a very good day to all of you from msnbc world quarters here in new york. welcome everyone to alex witt reports. we begin with some breaking news. a dramatic turn in a texas abortion case. the state supreme court now stepping into pause a lower court ruling effectively preventing kate cox from having an abortion. her baby is unlikely to survive the pregnancy. i'm gonna be talking to a legal expert in just minutes about what this all means. also this hour, president biden is on the west coast. he and the first lady will be in california for fundraising events tonight. before that he stopped in las vegas to highlight a major infrastructure success. >> we are building the first high speed rail project in our nation's history. part of a 2.8 billion dollar investment. ten major rail projects across america. reaching tens of millions of people. >> also new today, outgoing congressman kevin mccarthy is now endorsing donald trump for president, saying he is open to serving in trump's cabinet. >> i will support the president, i will support president trump. >> would you billing to serve the trump cabinet? >> in the right position. look, if i'm the best person for the job, yes. i worked with president trump on a lot of policies. we worked together to win the majority. we also have a relationship where we are very honest with one another. >> meanwhile, a late ruling from the federal appeals court that upholds but narrows the gag order in trump's d.c. election interference case. and a trump pack paid about $900,000 for expert witness testimony in new york civil fraud trial. trump will be taking the witness stand there on monday. we will begin this hour with that big trump trial news. joining us in the studio former federal prosecutor kristy greenberg, hugo lowell federal prosecutor lawyer for the guardian. you go, let me start with you here. what do we know about this expert witness in this particular case? $900, 000, nearly, paid? what is he testifying about, and why was it worth that much? >> he is billing at an extremely high rates -- >> i guess! >> trump testimony is definitely build higher than deposition tone, yet it is an extraordinary number. although trump did get what he wanted. this professor got on the stand said, well, the financial statements war materially misstated. there were some errors, that was just an inadvertent error. i think trump got the testimony that he, effectively, paid for. >> okay. i think about 650 hours he claimed that he spent on this, mr. barr toffee. said it was equivalent to, what? three months of a 50 hour work week the whole thing is quite an storden airy. is it common practice for a defense witness to be paid this handsomely? maybe they charge more, to hugo's point, but this much? >> it is interesting. he says he spent 650 hours on this. you wonder what he is actually looking at over that time. to be fair, in comparison, the prosecution witness was paid about four and 50,000. he has been paid more than double. clearly, like hugo said, he is getting what he paid for. he is someone who's going to come out and say, there is no fraud. something like the size of the apartment, it is ridiculous. triple the size. well, that is an inadvertent error? >> here is the other thing to think about, that much money! is it going to undermine its credibility at all? you were paid and, dot, dot, dot. >> 100%. this is a bench trial. you have a judge here, not a jury. the judge is smart. he understands what was happening here. he was paid a handsome sum and he said what trump wanted him to say. pointing to 70 different examples with, well, there is no such thing as and objective valuation. this is our, not science. no, it is matt! you realize profits on seven homes, zero were built. tripling the size of an apartment. looking at mar-a-lago they are valuing it as selling a private residence when really the d says it is only a social club. these are objective facts, that is fraud. that is not an inadvertent mistake. they got an expert, they paid him a lot to be a to say something that i think quite a lot of experts would not have been prepared to say. >> what are you expecting monday when donald trump takes the stand? what was he say? how combative might this get? >> who knows? last crime trump was on the stand, we had a trump infomercial. he was talking about his properties. how he may or may not have built one property. he said that is why we bacon on realize value. but this is not how accounting works. it'll be interesting to see whether he incriminates himself, or his businesses, further with speech this argument, frankly. or whether he will say more problematic things. it is only the bit of a lottery with trump. >> he also has cross-examination. what do you expect in that? how testy might that get? when you think about it, what would you want to ask him? >> oh, that is a great question! i think much of his testimony, he is now a defense witness. i do not expect when his own attorneys are questioning him to be as combative. i think it is going to be a lot of the salesmanship and a lot of reiterating the things that this expert was saying. trump was in the room for that expert because he wanted media coverage about that expert was saying. you're gonna say, just like you heard my experts say, there was no fraud here. just like you heard my experts say. we will go through a lot of that. i think there will be some cross but, again, they have already questioned him. whether or not they were really go through a detailed crosser or whether or not they will cut their losses and say, the judge gets it, it is clear he is with us. the judge is getting a lot of latitude with these experts talking about things that are well beyond the scope of what their expert he threw the is. he doesn't want to be overturned an appeal. the judge has said that. if you think it from a legal perspective they don't need to really do that much on cross. we will see what they do. >> let me get to the bombshell report that you just released. i want to make sure i get all the details right. you are revealing that georgia prosecuted predicting jail sentences for these defendants in the trump 2020 election case. that you had access to.e emai written two defense lawyers last month. fulton county d.a., fani willis, said long after these folks are in jail we will still be practicing law. how do defense attorneys react to this? >> i don't think they were particularly pleased. i thought they were presumptuous. a month from a potential date, the d.a.'s office seems to believe that they will win and there will be jail terms. it's not even clear that there will be jail terms in this case. not least because of georgia's first-time offender law. we have seen people who have pleaded guilty and plea deals already. i think they are also upset because seeing through the lens of plead ill. they have seen multiple people be offered, or be in negotiations for plea deals. when they see talk about potential jail sentences or the implication of jail i think the defense lawyer saw that as pressure, inappropriate pressure on them -- >> i just want to double check. there has been no talk of plea deals for donald trump, mark meadows, and others, correct? some of the top echelon? >> someone reported the three main targets in this investigation, at least for now, it would be trump, meadow, and giuliani. they are drawn the line. there these three are at the top of the conspiracy pyramid. not people we are willing to entertain. for everyone else we understand that there have been discussions. >> that brings me to you. do you think that this was put out there? this could be interpreted as we are looking for plea deals other than those top three that he'd go just went through. is that something you think they are saying? look, this is what is gonna happen to you now. you might as well try to work with us. >> it is an odd way to do it if that is what they are trying to do. put something like that in writing to a normal email discourse with a defense council with discovery according to hugo's great reporting there the speech was whether or not a complete transcript from what rudy giuliani was produced. it was unclear necessarily how we got from routine discovery, we will be producing at the next time, two people are going to jail. we will still be practicing law. >> if not intentional, could be interpreted that way? >> certainly she has been very tough. d.a. willis has been very tough. any suggestion there is about how to do her job, any questioning of how she's doing her job. we have seen that when she has fielding congressional requests. she responds -- she is not going to pull her punches. she is very tough in response. i don't know how much of a tactic it is. what the evidence is the evidence. she can talk all she wants. they will have the discovery. they will consider their defenses. they see how strong a case they really have. trump and the top guys are going to trial no matter what. >> could they go to jail based on what you read in that? do you think that is a goal? those top three, i'm talking about. >> they certainly could. the charges are incredibly serious for those top three. these are r.i.c.o. charges. they carry significant jail time. again, i think when you are in the day today as a prosecutor going through routine discovery disputes, you can have defeats with defense counsel all the time. not sure why we are talking about jail time in the course of those discussions. again, i have not seen those emails but it would not be a routine thing, necessarily, for a prosecutor. >> excellent reporting as always, hugo. great analysis as well, kristie. you were gonna stick around. i have a little bit more to ask you about. particularly the situation with this woman in texas. we'll be talking with that in the moment. for all of you later this hour we will talk about trump to point out and what might already be in the works. former trump white house deputy press secretary, sarah matthews, gives us her take on that and something specific liz cheney said this week. this breaking overnight, a major development in that closely watched abortion case in texas. state supreme court laid -- blocking a pregnant women from getting the procedure. doctors say the baby has a fatal condition. the mother's health is at risk. >> we are going through the loss of a child. there is no outcome here where i take home my healthy baby girl, you know? it is hard. >> and heartbreaking, obviously. let's go to nbc's julia tsirkin following the story for us. juliet, welcome. we heard yesterday that this woman was granted permission to get the abortion. what happened overnight? >> granted permission by a lower court. the judge siding with cox and her lawyers who made the case that she qualifies for texas is-limited exceptions when it comes to life of the mother. cox says that her mother told her that she could experience life-threatening complications. complications that could lead to the mother of several children unable to have more children in the future. something she told our colleague, laura jarred, something she desperately wants. the supreme court overnight blocked a lower court decision. that was a state supreme court. after the state attorney general, ken paxton, filed a petition. he said that cox has not proven that any of her complications are a result of this fetal abnormality in her baby, the 20-week-old pregnancy. she's carrying the child the doctors have said will likely die just within a few days. here is more of what cake cox had to say about this. watch. >> i think forcing me to continue the pregnancy, the pain and suffering, the risks of continuing the pregnancy the risk of childbirth again especially given how my last to when i think it is cruel. >> you can see the emotion in her voice just how painful this is. the next steps here are the supreme court and the state of texas are going to hear arguments. they are going to hear other considerations in this case. the pathway for to cox get this abortion that she needs, that her doctor says she needs, is not over but it will be challenging. of course, every day that goes by cox faces more and more complications. she says she has already been to the emergency room four times in the last couple of weeks. she suffers from amniotic fluid leaking which, of course, is a very dangerous condition. the clock is ticking for this woman who running out of time. >> absolutely. thank you, julie. we will bring back former federal prosecutor kristy greenberg to get more insight on this. -- >> we need more medical proof about this pregnancy and that it could be harmful to a baby. no mention, by the way, of her potentially being left infertile for the rest of her life. that doesn't matter to him at all. the question is, are we looking for more proof of what? i mean, this is in the legal round. the doctors have already said this. >> the standard for texas, they are looking for is their immediate and irreparable injury to the mother. the state of texas's position at this stage was forcing a woman to carry to term a pregnancy where you know that baby is going to die, that is not an irreparable injury to her. knowing that, again, there is not an irreparable and injury to the woman when you tell her, this will cause her to never be able to have children again? it is -- >> it is unbearable! >> it is beyond cruel. it is dangerous, dangerous, rhetoric for the state of texas to be involved in what our personal decisions between her, her family, her doctor. how dare they! >> trina pointed out, she is 20 weeks pregnant. she does not have a lot of time before that could pose not only serious complications for her medically but, obviously, the emotional disruption to her life. we saw part of that they're in evidence. how long is going to take to get settled? >> it is already being appealed now. we will see how long it takes to go through the court system. this is the kind of case, it is such an extreme example. this would've been an example where they could've said, okay. yes. we have these very strict bands but we are prepared to be reasonable when the circumstances require it. the state of texas wasn't even willing to do that. this is something that could go to the supreme court. but the question is, how long will that take? if they don't want to answer this particular question, by that point it will be moot because she will have already had the child. one will hope that the justice system will not delay in circumstances like this. i have no confidence of that. >> here is the thing, texas does allow certain exceptions, right? >> right! >> i'm curious if this will, long term, how to define those exceptions better. it seems very, very, vague what qualifies as an exception. >> risk to the mother's life. this seems like it should certainly qualify in that exception. there's also an exception for fatal, fetal,. i'm not sure why that wouldn't be the case here. what more do you need? in every case like this, is they're going to need to be a hearing? a doctor or someone else comes in and explains what the medical need is. is that where we are headed here? the threat from ken paxton, any hospital that performs its procedure -- >> that's right. which doctor is going to want to take this on? >> they can not only be sued by the state of texas by any private assistance and in texas. it is vigilante justice at this point if the woman who's suffering. >> this is something we're gonna talk about with you, i'm sure, again. we will also talk about this with wendy davis in our next hour. looking forward to that. thank you in the meantime. coming up for all of you up next in the big what if. it is the topic of the latest issue of the atlantic. i have a supersmart guest joining me to talk about this piece. trump voters are america, too. we'll be back in 60 seconds. in 60 seconds. 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(avo) this holiday turn any samsung phone, in any condition, into a galaxy s23+ on us. and now add netflix and max to your plan for just $10 a month. save big this holiday. only on verizon. meet the traveling trio. the thrill seeker. the soul searcher. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. now to an entire issue of the atlantic magazine titled, if trump wins. dedicated to new warnings in the event of a potential second trump presidency. my next guest writes, quote, trump voters are america too. adding, if trump wins a second term perhaps we will finally dispense with the myths that, this is not who we are. the author mark leave it is joining us now. atlantic staff writer and political contributor, a good friend to us. nice to have you here. although a sense it will be super sobering. your article, mark, runs through several public figures invoking the words, this is not who we are, after egregious behavior from trump. when you consider that he received 74 million votes in 2020, what does that say about who we are as americans? >> i think it's that this is who a lot of us is. it is not necessarily a popular critical mass but it is certainly an electoral college critical mass. or certainly very close. what i wanted to do with the story's use, reintroduce some reality into the rhetoric, usually from the left, that is some kind of scold, or some kind of affirmation. yes, this is not really a. this is a one-off. trump is something that was a onetime expression of anger from the electorate in 2016. look democrats have done pretty well at the ballot box since then. they won in 2021 thing the democrats overlooked about 2020 is that maybe they were too relieved to notice that trump, as you said, got 74 million votes. it's a lot of votes. he is polling well against biden this time. i think it might be time to take some hard reality, look at some hard truth about what this electorate is and who the countries. euro, a huge amount of support especially after such an ordeal of a presidency. e very fine people on both sides, the perfect phone call, the bleach, the daily omg and wtf of it all. you know what, mark? let's together do a quick flash back here. watch this, everyone. i have to put up with adam schiff, and absolutely perfect phone call into the new president of ukraine. that was a perfect call. >> and i say the disinfectant knocks it out in a minute, one minute. is there a way we can do something like that? by injection, inside or, almost a cleaning? >> excuse me, excuse me, you had some very bad people in that group. you also have people that were very fine people, on both sides. >> i mean, there is so much more we could've pulled. however, apologies to anyone with political ptsd. how do you explain the unflinching loyalty of trump supporters? will his role in the january 6th attack have a positive or negative impact on the level of support that he may get? >> the fact is he has survived, politically, january 6th. at least within his party. i assume there are some republicans who have reached their moment of no return but they may be looking for an off ramp but not enough did. i think a lot of people in the blue america bubble do not recognize or fully appreciate the degree that donald trump and his media allies have been successful in engaging in. in helping their supporters see all of this as a positive. it is a very sky's green moment for us. again, the bifurcation of america is not a new idea but i don't think it has ever been as extreme. that is one thing that we need to really keep reminding ourselves as we enter into election season. it will be as ous as ever. >> axios has elusive report, mark, on how trump would build at they are calling his loyalty first cabinet. on the agenda jalen critics and journalists, putting immigrants in camps, and using the military to target drug cartels in mexico or crackdown on protesters at home. the trump campaign responded to this article by asking allies to stop speculating about trump 's second term. but mark, are trump supporters gravitating to the strong main image that he is pushing now? does a more extreme agenda putting him closer to securing all 74 million of the same votes in 2024? >> it would seem so a lot of his supporters see that and they see strength. more to the point they see an example of someone getting even with bare, perceived, enemies. i think people underestimate the degree to which trump and his supporters have such incredible contempt for people on the coast, people in the media, people in academia. the, so-called, elites, right? i think it works both ways. the camp and the contempt goes in both directions. but we assume in some ways that it is in one direction, again, the bubbles we reside in only reinforce our own views. i don't see any of this costing him any support from within his hard-core base. >> this is extraordinary. is it unprecedented for the atlantic to put out an issue warning against one presidential candidate? has this ever happened before? light of the editors they believe it is that important? >> it is not unprecedented. the national review, a very conservative outlet did the same thing, the case against trump in 2016. in recent weeks the new york times, the washington post have had versions of this. laid it out pretty starkly. again, i think a lot of fox news viewers, a lot of donald trump supporters are not regular readers of the atlantic and a lot of these other publication, they did not watch a lot of msnbc. still, i think we underestimate the degree to which they see this is all bad. they see donald trump and someone who is on their side. someone who fights for their beliefs, no matter what the results might say. what the press might say in the other direction. again, it is a bit of a memory hole but also a bit of a warping of how we see each other. it is certainly anything but a united states at this point. >> given the fact you cover trump's 2016 campaign. he wrote the book, thank you for your servitude. how he transformed the republican party. what is your biggest fear about the prospect of former years of trump in the white house? >> oh boy. look, it is obviously unpredictable but it is stark. i think what, to me, the biggest fear is is we think we have an example. okay, we survived for years. as tumultuous as it was. but what people need to realize, and what was laid out in the issue, this is a president who will be completely unburdened by any checks and balances whatsoever. he has ardently blatantly disregarded the wishes of congress, the wishes of the courts, tried to at least. even the fear of reelection doesn't seem to matter to him much because having been elected again in 2024, theoretically, he will not have any fear of any kind of political fallout. he will feel so empowered. it is a scary thing to think about. that is the view of a lot of people have been around a man who were around him in the white house. if you look at how he came off to the people who watched most closely, they are often the people who are most alarmed, although not all of them always speak out. >> i said this would be sobering. anyway, my friend, thanks very much. >> have a great day! >> thank you. if you are not seeing it already it is likely to see unwell. a wild situation happening across the country, up next. he country, up next. for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. we have this breaking news. we are in for a weekend of wild weather across much of the country. snow, rain, and severe storms expected for tens of millions of people. starting down south, tomorrow the east coast will be getting soaked. here is a live look at houston which is getting hit with a major cold front. temperatures dropping about 20 degrees between today and tomorrow. it is not just the south. take a look at this close call on an icy highway north of salt lake city utah. when a van slip out of control, nearly hitting a state trooper. thankfully, no one was hurt on that one. let's go to nbc's priscilla thompson tracking the weather across the country for us. she's joining us from jackson, mississippi. welcome priscilla! how are things looking right there? you've got short sleeves on so it's kind of warm? >> well, alex, it is warm. the sun was out earlier. it is looking pretty good here for now but that is going to change heading into the afternoon and the evening at the severe storms move throughout the south. we are expecting damaging wind gust, potentially golf ball-sized hail and the possibility of a tornado or two. that will be impacting lots of places across the south from kentucky to texas. some 13 million people at risk for the severe weather in places like memphis, nashville, little rock, in birmingham. as you mentioned it is coming as parts, cities, west are digging out from massive snowfall. parts of utah saw 33 inches over the past several days. it did cause a lot of havoc on the roads including that dramatic video you showed of this state trooper just narrowly missing that van as it slid into their lane. unfortunately there was also an 18 car pileup in colorado. certainly some safety concerns. thankfully, no deaths that we have seen reported. which is good news. as you mentioned, as well, those severe weather issues are heading to the east. 40 million people under flood alerts from d.c. to maine starting tomorrow. alex? >> okay, priscilla. thank you so much for the heads up. we will get our galoshes, umbrellas, everything we need ready. thank. you in our next hour, kevin mccarthy has two big announcements. the first might not even a surprise but the second, that might be! earning on that éclair. don't touch it, don't touch it yet. let me get the big one. nope. -this one? -nope. -this one? -yes. no. what? the big one. they're all the same size. wait! lemme get 'em all. i'm gonna get 'em all! earn big with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. is this for me? if you like squeaky toys from chewy it is. did i get anything this year? get up to 40% off gifts that bring the most joy at chewy. i'm still going to eat your socks. no, you're not. get great deals on gifts that deliver excitement at chewy. - i got the cabin for three days. it's gonna be sweet! chase. what? i'm 12 hours short. - have a fun weekend. - ♪ unnecessary action hero! unnecessary. ♪ - was that necessary? 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>> reporter: of course, alex. it is good to be with you. we are here in the center of tel aviv that has turned into a place remembering those who were addicted to hamas in that terror attack. they're hundreds of people here for an event tonight. i will have you walk with me for a second. it is possible that we may hear from some of the released hostages, possibly on video screen set up here. let me show you this powerful image. it is a table that has been set up. essentially a shabbat table with places and seats to honor those people who are not here. those who were abducted by hamas. the people that israel is fighting to try to bring home, essentially. all of this coming after another day of israeli attacks in the gaza strip. attacks in the gaza stri p. >> reporter: israel's relentless and its attacks in gaza. the israeli military saying that this body cam footage, not verified by nbc news, shows fighting at a school compound there. further north the idf says new video shows militants operating from a different school. now, new warning from the united nations secretary general that gaza is on the brink of a total humanitarian collapse. >> more than 100 of my colleagues have already been killed, many with their families. they take their children with them to work for they know that they will live and die together. >> the security council vote calling for an immediate cease-fire blocked by the u.s.. >> we do not support this resolutions call for an unsustainable cease-fire that will only plant the seed for the next war. >> the fighting intensifying in both the north of gaza and the south. now no longer safe for the hundreds of thousands initially told to evacuate their. this hospital packed, so our camps like these. at one this woman tells us her children live in fear and terror. they are begging for chickens, she says. we can barely get water. -- the world food program assessing the grim reality in gaza. saying most families have gone 24 hours with nothing to eat at all. >> many of the people i spoke to and matt have not named for days. it is an increasingly desperate situation. >> reporter: how much longer can this current situation last, do you believe? >> frankly, i do not know. what i can say is the humanitarian system is not a breaking point. system is not a breaking point >> reporter: back here in tel aviv, alex. it is possible that at some point tonight we could hear reference to the man that you mentioned earlier, 25-year-old saar baruch who is believed to have been killed. the -- kibbutz where he lived, in conjunction with his family announcing that earlier today. hamas claims he was killed in an as israeli raid to try to as you hostages. the idf says it did conduct a raid to try to free some of those abducted. what is not clear if whether that is the same range, if we are talking about the same thing here. it is all an indication of just how emotional this have been for so many people in the region. we look around to see people letting candles. it is, of course, the third night of hanukkah here. alex, back to you. >> with absolutely nothing to celebrate. okay, ali jackson from tel aviv. the chilling new report about what could happen if the former president is reelected. instead of america first, we will see loyalty first. what else could happen? 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(♪♪) cascade platinum plus. dare to dish differently. ♪ shelves. shelves that know what taste buds want. shelves smart enough to see, sense, react, restock. ♪ so caramel swirl is always there for the taking. liz cheney's book tour is paying off big time. her new book, oath and honor, a memorandum warning released this week quickly topped bestseller list and sold out on amazon. now she is making the rounds, raising the alarm on what a second trump presidency might bring. >> the threat is this is a man that we don't have to guess what he would do. in some ways, the extreme nature of the claims that he is making, the lies that he is telling, calling for general milley to be executed, those things are so extreme it's sometimes what happens in our body politic people ignore it. people say, well, that's just him. i think the challenge we are facing now is clearly understanding and recognizing that he means what he says. >> joining me now is sara tilley, former trump press secretary -- you know liz cheney. what do you make of her warnings of trump's threat. >> i think it is really easy for the american people to hear these mornings, for them to think that it sounds alarmist. in reality it is anything but that. i think liz cheney makes a great point. what we really need to be paying attention is to what trump is actually saying. i do think that we have become a little desensitized to the things that he says. they have always been a little crazy, or bombastic. his rhetoric has really changed ever since he lost the 2020 election. i think something in him broke. his grasp on reality has not been there. he has been saying things, calling for the execution of milley. he says he wants to do away with parts of the constitution. he wants to rig this country of people that he sees as vermin. i think those kinds of things are really concerning. that is what a second trump presidency would look like. it would be solely focused on retribution and enacting revenge on people that he sees as his enemy. >> axios is reporting the opposite of seeking revenge because he will have trump loyalist likely to get cabinet positions if he were to return to the white house. the trump campaign is pushing back with a memo asking allies to stop pushing on what a future trump presidency could look like. but the loyalty of his first advisors in his first go around, i'm wondering about what you could tell us about these players when you are there. >> i found it really funny that the trump campaign is trying to tell their allies to stop talking about their plans. because they don't want it out there for the american people to be aware of. i think that these people are yes men. they are folks who would not push back on trump's worst instincts. i think that we avoided a lot of crises during the first trump administration because he was surrounded by people who are willing to tell him now. some of these folks like stephen miller, kash patel, steve bannon. that is really the scary to think about them holding high level positions in our government. i think a lot of people have said, well, for some of the cabinet positions trump would not be able to put the most loyal people to him in those positions because they have to be senate confirmed. i would like to remind people that we often saw in the first trump administration that he had a go around for this. he would put people in there to serve as acting cabinet secretary members. that is a way in which i think he would get around that. if he wanted to put some of the most extreme people in these kinds of high-level positions, he would put them as an acting secretary. just rotate them out if he needed to. that is, probably, my biggest concern over a second trump administration. who he would be surrounded by. i think these people who started pushing back on his worst instincts, now these would encourage him. >> a good reminder. putting people in an active role. that said, apparently liz cheney agrees with. you take a listen to what she said on trump's second term white house plans. here it is. >> that is one of the real dangers people have to focus on when we think about a potential second trump administration. you will take those people, the most radical, the most dangerous, who had the proposals that were the most dangerous. he will put them in positions of supreme power. that is a risk that we simply cannot take. >> you alluded to this. he gained knowledge in that first term about how to get around checks and balances in a potential second term. without the people around him that were in the first term, how much do you think he can get away with? >> you raised a really good point. trump definitely came into the presidency not really understanding how government operated or how it works. i think he's learned a lot now. coming into a potential second term now he knows how to work the system, gain the system to get around these things. i am concerned because i do think that there were a lot of ideas, things that he had proposed, that folks in the government pushed back on. they did not allow it to happen. i think that now you wouldn't see that kind of pushback. i think some of the things that he has floated recently, in his true social posts and his speeches and everything, wanting to consolidate power. doing away with checks and bounces in order to, essentially, create a dictatorship. i know that that sounds hysterical to say but that is, essentially, what he wants to do. there have been many, many, articles on this. how he wants to consolidate power. weaponizing the doj in order to enact revenge on his political enemies. ion't think any part of the sounds like making america great again. i think it sounds like a terrifying america. special counsel jack smith issued a new court filing saying trump supporters were actually sent on the path to january six violence in an effort to establish his motive, intent, and preparation for attempting to subvert joe biden's legitimate election victory. liz cheney says his intent was clearer, take a listen. >> we heard this evidence from republicans. the republicans who, for example were leading his campaign, his white house counsel, his acting attorney general, the most senior people around him told him, you have lost. the claims that you're making or false. >> were you, sarah, privy to any of these conversations? do you know anything about how this information was received by donald trump? >> i, actually, was not part of any conversations with the former president on the subject. i did talk to people who spoke with him about this. i have heard that even in private conversations he would occasionally slip up and acknowledge that he had lost or that there will be a second administration coming. he definitely knew better. and we saw from senior officials telling him his own attorney general, bill barr told him, there was no evidence of fraud and that he lost the 2020 election. >> let me ask you quick because jack smith osecutors noted in august 2016 that trump said his race against hillary clinton would be, quote, rigged. and he refused say he would accept that election result. very quickly, did you hear that kind of rhetoric? >> i never heard him say the. like i said, i was not privy to those types of conversations. but i think he has been playing this game for a while. it was very clear, even in 2016, that if he lost the election his ego wouldn't be able to handle it. he would've blamed it on the system being rigged. we saw him start laying the groundwork in the 2020 election with the mail-in voting. him saying that mail-in voting was fraudulent. he was already laying the groundwork in casey lost so that way he had an excuse, something that he could look back on and say, well, look. the system was rained! this is why i lost. not acknowledging the fact that he lost the free and fair election to joe biden. >> sarah matthews, always illuminating talking with you. i look forward to doing it again. thank you. a groundbreaking medical breakthrough could bring relief to about undetected people. those details next. details next ved, and it began her family's touching story that is still going on today. vicki: childhood cancer, it's just hard. stacey passed on christmas day of 1986. there is no pain like losing a child, but saint jude gave us more years to love on her each day. marlo thomas: you can join the battle to save lives. for just $19 a month, you'll help us continue the lifesaving research and treatment these kids need now and in the future. jessica: i remember as a child, walking the halls of saint jude, and watching my sister fight for her life. we never imagined that we would come back. and then my son charlie was diagnosed with ewing's sarcoma. vicki: i'm thinking, we already had a catastrophic disease in our family. not my grandson too. marlo thomas: st. jude has helped push the overall childhood cancer survival rate from 20% when it opened to 80% today. join with your credit or debit card for only $19 a month, and we'll send you this saint jude t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. jessica: for anybody that would give, the money is going towards research, and you are the reason my child is here today. charlie: i was declared-- this will be two years cancer free. but there's thousands and thousands of kids who need help. saint jude, how many lives they do save is just so many. marlo thomas: charlie's progress warms my heart, but memories of little angels like stacy are why we need your help. please become a saint jude partner in hope right now. [music playing] a groundbreaking treatment for sickle cell disease has been the roof by the sba and it uses gene editing technology, gives offers new hope for those suffering from the debilitating wild disorder. nbc's roman ellis has more. >> the medical breakthrough focused attention on a long overlooked genetic disorder affecting mostly african americans. suffering from an excruciatingly painful disease, sickle cell. the treatment called cast chevy is the first fda approved medical use of the gene editing tool, crispr. at the beginning of a new era into it -- modifies the dna in the patients own stem cells so they no longer produce sickle cells, which can cause health complications, and can lead to an early death. doctors call it transformative, for nearly 100,000 people affected. >> i think it really will change the landscape of science for sickle cell disease. i think it is going to open a lot of doors for a lot of patients. >> it's already changed lori mornings life. the 29 year old first year law student in american universities washington college of law is one of 46 patients involved in the clinical trial. diagnosed at birth with sickle cell, doctors told her mother she might not live beyond 11. for most of her life, she says, she suffered severe pain. >>
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