Live coverage here on msnbc of tonights president ial debate between President Joe Biden and former president donald trump. We said it would be a debate unlike any other. It certainly was that in this first ever ly was that in thi came out of the s gate with firsa t ever go unexpectedly weak voice. Voice that at times made it hard to discern. The Campaign Said it was the result of a cold. He did seem to falter several times early on in terms of trying to speak in a way that could be heard in in terms of speaking to time as the red lights, Flashing Red Lights came on to stop him as the rules of the debate indicated two minute and one minute segments. This is a live shot weve got right here. President biden and First Lady Jill Biden walking out on stage. This is at a watch party in atlanta. You mightve noticed at the very end of the debate, as soon as the moderators said good night, boom, lost the shop. We did not get to see President Bidens wife, the first lady, or anyone else walking on the stage away couldnt see what the candidates did after. They have left the venue and gone to this watch party event, President Biden and first lady speaking. [ cheers and applause ] thank you. Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. I cant all enough for staying in being here and for all your support. Joe, you did such a great job. You answered every question. [ cheers and applause ]. Let me ask the crowd, what did trump do . Lie. Yes. Joe, im going to hand it over to you. We have such a great group of f supporters here. Thank you all for coming. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You been here the whole time. Look, folks, i shouldnt say this but my brother uses lines from movies. Theres a famous movie with john wayne and hes working for the northern military trying to get the apaches back in the reservation and they were lying and sitting on a bluff and john wayne was sitting with two apaches. One of them looked at john wayne and said, these guys are nothing but dog faced pony soldiers. Hes a liar. Whats going to happen the next couple of days is there he will be out there factchecking all the things he said. I cant think of one thing he said that was true. Im not being facetious. We are going to beat this guy. We need to beat this guy. And i need you in order to beat tim, you are the people i am running for. We need you we need you he says hes going to be the retribution for his supporters. You are the reason why america is as good as we are. The finest nation in the whole world. Lets keep going. See you at the next one. Gut love you all. Heading to North Carolina. All right. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I want to go home with you. Thank you. President biden, its a live shot in atlanta at a watch party in atlanta. Handing the microphone back to is that pretty tammy the dj . Beyonce kicks in and the president is dancing. This you heard his voice and his energy there and his cadence there. A world away from what you heard on the debate stage. You have. That joe biden would have killed in that debate. The joe biden that we saw on the debate stage was about 90 more softspoken than that and in a monotone when you could not discern him. I will say President Biden, my opinion, very much seemed to warm up through the 90 minutes a of the debate and clearly beyond where we saw him right there. Vintage joe biden. His opponent, former President Trump, you saw President Biden criticizing e him as having lie in every answer. I think i would describe former President Trumps performance as having been very confident and sort of coherent, meaning he was speaking in sentences and saying things you could understand whether you agreed. He became much more aggressive, much less coherent, and repeatedly failed to answer questions post by the moderators which people in debating always do but it became embarrassing when they would reiterate and reiterate and reiterate the question and he would go back to, in many cases, points from earlier in the debate where he had come off very badly are points where he had lost. Calling members of the militaryh who had given their lives suckers and losers. It was donald trump who brought that up over and over again which not only was not smart but confusing. Of course, as we have been of saying, the only question that matters is how did it affect voters who tuned in and are still trying to make a decision. I am glad i just wanted to jump off what you said about the trump line of this. David plouffe made a good point. He sounded like trump andy was relatively modulated and concise and sis and then got way more trump. It is in there is this aura around trumps mystical appeal that he is unlikable and repellent to voters. That shtick which is the sledgehammer, petulant, self aggrandizing, self obsessed, he asked me about fentanyl. Let me tell you something about me. You asked me about childcare but let me tell you something about me. Voters dont like that and theres a reason he lost the popular vote the first time he ran against Hillary Clinton and the second time by a larger th margin. It was a reminder of that. That reminder group, to your point, more acute over the course of the evening the more he kept crawling up into his own previous references as the night when im. Its easy to be mired in the biden of it. My phone is mired in the biden of it but you cannot leave out of this numbera 1, i thought that he gracious lack of fact checking. Its not the moderators job to debate trumpet he was allowed to say lies that on our programs we will play a lot of it with a slew of fact checks. He denied the words he literally said on camera in charlottesville. Its not like we hallucinated that. He said thats a lie. He said nancy pelosi took full responsibility for everything that happened on january 6 and theres a Documentary Video to where we can get the fact check by saying, her daughter made a documentary. Thats where she said it was her fault. We will just pull the documentary, man. Weve seen the footage. Nancy pelosi trying to get someone to defend the capitol because trump will not. Because he sick his mob of reporters on the Tara Setmayer came there with weapons and zip ties and nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumers and other members of congress were trying to get forces to come to defend them despite the fact that trump wasnt bringing them in. When he said he had the morals of an alleycat, thats an old guy move i can respect. The morals of an alleycat. He did get one good line. The other thing, we will move to what happens now because we dont know how voters experienced a. Is like covering the trial. We could live or die by but we had no idea what a single juror felt until the verdict. We have no idea what voters think. Popular incumbent based on Steve Kornackis chart has a Single Mission when running for reelection and thats to make it a choice a referendum. If the Biden Campaign can launch a brutal and true and deserving attack on donald trump, by the time the sun comes up, this washes out more quickly. It doesnt erase the fact that there are conversations going on in the democratic supporters and people close to this president who dont just like him but love him who think they should explore him getting out of the race and putting someone up at that convention. The campaign can do itself a lot of good by making a powerful, having a powerful endorsement, someone that saw donald trump of clothes in the morning and that will go a long way toward washing this out of a the cycle. This is the way the voters are going into the Fourth Of July weekend with whatever they defined. Most voters were completely unaffected by this because their minds are made up and unchangeable by this debate. When we come back from the Fourth Of July weekend, the next thing, the next thing on the Campaign Calendar is one of those candidates out there tonight is going to be sentenced by a judge on july 11, sentenced for 34 felonies. We dont know how big a day that is going to be in the campaign in terms of what to the polls look like after that . There are events coming up that are uncontrollable. The sentencing of donald trump. Its not going to be a good day. He might get a Fundraising Bump out of it in that perverse way they do. Thats not going to help him with any of the voters he needs to get to win who he doesnt yet have who he needs to win. The issue you were talking about whether or not President Bidens position on the ticket is safe, David Plouffe saying thats not going to happen. That is a fantasy saying, you either need to write the shipper do the thing thats noth going to happen which is to replace him on the ticket. I do not think thats an option. The fact people are talking about it, if its not an option, only seeks to further weaken the standing. The question is whether you are hearing that it is an option. I spoke to an election lawyer and it is legal and joe biden releases his delegates ahead of a convention. You can do it on the first boat but the second but they can go somewhere else. It is legal. It is possible and people say it wont happen because they say joe biden wont do it because of the reasons joy articulated, hes the only person who believed who be trump. Someone sent me the rules. The rules are circulating. Again, this is not saying this is going to happen. Its very unlikely. To note the Republican Convention has 110 unbound delegates in the Democratic Party has 771 unbound delegates. It doesnt mean they will do anything. There are 3000 delegates a happeneg on the first ballot an it takes 1951 delegates to inject 1976 two win. Doing the math only matters if it happens. The question is whether it will happen. David plouffes taken that is probably correct. My colleague alex wagner is standing by with california governor gavin newsom. I cannot wait for this conversation. Neither can i. You cant see it, all of trumps shortlist vp nominees are walking around. Nobody wants to talk to them. It was like Human Puranas descending on the governor after this debate. What was your reaction to what h we saw on screen . He won the debate on substance. I am old school, oldfashioned, and thats what matters to me. I was taking notes about the lies and ran out of paper. Trump no accountability, talking down the American Economy and talking down the democracy. That was alarming. This is a world we are living in donald trump created were 13 yearolds have to deliver the child of the person that impregnated them. Its a world that donald trump has created. For me, it was daylight and darkness. I am proud of the president s record and for his vision of the future. Lets talk about the substance. The signature issue the democrats have is abortion and the president s response was garbled and undirected. Do you feel he did what he needed on an issue that could motivate voters . Its significant and insignificant. The American People made up their minds and they do not support the policies of trump for his assertion the American People always wanted this to be states rights. Thats laughable. I dont think that will matter. You saw it in all the election since dobbs where democrats are over performing. We keep winning. For all erof us, worry less and do more. The opportunity to turn the page or put our heads down and the opportunity to have the back of this president who has had our back. You dont turn your back. 100 , all in and i was very proud he was able to articulate the word he has done and Lay A Foundation Of Understanding of the lies and deceits the comes out of trumps mouth. You for getting questions about whether biden should step down. There is panic that has set in. Among people who have watched the debate and democrats and strategists ocand some inside democratic campaigns. Is it unfounded . I think its unhelpful and unnecessary. Weve got to keep our we have to have the back of this president. You dont turn your back because of one performance. What party does that . 15. 6 million jobs, eight times more than the last three republican president s combined. The only thing the last three republican president s have are recessions. Democrats deliver and this president delivered and we need to deliver for him. The more time we start having these conversations, unhelpful to the democracy, our fate and future of the country, the world. They need us right now to step up and thats what i intend to do. This was a Biden Campaign strategy. It was their idea to do this debate now and i wonder what you think they got out of it . What was bidens strongest . He got stronger and had more stamina over the debate. T was there one moment that sticks . That is difficult to assess. I need more time away from thisr to pick those moments. The bottom line is it was an opportunity distill the essence of what this campaign is about. Messaging from the campaign with the key messages. Go to North Carolina tomorrow and will get on the road. Surrogates need to step up and we need to support this Grassroots Effort across the United States. We need to raise money and understand what is at stake if we do not. We need to understand whats at stake if we turn our back. If biden and trumper remembered for any line, to me it would be the line, i didnt have sex with a porn star which is something weve never heard on the debate stage. When you use the words i didnt have sex with a porn star, you are losing. Our friends in your calf questions. Its rachel maddow. Thank you for taking the time. When you said worry less and do more, do what . What do you think people who support President Biden, people in Democratic Politics, planning and voting for her him seem worried he was older and he didnt reassure people on stamina issues, what should people do . Talk about what he has done and what hes done recently. Delivered, unprecedented legislation. Infrastructure bill, chips and science act and the work is done across the spectrum of issues to deliver for the American People in the vision he has laid out in the future ai and contrast that, contrast that and drive that contrasted the dystopian vision that donald trump has to stthe futur its a binary choice. We have to drive that contrast even harder. Trump didnt make that better tonight because he continued the lies and grievances and the retribution and language that no one wants to see moving forward. He is about the past. He wants to bring us back to pre1960s world, voting rights, civil rights, lgbtq rights, womens rights, access to abortion and contraception. Thats what we need to talk about. The fate and future this country and alliances around the world. We need to buck up and focus on whats at stake and not navelgazing look back. Its always about tomorrow. Everything is about tomorrow. In terms of bucking up and moving forward, if you were to advise the campaign how to to turbocharge, kick into another level, think they will have to make up ground they didnt have to make up because of this Debate Performance. What can they do that they are not doing . Should they do the second debate in september . Change course and some of the ways they are trying to communicate . I hear you making a strong case for President Bidens record, but i dont know what they should do to make the case more strongly than they have been . You double down on what we are doing. Six states across the country, im doing my small part. Theres hundreds and hundreds of us that will go out. We have a clear message in clear contrast with trump and his performance tonight and doubling down on lies and deceit. We have the opportunity to build a grassroots, get people e to recognize whats at stake if we do not unify as a Democratic Party. This is a choice selection. All i know what to do is wake up tomorrow and do more and do better and worry less. Its about action, passion, and purpose and having the back of a president who has had our ou back. You have talked a lot about President Biden and his performance and his accomplishments. If voters rfout there could see one answer from donald trump tonight for one moment that stuck out to you where you the people cannot elect this man, what would that be . Which of people out there was Social Media Platforms be pushing out there that was damaging and terrible from donald trump tonight . The way he talks about immigrants offends me. I live in the most diverse state in the most diverse democracy. 20 of my status foreignborn. We celebrate it. We practice pluralism. The way he talks about immigrants and talks down to the American People in terms of what makes this nation so great. The capacity to live and advance together across our differences. Is a fundamental. Its not one quick clip but all the things stacked together that represent what he has said over his entire career. He doesnt have your back. Full stop. We must have the back of a president of the United States at this critical moment and focus on tomorrow, focus on the future, focus on the vision that will ignite this country moving forward and talk about the stakes of falling short. Liberalism, liberalism. Daylight. Darkness. Yl i am sensing frustration with the format of this debate and the reductive is nature of the debate in this carnivallike atmosphere and the desire to get back to the essence of the issues in the choice ahead. Having said that, theres another to be scheduled. Do you think joe biden should participate . Absolutely. Weve all had those nights. All of us. Not one person watching has not had those nights. Its not about debates. You have good and bad moments. You wake up the next moment and dusted off. Its about resiliency. Thats with the American People and the economy is about. Thats what joe biden has been his whole life. Ive seen this over and over. Joe biden should pack it up he has no chance. After iowa, he has never given up fighting for us, fighting for democracy, our kids and grandkids. We have to have his back and i hope he does come back and i hope he is on the stage in another debate. Im sure we will want to talk to after that one too. You have a busy day job so thank you for your time. Its great To Be With You. Many thanks to you both. Jen psaki has joined us. What was your reaction a what do you hearing from people you have been talking to . I have been listening to what you have been saying. This was not the Debate Performance a Biden Campaign team wanted or needed from this debate. In part because they wanted to do it as early as they did to change this up. Bring the joe biden at the State Of The Union to the debate stage. Thats not the joe biden who showed up. You could see inklings of that at the Th Postdebate events. The last answer the debate. Its like, he has warmed up. As you said, he did improve as the night when im. His voice and answers improve. He had a couple of moments, calling outs criminality was pretty good. He was a little garb late on abortion. If youre the king and you push out the best moments on social media. Its not the debate they wanted. The biggest challenge, and nicole has talked about this, how distracting all the chatter is going to be which i am getting, we are all getting on text and email about whether he should be replaced. That chatter is happening. I dont mean is from the American Public at large. We dont know how they feel. If you look at history, it may not impact them at all. The chatter is very distracting and will be consuming for the campaign. Should he be replaced . They will be answering the question instead of breaking through attacking trump. Is the chatter from the Peanut Gallery from deciders . It depends on who deciders are. The deciders are the public. I have not heard that from Campaign Operatives but i have heard of from members of congress. I have heard from people who have worked many democratic campaigns. People along those lines. What do we do now . Can he still be replaced . Is that chatter the same chatter, i think lawrence made this point earlier, in two weeks when trump is sentenced in joe biden has a strong couple of weeks, it may not be. Its incumbent upon the campaign to dig out of this whole. That is not where you want to come out of a debate. I worked for President Obama in 2012 as his traveling Press Secretary when he absolutely bombed s the first debate. If he is watching, i am sorry to say that but it is a fact. That prompted him, Anybody Running for president is competitive. Joe biden is a competitive person. When their back is against the wall, maybe help bring his best self forward and we saw that in the postevent. Thats what they need to do but the distraction and chatter as a headache for them. If you were on the campaign now and you have this chatter and hearing what we are hearing, what do you think the next 24, 48 hours would you do . You have seen governor knows to this a little bit. He said he won the debate. He is an excellent surrogate. People have isbad nights. It was not a good night for joe biden. He was great after a good at the State Of The Union but it was not a good Debate Performance. You acknowledge that. It wasnt a great debate. You have to have out there and active in doing events and being very visible. The best thing you can do if a communicator is change the subject. Is there an announcement you can make . Is there a republican who is a surprise. If Chris Christie is waiting to endorse tomorrow, this is the day. I dont know what they have up their sleeves but thats what they need. I will say, and i dont know the answer to this, i dont know when the Vice President agreed to come on msnbc. I dont know if it was before the debate. You dont send the Vice President of the United States out if you won the debate. Typically. They are, i think, starting to think about we knew we were going to get the Vice President before. Re i think you will see her o there more and you should see him out there more. They need people like Governor Newsom and Gretchen Whitmer and wes moore on the airwaves. Thats what they need. On the Vice President question, the most Important Role of the Vice President is to vibe the understudy in case the worst e for the president. We have and spoke with Vice President Kamala Harris yet. Putting her out on debate night makes people think about her replacing joe biden . That is interesting because when people think of replacing him, they dont always mention Vice President harris, and they should. She is first and lined. People think of a brokered convention and what that might look like. I also think its important for the campaign and the biden team to show she is absolutely with him and has his back and has what it takes to be president. That outweighs the notion of she could replace him and how you weigh in on a campaign. Inside the campaign, who says what to the candidate about this debate . That is such a good question and i know because you have done these meetings. I remember in 2012 one President Obama found that to be that he was not aware he found the debate. They never are. They are in the moment. He did not know he bombed . He did not know. David plouffe who was just an earlier, and david axelrod, two closes advisers who went and told him he bombed the debate. He didnt watch it for a couple of days, and then he knew i did not do well. He gave One Of The Best ash and i was traveling with him, he gave One Of The Best performances at a rally the next day that he gave the entire year. They are competitive people. I would say in this moment, its a combination of like donnellan and Steve Ricchetti , who are conveying to him how the Debate Performance went. To weighing the debate this early was a Campaign Idea or his idea . Likely, a Campaign Idea that he would have to have signed off on. I have to say, and i am not convinced that it was bad to do with this early. Part of the calculus is, lets not likely we are free to debate. Lets debate early so if it goes badly, a lot more water will be under the bridge by the time anybody has to make a decision. Having this debate in june is better than in october. I agree. I thought it was a good idea from the standpoint that binds face from his own supporters, people with him but want to feel confident is the stamina question. Doing it in the summer, it has a july 4 timing vibe, it made logical sense. The problem is they did not deliver. Hadeed delivered a vigorous, even a decent performance, think this wouldve been a smart idea. Some of the decisions around it, putting him on the right, it seems like a small thing was the wrong decision. Shouldve put them on the left so it wouldve looked like he was looking at trump instead ofa looking out into the distance. Or tell him to look the different direction. Trump is a television performer. He is not a president. He didnt age when he was he president because he was not president. He was on the golf course the whole time. He knows tv and knows with a red light is and knows how to perform. Going against him, better optics. Lets bring an important new voices to this conversation. People we have been talking about, voters, joining from phoenix with he watched the debate with four voters. Gadi schwartz. A fascinating stuff at the top of your our. This is my panel right here. We are in the backyard in maricopa county. After we were done watching the debate, the tvs are over here and they do not have is you were talking about the possibility of Somebody Else other than biden running on the democratic ticket, they were talking about the same thing. They are completely removed from spin rooms thats happening over there in atlanta. Its interesting to hear you talk about that and to hear you will talk about that at the same time. I want to get your perspective and whether or not it changed. When we set this up, we were talking about double haters. People who do not like either candidate. How would you describe both candidates after tonight . Starting with you. Trump, he didnt really answer questions. He just kept rebutting what biden said are bringing up something that has nothing to do with the question. Biden was trying to answer the questions but was trying to rebut trump as well when coming at him about things that have nothing to do with like golfing or things like that. It got pretty heated when they talked about golf. Why are you talking about golfing . This is a political to pay on presidency and how you will be in office and your talking about golfing . Who has the better swing . Thats when i wanted to tune out. Jeff, you are not a democrat and yet you were talking who else can the democrats run right now. Tell me about your thinking . What we witnessed was the feeling i had inside was trump, hell, no. He lied through the whole thing. Biden is in can he run the rest of the election or take the white house again . Yeah, maybe open convention. The democrats, you are a mccain republican, could you vote for Somebody Else that runs in the democratic ticket . If they are not liars or cheats, its a tough choice, and you said it best but, trump is absolute no. He is a liar and thief. Its not acceptable. You dont lie and take accountability for yourself. At least biden is that we. He seems honorable and honest but i dont think he has the stamina. You just made an Observation Biden popped up, can you share your observation . It was interesting before it started we talked who would show up today. Which biden would show up or trump would show up . Would it be a circus . When trump was speaking, he has that orange skin and that silly smile and moves his hands like this and i want to put tambourines in between like the windup monkeyed because he pats his back. On here is biden who he would talk and whit was like the puppetmaster was, here i am. I will do this. Then i am over. His head was down. His eyes were glazed. It was like he was on, and he was off. I think both should think of an open convention. How do you categorize this choice . I mean, its like sophies choice but refers. I dont want to make either choice. I was not surprised by their o performance. Trump acted like trump and biden acted like biden and thats why i am frustrated. You are all talking about open conventions. There are thirdparty candidates, how do you feel about rfk jr. . I dont think he has the mental acuity. No comment. I havent really looked over his planner what he plans to do. I saw the petition trying to get him on the ballot, but thats about it. I dont think hes fit for this job of president. He did a fine job on the state level and good at doing other things, but not good enough for president. I look at who we have right now and lacking in leadership. Poor leadership for both of them. For someone to consider, im looking at leadership characteristics. S. I have been reluctant bringing this up because i dont want you to get hate fromy people, but the idea of i dont like any of these candidates, so i may not vote but im scared of people saying you have to vote. That seems to be a concern. Are you comfortable chatting about that . Is there a possibility you dont vote . Right now, absolutely. In 2016, all the chatter of ha its your american right. If you dont vote, you were voting for the other person. It had my husband and i prayerfully considering who do we vote for . With the two choices we have now, we dont vote for them. I can feel more confident not voting for either of them than i can trying to i did the lesser two gave us last time and january 6 happened. I wont do it again. When we were watching the debate, every time january 6 came forward, so you lean forward. When they talked about january 6 tonight, what went through your minds . Stop saying its Nancy Pelosis fault. Start taking former President Trump needs to take accountability for his part in this. I just dont even want to go go there because, our country and our public buildings were so defiled in that because he keeps saying the election was stolen from him. It was not stolen. N ro he was ousted and his four your job for the American People, he was fired and he needed to go and he did not go quietly. There was another moment when i was watching you intently and a lot of you lean forward when the question was about childcare. You in particular. You kept leaning forward. And you kept sitting back when you heard the question. The main thing that was bothering me was when biden was speaking about it, he said its only affecting black and hispanics, but childcare is expensive in general and affects everybody. Trump didnt answer it. He didnt answer at all but started talking about Something Else that had nothing to do with the question. Even the moderator had to bring him back. It was like, i dont like how theyre not giving solutions. I thought the debate was for solutions. This is what i will do when i get in office. Did you see or hear any solutions . I dont know that trump has any policy, policies and mine. I know biden does but how will he execute those policies if he returns to office . Its an open convention. Open convention. This is coming from non democrats talking open convention. One thing i thought that was important, a lot of times when people are watching politics, they think everyone is watching politics. Three of you said something that was fascinating. How many automated past three questions in the debate before turning the tv off . One. Just jeff. At one point if you werent watching and hanging out with us, what point would you have turned it off . What part turned you off completely . The fingerpointing. You do this and you did that. I came to watch, to try to watch two relatively sane people talk about what theyre going to do for the country and we got to check second graders having a slugfest on the playground. With that, i will ask you, who did you vote for in the last election . In the last election, i voted for everyone iran for an office except for president because i did not choose either candidate. I wrote myself in. With that, i will send it back to you. That would make for an interesting brokered conventionr at the breakfast bar. Denise the only declared candidate. The only one running a campaign that would give her a leg up. That was fascinating. With voters in phoenix tonight. Im glad we did that because that distills what you in particular were saying but a lot of this discussion. The first voter who he spoke with said it was insane they were talking about golfing. Trump is not answering questions and biden tried to answer. His answer was trump, hell, no i and hes a republican. He is a thief and a rapist but his answer on biden was no. He seems hes in bad shape but hes an honorable person. Third person said trump lied constantly. She wanted to put symbols between his hands. Trump lying all the time but biden she said poor thing. Describing him as being in and im in. That might be the thing. That was as positive a joe Biden Focus Group issue could have with those voters. The ballot is going to be trump versus biden. There is probably three biden voters, if they go to the polls and make that choice, and what we saw in whnonregistered democrat. There you see it. That republican guy who is old enough to have, at many times in his life, voted on enthusiastically. Voted for what we call the lesser of two evils before we knew how evil it could be. E. If you if that is his choice, he is going to go with joe biden no matter what joe bidens Stamina Level is and he is going to hope. In the meantime, one of the Educational Programs of the campaign, it might be for him in particular, look at how much joe biden has achieved with a weak voice in his 80s, he can still do that. Maybe theres a campaign here to stress the importance of staffpo to admit the president doesnt do it alone. For a voter like that, to understand that this is a vote he can cast. There was no one there saying, okay, thats the end of biden for me. The other thing is a highlights the importance of Kamala Harris. She gives the youth and vitality and vigor people want and its a reason they use her for. I think thats true. I have talked to friends who its all anecdotal and interesting to hear. R. What i am hearing is trump is a liar. Thats pretty powerful. Its not the people said joe biden had an amazing debate but trump is a liar and it is split in these focus groups. This is just a couple of them. There are many happening across the country. Its a reminder that we dont know how the debate will settle in with people. And trump did not help himself. When we have this concern about no factchecking in the debate, but they are telling us that donald trump was lying. They have enough experience to not need the factchecking. They know when he is lying. I dont think anybody in america has to have it explained that jan the other thing we will learn in coming days so smart voters are. Its anecdotal but its the thread, voters know a lot abouth both of these men already. If debates were the only thing that determines outcomes, neither of our bosses wouldve won. George bush lost the first two definitely. He had no idea that he had lost. There is a thing with incumbent president s, and i dont think joe biden is like this, but i have to debate this guy. Trump incited an insurrection against the government. I think the questions for the Biden Campaign are how quickly can you get back on offense tomorrow and quickly change the topic and how quickly can you reassure the Democratic Base and democratic donors and how quickly can you grow your coalition which has a lot of heat this week. Adam kinzinger and geoff duncan delivering a message straight to the republicans, no way no how with donald trump, how quickly can you get yourself to the imperatives of your own reelection. I would see two things. One his, if they rewatch the debate, if the president watches it, it is clear that his strength was when he was not listing data and numbers and trying to remember numbers and correctingbe himself and losing the thread. It was when he was passionately responding about veterans and january 6 and responding as a human and not as a statistician or recordkeeper as he was in the first half. The other thing that will be a challenge, this is the inside outside game, as voters and talking about them, but the democratic operatives is down ballot candidates. Down ballot candidates, watch the debate and they worry about him being at the top of the ticket. Their political operation will have to do a lot of Conference Calls and calls and handholding tonight and tomorrow to reassure them as well. We have much more to come. In a few minutes we will be speaking live with Vice President Kamala Harris. We have lots of questions for her. 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You sing about price lock on those commercials. the price lock, the price lock. so, if you could change the price, change the name its not a lock, i know a lock. So how can we undo the damage . We could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. Their connection is unreal. And we could all unexperience this whole session. Okay, thats uncalled for. The crimes you are still charged with, think of the Civil Penalties you have. How many billions of dollars deal for molesting a woman in public. Doing a range of things. Having sex with a porn star while your wife was pregnant. What are you talking about . You have the morals of an alley cat. I didnt have sex with a porn star. Indelible line from the debate. Also, nodding along with the other things he did and the only one hes rebutting is i did not have sex with the porn star. Thats the one we have factual record spoken under oath in Criminal Court and into the transcripts are available. That denial is not a credible denial and hes not denying the other things for which he has criminal and civil liability. What we just saw there, you saw how long it takes to show that. Thats what local tv news needs from a president ial debate. They need little clips like that. That will probably be the clip played a more local tv coverage. Joining us, i am honored to say as the Vice President of the United States, Kamala Harris. We are honored to have time with you. Thank you for being with us. Of course, good To Be With You. You have been hearing some of the response to the debate, the same that we have been issuing and hearing ourselves. A lot of people who are fans and supporters of President Biden or who are democrats or just worried about the prospect of donald trump returning to the presidency, feels it was not a Strong Performance from President Biden. I want to hear your assessment and how you respond to those critics. Well, it was a slow speed start. It was a strong finish and in particular because what we know is that when you look at the two sides of the ledger, but we had and joe biden was someone who wanted to have a debate based on facts and truth. Donald trump we had what we have come to expect is someone who pushes lies and distract from the reality of the damage he has created and continues to create in the country. When i think about the significance of the substance of what is before us in november and 130 days, we are looking at a president and joe biden who has done his stork work, whether it be on addressing the Infrastructure Issue in america. Donald trump kept talking there would be infrastructure but it never happened. It was joe biden who made it happen, over 1 trillion is hitting the streets of america to upgrade roads and bridges. If you look at what joe biden delivered to the American People whether the creation of 15 million new jobs over 800,000 manufacturing jobs, bringing manufacturing back to the United States. What we have done to cap the cost of insulin at 35 and taking on Big Pharma And Allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices, these are the substantive issues the American People care about. What We Saw Tonight is more the same. Joe biden fighting for the American People. Donald trump fighting for himself and not to mention on the issue of choice. There was a very clear contrast. Joe biden is clear when the bill comes before him to put back in law the protections of roe v. Wade, he will sign it. What we know about donald trump no matter how much hes trying to distract his hand selected three members of the u. S. Supreme court with the intention they would under the protection of roe and thats what they did. Case after case, state after state, laws design to punish Health Care Providers, texas prison for life for doctors. Women having miscarriages and bleeding out, excuse my language, but i have to be explicit about the facts, because of laws that are denying them Emergency Care because hospitals are afraid they will be criminalized for doing that. All of these bans are trump abortion bans. Hes talking how we wants to send it back to the states. We know what those arguments are about. Joe biden has been clear about where he stands. He is clear but the American People and clear in purpose and i think it came across tonight. The issue of former President Trump lying came to the fore on this issue of choice and Abortion Rights in a pointed way. He kept asserting that if you are proAbortion Rights are one to codify roe or a critic of the decision to overturn roe and have abortion bans, you are a murder and you want to kill infants and people prochoice people want to kill babies after they are born. I sometimes say this is earth two. Its not factually based, but he reiterates it repeatedly. It is not the moderators job to fact check that. Its the other candidates job to fact check. What is your thought strategically in terms of countering a Counter Narrative and lie about Abortion Rights that is so obscene and yet insistently repeated by their side and their candidate . The facts are exactly what are on our side to your point. What theyre talking about is they are attempting to, as they want to do, especially donald trump, create fear based on fiction for the sake of hitting political points. What we know and what he is aware of is what he has done and intended to do is not politically popular with a lot of people in socalled Red States And Blue states and now you see him wavering. When he was president of the United States, he said if a National Abortion ban was sent to his desk, he would sign it. He has said that. As maya angelou said a long time ago, when people tell you who they are, believe them. We know in donald trump comes in if he has a congress that passes a National Abortion ban, he will sign it into law. One of the most fundamental issues of our time. Fundamental. The idea that the government would take the ability of an individuals dash make decisions about their body and replace their good judgment but that of the government, that is what has happened. Three days ago, we commemorated the twoyear anniversary of the dobbs decision. Woman after woman who i have met and traveled with have faced extraordinary experiences of miscarriage, of losing their ability to have children in the future because they did not receive the care they needed because hospitals and Health Care Providers were afraid they would be put in jail for doing the job of caring for these women. I think what trump is doing is grasping for straws. Look, of the two people on the debate stage, only one has the endorsement of his Vice President. Lets not forget that. Lets not forget that. Very awkward and very true. Vice president Kamala Harris its a privilege to have this time with you tonight. Thank you. Good To Be With You guys. Take care. She just became so much more important to this campaign than she was yesterday. What we just heard in her First Response to you was more powerful, clearer, stronger than anything we heard from her running mate tonight and the second response. And so that was the kind of thing people were hoping for from President Biden on the stage tonight. She just delivered it, and the question becomes for the Campaign Starting tomorrow obviously joe biden needs this kind of support. He needs others to be out there more than any other president ial candidate maybe ever has he needs others to be out there doing this Campaign Work shes the one who can get the most attention how do you weave the Vice President s Skills Including her Communication Skills we just saw on blast right there, how do you weave those with a president that doesnt upstage him you cannot worry anymore that old idea of upstaging th historically the most active use of Vice President ial candidates has been as attackers, attackers of the other side. There are some examples, harry truman in 1944 was brought in literally for energy,ro literal to go out there. He was kind ofo an attacker, b he was also this Energy Source that fdr just could not ever deliver as a campaigner. This is a situation where youre just going to have to give her the ball, let her do more of that. Let me add one more thing. If we had said to her when i ask you a question, you have two minutes to respond, and were going to cut your mic at the end of two minutes that would not be as fluid, not as much confidence. That debate stage changes. By the way, currently, the Biden Campaign has been using her that way, its not covered as much. But Vice President harris has been all over this country. She is theis primary voice they use on college campuses. Shes been the voice theyve been using really heavily in the black community. Shes the one theyve been sending out because she is a voice that is younger, that is more approachable for a younger audience. So theyre using her that way anyway. One of the big criticisms of the Biden White House is they kind of hid her for two years and didnt use that her that much and didnt allow her because of this whole issue is she going to upstage President Biden. I think thee reality as her ro as just said it went up so much higher. Its really important they allow her to be herself because she is personable, she is a great communicator and shes the person who cannd reassure folks look, President Biden is a great decision maker. He may not be the most energetic dude in the world, but hes got this e lady whos also making decisions. Theyre makingal decisions together. Shes the partner in the administration as he was to barack obama. They also used her on Abortion Rights. Its also her choice what she goes out there and does. Es i think it took her some time in the first twohe years to figure out what her space and role was, right . What it was going to be. The best partnership they need in terms of what they do publicly is where they have different strengths. Joe biden is clearly not super comfortable talking about Abortion Rights, beyond his Strong Defense of roe. Chris is nodding here. Its clear she is very comfortable. He is very catholic. Hes very catholic. Shes very comfortable. They should have her out on every morning show. I know its midnight, sorry. But they should have her out on every morning show tomorrow, and i think early on not because it wasnt warranted, she was not confident in her ability to do an interview like she just did or go do a round of morning shows. Shes a very strong communicator, and her message on Abortion Rights to joys point is what shes been doing around the country. Can i just say her office should have let us go 20 minutes with her . Come on. Its emblematic, though. Its emblematic of the staffing theyll give you 10 minutes with her when they should give you 30. They need to really start trusting Vice President harris to cut her own path because she does very, very well and the more you get her, the better it is. Thats right. I do think one of the things weve seen around the Roe Second Anniversary Isro her the front person on abortion and doing more events as well. The other thing that happened early on and i think this is key is weve seen her Favorability Rate come up. Part of that has to do with theres a cliche the Vice President gets the lamest assignment. In the beginning she was the person who was the border person, basically like genuinely unsolvable problem. It is so complicated, so difficult, oneic person cant solve it. Having her on abortion means that youre associating her with the issue that is the most 6535 issue that the democrats have. You have her talking about a thing that have people nodding their heads because americans agree on it. And i think weve seen it on the poll on her Favorability Ratings which have increased. Shes talking about issues that are popular. Shes getting out there more, it is having a positive effect. It is also what lawrence was saying about the traditional role of a Vice President is to take it to the opposition and to take apart the opposing candidate. Well, democrats two best issues right now are whats wrong with donald trump and abortion right, and shes an expert on both of those things and very well placed as Vice President to do them. May i just say to those of you who may be watching from the white house right now, we had like to have more opportunity to speak toor Vice President harri and not have it be twoquestion interviews even if my questions for a multipart thing going on. Joining us now from the Debate Spin Room in atlanta is our beloved pal former senator Claire Mccaskill of missouri. Also an msnbc political analyst. Claire, dying to know how you think things went tonight and what youve been hearing ever since. Firstng the easy part donald trump a liar, a flawed character, mean, a jerk, very unlikable, and that was obvious tonight. Now, the hard and heart breaking part. I have been a surrogate for some president ial candidates in my time. I know what is job is after a debate of a surrogate. Ive never wanted to be a surrogate more than i do right now because when youre a surrogate you have to focus on the positives. But i very clearly and very plainly am on this network, and my job now is to be really honest. Joe biden had one thing he had to do tonight, and he didnt do it. He had one thing he had to accomplish, and that was reassure america that he was up to the job at his age. And he failed at that tonight. Now, does that mean that my phone blowing up with senators and Campaign Operatives and donors, big donors from all over the country . Does that mean that joe biden ie not going to be the candidate . I dont know that. I think well know a lot more in a few weeks how this plays out, how the polling plays out. But i think a couple of things are going on right now. I think im not the only one whose heart is breaking right now. Theres a lot of people who watched this tonight and felt terribly for joe biden. And, you know, you have to ask how did we get here . How did we get to the point that were spending a whole lot of time talking about the Vice President tonight a instead of talking about the president . And i dont know how the rest of this story is written. I dont know that things can be done toha fix this. They might, and, you know, trump is so terrible that this might heal itself, but based on what im hearing from a lot of people, and some of them are people that are in high elected offices in this country and you might guess where they serve. E there is a lot more than Hand Wringing tonight. I do feel like people feel like we are confronting a crisis. Claire, i want to talk to you about this in very nuts and bolts terms. Given what you are describing, the kindat of reaction you are describing among people in the kinds of positions youre describing or at least alluding to, what can be done . What do you personally think should be done . Well, i think, listen, this could be a situation where everyone talks it out over the next few i days. I do think this is a time that ted kaufman and rosheti and donlan and ron klain are going to have to have a hearttoheart with the president about his ability to exude strength. Andil listen, nobody is a bigge fan of Kamala Harris than i am. And, you know, Governor Newsom did a remarkable job tonight as a surrogate. And what he said its not i disagree with anything theyre saying, but those two people are signaling to a whole lot of americans that are paying attention how come theyre not running . How come the Democratic Party doesnt have them at the top of the ticket instead of using them to shore up what have become after tonight some pretty glaring weaknesses in our president . But specifically, though, given that we are 130 days out, and the Democratic Convention is very, very late, and President Biden has been confronted with these questions from the very beginning of this campaign, actually before the begin of this campaign. As soon as he was sworn in, people started talking to him about say now that you wont run again, and y hes been firm tha hes the guy. And if hes not going to jump, nobodys going to push him. The type of crisis in your words that youre describing has to have a resolution. And if the resolution is not going to be that President Biden is going to lead the ticket, what else can be what else can be done . What else can be changed about the campaign . Are youbo saying the only solutn is to takeng him off the ticket . No, i dont know, honestly, what the solution is tonight. Iio know how this felt tonight. It felt like a gut punch. To most people in this country who are paying close attention and know how dangerous donald trump is to all the values that we hold dear. And so h i think itll take a couple of days for people to recover from the gut punch, but there will be leaders that have the ability to talk toll the president. I think the president s family would get involved if it actually got to that point. It may be that you can repair this damage. Maybe he can come out and show more vigor and show the ability to really stay on track. But, you know, there were some moments tonight that all of us were holding our breath, and thats not the kind of thing you want to happen 30 days out from an election when youve got donald trump out from the other side of the equation. Senator Claire Mccaskill, keep talking to people, let us know what youre hearing from Democratic Politics and people in high elected office well never ask you the name of. Mush appreciated. Our friend steph ruhle is back. I know youve been talking to people as well. Ive been a talking to democratic lawmakers, former lawmakers, but more than anything lawmakers and theyre upset tonight. Theyre not upset about oh, joe biden didnt do a great job, absolutely not. Theyre frustrated because they said donald trump gave us exactly what donald trump does. He showed up and told lie after lie, and we already knew cnn wasnt going to fact check him. So theyre especially angry where joe bidens team. Theyre very happy with all the Policies Joeh Biden has put foh and made happen over the last 3 1 2 years, but he and his team made that decision to put him in a position where donald trump got up there, told all those lies but it was about performance and he came across vibrant ande strong, and President Bidenan at times was inaudible, at times inarticulate, didnt land a punch, didntti counter punch, u sort of gave donald trump a free show. And so what were hearing tonight out loud is whats been whispered in democratic circles over the last year. Is he up for the job . Yesterday i interviewed wes moore, who i will tell you was asked over and over is joe biden dropping out and would you step in . He said he is not stepping out, i am not stepping in. But wes moore said what the president need to do in the debate is show people the future. He doesnt need to spar with donald trump. But the fact of the matter is he didnt win sparring with donald trump, andt he didnt inspire anyone for a vision for the future, and thats what got the donors i spoke to tonight very frustrated. Concrete point. Oldest president in american history, and polling has shown age is a concern, right . So we all know that. There havekn been partly becaus of those objective facts and neurotic handling nature of the Democratic Coalition theres been allmo these conversations that have waxed and waned on joe biden and hisne status on the ticket. There are two ways for him not to be thear democratic nominee. One he could have not run to begin with. Two, someone could have challenged himo, and beat him a bested him in the primary. No one did that, right . So youre down to one last way, and that is joe biden has to decide hes not going to be running. Unless you have a theory for how that comes to be, were just talking like fantasy football. Yeah. There is one way. Its a little like the old joke about the economist on a Desert Island who needs to open a can ofen beans and theyre like asse the can opener. If you can convince joe biden or whatever, i dont know. But absent that, independent of that, there is no other method. But n that is the question whether or not hes persuadable this. And its okay for people who just wrote him, the guy who just asked all these donors for big, fat check for his campaign, its okay for them tonight to say, joe, you sure you up for this . Im not saying anyones wrong to do it. Im just saying when people talk about the process for it to happen, i want to be very clear that is the one dispositive question that must be answered. There is no mechanism in the real earth one other than that to be o clear. Therefore that makes him the decider, but it do think its worth talking about the inputs that go into that decision and who are the people who are close to him talking about this and what the case he makes not just to the American People but the case he makes in private to his closest advisers who are going to be making potentially the opposite argument to him tonight. Not only that, but, yes, there is one way hed have to withdraw on his own. But the democrats are already looking at a convention in chicago that they would very much not likein to be a 1969ste convention. They are potentially facing significant protests over gaza. Joe bidens policies are not likely to change that much between now and then, and the death toll is likely to skyrocket between now and then. Then theyre also facing these doubts, and there are already more than 700 uncommitted delegates going into that convention. They have not committed to joe biden. That is seven times more uncommitted delegates than donald trump has, and donald trump was not able to completely defeat nikki haley. And so theyre going to go into that tconvention with, yes, jo biden is at this point hes the nominee, but there are all of these x factors that they do thinking about to the Pointth Stephanie is making because what if delegates one of the texts i got tonight was from a delegate who said this is the substances of their text. We delegates may have to take things into our own hands. There has to be an alternate candidate. There has to be a person who embodies the other option. The obvious is the Vice President , but theres a lot of question and t doubt in people minds whether this country would ever elect a black woman president or a black president period after the Hillary Clinton thing. This is live t shot. Is this live right now . This is live shot right now. This is President Biden at a waffle house in atlanta. Thatsou the right place to after midnight. I was just going to say, a, always open. B, picture menus. By the way, he doesnt have to do what trump does, which is to clear the space, rent it out, and then bring in ben carson and other black republicans from other states to come and hang out withco him. He can actually just walk into a waffle house like President Obama used to. Thats the difference between being joe biden who people understand is not super hostile to black people and to normal people and regular people and being donald. Can i just ask, do we have any audio here . I think we did well. Do you have any concerns about your performance . No. The New York Times pointed out heti lied 26 times, big lies. Great job. Great job. Louisiana. Lake providence, louisiana. The waffle house was crowded already when he got there, but this is obviously a tight fit for the president. You see the cameras now giving us a nice shot of the Fluorescent Lights there. That was live, which is why we were checking to see if we could hear President Biden to see if he was asked any questions. He was asked about his performance at the debate tonight, and he said its hard to debate a liar. I will say inaudible and audible. Couldnt hear through the crowd. He went into to knowing thats exactly what he was doing. I just wanted to note donald trump also did an event in atlanta, in alpharetta, well he phoned into a barbershop. Theed imported black surrogates came into michigan and florida, Byron Donalds and friends, theyre like a traveling road show of his black fans. They rented out a barbershop. There were like six of them sitting in barber chairs, and rather thanr just respect thos voters enough to show up, because theyre like the six out of towners, he just phoned in. So he did something also. Ari, i want to hear your take how things went tonight. Its nice to see a waffle house. Look, joe biden lost the debate and the larger question is whether hed lost the room, ande may not have lost the room. People have lost debates before and come back, and in the days and weeks ahead if the party has its reaction and then moves forward, so be it. If, however, he lost the room and we were talking about this before why debates matter, and this is an example why debates matter. If he lost the room and those people who are part of the Democratic Coalition and part of the socalled base were soft to begin arwith, this was their ma concern is he up to it . And they now dont think he is, he lost that part of the room are and some of the General Election room, then tonight may be one of the most pivotal moments in this campaign. We also know that the people closest to joe biden see him the most. S they see him more than all of us in the various ways that we see him, so they had some idea on his worst day maybe it was bad luck, but on his worst day he might come across more like this thanro on his best day lik State Of The Union. Knowing that, these people who have been around politics a long time, barrelled forward with this baplan, which means they either thought the trajectory was bad enough they were too closegh to comfort on losing or they thought the age issue, the can you do the job issue, whatever you want to call it, both are elderly candidates, both are over retirement age. Donald trump has an entire problem well discuss again, but they thought that issue was holding back. It seems measurably bad for the Biden Campaign that those people knew the risk and went in, and they went in and got one of the more negative case outcomes of this, and now everyones going to live through it. The last thing ill say about the delegate piece is someone ie the Democratic Party put it this way to me tonight. The only way joe biden would ever exit would be a decision that he makes. As you mention, rachel, there are inputs and pressure on that, family, top aides, barack obama. You can muse on that and then you get out more to fantasy football, but there is not a mechanism within theis party or under theth rules or under stat laws that use the Democratic Party delegates system, which is mostly resolved in the states to force that. So those people who brought him here because they thought this would help, i think it is observable that that strategy did not work tonight. There could be a future debate if they both do it. Theres no sacrosanct about the current debate s schedule. Biden could argue they should have even more debates go around Theeb Country and play it back d prove it back up if it was an unusually bad note. This is voters response more than commentary response, too. The Voter Focus Group We Saw Tonight in phoenix was the most positive response the Biden Campaign has seen all night, and that was from real people. Were going to take a quick break. Much more still to come tonight as we continue to digest and analyze this first president ial debate of 2024, and as our stomachas juices start preemptively thinking about digesting waffle house, which weve all now been primed for. Do they deliver here . Right here on msnbc, well be right back. Re right here on msnbc, well be right back there is no one scorecard for determining who won or who lost last night, but a consensus does seem to be ameurg, ross purow, the star of the tonight partly because no one knew what to expect. Bill clinton, just good enough. And president bush, hell have to do much better. It was october 1992. George h. W. Bush. Poppy bush was president , running for reelection, and at the first president ial debate that year he absolutely bombed. If that tom brokaw standup was not enough to convince you, check out the Boston Herald the next day, bush strikes out. A snap vote taken was in the teens, was 18 . That first debate went very terribly for papi bush. But look at the rest of the data, the first debate went terribly for papi bushs son, in 2004 running for reelection against john kerry. Reviews for his Debate Performance were just as brutal than the ones for his dad. Quote, that was george bushs worst performance in a debate by far ever. My mantra had been neither bush nor kerry had ever lost a debate. That is no longer true. George bushs Approval Rating a week before thadebate was as high as 54 . After his terrible performance in that first debate, it dropped 7 points just from that one debate, but of course he went onto win reelection anyway in 2004. Then there was what happened to President Obama in 2012, again looking for a second term, running for reelection up against his opponent, mitt romney. The a disaster for the cumbent president. The headlines were unanimous, Obama Snoozes and loses. Mitt romney comes out on top as obama stumbles in first debate. Obama had a 9point lead in the polls since September 2012 after his terrible performance in october, he ended up with tied with romney in the polls, but then obama won election in november and got a second term. Regardless of the eventual electoral outcome, it is almost an axiom of politics that first debates are rockery for incumbent president s. Why is that . What is it about being an incumbent president that makes you suck at your first debate when youre running for reelection . I dont know. Lots of competing explanations out there, but it does seem to be something that universally holds. I will also mention trump was no exception. When he was the incumbent four years ago, not that long ago. I think this headline at the guardian sums it up well. This was after the first debate with donald trump as the incumbent and joe biden as the challenger, quote. Donald trump ensures first president ial debate is national humiliation. Its always the case, and tonight joe biden was the ninth incumbent president in a televised General Election debate. He and his team very, very, very much wanted to defy the debating incumbent curse. They did not defy the debating incumbent curse. That said, losing the first debate is not a fatal thing for incumbent president s. It is a historical certainty that they lose the first debate, but in terms of its overall electoral impact, history says neh. Joining us now is former Republican Party chairman, the cohost of the weekend here on msnbc, our beloved Michael Steelech mr. Steele, it is great to see you. How are you doing, my friend . What a night, everybody rested and raring to go, right . We are hydrated. We did our weird yoga poses that make our backs hurt less when we sit here at six hours at a time. Were great. What did you think of the debate, and what did you think of tonight from the people who saw it . So i have thoughts, and ill start with where you left off. Everything you said about those other president ial debates are absolutely 100 correct. But what you did not have after them was the incumbent president s party openly musing about taking him off the ticket, and i think that is something that is very different in this one. Tonight you have maga gloating and democrats outwardly worrying about the state of the race to the point that they are not hiding their discussions about how they get joe off the ticket. I think a lot of that is unfortunate. I think a lot of that is overblown at the moment, but i get the emotion. I thought claire was an exhibit of that emotion, of that gut punch that she referenced that a lot of democrats are feeling. But here are a couple of things that i i think need to be focused on just sort of putting my Campaign Party hat on and sort of rally the troops and get your ass in gear conversation. One is nicolle said it best, own tonight. Dont pretend its something it wasnt. Sit down with joe, play that tape. Play it, and slowmo that sucker if you have to, to get him to appreciate exactly what it was we saw and how he performed, and how in many respects he let himself down. Because if any of us know the president and a lot of us have seen him over these many, many years we know how much he regards being honest about that, so let him be honest about that and have that assessment, and take him out of situations where hes seemingly lying about his performance. He will endear himself. He will move people to appreciate a lot of things about him if he owns the moment. I thought, for example, lawrence was also very clear in how this thing needs to get laid out. Again, you know, dont overthink what happened. Rethink how you move forward. Reimagine what tomorrow looks like, and by tomorrow i mean morning joe tomorrow, all right . And really begin to put in place the next set of Building Blocks because right now magas on the run. They got this baby. You should see and hear the stuff thats coming up, right . They are they are primed. Theyre ready. Theyre like we told you this is what he was. Joe biden is old and outofdate, donald trump is the man. But donald trump is a serial liar. Hes a petulant little boy in an orange suit and he sits here day after day. Jen psaki he was not prepared, and i was on morning joe and said joe biden would be the nominee of the Democratic Party because joe biden is his best when his or her joe biden, and they forgot that. His Campaign Forgot that. They put that cocoon around him as president , and they backed him up with all these facts and numbers, and the man got lost. So there are some things recoverable here, but they have to first start to own the moment. And you dont really kind of do that by pushing the Vice President out there. I think the president at some point has to look america in the eye and go im sorry i let you down, i should have been better prepared, and you know me better than that, you know . And thats not how my parents raised me, and thats not how im going to lead you. And i think that moment sort of takes what happened with donald trump because guess what then, rachel . All of a sudden all the stuff were not talking about we heard and saw with donald trump kind of comes back in refocus, begins to be people look at and go, yeah, now that i think about donald trump said some crazy behind stuff, right . I think this is democrats need to bring it down, stop the oh, let me tell you what im hearing from operatives and others and just reset. Michael steele, tough love. We always get tough love from you, michael. Thank you so much. Our friend alex wagner joins us right now. Shes in atlanta at the site of the debate from the rapidly emptying spin room or still full spin room . Yes, very much empty. Rapidly emptying. The people we can see behind werent in focus either then or now, but it looked like the people who were behind you before were standing. Now it looks like theyre all lying down. Thats the debate in a nutshell right there, rachel. And theres not even pizza. I know you have pizza at 30 rock. Theres no pizza here. You know whats here . Matt gaetz and Steven Miller. Thats who i was talking to earlier. You cannot imagine have you seen the i believe in the dictionary when you look up shoddenfreud, its a picture of Steven Miller and matt gaetz after this debate. What did they tell you in. Matt gaetz offered thoughts and prayers and something all that is left of joe biden now is his dental records. Obviously matt gaetz is prone to hyperbole, and Steven Miller said donald trump did no prep for tonights performance, not even a policy refresher. He was just speaking from the pure id of donald trump and he brought the country with him. Obviously this is night theyre very happy with. Joe bidens difficulties are their highlight reel, but i spoke to j. D. Vance as well who spoke briefly, you know, about donald trump what he believes stellar performance. And i also spoke to marco rubio who is waiting to get the call he is Donald Trumps Vice President ial picks, but otherwise i have their thoughts on tape. Lets listen. Did you have more money in your pocket, was the country safer, the world more stable, and i think tonight trump took an enormous step in the direction of convincing people. Well see what the polls show, but i believe he took huge steps in the direction of convincing people and reminding people things were better off when he was president. I dont think we can ignore the president s performance. I do think its harmful to the candidates and potentially harmful to the country. Adversaries are going to watch it and confirms what they already suspected about him. My core take away from tonight is i think President Trump did an excellent Job Outlining why things were better when he was president and how things have gotten worse since he hasnt been. Ive got to say, rachel, this is a line from republicans how good a job trump did. And i did press review about what specifically he thought was so good about trumps performance because i watched the same thing he did and didnt see any grand Policy Articulation or vision for the future. Not even a project 2025 vision. I think theyre largely resting on the laurels of if you can rest on the laurels of someone elses poor performance, and thats whats got them feeling good. But in terms of trump being you know, inviserating biden, im not sure you really saw that. I dont think there was anything memorable and positive from donald trump this evening. I think there were some memorable negative i think the line i didnt sleep with a porn star was an indelible moment. And i did ask Steven Miller about that. I said are you winning or are you losing when you have to say you didnt sleep with a porn star, you didnt have sex with a porn star. And Steven Miller said its the medias fault for focusing on that. I said i didnt say that, your guy did. He then went on a tirade about the media. Perhaps well treat you to that tape tomorrow night at 9 00 p. M. Or perhaps well save you from it. Also there was a lot of there was a litany of stuff that President Biden had presented to former President Trump in terms of like youve got to pay close to A Billion Dollars with your civil liefbt liability for molesting that lidy and for your sex with the porn star and for the lies and the fraud. And the only one he chose to rebut is the one we just had 7 1 2 hours of very, very granular detail, testimony under oath in a Criminal Courtroom about the fact that it did happen. So that is just not a great yes. Pick one of the more obscure ones, not the one just proven before a jury, so that was hard. Rachel, rachel, we know about newspaper spanking, and im sorry to bring it back up, but thats the level of granular detail we know about in terms of Donald Trumps shall we say dalliances with Stormy Daniels. Thats where were at as a country. But its a very astute pint youre making about the performance concerns about President Biden in terms of being very softspoken, at times inaudible, having halting speech and taking a very long time to get warmed up where his answers were punchy and to the point. They want to make up the story of the debate, and for many people that will be the story of the indebate. But if there is an indelible line, it is the Stormy Daniels line from the debate. And i think the one indelible moment in terms of something said by either candidate the weird thing about donald trump criticizing joe bidens golf swing and bragging about winning Golf Tournaments when he was asked about child care. I mean, we had a debate we had a Debate Focus Group in phoenix, and that was the first thing the first person told us they thought was ridiculous about this debate was the pivoting about the golf when they were asked about substantive things. So i do think there is it sort of feels theres a tale here of the consequence of Donald Trumps performance tonight in addition to that by President Biden. Yeah. And certainly theres going to be more parsing of that performance in the hours and days ahead. So, you know, perhaps that changes the overall dynamic of it, perhaps it doesnt, but it hasnt happened yet. Alex wagner in the Debate Spin Room tonight, i wish you pizza and waffle house if you can get there. Thank you, my friend. Weve got much more ahead here tonight in our special coverage of the first president ial debate. Simone sanders has been talking with people inside Democratic Politics. Shes going to be talking with us what shes hearing, her first reaction to tonights debate. Shes been, of course, a key person in the obamaharris universe, has key insights for us. Simone will be with us after this. Stay with us. Mone will be with r this stay with us when were young, were told anything is possible. But only a few of us go out and prove it. Witness the greatness of anna hall on a connection worthy of gold xfinity mobile. Only xfinity gives you the most powerful mobile wifi network, with speeds up to a gig in millions of locations. And right now, xfinity internet customers can buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. Get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity. [narrator] life with ear ringing sounded like a constant Train Whistle i couldnt escape. Then i started taking lipo flavonoid. With 60 years of clinical experience, its the number one doctor recommended brand for ear ringing. And now im finally free. Take back control with lipo flavonoid. Were back with our coverage of the first president ial debate. The great Simone Sanders worked on the last Biden Campaign. Now shes cohost of the weekend here on msnbc. Im dying to know what you thought and what youve been hearing ever since. Ill tell you what i thought. My thought is the same as everyone else on this panel the debate did not go well. It was not terrible for joe biden, but there were moments where he missed the mark to come back on donald trump on abortion, again to fact check. The moderators were not there fact checking. I think they had also been clear thats not what they were going to do, and so he had to be prepared to do that part. He did progressively i think got better throughout the rest of the night, but debates are part performance, part content part substance. You practice both in debate prep, and he fell short of that. Donald trump on performance, he absolutely hit his marks on performancech and hiing the marks on performance i think are overshadowed by the craziness of the substance. He said some really crazy things. What are the black jobs . Abortion after three days thats something the president of the Heritage Foundation said that when he was on our show. Again, women are not aborting children three days after theyre born. Thats called murder. Exactly. Its literally impossible. Thats also not happening. Women are also not deciding at nine months, i dont want this baby anymore and get an abortion. Thats factually not true and joe biden needed to say that. Because Donald Trumps performance and his tone was more like the second debate he and joe biden had in nashville in 2020 and not like this first debate, right . That second debate this is the donald trump We Saw Tonight. What democrats are saying in the first commercial break i got a number of phone calls from some members of congress who said they want to hear the president talk about the future. They were disappointed about his performance. They wanted to hear him talk about the future. They were not hearing that. This is not the joe biden they thought would show up. Now its my understanding members have called meetings. Because front line members are concerned. We talk about the president ial election, but its not just the president. Every Single Member of congress is up for election. Democrats have an opportunity to take back the house. The math is in favor for Hakeem Jeffries to be the next speaker, and this is a scenario actually where members of congress, house members especially, some members of the senate like kasie in pennsylvania are running ahead of the president in state polls. Front line members of the house its my understanding theyve had a little conversation because theyre like what we going to do, the new dems have had a conversation in policy. Theyve had conversations how they want to position themselves theyll be at home this summer in their districts and what theyre going to do this fall. What does that mean . Are they talking about running away from the president. Not running away from the president , but many of them are running ahead of the president , and some front line membervise seen their numbers shrink. Its my understanding some want to weigh in on the messaging. These House Democrats specifically have said theyve got to talk about the future. All this talk about what you did, yes, did a lot, absolutely. But there are four months until election day, less than that until people start voting, and instead you have to make a decision in campaigns about where youre going to spend your time. Do you want to convince people what you did was right, or do you want to meet them where you are . So the reaction youre hearing when you say front line you mean democrats running in tough districts. Theres a member called front line members, and from the Democratic Congressional campaign. And they want the response to tonight to be to shift the messaging and the focus of the Biden Campaign so that it is more about forward looking well, i heard a couple things, but, yes first and foremost, they want it future looking from the beginning. They felt they didnt get as much of that. The Campaign People when i asked them about that they said the president was very future focused towards the end of the debate tonight, and i was like fair enough, absolutely. He did warm up. I guess the last point i want to make is this, yes, there are some democrats out there who say, i dont know if joe biden should stay on the ticket. Yes, i have heard that as well. I think everybody here has heard that sentiment. That was very different and i appreciated chris point about the nuance here, very different than saying there are people in the president s orbit asking him to drop out. That has not happened, unless we have some credible reporting somewhere that says the president s family, someone the top people of the campaign, the Vice President was like, you know what, were going oo have to talk to him. Those are two different things. Theres the reality how people are feeling and the reality of the situation. Let me ask all of you in terms of everyone hearing people in politics and talking to people tonight, has anybody heard what simone is saying theres someone close to the president and a position to influence him. Its very clear hell be the nominee. And theres so little time for this. The Rnc Convention is next month. The dnc is the following month, and i think if you want to be a little psychological about it, people are so unhappy with the debate that what theyre saying is how they feel, and theyre saying i feel so unhappy i wish i had other choices, which is not that different from saying i feel like i wish joe biden was 20 years younger. Thats different than saying are you going to give him a cereal to take off 20 years . I was like what are they talking about . We dont use that word anymore, thats what i was thinking. You have been watching msnbcs coverage of the first president ial debate. Told you it would be the longest 90 minutes of your life. The headlines may say trump won, biden lost, but what happens from here, what history belongs to the voters. That does it for us. Thank you very much for watching. That does it for us. Thank you very much for watching ah, these bills are crazy. She has no idea shes sitting on a goldmine. 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