Transcripts For MSNBCW Alex 20240702

come back anytime. >> yes, sir, thank you. >> that is "all in" on this thursday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. >> good evening, my friend. we're going to have more on al-shifa and what's going on at that hospital with a reporter has been to that hospital and reported there extensively, that's our own eamon mohyeldin. i want to start a with a good point made a member of congress, made by the freedom caucus no less. here's what chip roy had to say to his colleagues. >> one thing i want my republican colleagues to give me one thing, one that i can go campaign on and say we did. one. anybody sitting thin complex you want to come on the floor and explain to me one material meaningful significant thing the republican majority has done besides, well, i guess it's not as bad as the democrats in. >> congressman roy is correct on two fronts here. first off, the republican controlled house of representatives has next to nothing of substance this year. second, the republican controlled house is not as bad as the democrats. it's much, much worse. this is on track to being the least productive congress since the great depression. that is how few actual laws have been passed. they can't even pass the basic spending bills to keep the government running. it is just an endless cycle of crisis and can kicking down the road. so when the history books are written about this congress, what will it be remembered for? will it be remembered for the 15 votes it took for republicans to elect kevin mccarthy speaker of the house? or how just ten months later he became the first house speaker in american history to be ousted from that role only to be replaced by someone that most people including congress people had to google, congressman mike johnson? or will it be remembered for the fact that disgruntled former speaker kevin mccarthy is now allegedly body checking his republican fren enemies in the hallways. here's louisiana congressman clay higgins yesterday pushing the idea the fbi was behind the january 6th insurrection. >> if you are asking whether the violence at the capitol on january 6th was part of some operation orchestrated by fbi sources and/or agents the answer is -- >> you're saying no? >> no, not violence orchestrated by fbi sources or agents. >> are you familiar with -- you know what a ghost vehicle is? these buses are nefarious in nature and were filled with fbi informants dressed as trump supporters. >> ghost buses. yes, there are plenty of options here for the history books, but there is one story, one member of congress, really, that perhaps best reveals the way in which this congress, this republican led congress is less about legislation, less about work, less about actual governance and really quite simply just about personal gain. and that is the story of new york congressman george santos. mr. santos rose to fame in congress as a serial fabulist. he lied about his mother dying from cancer as she got into the twin tower on september 11th and the employees in the pulse nightclub shooting and being mugged on the way to deliver his rent, and his new york burbry scarf he wore uniron cloe to a stop the steal rally and about the $3,000 he stole from a veteran's dying dog's gofundme page. george santos lied about all of that. and then there were the myriad financial crimes santos was allegedly involved in, everything from ponzi schemes to credit card skimming. and yet despite all of that, his republican colleagues refused to show mr. santos the door. but what happened today might finally change that. today the house ethics committee released its report on santos' alleged election related financial crimes, and there are allegedly a lot of them. the house ethics committee alleges santos got his hands on campaign cash through a variety of schemes. he allegedly pretended to loan money to his campaign so he could be reimbarsed and created shell companies that his campaign would then pay for expenditures like ads that didn't actually exist. he also allegedly got people to donate directly to those shell companies believing those donations would go towards helping santos' campaign. and what the house ethics committee alleges that money actually went towards is incredible. $6,000 worth of purchases at ferragamo. more than 3,000 spent in a weekend in the hamptens, and $800 cash withdrawal from an atm at a casino, $1,000 cash, purchases on the adult entertainment website, only fanles. and multiple more than a $1,000 charges on a campaign debit card for botox. nice work if you can get it. now, the republican chairman of the house ethics committee says he'll file a motion tomorrow to expel mr. santos from the house. it is unclear if that motion will pass. santos himself has not resigned but he has said he will not seek re-election. he has already been charged by the eastern district of new york with allegations including wire fraud, falsifying fec records and aggravated identity theft, but he has pleaded not guilty to all of those charges. but santos' campaign treasurer pleaded guilty last month for her role in one of the alleged financial schemes and two months ago one of santos' aides pleaded guilty to wire fraud in another alleged scheme of santos'. as of this hour he maintains his innocence and remains very much a member of the house republican caucus. joining me now pennsylvania democratic congresswoman susan wild. congresswoman, thanks for being here. i'm interested to know how complicated it was to untankal these alleged financial crimes. or was it fairly out in the open? >> well, thank you, alex, for having me. and let me just say the first thing i have to do is give a huge shoutout to an incredible staff of lawyers and other staffers on the ethics committee who have spent months going through and unraveling as you say the evidence in this case. it is truly a phenomenal amount of work and effort that went into this report, and i'm glad that it has now been made public. >> and i encourage everybody to read the report, which is available on the internet. i'd love it if you could characterize your thoughts about the scope of this fraud. it is to the lay person a staggering amount of deception, but i wonder how you would characterize it. >> well, not just to a lay person, alex. it's a staggering amount of deception to anybody. at the beginning you went through a whole lot of his lies that really don't bear on his performances as a congressman or anything else. but there is also and you mentioned some of them, a litany of deceptions that were carried out, actual crimes involving sending money to himself through shell companies and getting people to donate to those companies, and lying on his campaign finance reports, and all kinds of things that really, really make him unfit for office. and i think it is our responsibility on the ethics committee to, first of all, i'm a big believer in good government. i believe that -- it makes me sad that americans generally have a poor impression of congress. and let me tell you people like george santos don't help that situation, so i'm really proud to be on the ethics committee, which, by the way, is a completely bipartisan committee of an equal number of democrats and republicans. every single thing we did in connection with the santos investigation and the investigative subcommittee and eventually voting out of committee so that it would be published was a unanimous vote of democrats and republicanps. that says a lot because that doesn't happen a whole lot in congress. but i think that it is our responsibility not only to the people of new york 3, his district, but to the rest of the country to make sure that people like this are not serving in frsz and not serving in any kind of position of trust, and that when they somehow manage to make it through a campaign and get elected, that they are ferreted out and eventually get expelled, and that is what i think you're going to see happen after thanksgiving. >> do you think george santos is going to be in congress by next monday? >> by next monday, yes. because a privilege resolution such as the one the ethics chairman, michael guest, a republican intends to file, has to be voted on within two legislative days. congress will not be back in session until the tuesday after thanksgiving. so i believe -- tomorrow there's a pro forma session, and my understanding mr. guest will be introducing that resolution tomorrow, which means my calculation is it will have to be voted on wednesday following thanksgiving. do i expect it to pass? i do. i've spoken to a number of people who have voted no on prior motions to expel or to censure mr. santos. all of them are now a yes vote. and i should add members -- yeah, let me just add members of the ethics committee often vote present on such things because we want to give the appearance of complete propriety, and we are not in any way, you know, biased against somebody who comes before us. but the work of the ethics committee is now done. there's nothing more to come before us. and my understanding is that all of the members of the ethics committee will be voting yes on expulsion. >> congresswoman susan wild, ranking member of the house ethics committee, thank you so much for your time and the latest on all of this. >> thank you. >> i want to bring into our conversation here melissa murray, professor of law at nyu and msnbc legal analyst. melissa, thank you for joining me as we pour through what is just a litany of alleged malfeasance if thought outright crimes. from a legal perspective when you hear about this, i mean there's a reason why we wasn't through all the insane things george santos lied about and also the substantive potential crimes. they seem to -- it's a character -- it's an indication of his character, the sort of fabulism. from a legal perspective that is all being referred to by the doj. >> as you say the ven diagram here is very strong. a lot of the information that was discussed in this very scathing ethics committee report could translate very easily into federal crimes. there's already an indictment pending for santos. first 13 counts and an additional ten counts on a superseding indictment. it's very likely there could be yet another superseding indictment and very likely questions could be raised about campaign finance laws violated, the federal election committee could be involve. this goes beyond essentially censuring or disciplining a member of congress. there's real liability exposure here. >> i am stunned to the degree to which we hear the term campaign finance violations with some regularity in campaign life. the fact that santos not only tried but really got away with it up until this point it seems, i mean what does that tell you about our campaign finance system in america? >> well, i mean we've already seen the campaign finance system is broken. we've seen the flood of dark money into our election. this is more of the same, a little more granular, using campaign finance funds in order to fund your own especially lavish lifestyle. all of that is a problem. but beyond campaign finance, we should also talk about the way in which we have for years heard the republican party talk about rampant voter fraud and electoral fraud. and here we have an example of actual fraud on voters. george santos won his seat, flipped his seat on these claims that later with very little sleuthing determined to be false. that's fraud on the voters. that's actual election fraud. and now we found out that not only did he lie to the voters in order to gain his seat, he's been actually funding his lifestyle. and it's very likely that some of this will make its way into a court of law as well. if you want to look for electoral voter fraud maybe -- >> here it is. >> yeah, exactly. >> i do have to ask in the context of the ethics concerns we have had lately at the highest echelons of american government, we're talking about clarence thomas and his $250,000 rv, and private school for an individual he had in his care, here you have george santos running a grift where whereby people are edeluded and deceived the money they're sending him for his campaign is really to buy him ferragamo shoes and botox. how much could expelling george santos give americans confidence that the system is not broken, is not rigged, is not really a mechanism for grift? >> i think george santos is a drop in the bucket here. even finding him guilty or convicting him of any of these crimes, that's just a drop in the bucket. it's not going to restore confidence in congress. congress has the lowest ratings among americans. although the supreme court not a political branch, but one has increasingly seen its stature fall over these years for all the reasons you suggest. americanserize at the point they're a little skeptical of government. she believes in good governance. i think americans want to believe in good governance as well. this undermines any feeling government is working for the people. instead it's been working for just some of the people and some of those people serve in congress. >> and she was drilling down on the notion this was a bipartisan committee and decision. and precisely because the supreme court, which you point out which i'd been concerned about seems to -- the desire to sort of have the court hold itself to a high, rigorous standard seems to be a partisan decision in this day and age. >> again, there are lots of partisan concerns here, and those questions i think loom large. i think they loom large over the question whether or not to expel santos. yes, this feels good in the moment. >> he's clearly someone who does not deserve to be in congress if these allegations are to be believed. but if we're in the business of expelling individuals from congress, it could easily be turned about with people we don't agree, who make statements of which we don't agree. those who urge caution proceeding down the expulsion route, i think that's fair and worth thinking about. but the point of the matter is this is someone who should not have been in congress from jump, who lied to get there. and now we've just seen the sweater he's woven simply unravel. >> i would call it giant onsie. >> a snuggy of lies. >> a throw. melissa murray, thank you my friend. good to see you. much more ahead tonight including donald trump's up relenting attempts to buy more time fr before he has to go to trial and the judge who may be willing to help him. what first what a second trump administration could be for immigrants in this country, and what might be done about it. i'll with president biden's principal deputy campaign manager about all that coming up next. puty campaign manager about all that coming up next i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see ho(car engine revs)ve. (engine accelerating) (texting clicks) (tires squeal) (glass shattering) (loose gravel clanking) in order for small businesses to thrive, they need to be smart, efficient, savvy. making the most of every opportunity. that's why comcast business is introducing the small business bonus. for a limited time you can get up to a $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. yep, $1000. so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network and that powers more businesses than anyone else. learn how you can get $1000 back for your business today. comcast business. powering possibilities. in 2025 a re-elected president donald trump would round up undocumented people already in the united states on a vast scale and detain them in sprawling camps while they wait to be expelled. he would reassign federal agents and national guard soldiers to scour the country for unauthorized immigrants and deport people by the millions every year. that is the vision outlined by trump advisers including stephen miller to "the new york times" last weekend. but we might not have to wait until 2025 to see at least part of that plan in action. as we speak, texas is on the verge of testing out one part of the trump 2025 immigration plan. on tuesday in a challenge to the federal government texas law lawmakers passed a bill that would allow texas police officers without training to arrest undocumented migrants. the bill would also allow local judges to deport those migrants without due process. critics say the bill could lead to racial profiling and the wrongful arrests of u.s. citizens, but it is now awaiting the signature of texas governor greg abbott. and this weekend governor abbott will be at the border with donald trump, the man who wants to implement these policies nationwide. joining me now is quintan folics, principal deputy campaign manager for the biden campaign. i'll read a quote from one of the biden campaign press releases today. building massive detention camps by defunding our military to imprison people living in america is not only un-american, it will actively make us less safety. donald trump isn't just echoing the words of hitler and mousselinely by saying he will root out vermin from within, he's following real action in their footsteps. does the biden campaign trump is on the level of hitler and moose mussolini? >> he's talking about ending birthright citizenships, mass detention centers by using military to round up american citizens in some cases, you know, putting children in cages. you know, this is not who we are. and so, absolutely, donald trump has proven that he's on a level of hitler and mussolini by his actions. and again his campaign is doubling down saying he would do the same things over again if he were re-elected president of the united states. so the proof is in the pudding here, and we americans need to believe donald trump when he says he would do these things because unfortunately he's already been given an opportunity to do them before, and we have to do everything in our power poomake sure he does not get back in the white house to drootry to do it again. >> how essential is this going to be to president biden's re-election campaign, and how concerned are you about some of the polls that show waning support for the president among the latino population in the united states? >> at the end of the day elections are a choice. our campaign has been routinely pushing back on this narrative around polling showing at the end of the day when there's a choice americans are turning out to vote for the agenda under president biden's leadership. we saw it a week and two days ago on tuesday when americans voted, winning races in kentucky, closing the gap in terms of republicans and democrats in states like mississippi and ohio, legalizing abortion. and so, again, our focus is on making sure we're doing everything we can right now to build a foundation to make sure we'll have a successful campaign heading into 2024. and when it to comes to this immigration message, again, this election is a choice. and donald trump is showing he's planning to put in place a divisive and hateful ban in america. these are human beings we're talking about. this is not leadership. this is not the way you govern. this is the ego of one person who is completely out of touch, and our campaign is going to be focused every single day on making sure we don't do that. >> i've got to ask about the narrative, the messaging, the pushing back. there's a story we were covering yesterday about univision and how the channel the network, the most widely watched spanish channel in the united states is increasingly turning its favor towards donald trump. it reportedly canceled biden ads that were supposed to be running during its interview with donald trump. it canceled an interview with a biden spokesperson chafs supposed to run after this interview with donald trump. when it comes to getting the biden message out in this critical year ahead, are you concerned by the actions of a place like univision? >> look, you know, univision is a platform that reaches a lot of voters, you know, who care deeply about the issues that we want to put in front of them. and so we're going to continue to have conversations and make sure we can resolve any issues we have with them. that's not something i want to litigate out in the press. so we're going to handle that in the manner that it needs to be handle. when it comes to handling voters, it's a different media environment than 2020 and going to be changing as we head to 2024. our campaign from the start has been vigilant about investing and testing across the states that we know we need to win in 2024 in order to get joe biden and kamala harris re-elected. and so finding the best messages, finding where we can reach the most voters so when we get into next year, we're able to maximize our effectiveness at reaching voters. and this is something the republican party, no other party is doing or working on, and this is not something you'll be able to parachute or balloon into 2024 and think you're going to reach voters in the media environment. our campaign is going to keep our head down and do the work to reach voters where they are and deliver the message joe biden is working on an agenda to lower costs for american families, to keep america safe in stark contrast with a republican party hell bent giving tax breaks to big pharma and the wealthiest among us. so that's where our focus is and that's how we're going to continue to proceed into next year. >> i know you folks have been reaching out especially to communities of color, especially black voters in this country, latino voters in thus country. that's part of an early initiative we've been reporting on. 22% of black voters, this is according to polling and i know we're not supposed to be relying too much on it, but it is a snapshot of the american public at this moment in time. 22% of black voters in six swing states choose trump over biden. kamala harris performs better than joe biden in a head to head matchup against trump due in large part to her support among voters who are either nonwhite or under 30. can you talk about that? why is that? and what is kamala harris' role in the president's re-election strategy? >> look, this is the biden-harris re-election campaign. they ran together as a ticket, and that's how we're running this time around, so we're not going to get caught up in any sort of traps and separate the president and vice president. that's not happening. the agenda that has been ran and successfully accomplished for the american people and all the things the president has done, the vice president has been by his side, and we're going to message those. and that includes creating nearly 14 million jobs, $7 billion to hbcus, $800,000 manufacturing jobs, capping the cost of insulin at $800 a month. so that's where our focus is. you know, when it comes to black voters, i've routinely said black voters are not monolithic, this is not an audience we take for granted whatsoever. it's also not an audience we believe we're going to parachute into their communities next year in september and october and just say if you turn out to vote, you're going to vote for us. we know weival to earn the support of this community, and we're keeping our heads down and doing that every sing day which is why we've come in and started treating black voters as sustainable targets to make sure they turn out to vote and vote for joe biden and kamala harris. and again, this election is going to be a choice. and when the choice is put in front of these voters, we've seen time and time again in spite of any polling that's come out, that they vote democratic for an agenda being presided over by joe biden and kamala harris. >> not taking any votes for granted, not parachuting in. quintan fulks from the biden campaign, thank you so much for your time tonight, sir. >> thank you, alex, i appreciate it. when we come back, a series of decisions by the federal judge overseeing trump's classified documents case has legal experts wondering what is going on here. plus a federal jury convicts the hammer wielding man who attacked nancy pelosi's husband against the backdrop of political violence unfolding across this country. that is next. unfolding across this country. that is next a federal jury francisco has convicted a man of that bruteany attacked former house speaker nancy pelosi's husband paul with a hammer last year, a violent crime that was caught on tape and that could put him in prison for life. today the jury found david depape guilty on two counts, attempted kidnapping of a federal official, that would speaker apelosi herself, and the assault on immediate family member of a federal official. the federal official piece of this is important because it was central to depape's defense. he never disputed he committed the assault. the defense team's argument is depape should never have been subject to federal criminal charges that he didn't do what he did because of nancy pelosi's actual job as a federal official. instead the defense argued depape did this because of a conspiratorial belief that nancy pelosi was part of a larger plot to, quote, manipulate the country, to pred lies and steal votes from donald trump. depape himself took the stand this week and spoke for more than an hour recounting how his political leanings wept from leftist to right-wing after he read a comment from a youtube video about former president donald trump. depape testified his plan was to get pelosi and other people he considered targets including tom hanks, mike pence, and governor gavin newsom to admit to their corruption and eventually to get president biden to pardon them all. now, david depape may represent the extreme paranoid end of the spectrum here, but he is part of a broader trend towards violence among our american citizenry and among our american leaders. earlier this week in georgia, an alabama man appeared in federal court to be arraigned on charges of allegedly making threats against fulton county d.a. fani willis and a fulton county sheriff for their roles in the prosecution of former president trump, the man pleaded not guilty. also this week in georgia another man made his appearance in federal court. he allegedly said he wanted to shoot greene in the bleeping head and threatened her family. on tuesday the building housing the office of the kansas secretary of state was evacuated because of a letter cop taping a suspicious substance. that followed a number of similar incidents over the past few weeks in which letters containing white powder including in some cases fentanyl were sent to election offices in five states, georgia, california, oregon, and washington. at least one of those letters reportedly came with the message, end elections now. and all of this stuff is just this week's news. a red flag signaling that a democracy is in trouble is when violence begins encroaching on the political space. and boy, that is a lot of red flags. coming up, one of trump's four criminal trials appears destined to be delayed until after the 2024 election. we're going to tell you which one and why next. but first a sneak prel view of periodical, a brand new msnbc film premiering this sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern. when i was growing up you did not speak about it. p you did not speak about it basically anything that happened in your period made you crazy. pd in your period made you crazy. zero sugar and zero calories. and cirkul has over 40 flavors, so your water can be as unique as you are. try cirkul. your water, your way. now with even more flavors. available at walmart or drinkcirkul.com. i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, 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(man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, your acceptance is guaranteed in most states, even if you're not in the best health. options start at $9.95 a month, 35 cents a day. once insured, your rate will never increase. a lifetime rate lock guarantees it. keep in mind, this is lifetime protection. as long as you pay your premiums, it's yours to keep. call for more information and the simple form you need to apply today. there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling. today judge aileen cannon significantly raised the chances the trump classified documents case will be delayed. and she did it in one paragraph. special counsel jack smith had requested judge cannon set a deadline for trump's team to tell prosecutors what classified information they plan to use in this trial, and they want that deadline to come fairly soon in order to keep the case on track for trial in may. but in this ten-line order judge cannon says she'll not set that crucial deadline until next march, and that is raising red flags among legal experts. it means a may 20th trial start date is looking less and less likely, which could give trump the delay he has been desperately seeking since the very start of this case. remember it was not even a week ago when judge cannon said she was keeping the may trial date for now but also leaving her options open to change that date in the future. waiting until march to make her final decision here could impact at least one other trump criminal case still in search of a court date. joining me now barb mcquade, msnbc legal analyst and former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. barb, thank you for being here. walk me through the implications of waiting until march to make some of these very important decisions. >>ia, you know, there's nothing illegal about this order, but i think the reason so many people are concerned about it is as a practical matter it really does seem inevitable that this will delay the trial date. the issue here is the cipa papers. it requires them to notify the government. normally 30 days is plenty of time to do that. in fact, counting backwards from a may trial date 30 days would only be april. so no problem, right? but the problem was identified in jack smith's pleading which said over 5,000 documents have already been produced today the trump team. and so realistic to get the notice of what's being used only 30 days would not be enough time to do all the things they'd need to do to get ready for trial. you'd need motions and responses and a hearing and a strategy. what they asked for so there'd be plenty of time to work through that, so they're saying we're not even going to set the date through march. >> is she also tacitly confirming her potential allegiance to donald trump here? is this indicative of a judge whose sympathies are really in line with those of donald trump's? >> i don't know. it's difficult to, you know, assess a motive to somebody. it does seem to cause you to scratch your head, though, a little bit. you know, most judges want to keep their dockets iporder and will do anything to kind of push the parties and keep thing said moving. a judge who tries to keep things moving, and so here this delay it's hard to figure out what the logic of it is, and perhaps that is one theory behind it. but it does seem that it is building in an ability to delay the trial. delaying the trial past may doesn't mean you have to delay the trial past november, which is certainly what donald trump would want. it could be a trial in the summer or fall, but hard to see how that trial takes place in may without addressing the cipa issues until march. >> barb, does trump not have a case to be made it's going to be hard to be in a courtroom in the fall of a presidential election year? is there not some credibility to that argument? >> yes. and, you know, i think one thing you often see in criminal cases is incremental delay in a trial date. and maybe that's trump's strategy here. maybe judge cannon is going along with that and delay until june, and delay until september, and at some point he says it's too close to the election and would tapt my ability to campaign effectively. i imagine we may see all of that play out as that election date approaches. >> in the meantime may is on hold, and fani willis still needs a date for her georgia election interference case. be nice maybe if someone could free up some things for her. barbara mcquade, always good to talk to you. coming up israeli troops spent a second day searching the al-shifa hospital in gaza for evidence of a hamas headquarters. what they found and did not find is next. what they found and did not find is next. tonight air strikes continue throughout the gaza strip krsh which has now lost all cellphone and internet connectivity under complete blackout due to a lack of fuel. it comes as israeli troops spent a second day searching gaza's main al-shifa hospital. despite claims by the u.s. and israeli governments, the search thus far has failed to produce evidence of a hamas command headquarters operating on hospital grounds. today nbc's raf sanchez filed this report. >> reporter: this, israel says, is the proof it's been searching for, releasing video today it claims is hamas tunnel shaft on the grounds of al-shifa, gaza's largest hospital. we can confirm this opening is located near the hospital. >> there's an ak-47. >> reporter: both israel and the u.s. say hamas operate a command center under al-shifa. israel says there'll be more evidence to come. >> joining me now is someone who knows that hospital well. throughout the years nbc afs ayman mohyeldin. when you hear about the reporting from al-shifa hospital, what's your assessment what's going on here? >> well, the first thing i i think of is back in 2008 when i was based in the gaza strip and i would go to the shifa hospital and report on all kinds of stories. these allegations they've been making they've been making for 15 years. you can go back to 2008 and you can see israeli officials making the same statements that the al-shifa hospital was being used by hamas as a command and control. they'd call it a headquarters. and all i can tell you based on my reporting for years, i've been there hundreds of times and walked around the complex of al-shifa hospital, never once had anyone interfere with our reporting and tell us you can't go there, you can't access that. that's one. two, i think it's important for viewers to understand a lot of the doctors who work at al-shifa hospital are foreign doctors meaning they're volunteer doctors and they've come from the u.k., sweden, from the united states. and many of those doctors as well, we hear the language sometimes the doctors in the hospitals are run and controlled by hamas. but the truth is these doctors are americans, europeans, certainly no allegiance to hamas whatsoever, and they have spoken openly what they have seen and how they were never denied any access to anywhere in the hospital grounds for them to be able to go and see for themselves. that's not to say it's not true. i'm just saying it's been 15 years of of these allegations, hundreds of doctors including local and foreign doctors who have come through there and never substantiated by anybody outside of the israeli and now americans. >> the president was asked point-blank about the intelligence he had, that the al-shifa hospital was a hamas headquarters. he said clearly in a press conference yesterday hamas does have headquarters, weapons material below this hospital, and i suspect others. the u.s. is very out front on this, and it feels like a lot hangs on the idf's ability to show this was in fact a hamas headquarters. this feels like an incredibly weighted moment for all of this, and i wonder what you make of biden's strategy thus far. >> again, i would say as a journalist where is the evidence? i'm old enough to remember 2003 and the weapons of mass destruction debacle in iraq, so i err on the side of caution when it comes to government and intelligence officials saying here's the proof and we're going to war from this proof. again, it's not to say it's not true, it's just simply to say we would need to see what that evidence is, and israel would have to make a compelling case, and they've now been in control of al-shifa hospital for better part of 48 hours going onto 72 hours tomorrow. and what we have seen so far raises a lot of questions as to how they have described it. again, they described it as a hamas headquarters and command and control. the language has shifted a bit from command and control to as admiral kirby said earlier to a command and control node. i'm not sure what that is but seems like it's a downgraded description of what's inside. and what we're seeing raises questions on what israel itself has described as an intelligence failure on october 7th. there's a lot of questions i think as a journalist i'd be looking at with a more cautious eye before running to a conclusion the israeli and americans are saying. >> and also coming as the biden administration tries to calibrate its response more broadly. you have john kirby saying it's impossible for israel to totally eliminate hamas. you know, you have biden saying at once full support of israel but also saying the only ult mlt answer here is a two-state solution, which is not something that netanyahu has proposed. >> his own cabinet ministererize openly against that. they are openly against a two-state solution. they're saying that privately. they're saying that publicly. the prime minister himself although he has in the past committed today a two-state solution it is not something this israeli government is prepared to talk anytime soon. we've heard this from a lot of israelis officials that a two-state solution is not a feasible option for a variety of reasons but certainly not going to be one anytime soon. >> it's a remarkable moment as gaza is plunged into a humanitarian nightmare. >> it's a complete blackout now. and we're now in uncharted territory if you could even say that. >> ayman mohyeldin host here weeknights on msnbc, thank you my friend. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. . >> george santos is a fraud and should not be a member of congress. >> from new york my district is right next to santos' district. my voters and i

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