Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline 20240702

white house" starts right now. hey, everyone. 4:00 in new york i'm in for nicolle wallace. justice and accountability. more than a year after a harrowing attack that shocked this country, the ongoing political violence at the forefront, the jury found david depape guilty on counts of attempted kidnap taing of a federal official and assaulting a family member of a federal official. talking husband of nancy pelosi, paul pelosi, with a hammer in their home back in october of last year. depape faces life in prison. nancy pelosi they are deeply grateful for outpouring of prayers and warm wishes for mr. pelosi across country during this difficult time. the pelosi family is proud he densated extraordinary bravery and demonstrated in the courtroom this week. he felt in immediate danger when depape arrived at the doorstep in the middle of the night. the nbc news, "the door opened a very large man came in with a hammer in one hand, zip ties in the other and he said, where's nancy. i think they woke me up, pelosi testified." hit me in the head and that woke me up. david depape reveal add mind ripe with conspiracy theories saying he had targets. hunter biden, gavin newsom and former vice president mike pence and wanted to confront nancy pelosi about involvement in the 2016 elections. depape and his defense team never denied he attacked paul pelosi. he said they mounted a narrow defense. "whington post" report key question in the federal case whether he did thisse of nancy pelosi's performce of her job represented in san francisco and congress. after nine hours deliberations and two days, the jury found he did. that's where we start today with former assistant director counterintelligence at the fbi and former congressman from florida and nbc news political analyst david jolly and from the department of justice now an msnbc legal analyst and host of my favorite podcast, andrew. let's start with your reaction to the verdict. >> conviction of the day is really two stories in one. it's the tale of online radicalization, and it's a fascinating tale to study in what happens when someone hacks out on online addictalization and a tale how those who radicalized him respond when someone does their bidding. in this case we saw, you don't have to believe me. listen to depape's testimony and listen to what interviewing agents and officers took down when they interviewed him. he'll tell you the story. he was radicalized online. he was a qanon believer, all-in on the most ludacris conspiracy theories out there. all-in on it and told us about that. then look at how after paul pelosi was attacked, how the far right, how those online in the media who helped radicalized them. how they responded. they laughed. they joked. they didn't believe it. told viewers that wasn't us. they made jokes about nancy pelosi. they implied things that were simply not in evidence. and that's where we are, and as recently as last weekend, former president trump running again for president laughed and joked about pelosi, the who of them at a rally. >> i want to talk about comments from trump and others in the republican party. first, talk a little about the legal strategy. as i understand it, this was the defense's hail mary strategy. going to argue depape was in alternate reality. not about the fact nancy pelosi was a member of congress. and in doing so their hope was it would be tried at the state level and not the federal level. to me, that seems relative both in terms of this case and in terms of a lot of the cases judges said, i'm not even sure i can apply the maximum sentencing here, because the person is not tethered to reality? >> yeah. i think sort of a couple things going on. i think one of the things people might be confused by in your introduction, which got it totally right. >> okay. >> is that they might be saying, i don't understand. this guy breaks in, has a hammer. assaults this guy. what do you mean? federal? who cares why he did it? he attacked this guy. as long as he attacked him with intent to attack him, isn't this game over? the answer to that is that the state level, at the state level, where he is facing charges that would be the case. a separate state system where if he's charged with assault and did it intentionally, he can be convicted. at the federal level, you need some reason why it's a federal crime. here was sort of this extra element. did he do this because of nancy pelosi? because of her position? was that part of the motivation? so that's why the defense said this isn't a "whodunit" it's a "whydunit." at the state level defense, as you said, got to be essentially he's nuts. like, he doesn't really have the mental state to form the intent to have done this. i think that will be a hard argument, because he took the stand in the federal case, and while he had altered delusions and conspiracy theories, he articulated why he was there. and so it's going to be hard now at the state level to show where he is facing charges, to figure out what exactly his defense will be there. >> given the fact we're living in this sprawling discussion around political violence those who fight and those who react to incitement. if you're any of the other defense team or prosecutors what do you len from this case? >> i'm not sure you can go from this case to the january 6th case. the proof here is overwhelming, and, remember, the police when they came in had not only saw it themselves, they saw the attack. one of the outrageous things here is that the defendant acted in, with the police standing at the door. so even without the cameras they had, which a lot of this is recorded. you had the testimony of paul pelosi. the testimony of the agents, but also you had most of this on video. so it's -- it is true that in the january 6th case there are sentences of, snippets of video but that's a very different case, and i don't think the issue, what's your motive? which happens here is, it doesn't play as well and that's why you see so many convictions even in the january 6th cases you see here. >> david jolly, that image of andrew referenced, when we saw the door open and we saw paul pelosi there. it is burned on a collective frame. take a listen with that in mind. to what donald trump said just two weeks ago about paul pelosi. >> stand up to crazy nancy pelosi who ruined san francisco. how's her husband doing, by the way? anybody know? and she's against the wall at the border even though she has a wall around her house, which obviously didn't do a very good job. >> paraphrase the current president, no one who makes that type of remark is worthy of the office of the presidency. i have to imagine given that we have seen donald trump watch other people, receive punishment, the fact he's under more gag orders tells me today's verdict does not make it stop. what do you think? >> does not. what is also unsettling is the crowd's reaction. their affirmation, finding humor in the attack. to your point, this is an attack where video and audio is real. you get to experience it, and as frank said, the far right and conservative underworld jumped out with crazy, wild theories to kind of soften what should have been a national moment, and make light of it. you see donald trump continuing to do it today. the most important thing about that is we know from our domestic intelligence agencies over the past several years that the rise in politically motivated domestic violence is real. homeland violence is real. so in this situation, you have a moment where leaders of all political persuasions, all partisan persuasions, could come out condemn it and also say, here is my plan, if i am to be president, combat political violence. you're not seeing that. republican party making light of it, laugh about it, insult the former speaker and her husband in a time of critical national import. the rise in political violence is real, and in this case resulting in the attack on the former speaker's husband who fortunately survived. what happens the next time? we don't know. >> i think about all of this in the context of what we heard from ray and this week, right, talking about the sprawling threats against the homeland. talk to me specifically about the effect of comments like the ones, just heard it from trump, a few minutes ago? >> yeah. a solid track record now. the path well worn between rhetoric and far right from donald trump and extreme violence even fatal violence. we can go on and on for the next hour, if you'd like, from the church, the black church in south carolina. that shooter from the walmart, el paso. shooter who bought into the series at a buffalo supermarket, shooter who similarly thought we were being replaced. it's all coming from this echo chamber that people can't get out of, and i've got to say for those who say and dismiss all this, mental illness. these people are mentally ill. we're not doing this. kind of okay with it but understand we can't possibly anticipate the actions of someone who's mentally unstable. i say this. be awe salutely can. there's a track record of it, and a long list of people who might absolutely be mentally unstable but respond with extreme violence to the rhetoric continuously spewed from these far-right echo chambers. we'll see a lot of lawsuits some day when they can pinpoint the verbiage in someone's writings and rantings and the violence to the people who spewed it, and there will be consequences. >> i want to play something nancy pelosi said just a few days after the attack on her husband about the reaction to it from some on the right. let's listen. >> you would think there would be some level of responsibility, but what you see, you see what the reaction is on the other side to this. they make a joke of this, and, really, that is traumatizing too. nonetheless, forgetting them, there has to be some healing process, and democrats and republicans know that, as member of congress, anybody could be a target, and we can't, there's no guarantee, but we can -- in our democracy there is one party that is doubting the outcome of the election feeding that flame and mocking any violence that happens. that has to stop. >> i think of what she says there about anyone could be a target. the fact we know security detail, the fact reporting now about exchanges with other public members saying, love to stand with you but truly concerned for myself and my family. a year later, doesn't feel like anything's changed? >> it's difficult. we're sitting here talking about, gee, wouldn't it be great if politicians had the fortitude to not normalize violence? >> and such a low bar. >> it is such a low bar and worth remembering in light of this, the clip you played of nancy pelosi and also what you played of donald trump belittling the hammer attack. a near fatal attack on an 82-year-old man. as we now know, that he is now convicted by a jury beyond a reasonable doubt doing this because of her position in the government. that on monday, the court of appeals in d.c. will be deciding whether there should be a gag order on donald trump, and this is exactly what you were asking in that the words have effects. this defendant when he took the stand just said words to that affect and why he was acting on this. and donald trump's argument on appeal is, speculation people are going to act on what i say and i'm not responsible for that. i think the, what we have seen this week, this conviction, it really should be a clarion call to the court of appeals deciding whether violent rhetoric that the former president uses is going to be allowed to continue. >> so struck, david jolly, this is a week where we talked about what could be another government shutdown. talked about the ungovernable nature of the republican party, do they want to govern, can they govern? you said, this is bear minimum. right? an ability to step up and decry violence. if they can't do that, governing seems to fall to the wayside. >> yeah. we're all friends and i love the conversations. sometimes, though, it strikes me for people like, talking about it in lights term. republican authoritarian forces. what he's done, shameless should be condemned being a child in the way responding to this. leaders lead and leaders denounce political violence. leaders denounce the attack on paul pelosi. children, you know, in this case donald trump in a child-like behavior and impulse, selfish impulse devoid of character and judgment decided to make light of it and so do the people who follow him. shameful. rip off the varnish and call it a shameful moment from a repugnant former president without the moral character to lead. has that resulted in a party unable to govern? sure. who's going to follow that party into governing? take this tame attitude with everything they do. fred flintstone, barney rubble, whichever character goes in breaks up, beats things up, beats his chest saying i'm hero of the moment and has people around him saying, yes, you are. no, you're not. you're an idiot. in this moment call it what it is. somebody refusing to denounce violence and incapable of governing and asking for the opportunity to hold the keys to the white house four more years and they shouldn't let that happen. >> david jolly always calling it like it is. thank you for starting us off. andrew and david are sticking with me. when we come back, late breaking news in the civil trial against former president trump. now temporarily free from gag orders in both d.c. federal court and in new york. plus, a scathing report out today on congressman george santos. the republican announced he will not run again. calling for his removal months ago says that's not good enough saying now is the time. that's after a break. later, investigation into the fake election expanding. that and more when "deadline: white house" continues after this. do not go anywhere. this do not go anywhere. -dad, what's with your toenail? 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(♪♪) happy holidays. we're going to need a bigger tree. hey honey are you ok? everything's fine. hey, did i set the alarm? yes, you did. shop black friday deals at ring.com. the power goes out and we still have wifi shop black friday to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. hey, while you're there, grab more delectables. you know, that lickable cat treat. de-licka what? delectables. delickables? delectables. delickable delectables. yes, just hurry! hm. it must be delicious. got it. delectables lickable treat. ♪ deliciously de-lick-able delectables ♪ breaking news this afternoon. an appeals court temporarily lifted the gag order on donald trump and his attorney, $250 million civil fraud trial against the ex-president and new york. filed just a short time ago appeals court judge friedman temporarily lifted the order following trump for now. talking freely about the judge in this case. and as well as support staff trump previously targeted on social media. the ruling follows the gag order infringed on the ex-president's right to freedom of speech. back with david and andrew. were you surprissurprised? >> i'm not. so much what happened in the d.c. circuit. meaning the defendant here, donald trump, in d.c., he said the gag order was improper and i'm appealing it and what the appellate court said, okay. during the appeal we're going to put things on hold and keep it status quo and then hear your argument. essentially exactly what's happening at the state court level. for some reason a little more surprising, that the state court's gag order is so limited. i mean, this is a gag order that basically says, take a sharp pencil and stick it in your ear. this is, you know what? here's how i'm abridging your free speech. do not threaten the law clerk of the judge. i mean, that seems like it shouldn't have to be said. so that's the only process that's a little surprising. yes, said that it was donald trump then the lawyers, don't do it. no lawyer in their right mind thinks it's a good strategy if trying to get the judge to be on your side. really not a great thing to say, let me talk to your law clerk. and it really doesn't abridge in anyway his ability to run for office. as auv is said, you can actually run for office of the presidency in the united states and not distract violence or threaten the judge's law clerk. >> it's temporary. what type of timeline? >> november 27th. from the judge's order a time line for when papers have to be submitted and there is a motion date. so that is -- >> and -- >> 11 days they think. never do math in public but i think it's 1days. >> smart man. i had my abacus readily available to do the math for you. given what you know about donald trump, the fact he has 11 days of this temporary release, what's he going to do now? >> look, what i -- >> funny. >> funny you should ask. i assume as sitting here figuring what he'll do to take advantage of it. saw it exact, that exact thing happened in d.c. issued that temporary stay of the gag order he started social -- >> and given, just talking about, using this to end incendiary rhetoric and language and the cause you can cause a direct line to political violence in the real world. got 11 days where he's not going to have the whatever fear he does have of a gag order. going back to attacking the judge most likely. on future jurors and future witnesses, i mean, the institution of the judicial body? >> yeah. that's right. first of all, not to be overlooked in the first segment. andrew weissmann said your legal analysis was exactly right. worth updating. twitter profile, i tested that. congratulations. look, to your point, i think one of the reasons andrew's analysis always is perfect, the appellate judge said, look, balance donald trump's free speech versus whether or not this is actually interfering with the case. a civil case, not a jury. language not around tampering, trying to intimidate a jury or affect an outcome, it's complaining about the judge's staff. a stupid move. really intimidation? who knows. stick with the childish theme from the previous segment as well. who does that? not only not in your own legal interests, adults, what adult goes online complains about a clerk, tries to insult the people in a judicial forum that can affect the outcome of the judge, the final judgment? it's a thing that -- >> and right? i think we agree on the answer, which is aside from all of this, use of the type of person that does that, it is a person who believes it is political important for him to muddy the water. >> right. >> to claim this and to undermine all of the institutions that have upheld this country and this democracy since its founding. >> right. the credibility of the forum ultimately designed by our founders to hold him accountable. to kneecap the judicial branch you ultimately have to make a judgment about him. to the point, and also somebody willing to accept violence in the country, benefit of it personally or politically. a civil case in new york about money. play it out, though, in the jack smith trial or the georgia trial where the president's only liberty is actually on the line. his own freedom is on the line. what we know from what we continue to see is that the leak to either jury intimidation or frankly a call to arms from either a lone actor or political movement saying we are going to now interfere with the forum. now going to interfere with the courtroom. interfere with the judge, but with a jury, puts us right back into the paul pelosi situation. why he is not fit to lead, should not return to the white house. the fact he is there in the first place is a shameful mark on u.s. history. >> ask this, this motion from this trial a mistrial, you have an appeal. any relationship to one another? >> in some ways. just remember each court is going to be looking at the sort of facts of their case and the law that's relative to their case. i think there is -- i think there's a relationship of the two gag orders, in terms of intimidation. in terms of witness tampering and in terms looking at this whether there is, as was said, a track record. that part is the same, but i think that there's separate facts raised by both. i want to comment on one thing, which is in georgia, the bail conditions for donald trump and all of the 19 defendants there is that he cannot intimidate witnesses. and there are in fact, there is a pending motion brought with respect to one of the defendants for that very, very exact ground. it will be really interesting to see whether fani willis looks at all this going on. looks at what donald trump says now, to your point, which is he may be thinking, oh, there's no gag order in new york, no gag order at the moment in d.c. depending what he says if he does things, in my view, actually already done things that are just like, like mr. floyd in georgia, whether fani willis brings this same motion which is to have his bail lifted. >> that story later. no one going anywhere. up next, republican george santos, it's out. what we are learning at the cash-strapped man. detail what is next for him on capitol hill. that's next. come with the ucard — one simple member card that opens doors for what matters. what if we need to see a doctor away from home? 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>> i mean, look, we've always known george santos was a fraud and a liar, but the level and shredding of his crimes, it's breathtaking. he had someone basically that took all his campaign funds into a personal slush fund, created his own personal fund to buy everything from going to sephora to pornography, to going to, on his last shopping spree, a checking account and all of this using funds folks gave him that trusted him to do the right thing. we, of course, nine months ago when first filed the resolution, that he was a fraud, created this whole story to get elected, of course, back then, republicans decided not to remove him from congress. instead chose to do this ethics report after our resolution. the report's out. they have nothing else to do at this point but to expel him. very damning not just for george santos but republicans trying to save him for the last now nine months. one of the things is really clear here. don't forget indicted 23 counts. george santos has no business being in congress and time to get him out. >> a word you have votes tallied. people you believe are persuadable and can be moved on this expulsion. your sense looking at what i'm guessing is rough math, preliminary conversations. do you think this is the moment where you will have the votes to push for this? expel george santos? >> absolutely. we're going to the fall the expulsion resolution papers first day back and republicans want to do the same. great. welcome to do so. more expulsions the better against him. glad they're finally onboard. what we're seeing today is first republicans are coming out that voted not to expel him saying publicly we'll vote to expel. critical. seeing democrats some of which weren't exactly sure from a tiny perspective. wanted the ethics report done, they're onboard. basically the democratic party and you'll have i believe enough republicans that is needed for us to get him out of congress and i hope it's overwhelming. there is one member of congress that should think about his actions, to be in the house. do it with decency should have resigned a long time ago. not going to. we're going to expel him. >> andrew, this report says about money that went to donors to a company called red stone strategy, which was in effect -- a quote. october 21, 2022, red stone's bank account received a$25,000 wire from an account affiliated th contributor two. from theres $25,000 was transferred from red stone's account to representative santos'ersonal checking account. on october 26, 2022, red stone's bank account received as $25,000 wire from account affiliated with ctributor one. on the same date thes $25,000 was transferred from red stone to a different personal checking account owned by representative santos after the $50,000 from redstone deposited into representative santos account, used to pay down dead, make a $4,000 purchase and smaller purchases at onlyfans for meals and parking. done these types of investigations and seen this. what does this tell you? >> this is the reason he is under indictment. he is indicted for fraud. i have to really commend the congressman for taking action, because he just covered in the first segment, the criminal justice system at work with mr. depape and it works. they can incapacitate him and bring him to trial. here, there is an ongoing harm, because you were somebody who will have his day in court criminally but a body in congress that can take action. because they're not prosecuting him criminally. just saying he shouldn't be in congress sitting there. there's an ongoing harm, and basically they think they have votes to do it. it's great they're saying, we have a responsibility to the american people to take action, and not just say, let the criminal justice system do its work. they're completely different decisions. one is whether someone is going to be going to prison. this is a decision whether he should have the honor of serving in congress after this report, where he, by the way, had an opportunity to be heard and participate, and, of course, said he essentially blew it off. so i think it's really -- >> blew it off not to call him as a witness understanding there was going to be very little evidentiary value testimony should he even choose to give it. >> exactly. >> i want to ask you, congressman, talked about republicans bringing similar measures. where is speaker mike johnson in all of this? >> mike johnson's latest comments have been really about protecting george santos. we're just waiting to see what he has to say, but if he has any decency, he'd be the first one calling george santos for expulsion. we've been trying to get these republicans onboard for now nine months. so it is time to do the right thing. i think mike johnson should take a leadership role here get him expelled. clearly we have republicans on the ethics committee voting want to vote to expel him. i think we'll finally get this done. i think george santos will have to face his day in court. also not a chance to serve the republic. access to classified briefing, lied to constituents. people of new york and the country. he should be ashamed of himself. so it's time. his time's up. >> david jolly, the congressman hasn't been on our air for a long time making his case. what does it mean that it took this long to get republicans onboard? >> they're not willing to hold their own accountable. it goes to the slim margin in the house. at least there is a rhythm to these investigations. someone who's worked tz with the house several decades. a rhythm to these investigations and results in a culmination we're seeing now. which is in many cases, if you are indicted, you choose to resign, but the house waits to see in your due process play out. take you off committees, but if convicted resign or expel. santos decided no the to resign in face of an indictment. now an internal ethics report saying he brought ill repute upon the house. time for his colleagues like the congressman to render whether or not he should stay in the house. your question about mike johnson is everything now. in the middle of these investigations historically, this is the moment it lands in the lap of the speaker. historically you've seen the speaker say, time for you to leave. you saw santos announce i'm not running for re-election, because he's trying to fill a void, trying to head off that confrontation. right now speaker johnson should say, george santos, time for you to resign or i as speaker will make sure you're expelled. based on his comments to sean hannity, mike johnson isn't going to do that. worried about the historically thin majority and given deference to stay. due process. he had it among colleagues and house ethics. is that due process sufficient for mike johnson to change his mind from two weeks ago? that's the question for the speaker. we all should expect an answer soon. >> watching for that answer. thank you for joining us. andrew back later. david's sticking around. up next, how the ex-president's strategy linking his very really felony charges to that of oppressed citizens living under authoritarian rule? specifically in the state of florida. show you the latest victims, next. hi, my name is damion clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a healthy options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. and our large networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. so, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. humana. a more human way to healthcare. ♪ we're building a better postal service. with easy, more affordable ways to ship. so you can deliver even more holiday joy. the united states postal service. delivering for america. family is just very important. she's my sister and, we depend on each other a lot. she's the rock of the family. she's the person who holds everything together. ♪♪ it's a battle, you know i'm going to be there. keytruda and chemotherapy meant treating my cancer with two different types of medicine. in a clinical trial, keytruda and chemotherapy was proven to help people live longer than chemotherapy alone. keytruda is used to treat more patients with advanced lung cancer than any other immunotherapy. keytruda may be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you have advanced nonsquamous, non-small cell lung cancer and you do not have an abnormal “egfr” or “alk” gene. keytruda can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. this may be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, severe nausea or vomiting, headache, light sensitivity, eye problems, irregular heartbeat, extreme tiredness, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in appetite, thirst, or urine, confusion, memory problems, muscle pain or weakness, fever, rash, itching, or flushing. there may be other side effects. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, including immune system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, received chest radiation, or have a nervous system problem. it feels good to be here for them. living longer is possible. it's tru. keytruda from merck. ask your doctor about keytruda. never lose money betting on trump going low. latest effort trying to weaponize his legal troubles to though the vorters of latin-american descent. latin-americans socialists, awe authoritarian rule and back with the electorate sector. >> people know it political persecution, it's a political hoax. they've weaponized the justice department. weaponized the fbi and come after me with the worst indictment. nobody's ever done this in this country. this is for third world countries, banana republic. if it happens to me it can happen to em. >> thankfully that is not without backlash. a veteran news anchor for univision and a los angeles tv station designed in aftermath of the spanish language recently interviewed former president trump. a democratic pollster and analyst is with us, and david back with us. talk about a new messaging effort by trump? >> once again an effort by trump to try to distracts the authoritarian strongman, what he is, from covering the eyes of in this case hispanic voters. look, he's trying this wolf in sheep's clothing approach. truth of the matter is donald trump is a wolf, in wolf's clothing, when he comes to what he represents for his panics not just voter, kniss hispanic residing in the united states. that what you just played reminiscent of the leader interviews from cuba, venezuela, north korea and russia. donald trump talked about creating concentration-style camps to round up the undocumented immigrants in this country and getting rid of them, compared them to hannibal lecter from the "silence of the lamb" movie, and open transparent nazi-style language. if latin-american voters fall for this ruse they're going to pay a very heavy price if they open the door and allow the wolf inside. >> and things you know well. you're a cuban from florida. i am a cuben from new jersey. very often talk about cubans as a political party. venezuelans in florida and nicaraguans, it's that the margin was starting. doesn't need to win the voters. just make small inlands. when you take the two stories seen this week, the shift at univision and then this rhetorical shift on the part of trump. i wonder what alarms you most? >> well, you put your finger on it from a numbers perspective, what my job is to look at. donald trump is not going to win the hispanic vote in 2024. you pointed to, taking an extra point two or three can represent the difference between carrying a state like arizona or nevada and losing. a very cynical calculated ploy and this is why did demands and overwhelming counterresponse by the democratic party. to not allow that socialist branding donald trump is right now using and running wit without the response i think is necessary, robust enough to countermessage that. if he doesn't have that effort and is able to pick off another point or two or three it could it could be cataclysmic for the democrats. >> david, talk to us about the irony of trump falsely claiming to be the victim of authoritarianism himself. >> recently saying in another interview, if he gets there, he'll do the same tactics, because it's okay if he does that, what he's accused the democrats and the department of justice of doing. he's taking lessons from governor desantis're-election. there's reason to worry. when the republicans started to brand democrats as socialists, i thought it was ridiculous. they said socialist democrat sticks. they'll make inroads around this. when they go into the community, republican expose their implicit biases. they believe it's a demographic that only has one issue, but they ignore all communities want good quality education, good quality health care, good quality jobs regardless of whether they have a high school education, college education or no education. they want a democracy that protects their own vote. none of that is discussed when republicans talk to communities of color and the latino community. it's not only an implicit bias, but it's obvious to the person observing this that they're not interested in policy, but they're just interested in the vote. >> thank you both so punch for spending time with us. i'm sneak in a quick break and we'll be right back.ight back. hey, grab more delectables. you know, that lickable cat treat? de-lick-able delectables? yes, just hurry. hmm. it must be delicious. delein a crisis causedreat. by a terrorist massacre. warning civilians to clear out, while hamas forces them back. allowing in food and water, which hamas steals. ♪♪ if you're on medicare, remember, the annual enrollment period is here. the time to choose your coverage begins october 15th and ends december 7th. so call unitedhealthcare and see how you can get more of what matters, with our broad range of plans including an aarp medicare advantage plan from unitedhealthcare. it can combine your hospital and doctor coverage with part d prescription drug coverage, and more, all in one simple plan. these plans are made to support your whole health with $0 annual physical exams, $0 lab tests and $0 preventive care like mammograms and colonoscopies. and you'll get more for your medicare dollar with $0 copays on most covered dental services a $0 eye exam and an allowance for eyewear plus $0 copays on hundreds of prescriptions, at the pharmacy or by mail. now's the time to look at unitedhealthcare's variety of plans. so give us a call to learn more about coverage options in your area. with our right plan promise, you have our commitment to helping you find the right plan for your needs. and to help make life with medicare simpler, you'll get the all-in-one member ucard. only from unitedhealthcare, the ucard is your unitedhealthcare member id and much more. show your ucard when you visit your primary care provider, dentist or eye doctor, or fill a prescription at the pharmacy. and use it to access medicare advantage's largest national network of providers. you can count on unitedhealthcare to help you get the care you need, when you need it. enrollment ends december 7th. now's the time to learn more about america's most chosen medicare advantage plans and how they can open doors to a simpler healthcare experience with the all-in-one ucard. call unitedhealthcare today about the only medicare advantage plans with the aarp name and get more of what matters to you. (music ends) a campaign for congress by the army veteran who filed the report that led to the first impeachment of the disgraced ex president. he's running for a congressional seat in virginia four years after gaining national attention for reporting a claim made by his twin brother alexander vindman. vindman is the first democrat to join the race for the seat in virginia. he announced his reason for running for congress, quote, the clear and present danger of donald trump and the 147 members of congress who voted to overthrow the will of the american people. we need leaders with honesty, experience and judgment. we'll be watching that race. up next, the electors in another state now reportedly under investigation. that story when "deadline white house" continues. white house" continues (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. ♪♪ i've never said not going to prosecute. i haven't said i could do nothing. what i have said is that we don't have statutes in this state that directly address the issue. i want to be clear about this. i don't make prosecutorial decisions based on political preferences. never have. it's 5:00 in new york. i'm alicia menendez in for nicolle wallace. that is nevada's attorney general aaron ford who has remained tight lipped about whether he would prosecute fake electors from his state. new reporting from "politico" reveals the attorney general is investigating those individuals. quote, in recent weeks investigators have questioned witnesses about the attempts of so-called alternate electors. that's according t three people familiar with the probe. investigators aedbout documents those peoplerepared as part of the effort. the probe which until now has not been publicly reported is e latest sign of political jeopardy for republicans who posed as electors in states that biden won in the last presidential election. nevada and its six electoral votes went for president biden who won the state. six republicans including nevada party chair signed a fake electoral certificate which they sent to washington, d.c., falsely declaring trump as the winner of nevada. two of those under the nevada ag's investigation appeared before the d.c. grand jury investigating january 6th. mcdonald was questioned by the committee where he invoked the ft amendment over 2 tes. the status of ford's probe is unclear. nevada is just one of seven states where fake elector submitted fake votes. in michigan the attorney general has charged 16 fake electors with eight felonies each. fulton county georgia charged three fake electors and the attorney general of arizona has signalled she's looking into the fake electors from her state. we start with betsy swan and mark elias and msnbc legal analyst andrew wiseman is back. betsy, let's start with you. what did you uncover? >> we know the nevada attorney general is looking at this issue despite the fact that earlier this year he signalled it was not an issue he believed warranted a criminal investigation. there are usually two reasons that criminal investigators change their views in situations like this. one might be their analysis of the law changes. another might be their understanding of the facts as to what happened changed. we have no reason to believe it's the former in the case of nevada's attorney general. there are outstanding questions about what facts his office has gathered as they've been casting a wide net to interview people who were close to the mechanisms and the inner workers of nevada's presidential election in 2020. one person i spoke with on the record for this story was the registrar of clark county, that's the largest county in nevada. this was the person supervising so much of the way that nevada's election worked in his accounting in 2020. he told me he had been in contact with a state investigator who was seeking information about those alternate electors. we know these investigators are asking about the meeting the fake electors had on september 14th where they put forward their claim they were the true electors. they're asking about the documents in question that the fake electors prepared in order to try to present themselves as viable representatives of the nevada vote. >> andrew, what does that indicate to you? >> a serious question that i have for betsy is where in god's green earth has this attorney general been? i mean, this is something that -- i'm not saying you're at the point where you should bring the criminal case. my word, we're seeking an investigation now? did you not listen to the january 6th committee hearings? you should have been ahead of that. even if you weren't ahead of it, where have you been? i could understand in pennsylvania why the facts are a little different there because the electors there insisted that they wanted specific language that said they're contingent electors. they're only there if a court determined they were actually the real electors. that's a very different thing than posing as the real electors and having a piece of paper saying we're the real electors because they could give it to congress so it would be a reason to overturn the will of the people. i don't understand why it's taken this long. >> i'm put a pin in your question. i want to look at one of the nevada fake electors, that's the ate gop chair michael mcdonald. a close personal frienhip with trump and in recent months h visited mar-a-lago as part of a nevada delegation trump was courting for endorsements. mcdonald testified before the january 6th committee where he invoked his fifth amendment more than 200 times. what type of information would they be seeking from him? what is he able to offer? >> the fact that he's a close personal friend would give him a motive to pose as a fake elector. you want to know his intent when he participated in this scheme. was he told by a lawyer that it was legit? it's hard for me to see the advise of counsel defense that's been floated at various times because the theory here is that you're posing as a fake elector. you're not here as a contingent one waiting for the court to say you're real. you're posing as the real elector but you know you haven't complied with the legal rules to be an elector. you definitely want those pieces. you also want to know from him what conversations he had with, for instance, the former president. the one final piece because i'm a lawyer, which is taking the fifth amendment, there's nothing wrong with that. we can talk about it, but it's his right to take the fifth amendment and for the government to prove its case without that testimony. >> i appreciate that asterisk from you. mark, each state is different in terms of its statutes which was what the nevada ag was referencing. what's the likelihood of these fake electors being charged in nevada? >> there's some aggravating factors in nevada. i was the lawyer for president biden and the dnc in an election contest brought by donald trump to try to, through the courts, overturn the outcome of that election. that election contest was resolved by the state's supreme court. to the point these fake electors were signing this document, there was no contingency left. the state supreme court ruled that joe biden won the election. it's worth noting that biden had won the election by 2.5%. it wasn't a close election. the final thing, unlike almost any other state, their elections are certified by their state supreme court, not just by the secretary of state. there may be some angle here that involves that process because before the governor signs the certificate of ascertainment that goes to the national archives, the state supreme court puts its seal on the final election results. that's nevada. in terms of how this fits into this national picture, it's important that the rule of law be upheld and all the people who participated in this scheme be prosecuted under what statutes are available. i have a lot of confidence in attorney general ford. >> betsy, you write about a tie between these fake electors and the others. can you talk about that? >> yeah. one of these fake electors was in touch with kenneth cheseboro. there was an email exchange, one email cited in the january 6th committee showing there appeared to be coordination between trump's lawyers and the people on the ground in nevada. one of the biggest outstanding questions about ford's investigation is whether he's looking at the trump campaign operatives and allies who played an instrumental and essential role in organizing this alternate elector scheme, this fake elector scheme we saw play out. many people view the fake electors as tools, people who knowingly and deliberately participated but at the direction of trump, of trump's lawyers and of trump's allies. one of the biggest questions related to the nevada probe is is aaron ford going to follow the strategy that michigan's attorney is taking and just go after the alternate electors themselves or will the shape of his election look like fulton county's, looking at not just the fake electors, but people in trump's orbit who played a pivotal role in the activities these electors participated in? >> what do you think about that question of scope? >> i think that's a great point because when you look at the jack smith indictment, it is talking about a top-down scheme, that this is orchestrated from the trump campaign to the field. this wasn't some grassroots project that a particular state said, oh, there's an issue here. everyone talks about hawaii in 1960. that's not what you're seeing from either jack smith or fani willis. i think that connectiity to the trump campaign is essential. if you're the attorney general, you want to know that piece as well and if the facts bear out to bring all those people to justice. >> we're talking about an ek election that happened three years ago, but it's not that far out of the horizon. the congress passed the electoral count reform act. remind us what it does and how it prevents fake electors to do what they did in 2020 understanding there will be other shenanigans under way. >> i want to talk about that last point. republicans are trying to make it harder to vote. congress closed the door on one of them. they passed the electoral reform count act. it took steps to ensure that there are no more fake electors. it did things that will reform the system to deal with the problems, some of the problems, we saw in 2020. that doesn't mean we should let our guard down. we know that just as we sit here today talking about how to protect fear and fair elections there are people associated with the republican party that are coming up with new creative ways to undermine them. >> stay on that point because there's the actual act of being able to vote. there's also this sense that we talk about, voter motivation, about getting voters out to vote, that their vote matters and their vote will be counted and the institution, the time they're being asked to take out of their day is actually going to mean something, that it's going to have value. there's the damage that is done by their actual attempts at fraud and then there is the damage that is done in the undermining of elections across this country. >> yeah. it's a super important point. everyone needs to hear this loud and clear. if you tell people that the system is rigged and that their vote won't count, why wait in line to vote? if you tell people that they are not welcome to vote, that you don't want them to vote in your community, that you want to make it harder for them to vote, a lot of people will say why do i want to engage in that? why be part of that? when you see election vigilantism, whether it's the activity in georgia where conservative operatives handed out these spreadsheets to disenfranchise georgia voters, it sends a clear message to voters that they're not welcome. it's important that day after day the work that you do and the work the media does to highlight these efforts, it's critical because we need to instill in people the confidence that, if they vote, their vote will count. if they're running into obstacles there are people whether they're lawyers like me or activists, they'll fight to make sure they're given the opportunity to vote. >> andrew, there was a development in the trump's classified documents trial. it made you concerned about the judge's bias. what happened? >> judge cannon in the last week issued two separatecisions. she's keeping, for now, the trial date. she's sort of blocking any judge, georgia, blocking the may trial date. she's sitting there with that date. she said she'll revisit march 1st whether she'll keep that date. everything she's doing with the classified documents and the schedule was pushing that way off. the government asked her yesterday to schedule a particular hearing. it's a very routine hearing. i won't bore you with the details. she basically said, denied. she's pushed off all these internal dates of when things are due and when she'll hold hearings. for all of us in the know it's clear there's no way this could possibly go on may 20th, but by not moving the trial date, she's also preventing any other trial from being scheduled. i think this is sort of a very -- something to keep your eye on, her gamesmanship. >> we've seen the graphic of the dates playing out on a narrow calendar with a tight timeline. betsy, thank you for bringing us your reporting, mark, andrew, thank you for being with us. we're following reports from the middle east about a potential deal that could be near to free a large number of hostages held by hamas at the gaza strip. also, where things stand now in the trump civil trial now that an appeal judge has denied the gag order. we'll get a debrief from suzanne craig from the "new york times." don't go anywhere. and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪ along with significantly clearer skin... skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi 90% clearer skin and less joint pain are possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to skyrizi, there's nothing like clearer skin and better movement... and that means everything. ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time to ask your doctor about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. students... students of any age, from anywhere. using our technology to power different ways of learning. so when minds grow, opportunities follow. ♪ she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic involved. 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(vo) black friday starts now. turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon. you're on our mind every single day. i'm working on how i can be helpful on getting the hostages released. there are somewhere between 50 and 100 hostages. >> there is a 3-year-old american child. >> you're darn right. that's why i'm not going to stop. >> president biden's message last night to the 230 hostages in gaza, still deeply involved and mildly hopeful he says about the negottis to free dozens of th. there's no reporting from the "new york times" that sior israeli officials say a deal seems to be near. hamas released 50 women and children in exchange for palestinian women and children held in israel jails. "the new york times" also reports israel believes its targeted hospital believes that the raid will help stop hamas. joining us now is erin mcloughlin in tel aviv. what's the latest happening inside al-shifa hospital? >> reporter: alicia, the israeli military raided the al-shifa hospital according to israeli military spokesperson. they went building by building, floor by floor, room by room looking for evidence of a hamas terror cell. today announcing that they found what they allege is the entrance to a tunnel shaft on the hospital grounds as well as a vehicle full of what they allege is a hamas weapon -- nbc has been unable to verify those claims. it comes under pressure for israel's allegations saying this is a hamas bunker buried deep underneath the hospital. we have been unable to reach hospital staff inside the complex to verify that given that there's a new total communications blackout over northern gaza. yesterday i reached the director of the burns unit inside the hospital and he described just this desperate and dire situation, more than 600 patients, many of them in critical condition. he said there was very little food, very little water, no electricity, no fuel, no oxygen. he was worried about the higher rate at which the patients were dying. pointing to the 80 bodies he says they buried just this week in the hospital courtyard. he was pleading with the international community for help in facilitating the full evacuation of the hospital and, yet, still no word tonight on when that evacuation is going to happen. meanwhile the israeli military announcing the tragic death of an israeli hostage. judith weis, they say her building was found near the al-shifa complex. no cause of death was given. her family has been notified of her death. news of her death is likely to put more pressure on those ongoing hostage negotiations. >> nbc's erin mcloughlin for us, thank you. joining us now senator chris coons. senator, help us make sense of where the hostage negotiations stand and the efforts by president biden. he says five, six times of day he's working on their release. >> president biden has been tireless and the senior leadership in the administration have been working to connect with the families of the hostages, to engage the qataris who have a relationship with hamas to try to close the gap and get to a final hostage deal. just yesterday a large group of senators met with the families of americans held hostage by hamas in gaza. there are other american hostages wrongfully detained americans around the world. i met yesterday with the family of evan geskowitz a "wall street journal" reporter detained in russia. a piece of a likely deal here will be a seven-day pause in the fighting by israel, humanitarian relief, fuel and food and medical supplies into gaza in exchange for the release of dozens of unjustly kidnapped civilians from israel currently held by hamas. >> senator, the president says he's mildly hopeful. any sense of timeline? >> this deal has been close to being concluded for several days now. i had a chance to meet with john and rachel whose son hersh goldberg was taken by hamas. it is excruciating for them. you can feel it when you're with them. every day not knowing if their son is alive, not knowing if he'll be released. the whole world should be calling for hamas to allow the red cross to visit with the hostages, to confirm they're alive and they're being humanely cared for. they should immediately release them. there's no justification for holding 3-year-olds, 85-year-olds, children and grandmothers. it's my hope the timeline will be short and they'll be released soon. >> senator, let's zoom out. john kirby said the white house believes while israel can dramatically reduce the threat of hamas' ability to recruit, to execute attacks, that it's impossible to fully eliminate hamas and its ideology. i wonder if, given those remarks, how you see this ending. >> just a month ago i went on a bipartisan trip to the region and we had conversations about that question. how does this end? what's the next stage? we met with the crown prince of saudi arabia and with the senior leadership of israel, both military and elected. my hope -- a conversation i laid out there with israeli leadership, is they'll take serious the idea after decapitating hamas and imposing serious costs on hamas, they'll turn to making peace regionally, to embracing the two-state solution and a path forward for the palestinian people. clearly the strategy of recent years has not worked. that would be a very big change in direction for netanyahu and his coalition. there has to be bold rethinking of what's going to happen next in order to find a path forward for gaza, post-hamas and in order to bring the regional arab states into a long-term fight against hamas to make sure it doesn't rejuvenate in gaza and threaten israel once again in the future. >> senator, before i l you go, i want to get your reaction to your colleague, senator tuberville, his nine-month hold on 400 military promotions, even as members of his own party took to the floor again to rebuke him. lindsey graham saying he would support a resolution to bypass his blockade. what's the holdup? >> the holdup is senator tuberville is doing something never done. he's politicizing the american military. i understand he has a policy disagreement with president biden. no one in the time that i've been here or in decades before has held up the promotion of generals and admirals in order to make a political point. tuberville needs to be told by his own caucus, stop it. he needs to pay some price here and the path forward for us is to make a rules change focussed on this specific matter in a way that gets bipartisan support. i'm encouraged that my colleagues, republicans who are former members of the military, senator sullivan and ernst and young and graham have taken to the floor to demand that senator tuberville stop blocking hundreds of officer promotions. >> senator chris coons, thank you for your time. when we return, breaking news in the federal trial of breonna taylor. the federal trial of the officer accused of violating the rights of taylor. we're back with that. we're back with that or pd. you're not alone, there is hope. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose and treat pd. visit makeapdplan.com today. at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your original medicare deductibles, but they may have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. humana medicare advantage prescription drug plans include medical coverage, plus prescription drug coverage. and coverage for dental, vision, and hearing, all wrapped up into one convenient plan. plus, there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs! humana has large networks of doctors, hospitals and specialists across 49 states. so, call or go online today and get your free decision guide. humana - a more human way to healthcare. news out of louisville in one of the most watched civil rights cases in the nation. breonna taylor was the young african american medical worker who was shot and killed after a botched police raid in 2020. her death led to demonstrations and calls for e. today we have news. in the past hour a judge declared a mistrial after the jury deadlocked in the civil rights charged. the office in question brett hankison was charged with using excessive force and violating the rights of breonna taylor, her boyfriend and neighbors. hankinson fired ten shots into taylor's window after officers came under fire during the flawed search. joining us now is shaq brewster, host of politics nation on msnbc reverend al sharpton. shaq, what happened here? >> the judge declared a mistrial after the jury said they were deadlocked. they couldn't reach a conclusion on those two civil rights charges against brett hankison. he's the former louisville police officer who was involved in that, as you mentioned, march 2020 raid inside breonna taylor's apartment. let's remind viewers of the facts here. this was months before the murder of george floyd. it was part of that social justice movement and the calls for reform. according to breonna taylor's boyfriend who was in the apartment at the time they woke up during this overnight raid. they heard noise at the front door. when they went toward the door police busted in and he used his legal weapon to fire one shot at an officer, striking one in the leg. that's when police returned fire, a hail of 30 bullets. brett hankison was one of the officers part of that raid. while he didn't shoot breonna taylor, she was shot multiple times and died in that raid, prosecutors say he went above and beyond. he used reckless force when he fired through a window and a sliding glass door that were both covered with blinds and a curtain. he fired blindly in their words. brett hankison testified in this case. he said he felt he had no choice. he thought this was an ambush on his officers and a jury that was evenly split with men and women, six women, six men, one black man, dead locked and couldn't agree on a verdict. he was accused of not just violating breonna taylor's civil rights, but also the civil right offense her boyfriend and a family in a neighboring apartment where some of his bullets ended up. there was a young child in that family. the judge says this will now go to another hearing. there will be a hearing next month looking into what happens next. the federal government and the federal prosecutors have the option of bringing this back to the jury -- i should say back to trial. one other point, hankinson went through a state trial dealing with similar charges last year and he was acquitted in that trial. it's a serious question on whether or not the federal government wants to go through this process again. >> reverend sharpton, we talk a lot about justice and accountability. we've heard many advocates say there can't be justice for breonna taylor, the only justice would be for her to be alive, but accountability there could be. your response as you watch what has unfolded today. >> i think this is outrageous. when you look at the fact that, if hankinson is allowed to go away with no penalties at all, we are saying that this is a federal trial -- that police officers have the right to shoot multiple times when there's not a clear target, when they're not under extenuating circumstances and randomly shoot. that not only puts the lives of the people in their home legally that have not committed a crime, wasn't suspected of a crime, but even the neighbor and the child of the neighbor at risk. where is the civil rights of breonna taylor? where is the civil rights of her boyfriend? where's the civil rights of the neighbor? this would set a serious precedent in this country which is why the federal government must pursue this case until there is a verdict. you cannot have a federal precedent based on i couldn't see through the blinds and somebody shoots ten shots. it puts us all at risk. this is an absolute disgraceful position to put all of us in. i hope and i will be urging the federal government to pursue this beyond this deadlock today. >> rev, here's the thing, there's a visceral response across this country to breonna taylor's death. there were a lot of people who felt like they knew breonna taylor, like the relationship was one they recognized and knew. for people who went out into the streets and protested, for people who wanted to make sure that breonna taylor's name and story stayed in the forefront, what do you say to them today? >> i say to them, because we went to the streets, breonna taylor's police officers were indicted in kentucky. in ahmed aubrey's case we got convictions. in george floyd's case we got convictions. this is not an acquittal. it's a dead lock. we have to keep on going until we unlock the deadlock. it's because of a lot of activism on the ground, tamika palmer, the mother of breonna taylor, that the attorney general of that state did not win his race and lost to a democrat. sometimes you may lose a round, but the fight is not over. it's a long fight. we'll keep fighting until we win. >> activism no mother should have to do. shaquille brewster, reverend al sharpton, thank you. shifting gears, we'll talk about where things stand in the trump civil trial. the gag order has been paused and the prosecutors have ripped into donald trump's motion for a mistrial. that's ahead. black friday is coming at wayfair! it's time to light. up. the savings! shop big deals from nov 21st through the 27th. get bedroom furniture up to 55% off. area rugs up to 70% off. lighting up to 55% off. and fast shipping on everything! plus, pay your way with the wayfair credit card. shop big deals with wayfair's black friday and shop early deals now! ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ ♪♪ we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪ we're not an airline, but our network connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets. ♪♪ we're not a startup, but our innovation labs use new technologies to help keep your information secure. ♪♪ we're not architects, but we help build stronger communities. ♪♪ we're not just any bank. we are citi. ♪♪ before my doctor and i chose breztri for my copd, i had bad days, (cough, cough) flare-ups that could permanently damage my lungs. with breztri, things changed for me. breztri gave me better breathing. starting within 5 minutes, i noticed my lung function improved. it helped improve my symptoms, and breztri was even proven to reduce flare-ups, including those that could send me to the hospital. so now i look forward to more good days. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. can't afford your medication? 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(vo) black friday starts now. turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. lift of the trump gag order in the $250 million civil fraud lawsuit in new york late this afternoon, there was a new filing from letitia james. it's a sharp response to a head-scratching motion for dismissal. attorneys for the disgraced ex president are accusing the judge of bias during the proceedings, citing some of his rulings as they describe as impropriety. ag james argued the challenge is without merit. joining our conversation is suzanne craig. sue, explain how we got here the motion filed by donald trump's team and how the office of the attorney general responded today. >> well, how we got here, this has been a long time in the making. i remember sitting in court in the early days when the first sort of, i think, signs that this was coming happened and it was -- it happened on social media. donald trump and his team found a picture of the judge's law clerk with a picture of her with chuck schumer and he puts on the internet the law clerk, who is sitting next to the judge, is chuck schumer's girlfriend, which isn't true. that went out there and infuriated the judge. since then, the trump team, including donald trump, have been going after the law clerk. the law clerk, just to paint a picture of this in the courtroom, she sits next to the judge. they often confer. they have seized on her and have noted things like she's a democrat. she happens to be running for a judgeship. she has made donations to the democratic party. they keep going after her and the judge has put two gag orders in place on this to narrow not what donald trump and his lawyers can say about the judge, but what they can say about his staff and that's specifically the clerk. this has been a long drawn-out thing leading to today -- or this week where we've had the mistrial has come up. they filed for a mistrial. in the documents they call her the co-judge. they say she's the co-judge in the case. it's completely inappropriate even though that's her job. they're asking for a ruling on having the case thrown out for a complete mistrial. >> sue, help me understand something. we always talk about the trump tactic of delay, delay, delay. if trump's team, if they're just playing for time hoping to draw this thing out until the election, why did the office of the attorney general ask for oral arguments on the motion to have not before december 8th? >> well, i think -- you know, there's a proceeding going on that's playing out beyond this, which is what's going to happen in the appellate court. i think the attorney general wants a full hearing on this so things are put down in writing. transcripts are very important on appeal. i think they want to make a full case and they want to be heard on this. that's what we're see there. >> sue, you have watched this trial since the beginning. the gag order now temporarily lifted. they've got about 11 days. the material effect that will have both on donald trump and on the future of this trial? >> well, it's interesting because there's going to be a hearing and the gag order may be put back into effect. i think the, you know, judge that ruled on that today -- i have some notes. his language is interesting. he said the supreme court's gag orders entered during the nonjury trial in the underlying proceeding are unconstitutional and sanctions imposed. sorry. that was one of the -- that was the trump argument being made. the judge said, considering the constitutional issues, an interim stay is granted. they want to make sure this is heard out. it may be the gag order is put back in place. i think what we'll be watching for is how the trump team responds to that. >> your sense of how the trump team will respond to that? >> you know what, i always sort of lean on what they've done in the past. i would imagine in court going forward we'll see a lot more rhetoric about the clerk. i think his lawyers in particular -- donald trump will likely not be in court for the next week. i would potentially think we'll see more comments about the clerk. i mean, just based on past behavior. >> suzanne craig, thank you for spending time with us. a quick break, but before we go we have a special sneak preview of a new msnbc film premiering this sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern "periodical." >> periods? >> i [ bleep ] hate having my periods. >> when i was growing up, we didn't speak about it. >> i never had the period talk with my mom or dad. >> i think women's bodies are political. >> it's part of life. we've suppressed that knowledge and made it seem shameful. >> basically anything that >> we're going michigan to put that pressure on lawmakers to repeal the michigan tampon tax. >> what would happen if men could menstruate. >> we tried a period cramp simulator. >> i had my first hot flash the other day. >> i was just sick of keeping it secret. let's get rid of sigma. so i always say, close for business but open for pleasure. and i use this. febreze has a microchip to control scent release so it smells first-day fresh for 50 days. 50 days!? 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"the wall street journal" writing this, quot the prosecutor investigating why classified documents ended up at president biden's home and former office is preparing a report that is expected to be sharply critical of how he and his long time aides handled the material, but the probe isn't likely to end in a case. since his appointment in january, the special counsel interviewed roughly 100 of biden's aides, colleagues and family members, including his son hunter, culminating in a two-day interview with the president last month. the documents in question date back to biden's time as vice president when he was a member of the u.s. senate. meanwhile, biden's predecessor has also been -- for his handling of government secrets, but in stark contrast to what we expect in the biden probe, donald trump was indicted on 40 charges, including obstruction of justice and conspiracy. another break for us. we'll be right back. k. my little family is me, aria, and jade. just the three of us girls. i never thought twice about feeding her kibble. but about two years ago, i realized she was overweight. she was always out of breath. that's when i decided to introduce the farmer's dog to her diet. it's just so fresh that she literally gets bubbles in her mouth. now she's a lot more active, she's able to join us on our adventures. and we're all able to do things as a family. ♪ get started at betterforthem.com hi, my name is damion clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a healthy options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. and our large networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. so, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. humana. a more human way to healthcare. in order for small businesses to thrive, they need to be smart, efficient, savvy. making the most of every opportunity. that's why comcast business is introducing the small business bonus. for a limited time you can get up to a $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. yep, $1000. so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network and that powers more businesses than anyone else. learn how you can get $1000 back for your business today. comcast business. powering possibilities. thank you for spending part of your thursday with us. we are grateful as always. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hey, ari. >> hi, alicia, thank you so much. welcome to "the beat." i'm ari melber. the house just dropped another evidence bomb on congressman george santos, a damning ethics report that has him announcing he won't run again. that's new tonight. with an exclusive interview of his former aide. and also tonight we'll discuss immigranta alligator hunting and lessons from taylor swift and a live interview with e-40 by the end of the hour. lots cooking, so stay with us. top developments roiling the rico case in georgia. the judge issuing another order for today. with that look inside rico confession sessions. it's a rare look. we don't usually get this stuff at this point.

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