Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240703

This breathtaking glow again bringing so many of us together, making our massive planet feel simultaneously more magical and yet interconnected than ever before. Liz kreutz, nbc news. I want to thank Stephanie Ruhle for allowing me to sit in her seat as well as her amazing staff for making my job easy tonight. Thats going to do it for me. Im Charles Coleman jr. And i want to thank you as well, and on that note, i wish you a very, very good night. Ood nigh. F0 the people of new york call Michael Cohen, tonight the Michael Cohen testimony begins. The guy we saw this morning was credible and calm if not a little freaked out. And trumps former fixer testifies that the candidate himself led the conspiracy. The most significant line was just take care of it. Just take care of it. This is a total disaster, women will hate me. The most important thing that the jury heard today. It wasnt thinking about melania, this was all about the candidate. We go over the testimony, plus nicole wallace, chris haden, and katherine christian. As special coverage of trump on trial begins, now. Good evening and thanks for joining us for our msnbc trump trial. And im here with my panel, big night you guys. Todays proceedings unexpectedly to me. Were like that helpful moment in the old Agatha Christie style. You have been following along, you flow who the characters are. At least you can remember most of their names. You know the basic plot of the mystery but then theres this kindness. This great helpful moment in the story where the detective sits down under some stupid pretense with some other character and in their conversation, they give you all the answers. Its okay you havent been paying close attention all along. They in this conversation are going to recap The Whole Story and not only will they get to the big answer, the big who done it. They will also give you the solutions to all the other little mysteries and red herrings that popped up over the course of the story. That was michael Agatha Christie cohen today. So, for example. Why did Michael Cohen make the Hush Money Payments to Stormy Daniels from his Home Equity Line of credit . Rather than from i dont know, his bank account . Aah, we learned today its because that account was paper less. No statements related to that Home Equity Line of credit were going to be mailed to his house. To Michael Cohen house was never going to see some inexplicable 130,000 on a statement and question him what hes up to. Now we know. Why when the reimbursement was made for Michael Cohen paying for Stormy Daniels hush money. Why did that include not just the Stormy Daniels reimbursement but a bunch of money for a bunch of other things . Well, we learned today, that this was going to be the last money Michael Cohen ever received from the Trump Organization. In these payments they included everything he was owed. They were zeroing him out. He was leaving the company and why was he doing that . Because, if Michael Cohen was still a Trump Organization employee like he had been. It wouldnt make sense for him to be getting checks as a retainer for Legal Services. He would just be getting a salary like he had been for years before. So instead, cohen leaves the Trump Organization, becomes the personal attorney to the president. Which makes the legal retainer checks look like that was how trump was paying for cohens services as his personal attorney. In reality, cohen was never paid anything for being personal attorney to the president. Thats just what they called it. Thats just what they called him so it wouldnt look so weird that trump was paying him 35,000 checks every month. Oh, now that makes sense. Also, why do prosecutors go out of their way to point out that Ben Roethlisberger the former Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback had been at the golf event with donald trump at the time of the trump Stormy Daniels alleged Sexual Encounter. Now we know. Contrary to trumps denials that he had sex with Stormy Daniels, Michael Cohen testified today that when he asked donald trump if anything had happened between him and Stormy Daniels, trump bragged to Michael Cohen that yeah. Even though he was there at this golf event with big Ben Roethlisberger, the women there, like Stormy Daniels they wanted him more than they wanted big ben. All the little mysteries that have popped up over the course of us learning about the scandal, all the little mysteries that have popped up or inexplicable side bars and detours that we didnt necessarily understand as the prosecution has laid out its case thus far. Michael cohen today provided the all is revealed scene in this detective story. Tying up the lose ends, filling in the gaps in this story. And yes bringing us to the main event. The big who done it. Michael cohen, long time lawyer, enforcer, bully, Quote Unquote Fixer for former president don donald trump. The man who was not so much the hit man as he was the under boss. The man who testified today about for example telling suppliers and contractors and vendors to Trump University that they would get 20 of what they invoiced Trump University for or they would get nothing and they would like it. Michael cohen gave Testimony Today that donald trump was, in the room where it happened. In the worse possible way. The one piece of paper that has emerged in this case that is the most important piece of paper of all is this one. This document, peoples exhibit 35 is the Smoking Gun Document in this first ever criminal trial of an american president. It is a Bank Statement showing the Wire Transfer of 130,000 to the representative for Stormy Daniels. Its the Bank Record Showing that the transfer was made. You see what we know now as Michael Cohens handwriting showing Something Else he wants to be reimbursed for. Since we now understand hes leaving the Trump Organization at this point he wants to make sure in this last payment thats coming to him, this other money the Trump Organization owes him is going to be included. Thats on the bottom right side of this piece of paper. On the bottom left side of this piece of paper, you see different handwriting. This is handwriting from the Trump Organization cfo wiselberg and its him doing the math. This is how much Michael Cohen is owed. Since were going to lie and say this is income for him instead of the reimbursement that it actually is. That means hes going to have to pay taxes on it. So, heres how much well add to what were paying him to account for the taxes hes going to have to pay. Heres the add additional bonus line because he said he was owed money on his annual bonus and he wont get another one because hes leaving the organization. Heres the 12 months, 35,000 a month. Thats Allen Eisenburg doing the math. That document, peoples exhibit 35 what prosecutors have laid out is thats the smoking gun that shows the crime was done. In the Business Records of the Trump Organization. It was disguised as Something Else in order to conceal its true nature because its true nature was that it was a campaign expenditure. Thats the prosecutions case. That document shows the crime. And we have seen this document before in this trial. But today Michael Cohen testified for the first time that trump was there for it. That he, Michael Cohen, and eisenburg talked it over, during which time they made the notes on that piece of paper. Thats why theres two sets of writings after the two of them marked up that piece of paper the way i just described they then took that piece of paper and marched it down to Donald Trumps office on the 26th floor of trump tower and with that paper in hand. The three of them had a discussion about what exactly they were doing and why they were doing it and he said, do it. Prosecutor, following the meeting with mr. Eisenburg and both of you adding that handwriting. Where did you go answer, we went to mr. Trumps office in order to speak to him about this. Question, where was this approximately. Answer, right before mr. Trump left for the inauguration. Question, so you were still at trump tower, answer yes. What do you think he was involved in. Answer, being president elect. Question was he at meetings at trump tower, answer yes, during the Conversation Allen turned around and said to me, while we were talking about this it was and what were going to do is were going to pay you over 12 months. I think the indication here from the transcript is that cohen answered and rebutted that. It was probably better if i get it in one lump sum. No, no, no. Why dont you do it as over12 months and it will be paid out to you monthly. Question, and did he say anything about how it would be paid out as something . Answer, yeah as a Legal Service rendered since i was then being given the title as personal attorney to the president. And is this conversation in mr. Trumps office with mr. Trump. Answer, yes. Question, and did mr. Weiselberg have with him this document, peoples exhibit 35, answer he did. Question, and did he show this document to mr. Trump, answer yes. Question, and did mr. Weiselberg say in front of mr. Trump how much you would be paid in total, answer e it was going to be divided by 12 and it would be 35,000 a month and they would start making the payment in february not january because there was a lot going on with mr. Trumps moving to the white house. Question, and what if anything did mr. Trump say at the time . Answer, he approved it. And he also said, this is going to be one heck of a ride in dc. Question, and did mr. Weiselberg say in front of mr. Trump that those Monthly Payments would be you know like a retainer for Legal Services, answer yes. Question you mentioned something before but i just wanted to question you about it. Did you Say Something to the effect that you had a sense they had spoken about this previously. Answer, yes. Why do you say that . Because they always played that Game Of Frick And Frack game. I had been around long enough to know that this conversation had already happened before. And your honor objection to that answer and move to strike. The judge overruled, overruled. Question, and when Allen Weisenberg laid out the plan of how much you were going to be paid and over what months and showed mr. Trump this document did mr. Trump try to renegotiate. Answer, no. So he approved it at that point. Answer, yes. Now at some point did mr. Trump confirm to you he was going to give you the title of personal attorney or personal counsel to the president. When around the meeting was that . Around this same exact time. Was the 420,000 that you were going to receive back from mr. Trump going to be payment for future Legal Services as personal counsel . Answer, that was what it was designed to be. But what was it actually . Answer, reimbursement of my money. Question, it was repayment of which money . It was a repayment of the Stormy Daniels payment. Question, you said you believe this occurred in trump tower days before mr. Trump left for washington, answer correct. Did mr. Weiselberg have peoples exhibit 35. He did. Did he show it to mr. Trump. Yes he did. And trump said that days before leaving to washington, d. C. , he talked in detail about the crime with his cfo and with Michael Cohen and he said, quote, do it. Quote he approved it. So if theres anything in this case that isnt just black letter proven. If theres anything else that we have been waiting for in testimony from witnesses, this is probably it, right. Certainly wasnt all. Theres a lot to say about what happened today. But lets start there. Lawrence odonnell you were there today. Yeah and the one other bit that we got that is sequential and important is donald trump at the time in october of 2016, the final days the president campaigned, directing Michael Cohen to make the payment to Stormy Daniels. He said he directed me to do it. We remember in Michael Cohens federal indictment for this everything he did was at the direction of. Yes. Individual one who turns out to be donald trump. So you have both pieces here. You have, you have in todays testimony Michael Cohen saying he directed me to do this to pay Stormy Daniels then you have the pay back which occurs after the election. The agreement to the pay back. I have to say, rachel, you know we were sitting there as this testimony was coming out and weve all seen the document already. Michael cohen was able to confirm thats my handwriting on that other side of the page which technically on the record had never been confirmed. The previous testimony, identified weiselbergs Handwriting Saying ive been reading his handwriting for 35 years. Thats how that testimony got in. And Michael Cohen said, i can identify that as eiselbergs handwriting because i saw him write it. Which is as good as Handwriting Identity gets. And what we didnt know is that they were going to walk it down the hall. Walk it down the hall. And we were going to be in Donald Trumps office. Michael cohen was telling us what donald trump said about this and how he approved it and it was all there. Thats how the final elements of what become the criminal charges all get put together is in that room. Katy, you were there. It was elegant because the prosecution had done such an effective job of getting evidence entered in to the record. Because remember if its not in the record it cant be used. So to lawrences point, we saw this exhibit before. It has import through Jeff Mcconney the former controller of the Trump Organization but to have the nuance added from Michael Cohens testimony is what good Trial Lawyers do. You saw a well executed plan from the manhattan d. A. S office to allow the introduction of certain cell phone records, text messages, emails, Bank Statements, it all was the corroborating evidence that allowed Michael Cohen to stand on his own on his own testimony and not have to worry that there was nothing underneath him in terms of the foundation to be able to talk about what happened because his credibility as we know has been an issue. But we also didnt hear, we heard very few objections today. That was interesting. No side bars, for incredibly aggressive defense weve seen. No objections, so what was the import of that. It was a free flowing, well paced, clean sychinct direct examination today. Michael cohen was able to testify the way they wanted him to do. There were three of them feverishly taking notes and listening. The visual display on the screen in addition to when the audio tape was played of the famous i secretly recorded donald trump thing accompanied by the transcript. It is so effective because jurors just sit and they sit as we do, and then they see something and they feel the engagement. So when they go into the jury room to negotiate, peoples 35 is something theyll tangibly have. It matches with the consultants with the 35, the gross up. Everything fits. Then today they left to recess today and the last thing they heard was donald trump participating in the conspiracy. Does it matter they dont have weiselberg testifying. Weiselberg is sitting in reichers right now. Does it matter that he is not testifying that yes i was there with Michael Cohen. And speculating that we had talked about that before. Does it matter. No speculation from the defense when they asked Michael Cohen. Number three, go ahead defense. Bring in convicted Perjurer Eisenberg and why dont you have donald trump take the stand and explain what he really meant. If you bring anybody up, it stays as the evidence. Nicole. I think the other part that was as Black And White is that the motive is clearly established. I think he was the 17th witness. Not one person has told a different story other than the compressed period between the develop of Access Hollywood and election day is the Pressure Cooker that the candidate and campaign feel to pay the 130,000. We have all this, longer time line and the longer arch from the catch and kill, the doorman and mcdougal. Back in 2011 he was talking to the boss about running for president. An the one thing the former president said was theres going to be a lot of women coming out of the wood works. There were a lot of women that came out and claimed infidelity. He was never a rogue actor of handling infidelity. He was always working with others. He was the first person to tell the story of how middle manager cohen was. Theyre the strategists of catch and kill. Cohen is the person who makes it happen. Hes with his banker. Hes trying to track down trump on the plane. But the conspirators is another sort of indisputed fact. Theres no counter of the explanation. That explains what happened here. I thought today as i was listening, reading this testimony of john boltons line about Rudy Giuliani about the First Organization that i want nothing to do with this drug deal theyre cooking up over there. His lawyer senses like, that stuff is not above board whats happening over there. And everything being described here is so clearly not above board. Theres so much effort being done to do wrong here. When it comes to cohen putting trump in the room i think the question you have to ask yourself is that, is it believable testimony . And the other thing i thought about again today which i thought all the way is, trump is paying a Crime Penalty. Because it is recorded as income it is grossed up to double what it should be that he is going to pay this cheap dude is going to pay the Crime Penalty to hide the income. And do you think 130,000 payment which we know this guy has in his head hes going to look at a 420,000 statement and Michael Cohen is going to say, yeah close enough. No someone has to walk through those numbers. If someone comes to you and says, i redid the dirt. Its not 130, its 420. Theres no way youre saying yes to that. Even a nondonald trump is saying yes to that but certainly not donald trump is saying yes. That actually is the closest thing weve had as a to a Counter Narrative from them, right. The Counter Narrative is, rich people and celebrities, men, were always paying hush money. Its no crime. That has been the Counter Narrative. Youre paying 2x. That would mean paying 420,000. Or saying he got fired for a day or two that he didnt haggle down the bills. When cohen says about trump, did he try to renegotiate this once you were in the room and youre actually getting the final agreement that hes going to pay. Did he try to renegotiate. One word answer. No. And its because weiselberg has had the key premeeting. The premeeting is. Youre not going to like this number but heres why it has to be this number. Yes, all right. Michael cohen is a witness for the prosecution in this criminal case against former president donald trump. Today what they started is what is called their direct examination of cohen. It means prosecutors firing questions at their own witness. That will continue into tomorrow if not beyond. But then the crossexamination of Michael Cohen will begin. Thats when trumps Defense Lawyers will get to question cohen. Some legal observers suggesting today, that that expected Cross Examination of Michael Cohen which is now looming, that effectively might be the entirety of trumps defense. The defense is under no obligation to bring any witnesses to the Stand Including Trump himself. They may not try to mount any witnesses, any defense at all other than what they are going to do to Michael Cohen in trying to score points off of him in cross exam. How is it looking that might go for them now that were seeing Michael Cohen on the stand . We have more on that. And much more ahead on all of this including why Divorce Lawyers all over the country had their ears turn red today. Well be right back with our recap of todays proceedings in the first ever criminal trial of an american president. Stay with us. Ill be there. You dont. You dont have to worry. Limu emu. And doug. bell ringing limu, someone needs to customize and save hundreds on Car Insurance with liberty mutual. Lets fly Inaudible Sounds chief doug. Inaudible Sounds ooooo ah. Elevator Doors Opening Inaudible Sounds i thought you were right behind me. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. A mystery jessie loves playing detective. But the real mystery was her irritated skin. So, we switched to tide free gentle. It cleans better, and doesnt leave behind irritating residues. And its gentle on her skin. Tide free and gentle liquid is epa safer choice certified. Its gotta be tide. You know, i spend a lot of time thinking about dirt. At three in the morning. Any time of the day. What people dont know is that not all dirt is the same. You need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. Look at this new organic soil from miraclegro. Everybody should have it. It worked great for us. This is as good as gold in any garden. If people only knew that it really is about the dirt. Youre a dirt nerd. Huge dirt nerd. Im proud of it [ryan laughs] they say we should stop eating so much meat. So we made meat out of plants. Because we arent quitters. Impossible. Were solving the meat problem with more meat. Sure, im a paid actor, and this is not a real company, but there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. Search talent All Over The World with over 10,000 skills you may not have in house. More than 30 of the fortune 500 use upwork because this is how we work now. Testimony today from Michael Cohen putting donald trump in the room where cohen says they spelled out the details of the alleged crime. They spelled out this ruse of covers up the stormy payments for cohen to acollude the fact that what they were doing is making a payment. That document was brought into the office of trump and he approved it. Describing the math behind this crime. It was hardly the only moment that will stick with folks for Michael Cohens first day on the stand. Asked if it was an amovement other than to influence the campaign. Whether there was a narrative that described the hush money was being paid for any other reason other than to the campaign. Michael cohen gave brand new testimony about that today. That if nothing else will presumably warm the cockles of Divorce Lawyers hearts some where. Prosecutor after you learned from Dillan Howard and Keith Davidson about the Stormy Daniels story and her wants to write that story and purchase that story. Did you speak to mr. Trump. Michael cohen. I did. Was this also a serious matter at this time. A very serious matter. Question, did you tell him what you had heard from Dillan Howard and Keith Davidson, answer, yes. Question what was his reaction. Answer, he was really angry with me. I thought you had this under control. I thought you took care of this. And he expressed to me, there is a previous denial meaning we have previously been able to work with Stormy Daniels to deny that any Sexual Encounter took place when this first arose in 2011. Quote, there is a previous denial, just take care of it. Cohen says, there was a lot going on the campaign at the time. He said just take care of it. Did he say anything to you at the time of how this would be viewed if it got out. Answer, yes. What did he say. He said to me this is a disaster. Total disaster. Women are going to hate me. Because this, this is really a disaster. Women will hate me. Guys may think its cool but this is going to be a disaster for the campaign. Question what did you understand him to mean by women will hate this. What was his concern . Trump Defense Lawyer mr. Blanch, objection. The judge overruled. Cohen, so at the time mr. Trump was pulling very, very poorly with women. And this coupled with the previous access Hollywood Tape he just stated this is a disaster. Get control over it. Question, did you have any conversation, additional conversation with mr. Trump about a particular strategy, about how to get control of it and how to deal with it. Answer, he told me to work with david, meaning david and purchase the rights of this. Was there any conversation about pushing it to a period of time. Yes. Answer. During the negotiation to purchase and acquire the life rights. What he had said to me, what i want you to do is just push it out as long as you can. Just get past the election. Because if i win, it has no relevance. I will be president. If i lose, i dont even care. Question, did you bring up at the time the topic of his wife, melania in one of those conversations with mr. Trump. Answer, i did. And what did you said . I said and how is it going to go with upstairs. Answer, dont worry he goes. How long do you think ill be on the market for . Not long. Question, what did you understand that to mean . Answer, he wasnt thinking about melania. This was all about the campaign. A few things, nicole. Women will late me. Guys may think its cool. Im just going to leave that where it lies. But this, what i want you to do is push it out as long as you can. Get past the election. If i win it will have no relevance, i will be president. If i lose, i dont even care. This means theyre not paying Stormy Daniels. They have to scramble. Michael cohen pays himself. They want to string it out past the election then never pay her at all. Right. But then, the question about his wife. Arent you worried about your wife what she will think. Michael cohen is describing a conversation with donald trump which he is trying to elicit. Is there a reason for us to suppress the story other than the campaign and trump effectively says, i dont care if he knows, i dont care if shes mad. How long do you think ill be on the market for. Not long. Hes not the first one to testify about trumps sole interest with the campaign. And the only other person to have the conversation is the court of new york and they had the same testimony. Directing Michael Cohen. The facts are not in dispute by the other investors that looked at this. No one whos come before this jury has testified to any motive other than the campaign. And the real crisis the thing that makes the Stormy Daniels payment different, in addition to the crimes that were committed in the fraudulent Business Records is that this is one that happens in the compressed time period. Right. And it comes out the monday before the election and you have all those conversations where trump is telling Hope Insurance Hicks and hicks says im going to deny, deny, deny. And nobody has come out and talked about melania. I had a source of when the tape came out. And a few of them went upstairs from debate prep which was in the trump tower. And they went upstairs and melania was crying. His concerns about her were very distant second. His political concern is being of what he is always afraid of being, a loser. Reporter at the opening statements, trumps council did say, did suggest the reason that trump was paying this hush money or the reason that this response to Stormy Daniels rolled out some of the way that it did despite the parts they deny is because he did what anybody would have done. Trying to avoid embarrassment with the implication that he was trying to avoid implication. The embarrassment to his family on this. It does seem to be repeatedly rebutted by multiple witnesses in this case. It does. One thing that is a little unclear to me i referenced this where they effectively use that as a defense. When he was under federal trial for Campaign Finance violation. For paying out hush money. That it was fundamentally about protecting his wife which at the time was cancer stricken. And had a more plausible case. What i want to say is what the standard on this jury was on this aspect of the crime. Meaning, like, they clearly falsify Business Records. Right. I mean, there clearly was a Hush Money Payment, theres a huge amount of paper transaction. The motive to it we have multiple witnesses saying, it was about the campaign and not melania. But theres not the same kind of. Theres stuff in the evidentiary record. I guess my question is how much, whatever fuzziness a juror might feel about whether thats as firmly establishes other things effects whether you can find. Let me put that to you. Were now all familiar with intricacies of new york law, you can be charged with Misdemeanor Falsification of Business Records. Youre charged with a felony when it is used to commit or conceal the commission of another crime. But you dont have to prove the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. So if the crime is influenced the election. What is the standard . It doesnt have to be beyond a reasonable doubt. No, so its a great question because i think a lot of people went into todays testimony, if youre rooting for the prosecution hoping to have the clarity from Michael Cohens testimony. So the underlying misdemeanors of falsification of the Business Records is the lay up as chris says. But, for what purpose . Because thats what elevates or pumps it up to the felony. That secondary offense the Subject Offense of why would you want to falsify those Business Records. You dont have to prove that offense beyond or to the inclusion of beyond a reasonable doubt. You just have to point and say this is what it is. Thats why youre hearing, so heavily hear. Youre not hearing the tax side of it youre hearing the campaign, campaign, campaign. Becauses that the theory the prosecution got up in opening and said, is what the crime is. That standard seems to me watching this all develop to matter a lot. Because i do think if you were to ask me how much of this, they have established to me beyond a reasonable doubt, so far. The misdemeanors. Yes, theyve clearly, this was clearly fraudulent and they clearly covered up this thing, thats clear. Have they established it to the rock solid as that other thing. I would probably say no so far. But they dont have to. They dont need to. Having the testimony from cohen saying trump was in the room when they talked about the falsification gets you there. These things, it can be both. Thats the most important part. The jurors can think he did it for both reasons and as long as the campaign is one of them and certainly if its the dominant one then the case is made. But they dont have to completely exclude some sort of motivation involving his wife. However, michael, the evidence, this is really important. The evidence so far has excluded melania. Correct. Michael cohen under oath in evidence said he wasnt thinking about melania. You cannot get a clearer statement than that. Now, thats, this is going to be important the judge is going to instruct on this. Nothing the Trump Lawyers said in the opening is evidence. Everything that the witnesses said is evidence. The Defense Attorneys Cross Examination questions are not evidence. So what the crossexamination questions are going to be is, you lied about that didnt you. And cohen is going to go, no. And that you lied about it isnt evidence. They cannot and will not put donald trump on the Witness Stand who is the only person alive who could give evidence on what cohen said. He could say i didnt tell him to do it. I didnt reimburse him. Trump would have to give you that in direct testimony from the defense. Hes not going to. So the likelihood is youre going to go the jury with nothing but the evidence presented by the prosecution. You think its a 0 chance that trump testifies. Zero, it has to be. Well have to hear what cohen had to say about the trump world by name. As he makes the case he didnt act alone. And to my mind at least well be talking about the other appearances of the former first lady in todays trial testimony. Boy, did that one come as a surprise. Well have that portion of the transcript for you and an explanation when we come back. Stay with us. Pits stink. Thats why i use secret whole body deodorant. Everywhere. 4 out of 5 gynecologists would recommend whole body deodorant, which gives you 72 hour odor protection from your pits to your sfx deoderant being sprayed secret whole body deodorant. start your day with nature made. The 1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. Are your gutters clogged . Cleaning them can be dangerous, mucky, yuck. Get leaffilter. Its as easy as one, two, three. Call or click today. Get your free Gutter Inspection on your schedule and Get Leaffilter installed in as little as a few hours. Youll never have to clean out your gutters again, guaranteed. Get leaf filter today. 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We always fed them kibble it just seemed like the thing to do. But. He was getting picky we heard about the farmers dog. And it was a complete transformation. His coat was so soft, he had amazing energy. He was a completely different dog. Its a nobrainer that remi should have the most nutritious and Delicious Food possible. Im investing in my dogs health and happiness. Welcome back to our prime time recap of the criminal trial of former president donald trump. Prosecutors i would like to direct your attention to october 7, 2019. Do you remember where you were that day. Michael cohen, yes. Question, where were you. Answer, i was in london. Question, how you remember you were in london. Answer, i went to london for my daughters birthday and my anniversary. Question, did you hear of the release of the Access Hollywood video. Answer, yes. Question, how did you learn from it. Campaign manager for the Trump Campaign. Question, do you recognize this email. Answer, i do. Its an email between me and steve bannon as well as hope hicks. With the Subject Matter of urgent. Washington post query. Question, and just in general, whats he communicating to hope hicks and what is he asking for. Answer, hes asking her for comment on the release of the video. Does hope hicks forward that e mail to somebody else. Answer, she did. Need to hear the tape to make sure. Then follow with deny, deny, deny. As we control down does that get forwarded from mr. Bannon on to you. Question, while you were in london did you have several phone calls with hope hicks. Question, did mr. Trump join your call. Answer, yes. Question, do you have a separate memory of where you were, what you were doing when you had these phone calls with him. Answer, yes. Question, what were you doing. Answer i was with my family and friends in london. Question, were you having dinner. Answer, i was. Did you step out to take these calls. Answer. I did. Question, what was the strategy. Answer, i needed to make contact to with all of the media. And told me to say it was locker room talk, something that melania recommended. What if anything did you do at that point to try to assist the campaign with that effort. Answer, i reached out to members of the media. He told her that, excuse me. He told mr. Cohen that the Locker Room Talk Defense which became the defense. That spin about what the access Hollywood Tape was all about. Michael cohen says that trump told him it was his wifes idea. That it was Melania Trumps phrase. Locker room talk. The other thing thats important about this exchange besides that, bizarre assertion, is that it shows that Michael Cohen was not a rogue employee. He was not a solo operator especially on issues as nicole points out, to things that related to alleged infidelity. Michael cohen was part of a team. And this exhibit was filed in court today. This was right before the election. The election was november 8th. This was november 4th. This email exchange between hope hicks and Michael Cohen shows several types of denials that theyre about to run on these infidelities and the cover up of them. Cohen respond with his own. He says instead say this. These accusations are completely untrue and just the latest clinton machine to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Prosecutors throughout this trial have not just allowed, they have basically invited testimony from earlier witnesses including from hope hicks. Invited these witnesses to disparage or say how much they didnt like or didnt respect Michael Cohen. But then today they showed the receipts of him not working alone. Specifically he was a key part of the whole teams response when it came to the allegations from women. How does that part of his Testimony Today and this evidence introduced today help the prosecution . I am endlessly intrigued by the sinister role hope hicks played. Because other than barr theres no one other whos reputation has been launders than hope hicks. And she is in a room with trump and hes talking about himself in third person. Is that trump. And she says were going to deny, deny, deny. If you read her Draft Responses theyre more bombastic, more partisan than anything. Cohen edits her down. Hicks a elbowed liar for trump. And cohen is the moderator on the campaign. The melania thing i had heard at the time. And melania goes out and does an interview where she says that. I dont know if it was that Hostage Statement at the time. I cant remember if he uses it but she does an interview. They somehow, i dont know how but they get her to do an interview and she uses that line in an interview she does. I think it was after the debate so its maybe four days after the tape is dropped. But that is their, their line. Tragically, because the other story stays silent, you know, in their minds they think it does work. The melania question, is kind of important on this point. Because melania will through the questioning of the defense, they will try to use her as a reason donald trump wanted these things to not come out. But what youre seeing there is, Melania Trump in this testimony is going to be uncontested, lets remember. Donald trump is not going take the Witness Stand and say, melania didnt say that. Melania will not take the Witness Stand and say i did not say that. So it will be uncontested. This is melania after he hears how trump brags about his favorite form of Sexual Assault. This is worse than what youre hearing about mcdougal. This portrays melania as the key cover up lets get our guy through it. Which means why would you ever worry about melania when the Stormy Daniel story comes along. Putting in the mind of a single juror a Counter Narrative that makes this whole hush money and falsification of Business Records scheme something that is innocent because it wasnt criminal, it was just designed to protect melania. Just designed to protect the family rather than to influence the campaign. If thats what theyre going to try to do, it seems very hard to do that now given the testimony about mrs. Trumps own contributions to this defense and to what he, what trump explained about how he didnt care about whether she knew. Just a second, they would put the wife on the Witness Stand. She would be in tears saying this crushed me. I would be devastated. When i learned about this news, it was the worse day of my life. Thats how the defense would make their case. Or she would be there. But her absence speaks volumes in the absence of belief in donald trump. Our recap of the only trial of a former president in history continues. Stay with us, we have much more to come. When did i call leaffilter . When i saw my gutters overflowing onto my porch. Leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so, you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. Its the easiest call you can make. Call 833. 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Wooooo welcome back to our msnbc prime time recap of the criminal trial of. Im here with my colleagues from msnbc along with craig from the New York Times. Today, the prosecution called its 20th and likely, its final witness, trumps longtime lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen. Michael cohen today told the jury that trump personally approved and directed a Hush Money Payment to the Adult Film Actress in 2016, including the False Pretense of structuring the payment as if it was a set of legal fees when it was not. Cohen testified today that trump did this explicitly to protect his president ial campaign from the damage her story would cause but it was not paid to protect his family or his wife from any embarrassment. This Blockbuster Testimony defined the official court action inside the court, and the direct examination of will continue. The Cross Examination will begin thereafter and we expect lots of fireworks at that point but today, outside the court, trump made his own bid for attention with the help from some of his friends. Do we call them friends . Possible Running Mates . Political allies . I dont know. As he always does on his way into court this morning, he stopped in front of cameras to spend a few minutes denouncing the trial but if you look over his right shoulder, are those familiar faces . Yes, they are. In front of Donald Trumps adult son, eric, there are two senators, jd Vance Of Ohio and Tommy Turberville of alabama. Those two senators came along with a republican congresswoman from Staten Island and two republican attorneys general, one from alabama, one from iowa to keep donald trump company. This is becoming kind of a thing in republican politics, to make a pilgrimage to trumps trial. Last week it was republican senator rick scott, who is up for reelection this year in florida. Nbc news has confirmed that former republican president ial candidate Vivek Ramaswamy will join trump in court tomorrow. Okay. And, the craven, desperate politics of all of this is embarrassing to everyone who is watching it. Many of these folks are obviously hoping for what will be games and what they hope will be a second trump administration. Jd vance, in particular, is desperate to be considered for trumps Vice President but when he and senator turberville left the courtroom today they made sure to tell everybody they were only there to support their dear, dear friend in need. Im here for the simple reason to show support for a friend. Luckily, the president s supporters should know that hes in great spirits despite the circumstances of this. Im here today to represent and pay my respects to what former President Trump is going through. Its a tough time for him. That courtroom is depressing. This is new york city. Icon of our country and we have a courtroom that is the most depressing thing ive ever been in good mental anguish is trying to be pushed on republican candidate for the president of United States this year, thats all this is. Republican candidate for president of United States is going through mental anguish and a courtroom that is very depressing, very depressing. There is a littleknown Constitutional Amendment that requires a playful mobile to be put above criminal defendants in courtrooms that are particularly depressing. Its like a subset of the eighth amendment. At one point, senator vance voiced concern that donald trump was being made to feel quote, lonely, because he is not seeing crowds of supporters everyday outside the courthouse. That is because they are not there. The senators and the rest of the gaggle of republican officials who were at the courthouse today all echoed one of trumps most common complaints about his trial, which is that it is keeping him off the Campaign Trail. He should be out on the Campaign Trail but of course hes here with this trial. Our former President Trump is tied up in court. This is an effort to keep donald trump in new york city so he cant go out and speak to the people of this country about why he should be re elected as president. I should be out campaigning now instead of sitting in a very cold courthouse all day long. Its not that cold. Donald trump should be out campaigning. He should be out barnstorming the swing states. That of course is what he would be doing if you are not at this trial. Thats the line, right . Heres the problem. Its true trump is required to be in court when it is in session. He is, after all, a criminal defendant but that is only maximum four days a week. Sometimes its only three days a week and on those other days when court is not in session the former president is mostly not campaigning. Most of his nontrial days hes been hanging out in his club in florida or staying home in new york or new jersey, as is his right. But, it remains this strange and easily disproven thing that trump and his alliesend quote, friends, are constantly saying he would be out campaigning if you are not in court. That is easily disproven by the observable fact that when hes not in court, he is mostly not doing that. To be fair, he did have one big rally this weekend in new jersey, a state that has not voted for republican for president since 1988, but hope springs eternal. It does have the advantage of being a quick journey from trumps apartment so maybe that is the reason he did it but meanwhile, President Biden is running what you might call counterprogramming. President biden is actually doing what trump says he wants to be doing. He is hitting the swing states repeatedly. Wisconsin, pennsylvania, north carolina, he even hit trumps backyard in florida last month and while trump has made his trial the centerpiece of his campaign, not to the point where republicans have to come and sit in court with him in order to show their support, President Biden basically never mentions the trial. He barely even mentioned to his opponent in the election is. He talks up his administrations accomplishments. He talks up how his accomplishments will help the people of whatever swing state he is in. Like much of the biden presidency, it feels like an act of radical normalcy in the face of go what is going on in American Politics and on the other side of the president ial contest. Whatever else can be said about this president ial election, the two candidates are running wildly different campaigns and especially on a day like this it feels like they are running on wildly different planets. Lets bring in our colleague, jen psaki. Thank you for being with us tonight. Let me ask you, i feel like there was this pretrial Pundit Ocracysort of conduit common wisdom that trump was going to sell a lot of merchandise with his money should mug shot but that this is going to be a political bonanza for him. I dont think we see anything in the polling showing the trial changing much one way or the other in terms of either of the two candidates. However the politics of this trial being made manifest . Well, we dont know yet. I will say one additional detail you didnt mention but that is my favorite from last wednesday is that trump spent time dining with people who spent about 10,000 on lfts and they got to get a piece of his suit and a piece of his type. Thats how he spent the day campaigning so there you go. I think the polling has not impacted people. We know from polling that if he is convicted that could impact people and how they view him. We will see, but if you look at the contrast here, rachel, joe biden is out there. I think one of the best things he has done recently is the offense in wisconsin where he went to a state and went to a place for trump to promise about jobs that he could not deliver on, did not deliver on. That had a little edge to it. You need a little edge to breakthrough these days so that was a good thing but there has to be more of that in order for biden to continue to make progress in this campaign. This is the thing that stuck out to me so much about today, is the sort of sideshow, but its not a sideshow, of the senators. It is so strange seeing jd vance and Tommy Turberville in new york. It was like a wheres waldo moment like where there there they are in back of him at this press conference. As you said, not only did they stand there, they went out afterwards and put up things on social media because they are looking for approval from trump, and that adds to what weve seen over the last couple of weeks, which is one, people who want to be the Vice President ial running mate or in the cabinet confirming they dont think trump lost the election in 2020. Two, we have started to see a number of people in the last couple of weeks suggest they might not respect the outcome of the election in 2024. That is replaying the game again and this is the third piece. Were going to see more tomorrow. This is something that tells you about his own political power even if we are not clear about where the two candidates are going to be at the end of this trial. If you imagine a world in which republican politics is not rotating around the axis of donald trump, what are the politics . What is the political impact of the sitting senators and ambitious republican politicians, making sure that they are seen inside of what they are decrying is a very depressing new york city courtroom . They are putting themselves in state Criminal Court as a way of trying to get themselves before the american people. This is just it may be one thing to try to get trumps favor, but this exists in its own right in terms of how they are displaying themselves, how they want us to think of their value in politics and how they want us to think of them when it comes to criminal defendants in the process. They think its a winner for them to some degree to hug and align themselves with trump and perhaps in their states, it is. Jd vance is not up for re election this year. Tommy turberville, he does a lot of crazy things but he is alabama. Trump is quite popular there, so for them, it might be a win among their constituents but it also tells you that they dont Think Standing by and attending the criminal trial of a former president , who by the way, is there because of his role in paying hush money to a former adult film star, that is not going to hurt them politically, that it only helps them among the basin that tells you so much about where the Republican Party in the base of the Republican Party is. The other thing youve talked about a lot as well over the course of time on your show, it tells you these people are saying i know that you had enablers in 2020. Im raising my hand. Im happy to be there and enable you in 2024 should you want to question the outcome of election if you lose the election. That is the message they are sending by being there and answering questions, as many have, over the past couple of weeks suggesting they will not necessarily commit to respecting the outcome of the election. Thats right, they are saying put me in, coach, when it comes time to try to subvert american democracy to do something to hold onto power, i want you to call on me and im willing to stand with you in the criminal docket in order to do it. It is the Law And Order party, obviously. Jen psaki, thank you so much for joining us. As i mentioned at the top, joining us now, Suzanne Craig from the New York Times and ari melber, our correspondent. I feel like trump is really functioning as a summation witness. Its not Michael Collins own role in the plot. It feels like hes telling us everything that happened, hes giving us The Whole Story. Did it feel that way in court . It did and i saw it a little bit differently because i felt while he did that, they also kept very much three parts. They kept him to the evidence. He was a corroborating witness from a lot of testimony that has come so what he said today, some of it was from earlier. I think thats a good thing because his credibility is going to be questioned. He also spoke to the documents. We heard that not only did donald trump instruct the payment to Stormy Daniels get made, but then they went in and talked about it in the office, so he had some additional testimony along those lines because the documents, and is going to speak to some of them i think again tomorrow, but they dont get you to intent, but i really do feel they wanted michael to come in and really backup a lot of what has been heard. I found that the Testimony Today was incredibly quick. There were so many yes no questions. They were creating a narrative like they did with david pecker at the beginning. He was an incredible tour guide through all of it. Michael cohen was very fast and sometimes we were having Trouble Keeping Track of the dates. If we got to a meeting, boy, did we want to know something more about that meeting. There was no, can you elaborate on that . I think they know what is coming on cross and they dont want him to say anything out of the four corners. No, they are limiting what he says so he cant be torn apart. I really felt that they were. He became more comfortable, too, once he got up on the stand. He was more nervous at first so i felt they kept him moving. I actually felt they wanted to finish today, it was going that quickly. Actually, we are going to head into more direct but then i just dont think they wanted to open the door for anything. In terms of looking ahead to that cross, i was interested in your special coverage today. You had a guest on who was very bullish on the defense, and said you know, Michael Collins going to get destroyed on Cross Examination. He also repeatedly called you area. I was like is he actually trying to start a fight . So, it was a weird thing. Looking ahead toward the Cross Examination do you feel like michael has a glass jar here, that he has shown himself to be vulnerable in a way that is inviting a real beating from the defense . Not glass, but maybe recently smoked. He has some holes and i think they will get to that on the lawyer you mentioned defended donald trump at the second impeachment, which if you are picking, was the worst one. Thats why i was happy to get his views. I think the issue for Michael Cohen on cross will be overall credibility, because they will get into the criminal record in his story did change, and then raising doubt that he mightve gone wrong, but he went rogue story is farfetched, but they dont need to prove it. They just need to raise the doubt that it could be true. To echo what we were just discussing, there have been days where defendant trumped trump looked unseemly, looked on relatable, looked untrustworthy. I thought today, Michael Cohen and the way they did this testimony, this is the day donald trump looked most like a criminal. I thought it was a very bad day for him because his own lawyer, who went to prison, very clearly provided the timeline of a proactive plan to commit a crime. As sounded familiar, too, because weve had all these other witnesses come in and i thought that was what was effective today. Most of the things he said, the journey jury has heard it before and thats what i thought was effective about todays testimony. Let me ask you a piece of this as a lawyer looking at the way the prosecution is making this case, one of the things we got today over and over again was, donald trump doesnt pay his bills, so we got that a whole bunch of different ways. Michael cohen was first hired as a lawyer at the Trump Organization after he was working for another law firm, submitted a bill for 100,000 for legal fees, and trump didnt want to say them and said im not going to pay that bill. Come work for me instead. Michael cohen never goes back to his office. They sent Trump Organization employees to go clean out that office and the bill disappears. Michael collins first big coup working as trumps lawyer is stiffing the vendors and suppliers to Trump University. Michael cohen almost loses the Karen Mcdougal Hush Money Arrangement because they dont want to pay Karen Mcdougal. Michael cohen almost loses the Stormy Daniels Hush Money Arrangement because they dont want to pay Stormy Daniels. Michael cohen ultimately gets back some of his money he paid to a Technical Services firm in his final payments because that firm was also stiffed two years prior. We get the recording that was played for the jury because Michael Cohen has to cover up for donald trump stiffing ami on the payment for Karen Mcdougal so he is making a recording to assure ami eventually, we will pay you. All of these things are a cascading series of screwing people, for lack of a better and people term come out of their bills. It speaks to the Ebenezer Scrooge Energy of donald trump. Its good for the prosecution because it feeds into the concept of the evidence, which says that donald trump is a pennypinching miserly person who will always count his pennies, and to chris six chris point earlier that you cant always prove an invoice for essential consultants, when all he did was front hundred and 30,000, what you just did right now, you proved how effective Michael Cohen is. Think about this. You think about this. Donald trump always said famously where is my roy cohen . There is a reason why he wanted roy cohen. He was indicted four times. He also represented john gotti. If Michael Cullen was so bad at his job, trump would never have kept him around and because of the effectiveness of him dealing with the cheapness of donald trump, donald trump kept Michael Cohen and that is a reason why donald trump never wanted a good attorney, he wanted a flawed attorney. He saw that in Michael Cohen. He tested Michael Cohen with that bill from his original law firm and when he stiffed Michael Cohens original law firm and cohen jumped at the opportunity, donald trump said heres my new boy. They are saying donald trump would not pay 400,000 unless he offered it. The defense is going to be Cohen Weiselberg went rogue of this pennypinching thing is going to come up because the defenses, i think their main thing is going to be those two went rogue and he didnt see it. Much more to come in our coverage of the Trump Criminal Trial today in new york including what happened when Michael Cohen asked donald trump directly about what happened with Stormy Daniels. The answer says he got, which the defense is not going to like and not going to want to explain, and more when we come back. Stay with us. Back. Stay with us. Deal. Then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means theres about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. Symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or Light Headedness can come and go. But if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. If you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. Holding off on seeing a doctor wont change whether or not you have afib. But if you do, making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. Contact a doctor and learn more at notimetowait. Com tech need to get your windshield fixed . Safelite makes it easy. You can schedule in just a few clicks. And well come to you with a replacement you can trust. Vo schedule Free Mobile Service now at safelite. Com. Safelite repair, safelite replace. bounce back fast from heartburn with new tums gummy bites, and love food back. and theyre all coming . Those who are still with us, yes. Grandpa whats this . Your wings. Light em up gentlemen, its a beautiful. Day to fly. Welcome back to our prime time recap of the criminal trial of former President Trump. Prosecutor. I will take you back for a minute and onto 2011. Had you learned at that time in 2011 about what miss daniels did for a living . Michael cohen, i did. Prosecutor, what did you hear at that time . That she was an adult film star. Prosecutor, and this came up again i think you mentioned because it was an article on the dirty. Com at the time . Correct. Question and you worked with Keith Davidson to get that article taken down . Answer yes, maam. Question did you have a conversation with mr. Trump about Stormy Daniels . Can you tell us in general the gist of that conversation . Answer, after i received the information from dylan howard i immediately went to mr. Trumps office, knocked on the door and said boss, i got to speak to you and i told him about the conversation that i just had with dylan howard and i asked him, meaning asked him, if you knew who she was. He told me that he did and i stated about the story that existed on the journey. Com, that they had a relationship that occurred during a golf outing going back to 2006 and i told him one of the things we need to do is obviously take care of it. Question, did mr. Trump also tell you anything about having met her at the Golf Tournament back in 2006 . Answer yes. Question what did he tell you . Answer he told me he was playing golf with big Ben Roethlisberger, the football player, and they had met Stormy Daniels and others there but that she liked mr. Trump, that women prefer trump even over someone like big ben. Question, did you ask him at that time in 2011 whether he had a Sexual Encounter with Stormy Daniels . Answer he did. Question did he mention anything about what she looked like . Answer, he said she was a beautiful woman. Quick break for a shower and we are back. This adds to the litany of testimony at the trial so far that supports, at least circumstantially, the contention that Stormy Daniels was not lying, the sexual interaction did happen between her and donald trump. Why do we have so much testimony to that end in this trial and what does it do, if anything, for the prosecutions case, chris . First of all that little detail about roethlisberger really leapt off the page when i read it today because that part of Stormy Daniels testimony was so memorable, that he introduces her and then she has to push them out of her room the next night. We also know roethlisberger settled a civil claim for Sexual Assault with a woman who says he sexually assaulted her, which he denies, at that same Golf Tournament in a different year, so that is part of it. It was the same Golf Tournament, different year. So, that lights up, i think, the memory of the jurors in terms of corroborating, like everyone is going to remember is Ben Roethlisberger is around and everyones going to talk about it. The other thing is again, the underlying facts being corroborated do seem important in terms of the motive for covering it up. I do think you would be more concerned about the true allegation that a false one, probably, on the particularly, a true allegation that there couldve been other people around to corroborate like if youre palling around the Golf Tournament. We always look for pattern and practice when we talk about some legal concepts in the common denominator we are hearing always is the doorman having a story about donald trump following a love child. Karen mcdougal had a yearlong affair with donald trump allegedly. That is a David Rothkopf act. Its all the common denominator of something that donald trump theoretically, according to him, just being locker room talk, you would not be ashamed about that, right . It completely feeds into the idea that he was doing all of these Hush Money Payments for dino all the way to stormy to make sure that once he made it into the white house it doesnt make a difference which is why he booted Michael Cohen fund he made it to the white house. He didnt need Michael Cohen anymore because he made it across the finish line which completely supports the Trump Campaign being the beneficiary. Although, can i just note something . It is also the case that before he is even running for office in 2011 when the article ends up on the dirty. Com, aptly named, hes like weve got to take it down, like there is a certain level of reputational protection happening in the background. Now, they are not paying money for it. I think that to me is what so stands out. You could want to suppress that stuff for noncampaign reasons and clearly did in 2011. To me, what is so distinguishing about the schemas given by the prosecutor since the timing and the amount of money at stake. I would put it even more simply. He is on trial for lying. That is what fraud is. Its lying in service of what, Campaign Crime so we talk about low information voters sometime. There is that term, people who are not following the news every night like we are and viewers are. Jurors are supposed to be low information citizens. If they are superhigh information, there are probably not only covered in the questioning of them so the other thing happening here is very simple. Most of these jurors have not followed all of this really closely. Maybe they know Michael Cohens name. They probably know Karen Mcdougals name or david name and so for low information jurors, if you can show this is trumps chosen environment, and these are the stream of lies, and some of the lies were not crimes. Thats okay. They get instructions on that. This is got to be fair to the defendant and some of the alleged lies are alleged crimes because you cannot just go around and take 130,000 and call it 420 in light of the government and cheap. Suzanne, as you are watching this day after day, i think thats a very good point about how youre not only picking people who are not necessarily the highest informed people but the jurors are instructed to not watch any news. Do not watch the msnbc discussion of this. Only focus on whats been given to you as evidence in this courtroom. Seeing it laid out in the courtroom, is it cogent . It is. Its a powerful story. I still come back to david pecker and what a great tour guide he was from the beginning because he was able to lay it out and to end, and he spoke to trump. Michael cohen was sort of the gobetween and i think he effectively set him up at the beginning then we get to the end when we have Michael Cohen and i keep thinking about one thing we have not talked about is the tape that came in for you have donald trump talking about the payment, and he is like, pay it in cash and Michael Cohen is like no and the reason he was like, no, he explained it today, because he wanted to have a record so it could look like a legitimate business transaction. It would be to dodge if it was a suitcase full of money. Yes, then he explains he was taping it according to him, he was not taping it because he didnt trust all of the participants, which he shouldnt have, he was taping it so he could tell david pecker that he was going to deliver on it. Is going to pay you. I will secretly tape him saying it. It was just a good reminder that everything today it was Michael Cohen narrating tapes including with donald trump. More recap comes up in just a moment. Now, we come to the telephone records, another woman his story threatened to take the Trump Campaign. We still have a lot more head from Michael Cohens Testimony Today. Stay with us. Today. Stay with us. To relieve pain right where it hurts. And did we mention, it really, really sticks . Salonpas, its good medicine. [ la donna by Vechi Playing ] and didgeorge, can you really, turn the music off . George . George [ Phone Ringing ] george, can you get that . George agh george. Hello george, can you mute the music . [ id. 4 Voice Assistant ] alright. 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Sleepiness is the most common side effect. Take control by asking your doctor about ingrezza. Ingrezza shell renewable race fuel. Reducing emissions by 60 . Were moving forward with indycar. Because were moving forward with everybody. Shell. Powering progress. Welcome back to our recap of the criminal trial of former President Trump. One of the things that happened today and Michael Cohens testimony is that he describe the circumstances under which he made a recording of himself speaking to his boss, speaking to donald trump. It was a recording of an in person meeting. He walked into Trumps Office with the voice notes app on his Phone Recording while he either held his phone or had it in his pocket. The reason he said he made the recording is because david pecker from American Media expected to be paid back 150,000 that American Media had advanced to a woman named Karen Mcdougal, who claimed that she had a long affair with donald trump. As part of the alleged scheme with donald trump to suppress information about his cane pain, had paid mcdougal but really so they would own the life rights to that story about donald trump and make sure that store never saw the light of day. At some point after ami had advanced that money, cohen and trump, according to cohen, decided they would purchase those rights from ami. They would effectively reimburse ami for having made that outlay of cash but in so doing, they would buy those life rights themselves and for a while, they talked about including in the purchase price, the Treasure Chest of information that American Media had accumulated over time about the life and loves of donald trump, a locked drawer, reportedly full of information about trump. They thought for their 150 grand, they could get the Karen Mcdougal rights, they could get all the trump stuff. They were worried to get that information because cohen testified today that david pecker , the head of this magazine empire, was going to get a job. He would leave. That would mean david pecker, their friend and protector, was going to leave behind a ami all of that information about trump. Wouldnt that be terrible . Somebody else might get it. Wouldnt it be better if we owned that ourselves, so here is Michael Cohen and donald trump in the recording Cohen Made Without Trump Knowing in a meeting and Trumps Office. Have spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding. So what do we got to pay for this, 150 . Yes and its all the stuff. So, im all over that any spoke to alan about it, when it comes time for the financing, which will be wait a s. E. C. , what financing . Will have to pay them something. With cash . No, check. Lets bring into the conversation our colleague, lisa rubin. Also catherine christian, former attorney at the ds office. Lisa, if i characterize the context of that recording correctly, when they say david pecker might get hit by a truck, what they mean is he might no longer be the custodian of what they believe is negative information about trump so we should own that ourselves. Correct. Is a clear to you why it matters that trump is suggesting making this payment in cash even though cohen argues against it . Well, for starters, trump does not want a record of it. The exact same reasons the saying lets cut a check because i want to protect trump with a record is the very same reason donald trump is begging him to use cash, because he wants no one to know about it at all but i think the larger importance of the tape is not about cash or check, its about Situating Donald Trump at the center of the scheme and showing that he was involved in each and every plan to execute on the conspiracy by repaying for Karen Mcdougal settlement on one hand and then later on paying Stormy Daniels himself. When you talk about paying for something in a way that is untraceable or communicating about something in a way that is untraceable, the state does not necessarily move the needle about trumps knowledge and involvement and on the other hand, it shows the knowledge to be involved in a coverup because he was directly involved in the crime itself. So this goes to the larger point that we have been talking about tonight, all of us, which is that there is no viable if the prosecution is doing its job there is no viable Counter Narrative that Michael Cohen was acting alone, that trump had no idea any of this was happening. Rather, the prosecution is presenting a picture of Michael Cohens actions as situated in and connected to, and integral with trumps own actions. It also goes to intent, and the judge is going to instruct the jury that the definition of intent, it was the defendants conscious objective to cause a result somewhat of, intent, consciousness of guilt. What gets me about this relationship, it was not an attorneyclient relationship. It was a master servant relationship. The prosecution will probably not argue that but this really was not in a close turning an attorneyclient relationship. We keep coming back to the burden of proof being on the constitution. I feel like, and again, maybe im thinking about this in a way that is not the median juror, but i do need something to hang on to that is an alternate story for all the stuff. I mean, you could raise doubts about it but in order to empathize with the defense, in order to think it wasnt exactly what it looks like i guess i feel like okay, lets see you gave me some theory that cohen went rogue. This is cooked up by weisenburger and cohen, maybe thats plausible but then i need something about white trump writes in the chest. I can give it to you. If you admit the misdemeanor, business fraud, its on paper, cfo, he lied, but you say when an in cohen did all this you might later help raise doubt against whether it was contemporaneously Consciousness Intent at the time before election day, which means its true that he did instruct them to reimburse them. You can say i want you to instruct the jury on the lesser offense of falsifying Business Records. Thats not pleading guilty but you are admitting it. Then the jury says we dont know where the intent to conceal a crime is but he has 24 Misdemeanor Convictions instead of a felony. Dont you think if you have a defendant has not confirmed consumed by ego that would be a better instruction . If this were me i would have pled guilty on day one and this would be over today. To be clear, i didnt do it. We will be back. Stay with us. L be back. Stay with us. Ea treatment that works inside my body with just the click of this button. A button . No mask . No hose . Just sleep. 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Dont take if allergic to nurtec odt. Allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. Most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. Its time we all shine. Talk to a Healthcare Provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. Prosecutor, what if anything did you discuss with mr. Davidson on the phone calls about Karen Mcdougal . Michael cohen that she was also under control that nobody is going here. Did you express any anger for the article . She was his client and i expected she would have this under control. It was days before and i wanted to ensure mr. Trump was safe. Prosecutor, were you angry with him . , very. Did you think someone on his side had like Something Like this to the wall street journal . Cohen, yes. Did you indicate to him that somebody might be very upset with him . Cohen, i did. Prosecutor, who did you indicate might be very upset with him, objection leading. Judge, some stained. Since sustained. Prosecutor what did you tell him about these calls . That he was truly angry and we hope that we dont come back to find out this is something you guys did for this is a major problem. Michael cohen giving us a window into the type of work he did for donald trump. You were talking about what Michael Cohen was doing for donald trump, what type of relationship this was. It was, and again, i dont want to be offensive but it was servant master. He did whatever donald trump told him to do. He wanted to please him, basically. Which explains his hostility and hatred now. After all i did for him, and he doesnt take me to the white house. This is what hes done. Does this go to disproving the theoretical Counter Narrative that this was Michael Cohen being paid for the legal retainer, that Michael Cohens Legal Services were super valuable to mr. Trump as president . They are not Legal Services in 2016 and there were not any Legal Services in 2017 which i think is the proper stronger proof. One of the things i found funny today is hope hicks really demeaned Michael Cohen, basically saying he was useless, he was mixed mr. Fixit in name only but who did they rely on when they needed the cleanup Access Hollywood. They called oh cohen. And to make dino the doorman go away, to make Karen Mcdougal go away, Michael Cohen was involved in all of these things because he was asked to be, not because he freelanced it. Can i just ask a question about comportment and credibility . My sense from reading the accounts today was that he came off pretty well. , that cohen came off pretty well and seemed credible. He admitted to doing shady stuff without doing a lot of circumlocution around it. Is that an accurate sense . It was the most humble Michael Cohen i think any of us have ever seen. A recap of the Trump Criminal Trial continues just ahead. I will be right back. Ahead. I will be right back. Plus odor protection. Try for under 5 can neuriva support your brain health . 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