pause in the war. yesterday, hamas released 24 hostages while israel released 39 palestinian prisoners. and new video is showing dramatic reunions on friday, like nine year old ohad wound or. his mom -- grandmother ruth e. coming face to face with their loved ones after being held captive. relatives are saying that the former abductees are doing as well as can be expected. >> what is a good shape for a nine year old after being in some prison cell for nine months? the way i see is, the doctor said that they are exactly where they should be, under the circumstances, okay? so, we have to give them time, of course. but we are optimistic, a lot of love and a lot of patients, you know? recuperating and coming to terms with the new reality that has happened. >> indeed. well, the ron asher and her daughters, aviv and roz, they were also released and reunited with their loved ones, while relatives of the am still being held or questioning widespread global protests in support of palestinians. >> so, wherever in the world, they are talking about giving humanitarian aid to citizen -- people in gaza, how come they are not talking about giving humanitarian aid to our hostages? how come? well >> also new today, more than 50 aid trucks were allowed into gaza. officials say, and egypt say, they're getting positive signals from both sides for a further extension of this truce by one or two days and the potential release of additional hostages and palestinian prisoners. we've got a number of reporters in place covering all of the day's developments for you from israel to the white house. we are going to go first to nbc's erin mclaughlin, who's joining us from tel aviv. aaron, welcome. so, what are you hearing right now about the next set of hostages and palestinian prisoners that are expected to be released sometime today? >> well, alex, we are now hearing of a delay in the exchange for today. hamas, releasing a statement to nbc news, outlining the reasons for the delay, saying they are going to delay releasing the israeli hostages that we have been expecting to be released, really, at any hour. they are citing three different areas that they are alleging israel has violated the terms of this temporary cease-fire agreement. one of them being the aid. now, under the agreement, 200 trucks of aid were supposed to have gone from egypt, through the rafah crossing, into gaza. what hamas is alleging, according to this statement, is simply not enough of that aid has entered gaza, but specifically the hard-hit areas of northern gaza, where tens of thousands of palestinians still live. hamas, also alleging that the israelis are not releasing palestinians in the order that had been agreed upon, under the terms of this deal, under the deal that the oldest, the longest held palestinians were supposed to be released from israeli prisons. they are saying that that has not happened and then hamas is also citing yesterday's violence. thousands of palestinians on when the cease-fire happened rushed to the north, trying to get home, and israeli soldiers opened fire, according to palestinian health officials inside of gaza. at least one was killed and a few others were wounded. hamas, upset about that, saying that it is a violation of this agreement, and so, they are delaying the hostage exchange for today. and of course, the big question for so many families, for pretty much everyone here in israel, is, for how long? how long will this delay go on for? and how it could impact, potentially, the overall agreement, alex. >> yeah, that's a lot of information and certainly not welcome news for many who are anxiously awaiting the return of their loved ones and all of us around the world watching this. but aaron, i just want to confirm -- you were given this [inaudible] hamas to -- news, so this is -- hamas -- what's happening today? >> correct, alex. this is a statement to nbc news that's -- we have reached out to government [inaudible] for reaction. we have not heard back on that. -- the qatar in this agreement [inaudible] >> -- activity about all of this, as clearly indicated by this news, anything can be setting delays back. we will stay on top of this with your health, aaron. i know you will stay hot for us and let us know if anything is developed further. let's get some reaction right now from the white house. we will go to nbc's allie raffa with some new reaction from president biden. first of all, ali, the question to you. has the white house been made aware, to the best of your knowledge, about these delays and or the reasons for them? >> well, alex, that's something that we've reached out to the white house about. we haven't received a response as of this moment that we are chatting. but that is definitely something that we will be following up on. as it relates to the hostages, the american hostages that the president and senior administration officials continue to say is their number one priority out of the cease-fire, out of this deal that came to fruition yesterday, that started and began yesterday, of the president and administration officials continue to say that they are hopeful that americans will be included in the hostages that will be released by hamas, as part of this deal. but they continue to say they will not be releasing any specifics on potential timing or any specifics as to certain cases, hostage cases. at this point, we know there is no indication that americans won't be included as part of this deal. as you will remember, those two americans, a mother and daughter, where the first hostages released by hamas two weeks after this war began. and a senior administration official told our team this morning that this was indicative of some hope that more would be released by hamas, saying, quote, the president secured the release of two american citizens as the pilot to this larger release of hoages. we are early in the process that we'll see at least 50 women and children released during the first phase of the agreement. we are hopeful that will include three dual national women and children, who are american citizens, and they go on to say again that this will unfold over the coming days. and again, they won't comment on individual cases, as this process continues to be underway. but alex, we saw yesterday, as the first phase of this began, the president, very honest with the american people about how fluid and how sensitive this continues to be, about how many moving parts have to fit perfectly together for this continue, for this to continue being successful. he was also honest with the american people about what the u.s. government does and still does not know. listen here. >> we also remember all those who are still being held. we renew our commitment to work for their release is as well. to american women and 14 year old child, abigail, who remains among those missing. we also will not stop until we get these hostages brought home and an answer to their whereabouts. we don't know what the list of all the hostages are and when they will be released, but we know the numbers, when they will be released. so, is my hope and expectation it will be soon. >> the president, going on in that speech, linking himself directly to the behind the scenes diplomacy that took place in order for this deal to come to fruition. talking about his constant communication with the leaders of israel, of qatar, of jordan, of egypt. talking through this whole process for this deal to be reached. and a senior u.s. official is telling us this morning about the president was briefed multiple times by national security adviser jake sullivan yesterday. he continues to be briefed throughout the day on the ongoing developments happening on the ground there. this official says that as developments happen, that relate to these american hostages, that they will share that with us. so, certainly, success so far, alex. but still a long way to go. the president and those officials, as i said, still optimistic that americans will be among those hostages released. >> absolutely optimism prevails on that front. okay, thank you so much for that, appreciated. ali rafah. let's go back to erin very quickly. so again, erin, as i look at the clock, 709 pm there, where you are in tel aviv. how recently were you given this update by hamas and has there been any reaction that you know of there in the area around you? are people upset about this delay? are people waiting on pins and needles? what's been the reaction that you're aware of? >> well, alex, we have literally just received this news when i first came on air. so, this is very fresh. we don't have any reaction, as i said. we reach out to the israeli government for reaction, we reach out to the state of qatar for reaction. we have not heard anything yet. it is worth noting that it is seven pm here in israel and yesterday around this time, the israeli hostages, 13 of them, had already crossed from gaza through the rafahossi into egypt. they crossed, according to the prime minister's office, at around 5:30. they were handed over from hamas to the red cross and into gaza. of course, that has not happened yet. so, you know, as this news continues or as we learn more, i would imagine we will be getting reactionary soon, alex. >> okay, so one point that you made was that hamas was not pleased with the amount of humanitarian aid, specific to visit fuel trucks? what is it that they did not think they should be getting? i believe you reported there were 30 trucks that went through. >> well, according to this statement, what hamas is alleging is there not receiving enough aid overall to gaza. yesterday, they received 196 trucks. the agreement is 200 trucks of aid into gaza. but critically, what they're most upset about, according to this statement, is the amount of aid reaching into northern gaza. now, we know from the palestinian red crescent, there is a convoy of around 60 trucks that were supposed to have crossed into northern gaza today. the largest convoy since the start of the war, according to hamas, that did not happen. some of the trucks got stuck at a checkpoint and that really is one of their key grievances, according to this statement. because remember, the northern section of gaza is the hardest hit part of gaza. israeli forces have really concentrated their efforts in the north, in areas such as gaza city, the job liu refugee camp. that's where we've seen most of the destruction, most of the bloodshed. and so, what hamas seems to be saying from the statement is that not enough aid is reaching that area, specifically, which is why they are delaying today. >> okay, erin mclaughlin, thank you so much for the deep dive into all of this. again, just getting this information. ten, 11 minutes ago. appreciate you standing by for us with whatever you do get, but i'm joined right now by a former member of the fbi's hostage rescue team and founder of sierra one consulting, rob d'amico. rob, welcome to you. so, let me run through the list of grievances by hamas at this point, for the delay of release of hostages that was supposed to happen today. keeping in mind we are approaching 7:15 pm there. that there was not enough aid going in, that there was not the release of the palestinian prisoners from israeli jails in the order that was supposed to have happened, allegedly, i guess in age or in duration of those people who've been imprisoned the longest, get them out first. and lastly, military operations by the idf when reportedly, thousands of palestinians had moved south in gaza. avoid the gunfire and the shelling there in the north by the idea we're rushing to return home. and reportedly, the idf opened fire on them. this all tells you about the very precarious, delicate nature of hostage negotiations in a situation like this and the fact is that you have spent some time with operations in afghanistan, in iraq, dealing with hostage negotiation. so, give me a sense of, based on that, what we are looking at here between israel and gaza. >> i think the best thing that happened, at least they have a list. they have a very definitive list and israel has to answer them. they have to go back and explain if it was the checkpoint. i mean, everything other is a bureaucracy, so the checkpoint might not have had -- get the trucks in earlier -- that they will have to fix, same thing with the people working back to northern gaza and that getting engaged by the idf. so, it is hard across a battlefield to get everyone to play into what's supposed to happen. but there is a list. israel has to reply to it. but these things i knew were going to happen, even in like two and three hostage exchanges. we've had problems, we're putting hostages who are captives that be released on a plane. we actually had to turn them around, fly the plane built back to qatar, and with the next day. so, i knew this is going to happen. the fact that it's a quantitative list, then they can go down and say that this is how we're going to address it and now what are we going to do the release? >> i understand a list is called, and maybe with your experience, and that would specifically to this one. i'm not, certain but it can be called the proof of life. and that will list the hostages. why is it important to stick to that? >> actual proof of life is proving a person is alive. there's many ways to do it, and when we're talking like, when we are in afghanistan, we had many false trails of people saying they had access to hostages, and they would have to prove to us that they actually had the hostage and they could release the hostage. i think in this case, it is more there is such a vague number of how many people are held hostage. in order to make this happen, it's trusted, the moment i call it. because you, have two warring factions, but you have to have trust in the moment that you both negotiating faithfully, and if you don't know how many people they totally have, you can't do the. especially when it gets out then. if you have 220 and several have died in the process, and they are down to say, 200, that is going to be a problem at the. and i think they really need to come out and say, this is who we have, this is a number we have, to make that at the moment, trust and confidence, and they're going to be looking at the last releases to be on par with what we think they have. >> so, rob, the fact that this is being done that specifically during what they are calling a cease-fire, but rather, a pause, and that it would seem that both sides are ready to pick up arms and go at it again as soon as this four-day pause, if it's not extended, and. how much does that add pressure, either way, to get this either done or can create problems, considering they know what's just around the corner? >> well, i think it is like the carrot and the stick. it's one of those things the pressure back and forth, each side has pressure to apply, and apply for israel to start the ground war, if things aren't going as planned. if the releases aren't happening. and vice versa. so, they have these, and what we were at, when we were with the taliban and the commies, we were doing prison swaps, we didn't have pause is going in. that this one is on, but i think towards the, and when you really get down to the numbers, if the releases start going better and the flow information, i guarantee who's people scrambling right now to make this happen and turn it back on aid for tomorrow, to get the releases and get everything fixed. but when you start getting down to were the crucial numbers in, this what's going to happen? are they going to say yet in the first four days, a, we had this many were going to release, and then israel is going to come back and say well, if you don't release them by this time, we're going to start with this on the ground or side? >> let me ask you specific to yesterday. 24 hostages released in the first batch. they had 13 israelis, ten hostages from thailand, another from the philippines. notably, though, no americans. does that tell you anything? >> i think hamas wants the americans in the game to the end. they understand that we apply some pressure to israel, maybe to get things, the israelis are saying they don't want to give, and then we put pressure on them to find something. so, i don't think they want to give all the americans back, and then not have america. i'm not gonna say they're not concerned, but not as involved in it. so, i think the americans will come out piecemeal throughout the entire process, to keep us more engaged. >> okay, and the challenges overall of pulling off literally just the logistics of the hostage rescue, especially when you are in the final stages here. i mean, i'm curious about the security apparatus that has to be in place to do that. what is that like? >> i have seen all kinds of flying helicopters to remote sites to pick up hostages. this one yesterday, when i saw the video, i was a little bit concerned. the chaos in the transfer of the israeli hostages in front of all the palestinians, i felt that they were somewhat in danger. if there is a faction within the hamas that doesn't want this to happen, they could've got access to hostages and them something horrible. i also feel the hostages feel like hopefully, they told them they were being released. but things have to be predictable, and i saw them very panic moment, he probably felt like animals in a zoo almost, being looked at and traded back and forth. i don't think it went anywhere helping them with their mental health, because they're going to have a serious, long term ability to try to undo this mentally. this will never, they are going to have a basically a new normal, as doctors all the time calmly, and how they did with. this >> absolutely. they need to have mental health support, get back into the loved ones, the arms of their loved ones, i'm sure those kinds of services will be provided. rob d'amico, thank you so much. again, we are still waiting, rob, to see if the hostages get released. scheduled today, as we appreciate you going not to, too far from that camera. enjoy your day until we, perhaps, call on you again. thank you. coming up later on, everybody, two big developments in donald trump's legal world. they both involve one thing he cannot keep shot. we're back in 60 seconds. n 60 seconds help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. ♪♪ nothing like a real tree. ♪♪ oh, fudge!!! oh, fudge!!! ♪♪ the holidays are joy, except for all the snow, slush, salt, and pine needle catastrophes... weathertech's cargoliners and floorliners are laser-measured to perfectly protect the front, back, and even up the sides. order the perfect holiday gift today at weathertech.com and don't forget weathertech gift cards. king c. gillette is an award winning lineup men's health best beard trimmer for beginners among men's journal's best beard shampoos and washes and gq's best beard conditioners for soft no-itch, facial hair. your beard is our trade these are your tools king c. gillette again, developing right now for you, hamas says it has delayed the second exchange of hostages and prisoners asked the four-day truce between hamas and israel enters now its second day. the grandchildren of one of the hostages, the offer of the, or who was released yesterday, they are calling on the international community to keep fighting. >> thankfully, our grandmother returned home yesterday, after almost 50 days in captivity. we got a chance to hug her again. i want to say that the fight is not over until all of the hostages will be back from the youngest to the oldest. they all have to be home. so, i ask you, all of you, all the international community, don't stop fighting. >> joining me now, democratic congressman russia christian merkley of illinois, he is a member of the house intelligence and oversight committee. he is a good friend to us. welcome to the broadcast, sir. so, let's begin with this delay in the hostage release. the families, as you, here are calling on the international community to help. have you had any intel briefings on this situation? i'm curious what you could tell us as well, if you know anything about the americans still being held hostage? >> nothing beyond the public report so far. we will be getting that on monday, alex. we will go back to washington. but i just saw the united nations statement that was released a moment ago. basically calling for the immediate release of all the hostages. hamas is on very little standing at this point to complain about the order in which hostages have been released. we don't know whether their complaints or a pretext or whether there is actual truth in their complaints. but we have to get to a situation where this truce continues until the hostages are released. >> oh, 100%. what about israel and hamas? the fact that they agreed to this temporary cease-fire, but both sides, of, course a fighting is going to continue when the pause expires. israel's military goal is to completely eradicate hamas. is that possible? >> i don't know. but i am very focused on a certain condition that the parties agreed to, which was to extend the cease-fire by a day, for every additional ten hostages that are released. and -- >> where did you get those details? is that something intelligence that you were given? >> no. that is something that apparently is part of the agreement. it's now been kind of stipulated by the parties, and i think that this is something that and i am very hopeful that people seize upon to extend this cease-fire. >> okay, so i just want to reiterate that, because it is news to me. you've heard that ten hostages were released by hamas, and i'm presuming for a same number prisoner exchange, of palestinian prisoners, and that each day, that would extend? but this temporary cease-fire? >> well, one modification that they said was that the exchange, or what they have agreed to is re-palestinian prisoners being released for everyone hostage that has been taken by hamas. but for every ten hostages now released by hamas, the cease-fire will extend by one day. >> okay, thank you for clarifying. just for all of you looking to the left of our screen, oh, it just one black that. said, we are looking at hundreds have been gathered there in tel aviv. protesting the slow pace and wanting the international community to keep up the pressure, as we have those pictures were stored there. you can about imagine, can i ask you how much this is on the minds of congress? certainly, it was their proceeding the thanksgiving break, and you said you will be getting a briefing on monday. so, how much is this top of mind for our lawmakers? >> very much so. i think that we are receiving calls from people who are very concerned, obviously, about the plight of palestinians and the death and destruction that is occurring in gaza. but also, we are being contacted by numerous people who are concerned about the plight of the hostages. and also, accountability for hamas and what it did on october 7th. this is something that is very much, that is very much a topic of discussion. and concern for many of us in congress right now. >> when it comes to money as well, sir, military aid, because as you know, the president is asking congress to approve 14.3 billion dollars on top of the 3.8 billion annually that the u.s. provides to israel, with very few strin attached. there is an op-ed written this week by a senator bern sanders to, wrote the blank check approached much and. the united states must make clear that while we are friends of israel, there are conditions to that friendship, and we cannot be complicit actions that violate international law and our own sense of decency. so, the question is, is senator sanders right? >> well, in concept, yes, to the extent that no aid right now is unconditional. as deputy national security adviser feiner, who is one of the presidents deputy, national security adviser said the other day, you, know all aid to israel and to other countries is conditioned on american law. that being said, i do think there is concern in congress about what's happening in the west bank, especially with regard to the settlers on the settler front towards palestinians, but there's also concern about conditions that the republicans placed the other day on aid to israel, namely, conditioning on defunding the irs? which is a completely partisan consideration. so, i think that there is talk on all sides about this particular issue, so. we have two sorted out when we go back. what i would just like to say one last thing, which is this aid to israel has to also move with aid to ukraine, as well as aid to the indo-pacific region. our adversaries are looking at how we treat all of these aid packages in totality, as they make their own moves. so as the eyes of the world are upon us, we have to perform in a way that car guards or national security, and those of our friends and allies. >> i'm very glad he made that statement. i think it is pretty much across the board in the democratic party, with our lawmakers in congress. they believe the 80 ukraine should continue, as you are well aware, i don't have to tell you, that the republicans in congress right now are not really even talking about it. so, it is a dire time on both fronts. thank you so much for joining me. i hope you had a wonderful thanksgiving holiday, and i look forward to seeing you again. thank you. >> thank you. >> with this breaking, sobering news from arizona. derek chauvin, the former minneapolis police officer, convicted of murdering george floyd, he is in the hospital today after a prison stabbing. officials say emts performed lifesaving measures after yesterday afternoon's attack, but they have not released any details on the extent of his injuries. we do know chauvin is serving a 21 year sentence and a medium security prison in tucson. he was convicted of kneeling on floyd's neck for nine and a half minutes. george floyd said he could not breathe. we keep developing this following story, bringing you updates here on msnbc. meantime, an inside look at all the work that went into friday's hostage release. after a break. after a break. shown to support cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say, ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. bottom of the hour with home of the xfinity 10g network. this breaking news out of the middle east. hamas is delaying the second release of israeli hostages scheduled for today. saying in part that it has not gotten enough humanitarian aid, as we give you a live look right now in tel aviv. we saw there are hundreds, probably into the thousands, of protesters, resisting and delays, and wanting the eyes of the international community to stay right where they should be, on the release of the israeli prisoners there. it comes after 24 hostages were freed friday, after the start of a breakthrough deal between israel and hamas. the release took weeks of negotiations between israel, the u.s., qatar, and egypt. and among those freed, hannah katzir, 77 years old, and thought to have been killed in gaza. her husband was murdered by hamas. her family and friends describe her as a grandmother with a big hard to would give up herself to others. also released, adina moshe, 72 years old. her husband was also killed. she has four children and is planning to help raise her grandchildren in her kibbutz. president biden says this is part of a larger effort to bring all the hostages home. >> today's release is the start of a process. we expect more hostages to be released tomorrow, more the day after, and more the day after that. over the next few days, we expect that dozens of hostages will be returned to their families. we also remember all those who are still being held, and renew our commitment to work for their release as well. >> joining me now is our good friend, peter baker, msnbc political analyst and chief of our correspondent for the new york times. peter, i'm going to take a peek at your recent article, which i think is very apropos, given what we are learning in this last half hour. so, terrible choices and deep trust. you talk about this agreement, and you say it came down to two critical phone calls, ultimately forcing each side to make a tough concession. so, talk about what concessions were? and what role the white house played in these negotiations? >> well, that stage was helping to shepherd these negotiations through with qatar, the intermediate and infirmities of hamas. this was -- playing out three weeks, initial hours after the october 7th terrorist attack by hamas. qatar, the gulf emirate, sorry, emirates, you know, contact with the white house and had information about the prisoners, saying they could help work on that, and basically four weeks, the president was assigned a secret cell of aids to help work on this, led by brett, but white house middle east cordon later. and these two calls really kind of sealed the deal we're trying to force prime minister netanyahu to accept that only 50 of the hostages will be released in this first stage. he wanted more, understandably. there are 240 or so who have been taken. hamas was willing to release 50, but not more. president biden had to say look, take what you've got now. then, continue down the road to see if there are more status for the releases. similarly, hamas wanted a five-day pause in the military operations that israel is waging against gaza. and israel was only willing to give four days. it was the president having to call the say hey, take the four days. tell hamas to take four days, what they ultimately did. as you see today, is a very fungible situation, in which any small thing can come along to offend the deal. and that's what worries, i, think all sides in this. anything can come along and sort of methodical timetable that they have laid out could be upset. >> yeah, were there any specifics, peter, given as to why hamas wanted five days to release hostages, as opposed to four? we do know that israel has been concerned that any extended period of time could offer hamas a chance to reorganize. >> yeah, i think it's just looking for more opportunity, basically five days is better before. better chance to regroup, better chance to re-arm, better chance to re-situate your fighters and maybe use these civilian locations, which they had been doing, as shelters. you know, against the israeli military. so, i don't know if anything that makes four days versus five days in particular crucial, but basically, i think you're right to suggest hamas is looking for a much breathing room as it can after the bombardment and ground invasion. >> here's the thing. with no americans having been released yesterday, we know the president expects some to be among these 50 the go she had a full release during this pause. but is the white house saying anything about why not yesterday? is there anything to interpret their? >> no, they're not saying why specifically. they think there are three americans who will be among these 50 who will be released over the next few days. they didn't say why, they didn't think the americans were among those first three. it's possible hamas is holding out because that is leverage. i know that's something that biden cares a lot about. they want president biden to put pressure on the israelis to you know, keep the military operation at bay while they do these hostage releases, and maybe they picked the best, you know, trump hard for them. >> so, three, they do expect to be released. okay, duly noted on that. but what about the pause in fighting? between israel and hamas? is scheduled to end monday, but where do negotiations even go from here? let's take into account what we've been finding out in these last 35 minutes or so. things are on a pause right now. >> yeah. it's a very good question. we hope it's been certainly, the biden administration, and i think among israelis, that they could perhaps continue to the same process, if the first work that well. if the first 50 were released, and everything more or less what according to plan, maybe they could get for that releases. and as you reported a few minutes ago, another ten hostages for another day of pausing the military operation. you see that playing out perhaps over weeks to get the rest of these 240 released. or as many of these 240 released as possible. they're not as high expectations at those among the 240 who are israeli soldiers will be released, so much of the civilians. they not may may not last, the equivalent to hundred 40 hostages. they will keep some of them, i imagine. the longer it can be extended, the more hostages that can be released. that's a thinking right now. >> look, politically speaking, the president faces pressure. it is coming from a growing number of democrats, pressing to call for a full on cease-fire. that includes congressman jonathan jackson, with whom wily speaking this next hour. but walltreet journal reports,, the pause for hostage release is at least quieting some ofat pitical pressure, but not for long. has the white house figured out balancing support for israel with maintaining democrats support as this president heads into the 2024 election year? >> well, they're certainly acutely aware of that. the tension among democrats is very real. it is not just even in congress. it's even in the white house staff. there are some younger generation staffers, in the white house, who are concerned about the administration support for israel in this military operation. and you know, a president understands that. they don't know how much that really factored into his thinking. he believes that we strongly israel has a right to defend itself, and a right to take on hamas. but at the same time, as you heard him say yesterday in nantucket, clearly the desire on his part is to see if this current pause can be extended, to have a little more of a breathing space there for more humanitarian aid, and help civilians get out of the way of the fighting, even if it does resume. and i think there is that balance, you are right, he's seeking, but what that balance is hard to find at this point. it's really very, very, very delicate. >> i'll tell you, it's literally inch by inch right now. and the way, peter baker, always thankful for you, my friend. thank you so much. my next guest has sat in court during donald trump's civil fraud trial. her take on the arguments for keeping a gag order in place. that's next. in place that's next. my name is douglas. what's good not new i'm a writer/director and i'm still working. in the kind of work that i do, you are surrounded by people who are all younger than you. i had to get help somewhere along the line to stay competitive. i discovered prevagen. i started taking it and after a period of time, my memory improved. it was a game-changer for me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. developments in the trials of donald trump. in the series of appeals playing out across the country. in new york, threats and harassing messages against the judge and his law clerk, they are now front and center in a new filing to keep a gag order. in trump's civil fraud trial. then, in d.c., special counsel jack smith is leaning on that filing to keep a gag order in trump's january 6th case. meanwhile, in colorado, the state supreme court will pick up the case, seeking to keep trump of the 2024 ballot, after recharge rookie quote, engaged in insurrection. joining me now, kristy greenberg, former federal prosecutor, former deputy chief of the criminal division at southern district of new york. kristie, i was good to see you, my friends. i, i know you've sat in on some of the new york court sessions. what did you find the most alarming among the threats against court officers, and could it have any impact on the gag order the new york case? >> well, these are civil servants. the judge's staff, a law clerk, typically, you don't have people in court, any of the parties or the lawyers, targeting a law clerk. a young woman who is just a civil servant, trying to do her job. she's certainly not an interested party here. her job is just to do justice and apply the law to the facts. and the fact that she has become such a prominent target of trump and his team is incredibly alarming. the threats that have been lodged at the judge and now at this law clerk are incredibly disturbing. according to the court filing, she is receiving anywhere between 20 to 30 calls a day. and 30 to 50 messages a day. and these are vile. just a sampling of what was in that filing calls for her death and demise. they are blatantly antisemitic. they are violent, and more importantly, they are credible. that was the one thing that stood out to me. when police had looked into these threats of violence against this law clerk and the judge, they were deemed to be credible, and the fbi and department of homeland security were brought in in order to make sure they were security measures in place. so, this is not idle chatter. this is real, and there needs to be gag order in place, because as the filing says, when the gag order wasn't in place, these threats went down. there's a direct correlation between donald trump talking and people acting. and it needs to stop. >> yeah, incredibly upsetting to hear about. lete k you to d.c., though. the appeal court signaled that it could pair back trump's gag order in the january six case, suggesting it stlehis right to push back on the tractors. but here are some of the points raised by those d.c. judges. take a listen, miss christy. >> as this trial approaches, the atmosphere is going to be increasingly tense. why does the district court have to wait and see and wait for the threats to come, rather than taking a reasonable action in advance? >> when general milley has written a book and spoken publicly about his efforts to shield that world from the consequences of the defendants conduct, that has got to be fair game. let's say i'm a prospective juror. can i be protected technologically, from like, doxxing? >> give me a sense of how you think this hearing went. did jack smith's team err on the side of winning or losing? >> i think they are trying to win, because i think they know what the consequences are here. what they could be. i mean, at the end of the day, when you have such violent rhetoric, such as donald trump calling for general milley, one of his social media posts talked about him being executed. and again, he has this platform more people really listen to him, and when you're putting a target on people's backs and using this very violent and inflammatory language, and people are acting on this by sending threats and then potentially acting on those threats, it needs to be nipped in the bud. it needs to stop for anybody really gets seriously hurt here. so. i think the judges are going to keep some gag order in place. it sounds like they're going to narrow it in certain areas where there are figures, public figures, that they fear and they feel as the judge said, are fair game. but i don't think anybody's fair game when it comes to this kind of violent rhetoric. it really does need to be stopped, no matter who is the target. so, i think you will be narrowed, but i don't think it should be. i think anybody who he is seeking to incite and inflame, he needs to be stop from doing so. >> okay. kristie, next time you come, back we're going to talk about the efforts in colorado to keep donald trump off the 2024 presidential ballot. breaking news today, i'm a little shorter on time today than usual. thank you so much. shopping in person for gifts this year is really different for all the wrong reasons. we're going to show you, whiteness. eness. rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. 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( ♪♪ ) oh, hello! hi! do you know that every load of laundry could be worth as much as $300? really? and your clothes just keep getting more damaged the more times you wash them. downy protects fibers, doing more than detergent alone. see? this one looks brand new. saves me money? i'm starting to like downy. downy saves loads. the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam, who make- everyday products, designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder, that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that- i need a breakthrough card. like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more. plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases. and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas- a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. the rush to return home for thanksgiving is certainly here, which means traffic across the country, aaa predicts 49.1 million people on the road this season, and tsa expects 2.9 million flrs just tomorrow, and that would be the busiest day ever. but a little heads up for you travelers, a thorn is moving through central states. it's going to bring snow to the rockies and plains, so, watch out for accidents and delays. but let's go to the roads right now. nbc's marissa park is at a travel plaza for us off of i-95 in maryland. so, how is traffic looking north of this afternoon? what are you seeing? what are you hearing from drivers? >> hey, there. we can see from experience, because all of my crew, including myself, had to travel along 95 to get here. this is a travel pause along the 95 corridor. and i will say that many people i have spoken to have said kind of a mix. they're seeing it's starting to pick up, but not as bad as they were expecting. probably by design, if only because many of them were saying they left early, remember, is still early in the day. they left early to try to get ahead of what could be some heavier traffic expected as the weekend continues here. so, i'm actually going to give you a chance to hear for yourself what travelers were saying. >> from d.c. north, has been terrible. we've just been following the gps, trying to find the easiest route, and it's been terrible. >> i think is a lot heavier this year other years, yeah. especially i've noticed people going north, as i was going south. and it was bumper-to-bumper all the way down. >> it wasn't that busy, but it's picking up. >> so a couple things, tomorrow, is expected to be the busiest day of return travel. gas prices lower right now than this time last year, and travel levels, but travel in other foru i expected to break records, especially by air. we're also seeing an increase of 11% by bus, by train, by cruise ships. one of the people we spoke to said this is the first time traveling since before the pandemic, and we know that is a large part of the reason why we're seeing those numbers and other forms of travel going up, alex. >> yeah, i think some days senators a little easier than sunday. case in, point mason is on the plane right now. actually watching the show on his way back to los angeles. hi, honey! anyway, thanks, marissa, for that. well, everyone, the holiday shopping season is also underway. this year, police are gearing up to combat retail crime. nbc's list courses in l.a. with more on what they're doing to keep shoppers safe. liz? >> yeah, over the last year, there seems to be a rise in those wild and frankly, scary smash and grab robberies. many con camera. now, states like california and oregon have announced that efforts to increase their police presence at busy malls and shopping areas over the next, month and this comes as some protesters are also targeting malls as a place to send a message. >> los angeles police on alert after propellants dineen protesters marched through one of the biggest malls in l.a. on one of the busiest shopping days to figure. >> free, free, free palestine! >> the group made their way outside the growth, and then, blocked a major intersection. [crowd chanting] the >> black friday protests, coming as the holiday shopping season ramps up, and police prepare to combat retail crime. >> we are not only focusing on the individuals that are committing the thefts, but we're going after the criminal chain. >> we're organized staff and grayson smash and grab robberies like these are playing miles coast to coast. >> they just smashed and grab all of what they could. >> in l.a. last week, a mob of thieves told $12,000 of merchandise from a nike store. days later, french bulldog puppies were the hundred thousand dollars, swiped from a pet shop. the increasingly violent theft costing the retail industry 112 billion dollars last year. >> it's a big problem. >> stephen craig owns the senator outlet mall in l.a., where he says several shots have been targeted by organized crime. >> it's huge. you know, you walk into a cart, story steel $10,000 worth of bags, and you go out. it reduces their profitability. >> in addition to the increased police presence here, this was 25 undercover cops, high definition security cameras, and somebody added license plate readers to tucker time. >> there's a lot of presence here. >> still, shoppers are on high alert. >> do these smash-and-grabs change how you experience them all? >> yes. you have to take more precautions, be more aware. we are not as carefree. >> this morning, police vowing to crack down to ensure safe holiday shopping experience for everyone. >> and just this, week the california highway patrol arrested two people connected to a large organized retail theft ring. officers recovered nearly $10 million of stolen merchandise from big box stores, including shoes, clothing, and electronics. back to you. >> all, right list. thank you for. that coming up next, we're talking 2024 in south carolina. and the new questions about who is a close second to you know who, why that person may be gaining on him. gaining on him it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attr-cm a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist and ask about attr-cm. - [female narrator] five billion people lack access to safe surgery. thousands of children are suffering and dying from treatable causes. for 40 years, mercy ships has deployed floating hospitals to provide the free surgeries these children need. join us. together, we can give children the hope and healing they never thought possible. it's a mission powered by love, made possible by you. give today. >> today, donald trump is heading to south carolina for that state's biggest sports event of the year, the gop front runner will watch the -- ball, looking to upstage opponent nikki haley at her alma mater's football game. joining me now from columbia, south carolina, is nbc campaign embed, rather, greg hyatt. greg, welcome to you. so, what can we expect from donald trump tonight and what are you hearing about nikki haley pulling in second place there in her own state? >> hey, good afternoon, alex. so yes, former president trump is going to attend here at this event a little over at 7:30 pm tonight and he's going to get a very enthusiastic crowd, based on some of the people that we've spoken to a little bit earlier. they were very enthused about the fact that the former president is going to be here. it's going to be his fifth visit here for this rivalry to actually dates back to 1896 between clemson and south carolina. and the fact that this is his fifth visit is actually pretty notable, when you consider the fact that even though he has the endorsement of the city governor here and the lieutenant governor, and the attorney general, he's spending a lot of time and resources here. from a polling perspective, there's a recent poll that came out that shows trump had a little over 52%, and nikki haley at just under 17%. we talked to some voters a little bit earlier, just to get a sense of the 2024 gop dynamic here in south carolina, and of course, football as well. take a listen. >> my first question would be, if you're going to our carolina colors or clemson? but we are excited to see him if he comes and hope the travel won't be too bad. >> that's exciting. the ticket prices were huge and i asked -- to do with it but i don't know, i mean, we will see in this idiom if it bring some energy or what. but if anything, any former president in the building is exciting. >> we like nikki haley. yeah, we respect her a lot, we like her. >> despite the fact that this, of course, is a football event, politics is still very much present here. just behind me, there's a tailgate going on and there's a bunch of trump 2024 flags. just a few feet from where i'm standing, you have a lot of trump merchandise that is for sale and it's definitely getting a lot of traction. so, -- definitely a very big part of what's happening here today with football. alex? >> absolutely but that's gotta hurt for nikki haley, man. that's her alma mater. anyway, all right, greg hyatt, thank you so much. appreciate that live report. in moments, breaking news as hamas delays plans to release more hostages. plus, images that are giving everyone a palpable sense of relief. also, breaking news about george floyd's killer. a report that he's been stabbed, what we know so far. plus, a rage against the legal system. the consequences of dona

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