Transcripts For MSNBCW Jose 20240702

jose? >> good morning. it is 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. we continue with breaking news. right now on capitol hill, you've been watching this vote that has been carried out on the floor of the house. and as you can see, it appears that george santos appears to have been expelled. and we were just listening to former congressman talking about what happens now. let's listen in right now to the speaker. >> two-thirds voting in the affirmative. the resolution is adopted and a motion to reconsider is laid upon the table. the clerk will notify the governor of the state of new york of the action of the house. under clause 5d of rule 20, the chair announces to the house in light of the expulsion of the gentleman from new york, mr. santos, the whole number of the house is now 334. >> so it seems as though with those few words, congressman george santos has been expelled. he is no longer a member of congress. how is the process going to be carried out? we'll, of course, be watching that together. i want to bring in capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki, susan page, washington bureau chief of usa today and matthew dowd, chief strategist and msnbc political analyst. so, ryan, what exactly are we going to see going forward? >> reporter: well, first, jose, i want to point out that george santos just left the capitol for the last time. he is no longer a member of congress. he normally is someone who takes every opportunity to give his point of view to the assembled television cameras. he did not take that opportunity today. instead, waded through a mass of reporters and cameras to a waiting car and just took off to leave washington for the last time. i did have an opportunity to yell a question at him, to ask him what he would have to say to his constituents, he did not take up the opportunity to answer that question. but this is the end of a saga that has been going on from before he was even seated as a member of congress when the initial reports came out about the inconsistencies in his background and then the subsequent investigations by the department of justice and then, of course, the house ethics committee, where it just seemed like every investigation uncovered a new round of questionable behavior by george santos. essentially what this means, jose, is that the second that gavel came down, he was no longer a member of congress. the people of new york's third congressional district no longer have representation. all the rights and privileges that are afforded a member of congress he lost at that exact moment. so, what will happen now is that his congressional office will be run essentially by the clerk of the house -- >> ryan. >> reporter: yes. >> i understand representatives garcia and goldman, democrats, are now speaking. let's go to them. >> -- on what you just saw happen today. >> well, my take is that new york has been broadly, beyond just the district 3, has been clamoring for george santos to be removed from congress since january. we had members of new york 3 come down this morning and talk about how they thought that he would be removed in january because his conduct was so obvious and so egregious to defraud the voters of the 3rd district of new york. but all of the new york party supported george santos. republican party. they all wrapped their arms around him. there is a lot of interlocking connections between the republican members in new york and george santos. and they tried to protect him for as long as they could to preserve their political power and their slim majority, and also potentially to save themselves from further discredit. >> let me also remind folks, we started this, dan and i, nine months ago. and so this has been something we have been focused on from day one. we both believe integrity in the u.s. house of representatives is incredibly important. nine months ago, the first expulsion, making sure it went to the house ethics committee, report came out, i think overall it is disappointing how many republicans, especially mike johnson, refused to actually do the right thing. i think this is actually horrific vote that shows his leadership in the future and how i think little moral center he has on an issue like this. but the other republicans obviously we had a pretty almost united democratic coalition and caucus. and it is a sad day, but george santos needs to go and focus on the bigger issues he has, which is his 32-count indictment that he has ahead of him in the months ahead. >> i would just add that -- i would add that the -- the -- ultimately this should never have been a partisan issue. whether or not someone has the proper moral clarity, the integrity, follows the rules, and therefore can justly vote on legislation, can see classified information, can serve the american people is not based on whether or not they're republican or democratic. and it is too bad that the republicans, even to this day, where more than half of them voted to protect george santos view this as purely a partisan issue. it is an issue of right and wrong. it is an issue of integrity. it is an issue of democracy. whether voters should be able to be deceived in order for someone to assume the power of a member of congress is not a republican or democratic issue. it should not be. but unfortunately for the republicans it has been. >> representatives garcia and goldman, democrats, who were very much behind the process to create a system by which congressman, now former congressman santos could be expelled. i want to go back to ryan nobles. and, ryan, we were just chatting right before we went to these two congressmen on what happens next. >> a higher standard. >> reporter: are you worried about the precedent, some of your colleagues, they seem to be concerned what could happen now, whether it will be expulsion after expulsion vote. >> some are worried that this will become the norm before we see the censure votes we had. the fact is this guy stole for his campaign, stole from his donors, and lied about his whole record. and it is not fair. i'm a military guy. did 30 years. i get angry when people do the false valor, you know, wearing all the ribbons they didn't earn. i think guys have been in the military seeing some like that happen, it is not tolerable. >> reporter: you're now going to have a three-seat majority. does that concern you at all? >> it does. but yet i think there still had to be justice and accountability. in the end, are we going to change the scales of accountability and justice based on narrow majority? i don't think we should. there will be an election. i think it is more of a tossup seat. i know there are concerns too, i know bill johnson is leaving, but that will be -- in the end, you can't let that shape your -- you can't have a -- you can't shape your values on whether it is three-seat majority or ten-seat majority. you got to do what's right. >> reporter: this was a massive distraction for the work you were trying to do every day. at the very least, are you glad this is something you don't have to answer questions about all the time? >> it is time to move on. we shouldn't tolerate someone in our ranks that lied and stole. let the voters decide that. these are criminal things and i thought the investigation, the ethics investigation was damning. it was -- it was like a knockout punch on him. but what was written about him. >> reporter: okay, congressman, thank you, appreciate it. thank you. that was congressman don bacon from nebraska. he is a moderate republican, often a swing vote in situations like these. he was among the group of republicans that voted to expel congressman santos and i don't know how much you heard of our conversation there, but essentially his takeaway from all of this was that the evidence that was uncovered, not just through the justice department's investigation and the criminal indictments, but also the house ethics report was just too much for his republican colleagues to tolerate and they needed to move on from this distraction. and the other part of that conversation i think is important, jose, as we move forward and we were talking before you went to the press conference about what happens next is that this already takes a slim majority that the republicans were dealing with and makes it even smaller. they only had a four-seat majority before. they'll only have a three-seat majority now. there is also a seat in ohio, where a republican is expected to lead. that will take them down to two. there is also the doubt as to what happens with the former speaker, kevin mccarthy, whether or not he stays in his seat leading into january and beyond. so, there is a lot of uncertainty with the republican party now. this adds to that uncertainty. but it just demonstrates just how damaging the overall sense was that george santos was to the republican party that they feel they needed to make this dramatic step and for only the sixth time in american history boot an active member of the house of representatives from office. >> ryan, extraordinary work as you always do, and stay with us. but i want to go to steve kornacki. steve, you know, ryan is talking about the real -- i would say unprecedented in many ways -- what we're seeing happen today. >> yeah, i mean, just to put this in some context here historically. this was the third attempt actually for an expulsion of george santos. the first one happened last may, was referred to the house ethics committee. the second one happened just about a month ago, initiated by some republicans in new york. that failed as you can see. and now after that ethics report came out, mid-november, added momentum for an expulsion vote, which we just had and lands at 311-114. so easily clearing that two-thirds threshold. with that, santos is now a former member of congress. he's the sixth member of the house to be expelled in all of american history. here are the other five. you can add santos to this list. and just think about the gravity of what it took to expel these members in the past. these three in the top row here, all 1861, the start of the civil war, each one of them took up arms for the confederacy, they were expelled from the house. michael myers in 1980, he was ensnared in the fbi sting operation known as abscam, refused to resign, he was expelled. in 2002, james traficant from ohio, he was convicted of multiple federal corruption charges in the spring of '02, the summer of '02, the house voted to expel him. those are the five this has happened to before. santos becomes the sixth. there are a few others in history who have faced expulsion votes, but haven't actually been expelled. santos was hoping to join this company today. but it is this list instead he joins, six in american history. just saw the sixth moments ago. >> unbelievable. i want to bring in susan page and imagine matthew dowd. this is having as steve says, the gravity of the moment. >> yeah. absolutely. gravity for the voters in the 3rd congressional district in new york, gravity for the nation in terms of expelling a member of congress and a big dilemma, i think, for that republican house majority and their new speaker mike johnson. they got a three-seat majority. the fact is when the special election is held early next year in new york, democrats think they're going to win that seat back. that was a district that voted for joe biden by 8 percentage points in the last presidential election. and that is the kind of majority that hardly carries the name majority. the difficulty of governing in the house is just going to get harder. >> and indeed, matthew, what impact does this have on the republican party and any possibility of anything being carried out there? >> well, i have to say, one, i'm struck by the historic nature of this, i'm struck by something deeper about all of this, which is the problem was, yes, they instituted guardrails this morning and kicked him out, but the problem was they never instituted guardrails and who they're nominating and who they're putting into these seats to begin with. that was the fundamental problem. the other thing i was struck about when i listened to representative bacon, he says we're not going to tolerate people that lie and steal in our ranks. so, it seems to me, with the presidential likely nominee, who has been indicted on 91 charges, in the course of this donald trump and this, it seems they'll tolerate somebody that lies and steals in the ranks if they're weak. i mean if they're powerful. but they won't tolerate somebody that lies and steals in their ranks if they're weak. and that was george santos at this point. the contrast between kicking george santos out, in my mind, for lying and stealing, and almost wholesale supporting donald trump, who has been indicted basically on lying and stealing is amazing to me. >> and you're talking about guardrails. there have been very little guardrails in the history of our republic in the house of representatives. maybe even in the senate. as far as guardrails previous to the election of a person, i'm wondering what guardrails could there be that would avoid something like this? >> well, the biggest guardrails could be it is nominate people with integrity, so let's put that as a standard, like, and then instead of being maga or whatever, let's start with integrity, that's where we nominate people with integrity. vet your candidates before you go get behind them, do a serious vetting. it seems to me it wouldn't have taken much longer than a couple of hours to vet this guy. but what happened was elise stefanik and other republicans backed this guy, probably understanding his problems with integrity because they wanted to win the seat. and that's the guardrail we need. >> yeah. and, ryan nobles, so going forward, and you were saying you actually saw the former congressman leaving capitol hill, just, i guess, minutes after that vote was carried out at the house. what is next as far as that seat and what we can expect going forward? >> reporter: well, susan brought up a good point about the future of the seat. it is new york's third congressional district, which is on long island. it is an area of new york that trended republican over the past couple of years, but these are districts in which the current president joe biden carried relatively easy during the 2020 election. and it is kind of the base of what made up the republican majority in the 2022 midterms. what is interesting about the third congressional district is that there is a guy by the name of tom swaze, he stepped down to run for governor of new york and failed to win the democratic primary in a seat that is now held by kathy hochul, and now tom is running for that seat again. so he's someone with name recognition, he's someone with deep connections and ties to the democratic leadership here in washington. and so, you know, the democrats almost have a running start when it comes to the special election if and when that is scheduled. now, the republicans have fielded a number of candidates. candidates that they believe will be competitive in a seat like this. and one of the things i think is interesting about all of this is how vocal the other new york republicans were in pushing george santos out. it was clear that they wanted to distance the new york republican party from george santos. the biggest critics of george santos were guys like anthony d'esposito and nick lalota, michael lawler who represents part of the hudson valley and mike molinaro who represents a slice of upstate new york. they were pushing leadership to get him out. they were the ones that put the expulsion resolutions on the floor and didn't let up until the vote took place. so that's going to give them the opportunity to go to these voters in long island and say, hey, we made a mistake with santos, we're not going to make that mistake again. whether or not that argument works remains to be seen. but democrats no doubt feel very emboldened that not only is this seat -- has reduced the majority temporarily for republicans, but they have the opportunity to keep it in democratic hands going forward. >> and i mean, susan, that seat, that santos won, many thought, had a lot to do with the gubernatorial race that was being carried out at that same election. so, there is a lot of, i guess, difficulties for republicans in that seat. >> you know, jose, you asked about guardrails that would have prevented this from happening. i would like to add one more guardrail and that should have been an active press. i think the reporters, the news organizations that cover the 3rd district, if they had done a more aggressive job during the first election of george santos, voters would have had a chance to know about the fact that he was lying about his resume before they sent him to congress. and so i think this is an example of the failure of the press as well as the failure of republicans and nominating him and in democrats not beating him that first time around. >> indeed. i want to bring in george solis, who is with us this morning, at santos' district in queens, new york. george, good morning. so are people there reacting already to this? >> reporter: yeah, that's right, good morning, jose. the district director here is still speaking to the press and just came out of the office to tell us the office will still remain open, saying that now the responsibilities fall under the clerk's office until a new representative can be elected for the 3rd congressional district, saying george santos delivered a message to them to make sure they thanked the people of the district for being supportive of, those that were supportive of him, thanking his staff and in d.c. for some of the work that they have done, but making no mistake this office will still remain open for the people and their needs here in the district. that being said, we also spoke to members of the constituency here in new york 3 and many of them not saying many kind things about george santos, saying -- tell meg this morning me they wr this vote, saying they have been defrauded, lied to, felt cheated by this congressman for his entire run here. i'll quote you from one woman i spoke to who says i'm sick of the corruption, we need to get back to running our government, we don't need a narcissistic psychopath stealing from the constituents. did you see him smiling yesterday? we have to get rid of him. i'm here to celebrate. that's one one of the constituents. the director stepping out of the office here, which is still open, letting people know the office will remain open here. it will be ten days before the special election that governor hochul will call to see who will represent the people here. and then many constituents telling me they have been so distracted by everything that has been going on, a name doesn't come to mind for them at this point. this was first step in that process of trying to find someone to represent the people here. jose? >> and, steve kornacki, let's talk about that process, the 3rd district which as i said that was earlier referring to it, it is a district that tens and certainly biden plus eight or 13, steve kornacki, and then it had a lot to do, george santos' victory, with what was going on in the gubernatorial race. >> it is very interesting to put this in some perspective here. remember, republicans did take control of the house in 2022. but only barely. a very disappointing night on the whole for them. and arguably the reason they got control of the house in 2022 was new york. blue state as you mentioned, the governor's race was much closer than expected. but after 2022, the balance of the house stood at 222 for the republicans, 213 for democrats. you think about this. santos won in a biden plus 8 district, a district that voted for biden by 8 points in 2020. next door, anthony d'esposito, a republican, won a district that voted for biden by double digits. d'esposito was active in the push to get rid of santos. you heard mark molinaro, mike lawler, if the democrats had just held those districts in 2022, they would have been on the cusp of control of the house. that would have brought them to 217. saving their house majority. and there was another district in new york, another biden-won district where there was a republican seat, democrats thought they could pick that one off, they failed there. had they picked that off, new york alone could have saved the house majority for democrats. that's why there is this push from republicans to get santos out because those seats are extremely vulnerable in 2024. if you're a democrat trying to win back control of the house, and you're looking at a situation where you got to win back districts that biden already won in new york state, there is a couple in california too, you got to feel optimistic about your chances. with this, down to 221 to 213 now. that special election will take place some time in the next three months. there will not be primaries here. there will not be party primaries. the county party leaders in this district, that's mainly nassau county, this does touch on new york city a little bit, are going to pick the candidates who will then run in that special election and as your discussion has been pointing to, the democrats because of the nature of the district and whatever damage santos may have done, the democrats could win this race and get it to 221 to 214 and that would have them entering the 2024 cycles four seats short of winning back that majority. and, again, there is four seats in new york they could do that with on top of this one. so it is the bigger picture here, i think, is this is one of the districts that was part of this unlikely combination that got republicans barely into the majority. and it is surrounded, or nearby, are a number of other districts that are very similar. if there is a spillover from the santos affair to the other districts that could be the house for republicans. >> steve kornacki, thank you for being with us this morning on a morning of breaking news out of capitol hill with impact across our country and certainly in queens, new york. we'll take a short break and be back with a whole lot. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. w. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. e. cosentyx helps real people get real relief from the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis or psoriasis. serious allergic reactions, severe skin reactions that look like eczema, and an increased risk of infections, some fatal, have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to or if ibd symptoms develop or worsen. i move so much better because of cosentyx. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. hi, my name is damion clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging 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vacancy in new york's 3rd district. the people of long island deserve nothing less. governor kathy hochul with that tweet, just minutes ago. and with us now to continue our conversation is texas congresswoman veronica escobar. a pleasure to see you. i know you sit on the ethics committee, which investigated george santos, and wrote the report that led to today's vote. ranking member of pennsylvania susan wild said the report was unanimously approved by the committee. what is your takeaway from this vote today? >> well, thank you so much for having me on the show again, jose. and this is a very sad day. and very solemn occasion. i never imagined coming to congress that i would ever have to vote to expel a colleague, a fellow member of congress. but this was a vote that had to be taken. the evidence was overwhelming. his violations were so egregious that they rose to the level of shocking. the investigative subcommittee spent months investigating this. and i want to say our ethics team, our staff, our nonpartisan staff really worked very hard to ensure that they provided all the due process required to mr. santos. and gave him the opportunity on many occasions to collaborate and cooperate with the ethics committee. but it is a very sad day that we have to remove a fellow colleague. but it had to be done. >> and it had to be done because, according to the investigation that the ethics committee carried out, you say you found some shocking things. what were some of the things that most shocked you? >> there has been a lot of coverage over how mr. santos used the ill-gotten campaign contributions that he received, but not enough ex-sis really on the fact that he stole from his constituents and his donors. and he lied, he had an extensive web of lies. it really was in some respects a very sophisticated effort to defraud not just the voters of his district, in the state of new york, but also to defraud people who were investing in his campaign. he -- we heard recently even from one of his colleagues, our colleagues representative miller that mr. santos used mr. miller's credit card to take money from his account. it was brazen theft, and that the evidence was very clear, very overwhelming, which is why i was so stunned when republican leadership came out and actually advocated against expelling mr. santos. thankfully the vast majority of the members of the house of representatives who read the report and who were outraged by what the details within it have the presence of mind to do the right thing for the house of representatives and for the american people. but it really is stunning that house republican leadership said it still wasn't enough. >> and, you know, steve kornacki was reminding us that santos is now the sixth member to be expelled in the history of the united states. congresswoman, just your thoughts on, you know, the house of representatives and the senate and is such a vital part of american democracy. and i'm just wondering your thoughts, the bigger picture of just where we are as a nation. >> you know, it is unfortunate that the american public has seen, especially over the last several months, the incredible dysfunction that has occurred really because of the infighting within the house republican party. we are sent here by our constituents to address and face and solve our greatest challenges and to embrace and uplift our great opportunities. that's what we should be focused on every single day. and it is not a right that we have to serve in congress, it is a privilege. it is an honor. and, you know, for some of the members of the house republican leadership who kept trying to protect george santos, i think they lost sight of the fact that this is a tremendous privilege that we have been given by american voters to focus on the needs of our country day in and day out. and no one has the outright right to be in congress. it is a privilege we have to earn every single day. >> yeah. and i mean, i'm just i thinking of the extraordinary road that you have had, congresswoman, to get to capitol hill, you this stellar judicial background and so much more. i'm wondering, you know, congresswoman, it really is the privilege of privileges to be able to be where you are, to represent people who vote for you in free and fair elections. it is such a -- just the beautiful aspect of democracy and how it needs to be protected. >> it does need to be protected. and it is why we take an oath at the beginning of our term, every congress, to uphold the constitution, to protect and defend it against enemies, domestic and abroad, and we are facing historic challenges right now, jose. as you cover every day on your show, domestic challenges from the challenges at our nation's front door, to challenges to making sure our hard fought rights are maintained, especially the rights for women, and we're facing huge challenges abroad with what we're seeing in russia or the aggression by russia and ukraine. and the war that we hope does not expand in the middle east beyond israel and gaza. and all the while each member of our communities, every voter, every american, looks to us to do the right thing and to act with integrity and that's why today's vote was so important. >> congresswoman veronica escobar, we have to continue our conversation for those issues that you just brought up and so many more. i am confident that we will be able to carry this conversation going forward in a short period of time. i thank you for being with us this morning. >> thank you. up next, the first woman to serve on the supreme court. justice sandra day o'connor has died. we'll look at her groundbreaking life and legacy next. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant... is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms... ...better than an antidepressant alone. and in 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>> well, let's remember she was by the end of her tenure the most powerful figure on court because she was in the middle and needed to get mostly on the big controversial cases you needed to get her vote if you were going to carry the day. the other thing i think to remember about her is what things were like for her when she graduated from law school in 1952. she was in the top 10% of her class. she couldn't get a job as a lawyer. she had to work for free for a county attorney to get some experience before they would finally put her on the payroll. the jobs she was offered out of law school were secretarial jobs and then she became the first woman on the supreme court and the pivotal figure for years on that high court. >> what an extraordinary thing you're just reminding us all about. dahlia, you covered justice sandra day o'connor during her time on the bench. what do you think her biggest impact on the court was? >> so interesting, you just heard two versions of the same o'connor story, which is she was the swing vote. for a very long time, she was that centrist who determined which way the 5-4 would go on so many issues of affirmative action, on abortion, on church-state, on campaign finance. it was her way that determined how the country went. and in some sense because she was replaced, don't forget, by samuel alito, who moved the court very dramatically to the right, there is a way in which her legacy was almost erased by virtue of who replaced her. so many of the areas of the law where she kind of held fast were more or less vaporized when justice alito took her seat. she was the last member of the supreme court ever to have held elected office. she really knew how politics worked. and that leeched into so much of the way she thought about doctrine. she understood in a way that i'm not sure any of the members of the current court understand what it is to run for office. >> susan page and dahlia lithwick, thank you for being with us this morning. appreciate it. up next, israel resumes its bombing in gaza now that the seven-day truce has collapsed. we'll have a live report from tel aviv next. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. . you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. tt whatever we did here would be an emblem of what small communities can achieve. trying to give a better life to people that don't have the means to do it. si mi papá estuviera vivo, sé que él tuviera orgulloso también de vivir de esta viviendo una vida como la que estamos viviendo ahora. es electricidad aquí es salud. 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border. a report from the "new york times" says israeli officials obtained a blueprint of hamas' blueprint for the massacre but ended up dismissing it. nbc news has not verified the report. antony blinken addressed the new reporting last hour. >> there's going to be plenty of opportunity for a full accounting of what happened on october 7th, including looking back to see what happened, who knew what when. israel has been very clear about that. right now, the focus is on making sure that they can do everything possible to ensure it doesn't happen again. >> joining us now is nbc's foreign affairs correspondent richard engel from tel aviv. give us an update on the war back on full throttle. >> reporter: not sure if it's full throttle, but it's definitely back on. there had been the seven-day pause in the fighting, a truce. the truce seemed to be producing results and seemed to be moving ahead. although, yesterday, the momentum was slowing down. there was the hamas shooting attack in jerusalem. there was increased tension between israel and hamas over specifically the issue of which hostages could be released in exchange for which palestinian prisoners. over the course of the day, you could sense that things were getting more and more difficult, more and more fraught. you could hear frustration from the qatari negotiators who are trying to keep this deal moving forward. then this morning, things fell apart. both sides are blaming the other for what happened. hamas' version of events is this. hamas says that it was acting in good faith. this is hamas' version of events. it wanted to hand over hostages. it wanted to hand over older men. that israel didn't accept that. israel wanted a group of young women that hamas refused to hand over, young women saying, saying the military-age women were soldiers. hamas also said it would hand over some bodies and the father of the bibas family. hamas said it was acting in good faith but that israel wouldn't accept its terms and then began the bombing campaign. israel says that hamas was not acting in good faith, that hamas was failing to account for the hostages that it still has, that hamas was refusing to hand over hostages and that because it was violating the terms of the agreement, israel did what it said it would always do, if the hostages weren't being released, it would resume the military campaign. that's where we are. the campaign has been renewed. according to health officials in gaza, more than 100 palestinians have been killed just so far today. there's also been fighting in northern israel between hezbollah and lebanon. we are in a difficult phase right now. one thing is the two sides do not seem to be disagreeing on the principle that the idea that hostages can be exchanged for palestinian prisoners. there's a possibility we could get back to a deal. >> richard engel in tel aviv, thank you very much, my friend. appreciate it. joining us now is ambassador mark regev. i always appreciate your time. i thank you for being with us. just want to start our conversation by asking, was the prime minister aware of this document about hamas plans"the n before the october 7 attack? >> no. we in israel are very troubled, because on october 7th, they took us by surprise. we pride ourself in this country for having excellent intelligence services. the fact we didn't have warning or the warning didn't reach decision makers, that has to be looked into. it's a failure. when this war is over, i'm sure we will have an inquiry -- independent inquiry. we have done that in the past. there will be a parliamentary inquiry as well. we have to get to the bottom of this. we have to find what lessons need to be learned. >> ambassador, just to reconfirm what you are saying, the prime minister was not aware of this report that was divulged throughout the israeli intelligence community? >> i'm not sure it filtered up to the top. i'm sure it reached the top of military intelligence. we have to look at what happened. it's clear there was a failure. we have to find out exactly what happened. obviously, we don't want to repeat the same mistake. we live in a tough neighborhood and it's important that our intelligence services do their job effectively and that reports reach the people who they need to reach. >> ambassador, let's talk about what is going on right now. this truce is no longer, this pause is no longer a pause. there is the war to resume. i was asking richard and i will ask you, is it a full-throated war right now between israel and hamas in gaza? >> the pause in the fighting ended because hamas refused to release more women, as the deal was supposed to involve. they actually opened fire on us before the cease-fire was officially over. at 5:30, hamas was launching rockets into israel. they made a decision. if their fighting is renewed, it's because hamas refused to continue with the pause and continue releasing israeli women held hostage. we are fighting hamas. we will defeat hamas. our goal remains the same, to get our hostages home, destroy hamas' military machine and create a new reality in gaza that we don't have a situation where terrorists can cross the border in the middle of the night and butcher our children. no one should have to live like that. israelis refuse to live in fear of a constant threat by terrorists. we saw what brutal and horrific violence they are capable of. >> i remember that during the pause, there was a terrorist attack by hamas on jerusalem. three people lost their lives during the pause that was supposed to be carried out in gaza. i'm wondering, ambassador, there are concerns by many, including the biden administration, that told israeli officials they must approach the military operation in the south with more care for civilians than they did in the north. how do you see that concern and that caution? >> first thing is, what happened yesterday morning. people going to work at a bus stop. they were mowed down by two terrorists, one with an automatic rifle and one with a pistol randomly killing people. we were lucky we had police on the spot that could respond quickly. otherwise, we could have had many more killed. that's who hamas is, they target innocent civilians. we are targeting hamas and making a maximum effort to see civilians get out of harm's way. that's why we leaflet areas where we know there's going to be combat. we want civilians to move out before the fighting starts. we don't want to see them caught up in the crossfire between the israeli defense forces and hamas terrorists. >> ambassador, there are 2 million plus civilians or people in gaza. where are the people that are now in the south, many of whom were living in the north and actually moved south after your country dropped leaflets there telling them to go south, now where are those people and the ones that are in the south living permanently supposed to go? >> first of all, not everyone in the south has to go. we are being surgical, very specific about areas where we need to attack where there are hamas military infrastructure, where we need to act. once again, not everyone has to be relocated. a small group will be temporarily relocated if they want to get out of the fighting. they should. we have specified zones. those maps have been shared with secretary blinken and others in administration, specified safe zones for civilians to be for the fighting so they sta

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