no proof, a large impeachment inquiry without providing any evidence. and leaked audio reveals a chaotic meeting between the families of hostages and israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. let's get started. tucker carlson, steve, g n marjorie taylor greene. these are just some of the far-right extremists who could fill donald trump's cabinet if he is elected again in 2024. according to axios reports, there are two big requirements for these position. loyalty to trump and commitment to stretch the boundaries of the law and governance. trump plans to fill this cabinet it or this cabinet should he win with so-called true believers. those like stephen miller, jamie vance, anyone he deems willing to publish critics and take controversial legal and military action. a shock to the system just to hear tucker carlson. tucker is apparently melania's number one pick. cash patel who is reportedly being floated as the head of the wait for, its cia, said that if elected the former president will quote come after the conspirators in the media and the government who helped joe biden rig presidential elections. patel said quote, we will prosecute anyone that broke the law and and weaponize two tier systems of justice. this comes weeks after the new york times revealed how the second trump term would involve quote, sweeping raids, giant camps, and mask importation's. washington post recently reported that they're compiling a list of individuals they want to investigate or prosecute. even drafting plans cabrera ten chalet have the insurrection act on his first day in office. to allow him to deploy the military against civil demonstrations. trump has been very clear about the fume and emission of a second presidency. it is about retribution. and unlikely for his presidency, he will not be restrained by more conventional administration officials from the killers to the james madison to the garry cohen's. now, if vice president kari his most evil impulses.o carve and wait, there is. more trump is not just looking to fill his cabinet with lolists, his allies are also prescreen the ideologies of thousands of potential foot soldiers as part of the unprecedented operation to centralize and expand his power at every level of the u.s. government, should he win in 2024. to those of you clinging on to the idea that america survived one trump administration, and can certainly survive another, remember that a second trump term certainly will not be like the first. this time he would be back with no guard rails. just an army of yes men enabling and unleashing his most extreme impulses. joining me now are kurt birdell, democratic strategist and spokesperson for republicans in the contributor to l.a. times. hazel brown writer and editor for msnbc daily and -- latino and msnbc contributors. pray for you all to be with us. i think we cannot be clearer than what we just laid out here. because you saw even as a last night, and events sponsored by the young republican club, trump doubled down on his comments that he made at fox news. if reelected, he will be a dictator from day one. a day one dictator. he is saying it loud and clear. it was not a slip of the tongue. >> yeah. i mean, the stakes of this election could not be clearer. it is between dictatorship and democracy. it is a single issue election. donald trump gets elected again, he's telling us and he's revealing to us openly what he intends to do. wreaking havoc on democracy. the havoc he intends to wreak on our checks and balances system. but he will overnights transform a republic into a dictatorship. i think that is something that we take very seriously. this is in 2016. this, isn't he says things for shock value. he says things to try to dominate the news cycle. we saw from january six that these people, the trump devout followers, they take his words as marching orders. this is not a game or empty rhetoric. this is a real. this is a threat. donald trump represents next essential threat to democracy. >> it is not just what donald trump said. the reaction from the, people from the crimes that he speaks to. at that town hall there are people in the audience cheering. and trump refused to rule out abusing powers. it begs the question what happened to the live and let live small government republican party that was all about freedom not to dictatorship? >> they had been sort of co-opted. the ideas of the small sea conservatives of america, who have had a home in the republican party, those i think they still exist out there. but they have been overwhelmed by what trump has brought in. the idea that people like him, who support people like them, that they have had their enemies coming in so it is only right and fair to go against them. that theme of retribution, the theme of revenge is what is fueling his campaign. standing in the crowds he says i just want to be a dictator on day one. they're cheering him on because they, think yeah you deserve that. you deserve the things. that we we want you to. who cares who gets in your. way and you will punish the people who stopped in the first place. the fact that this is such a central theme to his campaign, that his campaign staffers anna trying to tell the president, don't listen to anything except for trump and the other campaign people said. we want you to ignore the many statements that have been given to the press by anti trump advisers, like kash patel. statements that are contained within the narrative foundations are part of 2025, which relatedly pay for what they want to do. once trump is back in office. the trump campaign knows that this is a liability with anyone who is not promptly marching to their beat. so they're trying to downplay it at this point. >> the idea of saying director patel gives me shivers up my spine. -- intelligence and some of our most sensitive information. trump is running on retribution. he has made that clear. it seems like he is working with his base. it has to be a scary moment for our country. >> i think that one of the things that we can do is learn from what we didn't do as meeting in 2016. in 2016, a lot of my colleagues are making light of what he is saying. he was telling us exactly what he was. he was about to do what -- in. office armor being intimate receptions and hearing -- i'm gonna go cover, him isn't that funny. them saying, no take him seriously. because i come from a place where people were persecuted based on the things that he said. so my encouragement is, people in the media, you do a stellar job every single time you're on the air. you are taking this into account. you are taking this seriously. the only way that we are going to be able to get through this moment is to be clear eyed and recognize that when he goes -- he is not kidding. and instead of having a street analysis where we are trying to make sure that we are being, quote unquote and biased, we have to be able to communicate to marry people that what he says is strict. and as a result, take him seriously. because at the end of the day, the only way we're going to be able to stop someone who wants to be the demise of democracy, not just for our country but for the free world, is by making sure that we are doing the checks and balances. the only institution that is capable of doing that outside of congress at this moment is the fourth estate. it is the press. so every single time we need to make sure that we are building into account. we cannot make light of what he is telling us because he has told us that it was not the first time. the first time was a dress for her soul. i'm incredibly grateful for you do every single day, it is not easy. but at the end of the day is important to state that -- because while he may have supporters, we also understand that the majority of americans may not be paying attention. but if we are constantly doing our job, focusing, could this person potentially be a threat towards a marker sandra children and our future, then that is where democracy has a chance. >> i wonder of looking back at these two years where democrats eye control of the house and the senate early on, was there more that could've been done to establish guardrails not just to prevent the return of donald trump to prevent a future dictator from usurping power from democratic means not giving it back? i think the concern that many people have as you valle d'aosta is that donald trump's first term was a dry run. he has learned the loopholes and knows where the vulnerabilities are. and this time around we knew to exploit them even in the face of not having legal guardrails to prevent them from doing so. >> absolutely. there were slew of reports that could've been made while democrats had -- in washington. it was a call to protect with this draft series, bills that were designed to put those guardrails more firmly into a place. to take a look at the loopholes. which donald trump just crashed. things are not necessarily laws and don't have official repercussions but are just seeing a has the correct way to do things. the civilized. the right way to govern the country that trump just blew through. not passing those bills is a huge mistake on democrats part. and looking forward, do you see that there should be, for example, a republican controlled senate in trump's terms? in terms of confirming the nominees that they talked about, trump has said back in 2018 he prefers acting. he prefers acting secretaries who would still be able to issue orders in his name. with the full force of the law. but who cares if they are the ones in charge. without a senate and congress to really put the brakes on that, who knows how far they will push. >> when you see some of the needs of have been floated around, you've got that, silly names with tucker carlson and -- they are dangerous in their own ways. the cash patel's potentially being in a very powerful position that can have very dangerous consequences for the very fabric of our society. not just the racist rhetoric in the great replacement theory but actually weaponizing government to go against opponents of the government. one names striking the most to be worried about? >> well i think you hit them right there. the idea that kash patel would be trusted with the intelligence is an oxymoron. he's positioning himself to be the white house chief of staff. steve bannon is a self proclaimed leninist. somebody lake stevens miller, who is a white nationalist, opposing the attorney general. this terrifying. every single person in this country, it will be a swift decline from a functioning public into an authoritarian regime. everyone who looks like you and i will be put on notice that they are coming for you. they are not hiding it. they're broadcasting it, they are bragging. they are excited, they are proud. they're egging him on. some people don't understand how really close they actually are. january 6th was just chapter one in this effort to try to re-make america into something much darker and much more violent. these are the people who would be the architects in instruments to do just that. >> on january six it was the opening shot of what would possibly be to come. we have much more to discuss after the break. we will talk about house republicans and their vote next week to discuss the evidence free -- inquiry. >> a, man. thank you hear some of the stories that we are watching this hour. a white house official has confirmed to us here that we see news that if ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy will meet with president biden in d.c. on tuesday. it comes as the white house is expected to do more outreach on capitol hill. to try to secure aid to ukraine after the senate failed to advance mr. biden's national security package. other news now. a. -- is among the six people dead after tornadoes ripped across tennessee yesterday. dozens more were injured across nashville and coxeville. mayor joe pits said it could take weeks for power to be fully restored. alex jones is back on x, formerly known as twitter, after having his account restored by elon musk himself. mask posted a poll asking if he should bring back jones's account. he made the move after 70% of voters responded in favor of it. i'm jessica layton. more ayman with ayman mohyeldin after this break. break ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ hi! need new glasses? 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[upbeat music] ♪♪ ♪♪ new pork carnitas. only at el pollo loco. house republicans are (♪♪) (♪♪) the new festive family meal. starting at $24. now celebrating at el pollo loco. planning for a vote next week that would authorize a biden impeachment inquiry. gop leaders are confident they have the votes i guess even as democrats and some republicans like knowledge this comes after searching for and never finding any incriminating evidence against the president. this week republican congressman, troy kneels, of texas laid bare his party's motivation for all of this. he told reporters, he wants to give the twice impeached trump, a bit of ammo to fight back if biden is also impeached. my all-star panel is back to discuss this. kurt, your response to the congressman's comments that he's pursuing a biden impeachment in order to give trump abdel, what does that tell us about the position of the republican party right now? >> they're saying the quiet part out loud. they're blasting it on a megaphone, they have new evidence, they have no evidence of barr doing, high crimes or misdemeanor from president biden. they have zero grounds to move this impeachment forward. but they're gonna do it anyway. they doing it for the politics of it. it's gonna backfire. it's a major mistake, you have a more public and majority, islam adorning the for all their bluster and top they're not doing anything for the people. they're not doing anything to prove the condition of anybody in this country, they're pursuing these witch hunts, these charades that are masquerading as battery already tv trying to get themselves on fox and raise money for maga. at the end of the day, i think it's gonna backfire tremendously people in this country what they care about is what are you doing for us, what are you doing to ease our life, our issues, our families. if their answer is, wow, we spent a whole bunch of time kicking our speaker out, spend more time finding line, now we're staring down a potential shutdown in january, we are going through political theater of impeaching the president for no actual reason. they're all gonna look like neurons. >> teresa, mike johnson, maga mi has undergone a recent shift on the biden impeachment inquiry. last month during a meeting -- johnson indicated that he believes there is insufficient evidence to initiate formal impeachment proceedings against biden. it doesn't seem to stop the inquiry that maybe launched this week. what changed over the last month? ? ? >> they want asymmetrical warfare. the best thing one can do when their top rated nominee for president's say, no longer impeachment but now multiple counts of fraud and questionable activity in front of the courts. it's a try to make sure that the ever guy is just as understanding, as questionable, that's what he's trying to do. he's trying to make sure that biden is at the same level as trump. and it's not the case. even the own republicans on record have been able to demonstrate and have been able to say on record that biden isn't under impeachment but hasn't done crimes and misdemeanors. for the individuals, the american people that aren't paying attention to the play by play, all they need to do is read the headline, and that's what they're basing on, it's a disservice because if you are truly a member of congress who believes and is sworn by the constitution your job at the end of the day is to speak for the country, not party. my hope is as this elongates, as this gets more media tension that you have some republicans that are able to say that this is absolutely nonsense. what gives me pause and gives me an idea that perhaps that is true, you are seeing so many republicans deciding not to run for reelection. and in that, it gives them the breath to tell the truth. >> will we get any clarity on what evidence this inquiry is based on. or are we gonna be here watching this theatrical performance with no transparency whatsoever? >> mike johnson is here to give the razzle-dazzle. this is not an evidence based investigation, never has been. to the point about mike johnson changing's mind, he knew we need to throw something to some red meat to the base after keeping the government open last month and these negotiations to keep it open during election year next year. he's following mccarthy's playbook and saying that impeachment, of, course we'll follow these paths wherever they may lead. and we did might not have evidence now but that's because we're not properly authorized to get all the evidence that we made. it's the exact same play they've been running in terms of investigations for decades now from watergate, under the clintons, to -- whatever this is under biden. they are trying to make it sound like there is something there. they're trying to hold together enough pieces to keep the people going, keep them on the hook, no, you are totally gonna have biden impeached before the election and we're gonna keep making you think that while not producing evidence. >> there was a new york times report that reported this week, the indictment of hunter biden may add momentum and help fuel republicans impeachment inquiry to the president. is the indictment of hunter biden actual helpful to republicans as they pursue this impeachment inquiry, are they good, are they gonna use it to their advantage, exploited, or does it backfire against them. you have james comer coming out saying, this is part of a cover-up against the president he was indicted not in pursuit -- they complained it wasn't strong enough. when the second indictment came out and was stronger, they said it's not good enough it's part of a cover-up? >> james comer is proving that he's nothing more than -- when it comes to investigation evidence, the truth, the fact, of transparency. i worked at the oversight committee for a long time, i know what i'm talking about here. i can tell you, you don't go out there, make pronouncements and go back behind closed doors and say, okay guys, let's find some evidence to back up what i just said publicly. that's completely backward, they have yet to produce a single piece of paper, a single document, a single testimony that ties president joe biden to anything involving hunter biden, anything criminal, anything illegal, anything unethical. they have nothing. their own witnesses that they've had hearings have said flat out, yes, the threshold for impeachment has not been met, republicans own witnesses haven't been able to back their own story out. here we are yet again playing the same -- hunter biden a private citizen got in government, doesn't appear on ballots, before or future, is the center of an investigation that's about the president of the united states, it doesn't add up. >> all the while, no questions about what jared kushner, ivanka trump did while they were in office or how they use their positions and office to seek lucrative deals once leaving office. maria teresa, the resolution is -- on tuesday morning. that's just two days before the chambers last day in session this year. what does that say about the priorities of the republican party? >> they know the calendar short, they know the majority of their constituency meaning the members in this case want to go home and shut it down. ayman, you answered your own question, it isn't a priority it's all fabrics. this is all the headlines, it's all something that could be quick, spread to social media, and this is where the democrats really need to be smarter. they need to hold every single person into account and they need to speak the truth, at the end of the day people need to understand what is happening, they try to stick something to the president that is not true, to chris's point, they are happy -- their own members have said, there's nothing there when it comes to trying to impeach the president. they have no material evidence. as a result, or trying to run down and they're trying to make trump's case as strong as possible. but trump's case is in the demise of democracy. if we care about our freedoms, our rights, regardless of what party you believe in, you need to believe into democracy. that's what allows us to be strong, it allows us to create a pathway for our children. it allows us to be the moral indicators for the world. and right now so many people are questioning, do we have that wherewithal. at the end of the day, we need to ensure we do and it's gonna be -- both republican and independents and democrats to demonstrate that. it's not just for ourselves, but for the rest of the world. >> maria tammy's a kumar, thank you for your time, kurt hayes, stick around with a lot more to discuss with you later in this hour. up next, the families of hamas hostages and the recently frayed have a chaotic meeting with israeli prime minister netanyahu, stay with us. tay with us. >> [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ way back in 1982 we took care of about forty kids onand had to turn away over two hundred and fifty. it's the emotion of that moment that said man that just isn't fair, and i think it was at that moment that operation smile was born. every three minutes a child is born with a cleft condition. thousands are waiting for the cleft surgery and care your support gives. they need you. give joy and a new smile. scan the code or go online to give today. i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. [sniff] still fresh. ♪♪ get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection. try for under $5! when general austin's had, you can win the battle but lose the war, israel is losing the war in terms of how the world is looking at this situation. i think that it would be irresponsible for the united states to give netanyahu another ten billion dollars to continue to wage this awful war. >> that's senator bernie sanders describing the position of many progressives in this country and abroad. the israeli government is losing the support of some of its own people over their handling of the israel hamas war. particularly, the hostage pricing. according to the israeli government, 138 hostages are being held. this week we learned of a meeting between hostages families, prime minister netanyahu, and the war cabinet. recordings of the meeting or lead to multiple media outlets and have been verified by nbc news. listen to what one unidentified released hostage had to say. >> it's political but [inaudible] [inaudible] >> according to reporting, i kept of the meeting said quote, we were in tunnels, terrified it would not be hamas, but israel, that would kill us, and then they would say hamas killed you. in a statement issued after the meeting, netanyahu said that they're working to bring home the hostages, polling shows the prime minister is losing favor with israelis. many blame him for failing to protect israel from hamas's assault on october the 7th. earlier i spoke with israeli historian of priests historian about this and much more. he served in the israeli military during the 1973 arab israeli war, and has become a critic of the state. >> professor, thank you so much for making time for us today. we are two months since the attack of october 7th, israel's war on gaza, as a historian, how do you view the moment that we are in today and how we got here? >> it's great to be with you. i think this is a continuation of the history of modern israel and palestine, it's a horrific chapter in that history but it's continuation of the clash between israel and the palestinians and the problem that israel has with millions of palestinians who do not want to be oppressed or occupied, or colonize. and therefore they resist. this has not been solved in the last 75 years. this is just another round between the state, the people that are not willing to be under rule, whether under siege in gaza or occupation in the west bank, or even in second rate citizens in the state of israel. >> you wrote in the past, you mentioned in the past, the interview that the aim has been to have as many of palestine without palestinians as possible. did you see what's happening here in gaza continuing of that objective from an israeli perspective? >> yes, ironically, the whole idea was to create not only a jewish state but a democratic state, the jews had always to be an absolute majority otherwise they cannot have a democracy. the means of ensuring a jewish majority is by downsizing the number of palestinians, or disallowing palestinians to be full citizens. and this ethnic cleansing, which was attempted in 1948, is one of the millions to make sure that the palestinians are not part of the citizenship of the jewish state. i'm afraid that the horrible attack by hamas on the sins of october is used as a pretext to downsize the one piece of historical palestine that really causes the israeli haddix. they cannot incorporate the palestinians and citizens, they don't know how to maintain the siege, the ghetto of gaza, they hope that this war allows them and gives them the opportunity to get rid of a large number of palestinians either by transferring them to egypt, if egypt won't allow that, then to other places in the world. >> you mentioned that hamas and some politicians are saying, both here in israel, that they do not know how there can be any kind of permanent cease-fire, or some kind of agreement with palestinians so long as hamas exists because they consistently say, they've said since october 7th, they want to destroy israel, they want to attack israel, and repeat october 7th again, and again, and again. what is your take on the? >> i do remember that the israelis said about the antifada, the most secular movement was in control rather than how mass. the same thing was sad about -- an israel was willing to try the work, but was willing to try and negotiate the peace in 1993. i think israel has the capacity by the way to eliminate the military power of the hamas in gaza. they had no way of stating that hamas of the palestinian political system. how mass is an ideological movement that has supported the palestinians and will continue to support the palestinians. if you want to negotiate with the palestinians and a new arrangement of peace, a solution, and it will have to conclude all the major palestinian forces, political forces, including a mass. i don't think this is a realistic position unless israel is interested in bringing aid to that 100-year conflict that is stirring the country down. >> people in this leadership, this israeli current israeli leadership is willing to do that, or look towards that as a possible solution? how do you view the current leadership of israel? >> the current leadership does not have a vision. they have a tactic, that's why i don't think they're ready to do that. they really believe they have the military power to impose israeli rule, either directly, in some part of the west bank are indirectly as they hope to do both in gaza and other parts of the west bank. i'm very worried about this position because it means that israel in the 24 sundry views its future as in a constant state of war. and that state of war if it's only with the palestinian -- military power to win, military terms. but it is always a danger that this will deteriorate into the regional war. at this is really a very pessimistic way of looking at the future. afraid the mindset of the president's really government is that's the only option open to them. and what's really can change that is all this international community, the united states, and the pressure israel to have a different view about the future. but without this pressure i'm afraid that israel is going to be in a constant state of war with the palestinians, with a great danger of this war becoming a regional one. >> you mentioned the international community, specifically the role of the united states on friday the u.s. became the only country as you know to veto a resolution calling for a cease-fire. beyond the immediate short term action that the u.s. can do to bring an end to this war, do you believe the u.s. can actually play a role between israel and the palestinians. what should the role the u.s. international community be to bring an end to this conflict? >> i think the u.s. unfortunately lost possession -- i don't think it can play anymore the role of the mediator. when it can play and should play is the role that teams israel, restricts it, limits it. first and foremost, bring an end to the destruction of gaza as you know the number of dead is -- and according to the israelis, they need another month of the same warfare which pieces in number could be doubled. the role of the u.s. and they have the option, stop that, later on i think the u.s. can be part of an international group of states that would help to mediate a solution. but you can't be any more exclusive mediator as it tries to be in the last 20 or so years. and it was quite a failure if you look at it from a historical perspective. >> professor ilan pappe, thank you so much for your time, i appreciate your insight as always. we appreciate it. we'll be right back after a quick break. quick break. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your healthcare provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your healthcare provider. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. no matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. talk to your healthcare provider today. when you have chronic kidney disease... ...there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis. ♪far-xi-ga♪ farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. when you have chronic kidney disease, it's time to ask your doctor for farxiga. because there are places you want to be. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪far-xi-ga♪ this week, taylor swift was named times 20 23% of the year. and for those of us normal people on earth, the megastar with a billion dollars in ticket sales for a single tour can be given this title for the impact she's had. but on earth to, right-wing commentator, jack vista village said, the taylor sucked girlboss -- has been activated to the upcoming 2024 voter operation for democrats on abortion rights. he read that correctly. a former trump immigration advisor, stephen miller, wanted to weigh in as well. he added, what's happening with taylor swift is not organic. you heard it from republicans first, folks, if trump loses in 2024 it is because of the magnetism of none other than taylor swift. he never stood a chance against her. kurt bardella, hayes brown, are back with me to discuss. i didn't think we'd be having a conversation it wasn't on my bingo -- about taylor swift election conspiracy theory. but here we are at the end of the year, republicans batting it around. >> yeah, that is where we are somehow, i'm as shocked as you are. they're still upset that trump never made time people of the year, i'm not sure with this conspiracy theory is about except for the fact that there are so afraid of the power of what girls and women are into, that's the only vibes i'm getting off of this. it's we're terrified of the things that women, girls fine popular so clearly it must be some sort of saigon to manipulate the public, you know there is no way that taylor swift's missed popular on her own. >> yeah,, exactly like who did she speak to, a large segment of the population that could turn out to vote. and that's what they're worried about. kurt, could you have predicted this mutation of the 2024 rigged election claims? >> i mean they keep taking it to a whole new level. honestly, they're playing with fire, if there's one person that you don't want to get into any kind of pr war with, it's taylor swift. she's a communication market genius, savant, there's no one like her on the face of this planet. and if republicans want to keep talking about her, mouthing off about her, attacking her, i don't think they appreciate the mobility and the velocity of the swift army. they will come for you, it's one of the most powerful, organic, organizing communities on the face of the earth, but they've done to propel her tour and the release of the tour to a movie theater, it's a billion dollar status, wyatt won a poke that bear unless you want to get slacked in november. >> interesting point hayes, -- a political pick four times person of the year. do you agree with that, is a connection to politics really getting overblown by the far-right? >> yes, and no. let's not forget, back in 2016, taylor swift was seen as an icon amongst the weirdo, all right, white supremacy gurley is out there, they were like, she's one of us. and because she was styling at the time they were allowed to have this idea as the their nordic princess wearily it out. when she started speaking out and for example they showed in -- the tour before this. in 2018 she endorsed marsha blackburn in tennessee in the senate, the bubble was popped, they've never forgiven taylor swift, they think she should be on their side and the fact that she's not is paying high to the problem. >> you can tell between the three of us that were not hard-core swifties if we don't know the name of ever tore, all of she has dropped. >> i think it was the reputation to or. >> reputation tour. >> wow, i'm impressed her. it just earned swiftie status my friend. >> i have this other life in country music, i've been to both shows the reputation to war and the areas to our, man. >> mad respect for you. but i do want to pick up on the point that, hayes brought up. is her impact on elections which is the real issue. you have commentators connecting taylor swift -- abortion rights after she encouraged her fans to vote in local elections. what's your take on this, should democrats tried to tap into her potential? >> i think that democrats should stay the hell away from taylor, republicans should stay the hell away from taylor for the real good. taylor's gonna do what taylor's gonna do, she put out a post on social media and sat, register to vote, she got 50,000 people to do that. the connection with her fans, young women and girls, teenage girls, is incredibly strong. it's moving, it's bigger than politics, it's about community, autonomy, independents, it's about power. just as she did with her own masters, re-recording her masters after they were sold off from under her by her former music label, she created this new art from her old music and making it incredibly successful on the charts and profitable. she is the blueprint for the modern-day women coming of age, how to take the power back for male dominated power structures. taylor's gonna do what she's gonna do. if democrats are smart, the let -- and then sit back and reap the benefits. >> we may be designating you as our official swift, taylor swift correspondent on the show. i would be surprised, did you apply for that position when it came up a couple weeks ago, the position came up on usa today, did you apply for it? >> i'm not qualified for that unfortunately. i would take it if they gave it to me. >> we appreciate it, you can have that title on the show whenever we discuss taylor swift. -- kurt bardella, hayes brown, great to have you on the show tonight. we'll be right back. be right back. but this is my story. 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(dog bark) it's just smarter, healthier pet food. it's amazing what real food can do. ♪ unnecessary action hero! ♪ -missing punches? it-unnecessary!er, h-check reversals?. -unnecessary! -time sheet corrections? -unnecessary! -unentered sick time? -unnecessary! -go! -unnecessary! -go! -unnecessary! -when you can take this phone, you'll be ready. -make the unnecessary, unnecessary. let your employees do their own payroll. here we go. can we land? you're old enough to do it in the sky now. but it's gross. there is no way we're landing. are you sure no one is watching? gwen mallard! do it now, or we leave without you. ok. a quick programming note. coming up next, msnbc films presents a presentation of the recall, re-framed, the eye-opening documentary explores the aftermath of the controversial sentencing of stanford's winner brock turner. the removal of california judge erin -- and the role of the criminal legal system in seeking justice for sexual assault victims. here is a quick preview. >> all of the drama of the human experience, is played out in a courtroom >> i absolutely think that white privilege informed the brock turner case it's time to take a stand, we've got to fight for a world without rape. >> we needed judges that understand sexual assault and domestic violence. judge persky does not. >> when a fire is started, a lot of things are going to get burned. >> seeking harsh sentences within our mass incarceration system, is just a poor way to try to bend the moral arc towards justice. >> watch the recall refrain, next on msnbc. it is also streaming now on peacock. and thank you for making time, first make sure to catch a man back here on msnbc saturdays at eight, sundays at nine, and follow us on x and instagram at eamon msnbc. until we meet again, i'm ayman mohyeldin in new york, have a. goodnight ave a. goodnigh have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ the power goes out, and we still have wifi to do our homework. only pay for what you need. and that's a good thing? great in my book. who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up. plus, now through december 31st, eligible xfinity rewards members can get 25% off a storm ready wifi device. 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