a moment. The timing is interesting, is it not . This is the moment for Mark Robinson to stay on the ballot or have his name removed, and this is breaking right now. Now, that is not to diminish the excellent kfile reporting that i know went into this, but does this smack a little bit of Opposition Research to you from the democratic candidate . So, no, not the i thought about this, too. I dont think democrats would be either first of all, Andrew Kaczynski is an amazing reporter. This fits the incredible scoops hes done throughout his career. I did before i knew it was andrew, i did have this exact thought. And i was thinking, well, i talked to a couple of democrats in national politics close to the harris campaign, and they were all sort of despondent. They were like why is this coming out on September 19th . We need it out on october 19th. They wanted it much further. And then republicans, look, its iptheory i guess if youre a republican you wanted robinson to leave, and this would be the time to do it. But the truth is this is way too late. Even if he were to leave thered be a huge swath of people first of all, hes going to fight it. Hes fighting it. Theres going to be a huge swath of the electorate who feels like you cant abandon these people, you have to fight any accusation in the main stream media. And the mere act of giving in is political defeat in and of itself. And so were at this place where republicans cannot quit races, where they cannot step aside because that would depress the base so much. I no matter how repellent the candidate is, you standby your man even when you have to say the words black nazi over and over again. Sam stein, thank you for your reporting. Thank you for your analysis. Thank you for your time, my friend. Thank you for saying Nude Africa. Anytime. Coming up why did Lindsey Graham make a secret trip to nebraska . Its like 2020 all over again. Well get to that. But first, another day another round of polls, these ones showing Kamala Harris leading in key Swing States. Were going to have more on that with democratic Strategist Baz Shakir. Thats next. C Strategist Baz Shakir thats next. Kamala Harris Performance at last Weeks Debate is beginning to move the polls. Were now seeing slow but steady movement in the key States Harris needs the win. In pennsylvania three recent polls show harris leading trump. She is up by three, up by 6, and up by 4 points, leads that are outside the margin of error in two of these polls. Another very interesting Data Point comes from polling on how Kamala Harris Approval Rating has changed in pennsylvania. The new york times today found Harris Favorability in the state has risen to 51 , which is up 9 points since the last survey in early july. Joining me now is baz shakir, former Campaign Manager for Bernie Sanders 2020 president ial campaign. Hes also the Founder And Executive director of more perfect union. Its always great to hear from you, and i wonder as a Campaign Expert whether you can unpack the sort of the gulf that exists between people liking Kamala Harris, her favorability going up, but that not translating directly into a greater share of the vote. I mean, how do you explain people who are in significant numbers saying i like her but also not saying they can vote for her . Shes newer to a lot of people, and, you know, shes coming onto the scene less defined around her policies. The upshot around that, alex, The Room for growth for her is greater than Donald Trumps i think a majority of people in all the Battleground States around the country that Trump Isnt for him. He has to disparage a lot to vote Third Party or skip the president ial line. For Kamala Harris shes continuing to hopefully reach people on the Number One thing thats on their mind and that is the economy particularly for the people who are going to come on late, and i think the narrative of what are her values are still theyre probably the least defined for her, if you even listen to your first segment of young black voters, probably they know the least about her, know the least about her values. The opportunity is there for her, but she has to tell a story about what is it that animates you. Why do you want Government Power so much . Just to unpack that a little bit further, does that suggest that the undecided are basically the people saying they like Kamala Harris, they dont know if they can vote for her, its really all about what harris says in the closing weeks of this campaign. Basically the onus is on her to close the sale. Its not reel about Donald Trump at this point because they already like Kamala Harris, which suggests they dont like Donald Trump, and theyre not necessarily even considering him at this point. I think thats correct to the degree in how she talks about herself. Its not that she needs to tell more people that she lived a Middle Class life. Im not arguing that, and shes done that well enough to this point. I think its more about her reflecting that i know your life. I know the struggles youre going through, the pains that youre dealing with. I know the economic Insecurity And Lack of freedoms that you feel. Im aware of all those things, and i can contrast that with a person who i know doesnt get your life and thats Donald Trump. And most people know vast majorities that Donald Trump stands for the wealthy, so youve got that working to your advantage. Now, youve got to show you stand with the people and you know and understand their lives. I dont think youre going to expect youre going to solve their problems immediately. The opportunity is ripe for her. You have Boeing Workers on strike. What are they striking about . 16 years i didnt get a pay raise, uaw workers. Youve got Dock Workers about to go on strike. What is it . Automation is taking our jobs. Much has been said of the teamsters. A new days ago amazon workers in the queens said we want to organize because drivers being exploited. If you can access and talk about the conditions of the economy i think the opportunities for growth for her are huge. I will say the polling on her being a trusted steward of the economy is getting better and better and better. I believe she is caught up to trump and maybe even surpassed him on the question who do you trust most to handle the economy. I mean, do you owe that to harris just being out there more . Do you credit that to argument she was making, which is very much what youre talking about, looking to the camera and saying im fighting for you, hes fighting for himself during the president ial debate . I mean what do you attribute that to . One, the convention did a great job and you saw the choices how they were going to frame the structural successes of her record and particularly as a prosecutor. I have prosecuted and fought for working people like yourself and the choices of the types of people across the ideological spectrum to vouch for her. Thats one. And two, if you look at the ads running. The Number One ad i was looking at the other day is about corporate price gouging. I know that you are feeling hurt and pain. I have a plan about going after corporations that are jacking up prices on you. Im going to go after corporate or private, or landlords. Im going to reduce the cost, and thats doing a lot of work for her to introduce her Policy Agenda as well. Faiz, does she need to do more media . And guess part of the frustration on the part of a lot of democrats is, a, Donald Trump has no plan except tax cuts that would raise tariffs all over the country, and yet harris is being told she needs to put more meat on the bone and they need to see more. Where does she need to display that . You talk about the striking workers, and even if she went to march on a Picket Line as she has, would that make the difference . I guess the question is how do you get the information out at this point . Is it sit down interviews ini mean she just an event with Oprah Winfrey online. Im not going to argue against her doing more media. I think shes good at it. I trust the principle on her, and i think shed do great in those settings. But even if you werent going to do more media events, i think its getting her into more settings and where shes interacting with more people and youre getting a flavor of values better showcased than at a rally and off a teleprompter. I think seeing her humanity, seeing her values, seeing how she expresses the ability to connect with people and understand the lives theyre going through, that to me is much more vital, and you can do that in a lot of different settings and a Town Hall or just going and interacting with regular workers in different settings. I can imagine that you could get creative with this, and you can also get creative on the platforms of tiktok, however you would put those things together. That to me is much more critical, and the media interviews can solve that as well. But i would focus more on making sure shes being able to connect with real people and documenting and showing that in animated and interesting ways. In the world of americans. Yes, with the people. A welt of information. Thank you for joining me tonight, my friend. Thank you, alex. Still to come, republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina turned up in the state of Nebraska Yesterday on a quest that if it works could hand the Electoral College to Donald Trump. We will explain coming up next. Trump. We will explain coming up next most people call leaffilter when their gutters are clogged and they notice one of the many issues that can bring. Sometimes its the smell of mildew when water has seeped into the interior walls. Or maybe theyve spotted mold in the attic. But most often its the more obvious signs of damage like rotten soffit, fascia, or Water Pooling near their foundation. You can get ahead of costly damage by protecting your homes gutters today. 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The difference is literally night and day. So now im always smiling or cheesing because now my teeth are much wither. Announcer this offer is not available in stores, so call or click now before the special buy one, get one free offer goes away. To the Governors Mansion now where 1011 was the only Media Outlet posted up outside as State Lawmakers along with South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham came together for a conversation regarding winner take all in that closed door meeting. Were told graham was trying to drum up Support to change the way nebraska hands out its Electoral College votes. Hold up. When was a republican senator from South Carolina doing in Nebraska Yesterday . Missing votes in the u. S. Senate to speak with the Nebraska State Legislature about how their state allocates its Electoral College votes. Well, to understand you have to zoom out a little bit. Almost every state in the country uses a winner takes all system to distribute its electoral votes. If you win california, you get all of californias electoral votes. If youre in texas, you get all of texas electoral votes. The two exceptions to that are the states of maine and nebraska. They split their electoral votes. For example, in 2020, Donald Trump won most of nebraska, but Joe Biden still walked away with one electoral vote from the state. And Joe Biden won most of maine, but Donald Trump still got one of that states electoral votes. Cut to 2024, and this election is so close it is so close that those single electoral votes could be the margin that decides the whole race. If she were to hold those three states wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania there you go, you see it. Shes at exactly 270 votes. Okay, now, maine is a reliably blue State And Nebraska is a reliably red state, so historically the two states have balanced each other out. You get one from here, you get one from here. But it seems like South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham wants to change that. He wants the red State Of Nebraska to become winner take all. And if he gets what he wants, then Donald Trump would have an edge, an edge that would come too late for the state of maine to do anything about. For the state of maine, for example, to change the way it allocates its electoral votes and make that winner take all. Why is it too late . It is too late because yesterday was not just any random wednesday. Yesterday was 90 days until december 17th, which is the day that all of maines electors cast their electoral votes. That is when maines Electoral College votes is actually locked in. And in maine a bill only becomes a law 90 days after its passed unless the bill gets a two Thirds Vote in both chambers and democrats in the state dont have the votes to do that. So they have to abide by this deadline, 90 days. So if mainers want to make any changes to their electoral vote allocation, they have to do so by yesterday, which is 90 days until december 17th, the day they certify those electoral votes. So Lindsey Graham and his republican friends in nebraska are essentially trying to pull a fast one here to change the rules of the electoral count in nebraska in a way that will benefit trump. And to do so just late enough that democrats in Maine Cant Respond by leveling the playing field. If this is all ringing a faint and distant bell to you it might be because of what Lindsey Graham did in the year of 2020. Before Donald Trumps infamous call telling Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to find him 12,000 votes to flip the results of the election, before that it was South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham calling up the Georgia Secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, pressuring him to toss certain mailin ballots that would give Donald Trump an edge. Now, Brad Raffensperger did not bend to either attempts, but theres a pattern here. Am i right . Republican Senator Lindsey Graham traveling the country, trying to make our elections less democratic. Lindsey graham knows it is almost without question that Vice President harris will win the Popular Vote in november, and he knows that despite all of the advantages the Electoral College gives Donald Trump, that this race could very well be decided by just a handful of Electoral College votes. But rather than trying to actually convince people why they should vote for Donald Trump, Lindsey Graham is trying to disenfranchise them. What was your argument, though, about the idea of having nebraska be a winner takes all state . I think you nebraska should not be the state that gives her the presidency. Mark leibovich joins me to discuss all of that coming up next. Ibovich joins me to discuss all of that coming up next i went and talked to some senators and the governor. Senator richardson, the governor, asked me to come out and talk about the caucus, i guess thats what you call it, about the State Of The World and the consequences of the next election on Foreign Policy front. That was Senator Lindsey Graham, republican of South Carolina this morning after a quick hop to the midwest yesterday to drum up Support for a vote that would prevent the State Of Nebraska from awarding one of its five Electoral College votes to Kamala Harris. Joining me now is mark leibovich, Staff Writer at the atlantic whose latest piece is called hypocrisy, spinelessness, and the trim of Donald Trump. Okay, timely piece here, mark. First of all, Lindsey Graham saying he just went to nebraska to talk Foreign Policy. Like why bother at this point . I mean who among us hasnt, right . If we know one thing about Lindsey Graham hes a student of Nebraska And History and the legislative Constitution Of Maine and what have you. No, its bizarre. You covered the kirkiness of it, which could obviously have a huge impact on this election. The personal aspect of Lindsey Graham it almost seems to fall on some Errand Boy Kind of chore he does whether its down in Georgia Or Nebraska like today. If you look at this, his bearing in that interview you just showed in the clip, he just seems kind of defeated or confused or tired. He almost doesnt know what its not like a larger principle is guiding him or anything. Its like this adhesive to the objective Donald Trump, wherever he sends him. I hate to use the word of the day, but its just weird. You know Lindsey Graham of washington. It is just stunning to see the man who once called trump a race baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot then did his bidding in the 2020 election to try to subvert democratic votes and is now doing this to try to change the way a state in the midwest allocates its Electoral College. The shamelessness is staggering and goes right to the piece you have in the atlantic where you talk about the way in which Trump Rolls over weaklings or aims to Rollover Politicians who trump considers sacks and weeklings. I wonder now about the few holdouts in the State Of Nebraska who are almost certainly going to get calls from Donald Trump, those republicans in the State Legislature who are standing between him and maybe one more Electoral College vote. Yeah, id be surprised if they havent already. When you get right down to it, were talking about a few votes. There are some steadfast republicans apparently not committed to voting for this. Its the oldfashioned Arm Twisting Lobbying from nationally known politicians like Lindsey Graham and certainly Donald Trump, you know, might be susceptible to this kind of thing. Again, if im like a citizen of South Carolina, im thinking what is my senator doing here . Put all the quaintness of that aside, its just a strange role he continues to take on for himself. And look, if theres one thing weve seen about Donald Trump is he can seize on the weakness of individual politicians that he feels he can rollover, and in this case entire political parties from which Lindsey Graham at one point had a lot of principles and had a lot was seen as an honest broker in these things, has been completely turned into a big pile of jello on these things. I do wonder, though, you can see this coming from a mile away given all the chicanery in around and the 2020 election. Does it surprise you democrats have not been lobbying maine for their winner takes all. It seems to be no plan on the left. I think when you get right down to it this is all legal, right . I mean states that Control Legislatures and parties that Control Legislatures can change laws, can change constitutions. Certainly a separate group of people would have credited them for being savvy on this. Maybe this could have a massive difference in the Course And Trajectory of the nations future, but hopefully you know, hopefully its just going to be a sideshow that well never speak of again. Yeah. If we are talking about this on november 6, 7, 8 and 9th, it is not good for the country. As fun as this is. As fun as it is. Mark leibovich with the atlantic, thank you, my friend, for your time tonight. That is our show for this evening. Way too early with Jonathan Lemire is coming up next. Knowing what is at stake in terms of fundamental