system and unprecedented ways. after temporarily freezing a gag order against them, judge tanya chutkan just reinstated, ruling that the order should stay in effect while his lawyers pursue an appeal. while you may ask, even in the very short window when it was on hold donald trump continue to attack people involved in the case. he took to truth social to stand with prosecutors called a threatening message about his former chief of staff, mark meadows. i met so that judge chutkan wrote in her decision with quote almost certainty would violate the order. to be clear, the gag order isn't prohibiting trump from talking about the case, the judge is simply saying that he can't lash out against witnesses and prosecutors. it doesn't sound that unreasonable to me. but trump can't seem to help himself, case in point, minutes after the gag order was reinstated trump attacked another likely witness in the case. his former attorney general, bill barr, trump called him among any other things, lazy, and a loser. trump was upset with barr again a witness in the case, that's what's important here because of some critical comments barr made about am in a recent interview. >> he's already saying it's about retribution, he's a very petty man, it's all about him, and he's a very, has a fragile ego, something happened to me as a kid and i'm not gonna psycho analyze it. every encounter he needs to come out showing the other guy that he's better, it's all about the assertion of his ego. and i think he'll be self indulgent in a new administration, he won't be as effective as i could otherwise be and probably thinks will start moving toward chaos. >> that's a pretty blunt assessment there by his former attorney general. but also he's a witness, mark meadows, there's a list that continues going, it does not stop there. here's the thing, there's a lot of potential witnesses that trump [inaudible] they may say things he does not like, which means he's likely gonna keep targeting them, which means he's gonna violate the gag order again. we can also us expect him to keep attacking prosecutors, judges in these case, as we kidder consider restrictions as what he's allowed to say. it's worth pointing out there's a lot of people out there who follow the words and actions of the former president, they use them as a guide for their own lives and what they do. just today we learned a man in alabama was indicted for threatening district attorney fani willis and a sheriff regarding the georgia election case. we already know trump will keep washing out, we know why it is dangerous, the question is what will be done about it. he's already been fined thousands of dollars in new york, it hasn't changed is behavior, none of the consequences seem to have any impact. so yes, it's fair to ask the question, could he actually put in jail before his trial, a special counsel jack smith pointed to a provision that allows for detention. we'll have to wait and see what judge chutkan does when trump attacks these people, and attacks them again, and again. as we wait for further developments here won this back and forth over a gag order against the former president, we witnessed another first for the country today. the story of a trial and denver to determine if the front runner for the republican nomination can even appear on the ballot in colorado. this trial stemming from a lawsuit filed back in september arguing trump is ineligible from holding office, citing section three of the 14th amendment, which says that no person can hold office if they engaged in an insurrection or rebellion after swearing under oath to support and defend the constitution. it does sound a little familiar, some constitutional experts say this -- president again. but that view isn't actually universal, it remains to be seen what the courts decide, their cases and other states as well. like i said, all of these questions we're facing tonight are pretty unprecedented, our country, our legal system has never had to consider the constitutionality of a gag order on a former president, or whether or not he can be tossed off the ballot for engaging in an insurrection. we've never had a former president indicted four times, or one who tried to overturn a fair and free election, we've never had a former president that threatens judges in the courts, and tries to intimidate witnesses. so, yes these are absolutely unprecedented actions by the court, but it's not the courts that have changed, they're taking unprecedented steps because of the unprecedented actions of donald trump, it's important to forget that. joining me now is u.s. attorney general, eric holder, there's so much to discuss here and i people are trying to understand it. let me start with this gag order, do you think looking at this, judge chutkan reinstate the gag order after she put a pause on it. it's still under appeal, are you confident or do you feel comfortable with her legal justification for reinstating? at >> i certainly think there's a basis for concern, there is a basis for the order that she has put in place. my expectation would be the appellate court will in fact uphold that which she has tried to restrain the former president from doing. it's a pretty limited order, it does not say you can't see anything, it says you can only say you can say negative things about a relatively small universal group of people. you can even comment on the case with but as you said, he's likely to go beyond that watch even she says in that limited order. we'll ask ultimate questions that are gonna be determined, what a judge actually do that watch will happen to a normal person, put someone in jail for violating an order, a gag order, i suspect that's not likely to happen with this defendant, any other defendant would be facing. >> you don't think she put him in jail or that they would decide to put him in jail ultimately? >> i just don't think so. i think there is a number of things, you can put monetary fines on him as the judge did in new york, perhaps trump's ability to use truth social, a number of things, i try to be as creative a possibility where the judge. but i'd be reluctant to take a person, former president, the leading candidate of one of our major parties and put him in jail. >> you'd be worried about the political consequences are the reaction in the country? >> yeah, it's already a pretty divided nation and to do something like that, take someone off the campaign trail, to put him in jail, i just would be very reluctant, really reluctant to do that. >> it seems trump's lawyers are gonna continue to appeal this. with this, the gag order, could this ultimately end up at the supreme court, a decision about whether or not a gag order against the former president's legal? >> it could civilly code. it's a federal case, the supreme court has ultimate jurisdiction over all federal matters, it's possible the gag order could go before the supreme court. i would think again though that this is not the kind of thing that typically ends up before the supreme court. i would think it would probably be resolved at the appellate court level, in front of the d.c. circuit. >> one of the other options the judge has, this is what everyone's wondering, none of the fines are working, trump is not, he's continuing to attack people, we all expect him to continue to, if she's not gonna put him in jail what can they do? >> maybe increase the level of fines. i think the judge in new york started at $85, 000, they went from $25, 000, start imposing fines that even for a person who claims to be a billionaire will have some kind of impact, hundreds of thousands of dollars in terms of the fines that might be levied. >> we also learned today in alabama man, i mentioned this as well, who is indicted for threatening fani willis -- you've watched hate speech, you watch the impact of trump's rhetoric. what is the connection, do you see a connection there between the allowance of these types of threats, what trump is doing out there publicly, and threats against people like fani willis? >> his comments by the former president need to be viewed as a tax in two ways. one, on the system itself, that needs to be dealt with, but also it creates an environment in which the kinds of things you've just described, where threats remain against people involved in the case are taken seriously by not cases, lone wolf's, who may act upon the very things that he says. the concern i have is not only for the system but for the participants who are actually gonna be attacked by the former president. that threat is real, with all the guns that we have out there in the environment that we now have, i'm sure that there's adequate security for all the people who are involved in these cases. the fact is that security is actually needed, it's a sad thing to say involving a legal matter involving a former president, it means you need to have protection for the people who are simply trying to uphold the law and do the jobs they are left to do. >> it's quite a time. we talk a lot about how immoral, dangerous all these threats are that donald trump is making. talk us through why this is such a problem in attacking potential witnesses in a case, if you were a prosecutor, if you were a judge, leon the obviously the violence which is very important, what else are you worried about? >> you're worried about whether not a witness is gonna be intimidated, the reluctant to share incriminating information against the former president out of fear that one of his followers is gonna do something physical on to that witness. in mob cases, one of which i tried when i was a public corruption prosecutor, we need to relocate, pulp people and witness protection programs, when a whole variety things to only fears people have when they feel threatened. and that is not fundamentally different from some of the concerns that witnesses potentially could have in this case or these cases. >> there's also a case today in colorado, i mention this. o where it's questioning whether the 14th amendment could be used to kick trump off the ballot. it's not the only state where there's a case like this, what do you make of that legal argument? >> there are some legal questions as to whether or not it applies to a president, there's a question of, if you look at of and how it's used, for the and how it's used, and i worry about taking him away from the ability to run for president, taking him off the ballot without the people of the united states, taking a choice away from the people of the united states. in the same way i'd be reluctant if i were a judge to put him in jail, reluctant to use this provision of a constitution to take him out of the election. i think, let's have this election, a fair election, let's have it well run and let the people decide. i'm pretty confident we, i can't guarantee that he won't win the popular vote, that i'll guarantee. the question is whether not he'll win in the electoral college. that i think is gonna be a lot closer and i'm concerned about what the results will be there, at the end of the day that is the place to decide whether or not he should be the next president of the united states. >> there's different state cases, i'm trying to understand what the impact would be, if a judge in colorado's rules he should be kicked off, but a judge in minnesota rules that he shouldn't be, then that's conflicting, right, and it can go to the supreme court? >> it would ultimately go to the supreme court, that's the ultimate arbiter of what the constitution says, if you have conflicting rules by judges in different states, it would have to be decided by the united states supreme court. >> i know you don't find yourself agreeing with bill barr often, i suspect, but we did just listen to what he had to say. i wonder what you make of his comments about trump's pledges for retribution and the chaos it could cause, what scares you most about what he could do if he were in a position of naming a new attorney general, overseeing a department of justice? >> attorney general barr has it right there. this is one of the few instances what i would agree, i'd ask him, you knew this about this guy before you decided to be's attorney general. yeah, i'm concerned about what he can do between now and the election and if he were to win the election i'm concerned about what he would do to the rule of law, our system of justice, to the united states department of justice that is near indira to me. there is nothing i would put beyond what donald trump would do in order to save himself, in order to ensure that his interests are protected in those that are's supporters are protected. in essence, the former attorney general's right, you wouldn't be getting the second team, third team, you'd be getting the fourth team in the trump administration. as bad as things may have been forced -- it would be even worse starting in 2025. >> i have a lot more i want to ask you about, including threats on college campuses, aunties summit-ism, and islamophobia. please stick around, it will take a quick break. we'll be back very quickly after a quick break with attorney general eric holder. stay with us. stay with us my customer really relies on his car's advanced safety system. 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>> we need understand that hate lives in the body of this country and it has for, since we became a nation. i worked on anti-hate crime matters when i was u.s. attorney here in washington, d.c., during the clinton administration, we had a record number of cases when i was attorney general during the obama administration. i think we need to denounce this wherever it is we see a, we also need to make sure that we hold people accountable who engage in these kinds of activities. >> meaning arrests? >> arrests, prosecution, put people in jail, i'm presume that person is innocent but let's assume the person who is alleged to have threatened senator rosen is found guilty and, that person needs to go to jail, we need to be strong and say this is not acceptable in this country. we can have all kinds of spirited dialogue, loud and boisterous nation, this is what makes us great, but when you move into the realm of hate, when you try to threaten people based on their ethnicity, their race, their sexual orientation, that needs to be extremely forceful, the justice department as components that could help people enter into dialogue. and i think that's a positive thing, i don't think we should ever forget that there are laws that say that these kinds of things are illegal, criminal laws, and those laws need to be enforced. >> you often hear, and i've heard people make this argument, that this is free speech, but even threatening rhetoric, rhetoric against others as free speech. where does the law draw the line on that? >> you can't yell, fire, in a crowded theater, when you make a specific threat against somebody, that is something that is -- state criminal laws. these are facts specific kinds of questions, when you threatened someone in particular, what you threatened to do something against an organization, when you threaten them with bombing, use of guns, a variety of things, those things can be prosecutable, and they should be prosecuted, that's what i want to emphasize these are the cases that we can't say, that's really bad and morgan denounced those people, no, hold them accountable, prosecute them. >> that's the where to disincentivize from era law enforcement background. college campuses, we've seen pictures, visuals, a lot of students afraid, they're scared, there have been threats, i mentioned cornell university, what kind of resources does doj in a position to provide, what can they do for these colleges? >> there are components within doj, within department of homeland security that are designed to get out and talk to people, to encourage people to talk through differences that they have. there's a thing call community relations service within the justice department that does the kind of things, lower the temperature where there are incidents that would spark violence or community disruptions. that part of the department, those parts of those departments can be employed in the circumstances. >> i mentioned of course, you mentioned how you think it's got this guy should be put in jail, this threat against the sitting u.s. senator, it feels, i'm not a lawyer but it feels copycat like he saw rhetoric, soft threatening language, how do you view the combination of political violence, threatening rhetoric out there, colliding right now with a political division over a war overseas, how concerned are you about those colliding issues? >> i'm very concerned, i'm concerned that what is happening outside our borders is gonna have an impact within the united states. as this invasion of gaza goes on, i'm concerned about how people will view that, and what that will mean in terms of how jewish folks are viewed in this nation, how people of the islamic faith are viewed in this nation, we need to understand that we are a diverse powerless stick society at our best. that is one of the strengths of this nation. when we turn on each other on the basis of ethnicity, on the basis of race, that weakens who we are as a nation. we can't let that which exists into many places around the world affect us, infect us in the united states. >> i know you've been spending a lot of time traveling around the country working to defend, fight back against gerrymandered districts and stage, huge victory in georgia. sounds like they're gonna start redoing the maps in november. how significant is that? >> it's extremely significant. the most important thing is on the ballot this year is the power of democracy, we could talk about specific issues, but the question is will we protect democracy, and that's what we've been trying to do -- committee. in an unexpected place, people who filed filed suit in georgia, you filed suit in georgia and we won, a violation of the voting rights act was found in nazareth salt it's the first time an opportunity for african americans in georgia to elect a candidate of their choice. it has an impact in georgia. we saw the same thing in alabama, we'll see the same result i think in louisiana, florida as well. this fight for our democracy is something that has animated my department of justice life. >> you've had so much successes in places no one thought you should be fighting these battles. i think we've been shocked and please buy. north carolina is a state that is making people feel stressed right now. what could happen there, is there any further action that can be taken, it sounds like it could mean losing a couple of democratic seats? >> north carolina was a very gerrymandered state, people did a lawsuit and won the suit, the draw the lines were redrawn, -- the congressional delegation won, seven democrats and seven republicans. a supreme court election occurred, new justices put in place a legal ruling that went against priors, it was only months old on the basis of that. and there was an egregious gerrymandering in north carolina, we're likely to see instead of 77, maybe a ten four split that is inconsistent with the designs of the people of north carolina. it's also one that will allow a supermajority at the state legislative level in north carolina. we suspect will have to be back in north carolina at some point with a lawsuit another actions to make sure that which we care the first time, we care a second effort. >> attorney general eric holder, we reminded me during the week the virginia election matters, next tuesday a lot at stake including abortion rights. thank you for joining me this evening, we appreciate it. >> everybody get out there and vote in virginia. >> coming up, donald trump's children are set to -- civil fraud trial. george conway joins me to discuss what we're expecting them to say, and why the case is trump's worst net mare. we're back after a quick break. back after a quick break ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ get it with gurus. cargurus. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> so far nothing is actually shows up for a civil fraud trial in new york. over the past voluntary attended the trial a whole lot. blaring in the courtroom and ranting and raving about the new york attorney general, the judge in the hallway during breaks, that's what he's been up to. he's been fined twice for violating a gaggle order that the judge imposed, the reason he keep showing up and lashing out is because this case it's at the heart of his entire public persona that he's built over decades. this case has shattered the myth that trump is some brilliant, successful, new york billionaire and revealed what he really is, and that's a fraud. he can't stand a, in the coming days trump's three eldest children will be called to testify in this case. starting with don jr. on wednesday, followed by eric trump on thursday, with trump himself set to take the stand a week from today. ivanka trump originally scheduled to testify this friday will now take the stand two days after her father. trump, john junior, eric, are all defendants in the case, ivanka is no longer a defendant but will be testifying as a witness -- letitia james. a lawyer in james's office has said that the prosecution will rest its case after trump testifies. and remember, the justice already found with trump's sons liable for fraud, it's decided, all that's left for him to decide how much they need to pay. the other trump cases may land him in jail but this one might be even more threatening. joining me now is conservative attorney, george conway. so, i want to start with this big question, he is ranting and raving and losing it, losing his mind outside the courtroom. >> whatever he had left. >> his adult children are gonna testify over the next nine days. you followed him a long time, you've watched a, i think this is impacting him psychologically? >> you could see it, you could see in the clips he's making mistakes, he's babbling incoherently even more than usual, this is striking it as your intro pointed out at the heart of his persona, this is who he was, the mogul, he was the mogul apprentice, he's been that in new york for 50 years. and now it's coming crashing down, that he's been found to have committed fraud, the books, records and statements of financial conditions are false. the judge has already ruled that there is no issue a fact on whether or not they were false, as a result the judge said, ordered that trump organization can't do business in the state of new york should be invalidated. it puts them out of business, he'll have to liquidate everything and only mar-a-lago which is owned by new york llcs. but then the question of how much of the proceeds of those sales, when he needs to be put out of business go to the state of new york, that's what this is about, it tells you a lot. tells you a lot here is the witness list, who's calling these witnesses, the state is calling eric, don junior, ivanka, and donald himself, it tells you something, they don't have a story, they don't have a story to explain the books, -- reporting one thing to tax authority, reporting another thing to banks, or for bragging purposes. the documents asked the judge said in his opinion, the document, it's a document case and some of the documents had lies but they don't lie about the fact that they show that it was all fake. >> all of it. let's go back to what could potentially happen here. when you said mar-a-lago could be liquidated, people maybe like, wait, what, isn't he rich. he's already been convicted of fraud here but the total size of this, it sounds like you review, your belief, is he could have to sell his assets that he doesn't have liquid funding to pay? this >> in other words he, he cannot operate a business in the state of new york if justice -- decision so far stands. he will lose his certificate, he has foreign corporations, foreign entities, meaning out of state entities doing business, their right to do business in new york is canceled as is the certificate of incorporation of the various llcs, companies that he himself owns that are incorporated in new york. he cannot do business. the answer is that the result will be, everything is put into receivership needs to be sold. obviously, the shareholders will get their money except to the extent that this trial finds that some of the money should go to the state. this is a very, very, this is a death blow to trump's business. >> huge, huge impact. trump is testifying coming up in a week, he could take, he took the fifth nearly 450 times. >> yes, for 40. >> for 40. >> it was almost 500. >> for 40 or 50, somewhere in between there. >> all in one day. >> which is quite a lot of pleading the fifth. he could take the fifth in this case as well when he testifies, right? >> in theory could, although it would be a poor deposition. the problem for him in a criminal case the fact, if a witness, the defendant doesn't have to testify against themselves that's what the constitution guarantees, you cannot infer guilt from a defendant's refusal to testify or as invocation of the fifth amendment. but in a civil case, if you assert the fifth amendment the trier of fact whether be the judge, if it's the judge, or jury, and in a jury case can say, oh, he may have committed a crime he thinks he did something wrong, and the jury would be instructed that they can make an adverse finding on the question that were asked. what was the basis for this financial situation, i plead the fifth. and the jury would be entitled to conclude, or the justice, entitled to conclude that there was no basis. >> sounds guilty if you take the fifth. as he's watching his children testify here, what is the on edge that he's worried about hearing over the next couple of days? >> he's gonna be on edge hearing them admit that they didn't have a basis for things, saying daddy told me to do it, that's what i'd be worried about if i were him, but i don't know what they're gonna say. >> wildly interesting to watch. this won't surprise you i'm sure but he's been fundraising off of the 14th amendment challenged his candidacy in colorado, i can't make it up sometimes, there's no consequences to that, should there be, could there be? the >> consequences -- >> that he's fundraising off of legal cases against him? >> i think there should've been consequences and there may still yet be consequences for the fundraising that he did during -- when he was claiming that the election was rigged and saying that they're trying to hold alone office. he said he needed all this money, raising money for legal challenges. it's hard to spend $250 million, that's what he raised in 2020 to 2021 on legal fees. and he didn't, those fees, that money has been used for other purposes. the question really is what [inaudible] is he saying that there's a potential mark [inaudible] who just said money, are they lying to them. i think that is fraud. >> it sounds like we have a lot [inaudible] of children are going to say. thank you so much, george conway, we appreciate talking. deal coming up israeli soldier hostage -- [inaudible] after being freed from joins me to discuss the hostages still being held captive. ing held captive you did it, you did it... ♪ centrum silver is now clinically shown to support cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say, ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. listen, your deodorant just has to work. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later, i still smell fresh. secret works! ohhh yesss. ♪♪ to finally lose 80 pounds and keep it off with golo is amazing. ohhh yesss. i've been maintaining. the weight is gone and it's never coming back. with golo, i've not only kept off the weight but i'm happier, i'm healthier, and i have a new lease on life. golo is the only thing that will let you lose weight and keep it off. who loses 138 pounds in nine months? 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(soft music) ♪ ♪ ♪ >> today the israeli defense forces announced that they've rescued one of their soldiers who have been taken hostage by hamas. prime minister ninja netanyahu said that the rescue shows israel's commitment to bringing the hostages home, the ground operation is a key part of the strategy. >> the ground action creates the possibility, not the certainty, the possibility of getting hostages out because hamas will not do it unless they're under pressure, they simply will not do it, they only do it under pressure, this creates pressure. >> that's prime minister netanyahu saying the ground offensive could lead to the freeing of these hostages. but is often the opposite. there's your point to the head of mossad, the end telegrams agency, travel to qatar to take part of the hostage negotiations, this raises the questions of how quickly israel can secure the release of more than 230 remaining hostages, whether by a negotiation, additional rescue operations, are other options and whether they can do that in the amount of time that may be left. joining me now is john brennan, former cia director under president barack obama, senior national security analyst for msnbc. i want to start here, prime minister netanyahu has made this argument the past couple times -- military operation is going to help put the pressure on to get hostages out. what do you make of that argument? >> well, it certainly could as israel and ground forces move into gaza, and the release of this one israeli soldier i think to ask if the hostage family some hope that the offensive operations may lead to the release of their level ads. i'm sure the israelis are acting on intelligence that they have, had, and will try to secure the release of these hostages early on in the offensive. this was an israeli soldier, i'm sure she's been trained to identify some of the weapons, communication gear, tactics, things like code words that these hostage takers were using. that is gonna be a help as well. yes, this is gonna put the hostages at risk of being caught in a fire fight between israeli forces and hamas militants, or a mass militants can follow through on threats to execute them. but there is the possibility in the potential hopefully that there will be some more releases as a result of the ground operations. >> it's really interesting, they can use her because she know what to listen for to try and add to the intelligence gathering on hostages it sounds like you're saying. the other path here is the diplomatic path, it can fall at the same time, jake sullivan told me yesterday that they don't want to have any stoppage and that, it's ongoing. according to nbc reporting hamas is demanding fuel deliveries into gaza in return for hostages. how do you think that plays out, there is these concerns about doing that? >> the israelis are gonna continue with these negotiations going through -- the united states is trying to help in that regard as well. i don't believe that the israelis are any move to release any hamas prisoners that they may have, and negotiating for some humanitarian support into palestinian people, into gaza for the release of israeli hostages. i do think it is a possibility and i'm confident that they're trying to find what is that balance between providing something to hamas but not being able to reward them for holding these hostages. >> there are also hundreds of americans stuck near the border of the rafah crossing, we talked about this before, they're unable to leave because hamas is blocking their departure. at what point do we consider them hostages in another way as well, they're stuck there, they can't leave, they're not being held under tunnels when they can't depart the border? >> while they are restricted from waving, these are american citizens that are unable to return home. i do think we need to think about them as being kept against their will, yes, hamas has been responsible for these horrific atrocities that started and triggered this conflict. at the same time, we need to work closely with the egyptians to see whether or not there's a way to get these american citizens and other dual nationals across the rafah crossing so that they can in fact escape. but clearly, it's a very, very bad humanitarian situation and also the conflict continues to raise, we have thousands upon thousands of innocence who have been killed in gaza as a result of the strikes that israel has been carrying out. >> near top -- lengthy piece today on isel's intelligence failure leading up to the october 7th attack. as i was reading it i was thinking,i wonder what dire thinks, now i get to ask you , there's things that stuck out listening to traffic --ey st militants a year ago. that prime netanyahu had ignored or refused a number of intelligence briefings. there's lots of time stamps for this and they're gonna investigate, what's stuck out to you in there, was there anything surprising? >> it was the fact that they seized the intelligence collection actions, they seem to have been focus more on local possibly happen in the west bank, i think this was a policy directive part of bibi netanyahu. the fact that they assume that hamas was gonna be content with these infrequent rocket attacks and having will gazans go across the border from the border in israel to bring back money. it was a bad assumption and i do think there is going to be accountability across the board. it was a failure to be able to maintain the vigilance that they needed knowing that hamas is a terrorist organization has this militant terrorist corps that clearly was engaging in these preparations despite the fact that israel should have known. everyone feels israel should have known that hamas is not an organization to be trusted, that terrorist corps is something we -- extinction of israel. >> they look pretty vulnerable right now to the outside world. they're dealing with attacks from hezbollah, how do they rebuild their intelligence capacities in this moment, can they, they have people on the ground now in gaza, they're fighting a war there, what else can they do to protect themselves from bad actors right now? >> israeli intelligence about civilian, military intelligence arm on the best services in the world, and clearly they let their guard down. but their professionals, they have capabilities that are so strong, now what they're doing i'm sure is searching those capabilities in gaza, north of israel against hezbollah, iran and others are not caught by surprise again. i cannot believe it's gonna be any type of wholesale changes in israeli intelligence while the war is raging. but probably afterwards, there's gonna be a review that will result in some significant changes including on the personnel front. right now all is really professionals are doing everything they can to be able to gain insight into what my next happen in terms of israel security. >> former cia director, john brennan, thank you for joining me this evening. but thyork times reporters whbrthat story which is intesting and about the israeli intelligence failures will joan alex wagner in the next hour. alex is gonna talk to mark fuzzy, but first a bit of news about something i've been working on when i'm not here at work. very excited to tell you about it, it's coming up after a quick break. quick break. the chase ink business premier card is made for sam who makes, everyday products, designed smarter. genius! like 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more, so sam can make smart ideas, a brilliant reality! chase for business. make more of what's yours. when the murrays discovered gain scent beads, they fell in love with the irresistible scent. ♪ ♪ huh, huh, so did their dog roger. ♪ ♪ gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest stuff smelling fresh. ♪ (cheery music) - they get it. they know how it works... and more importantly... it works for them. - i don't have any anxiety about money anymore. - i don't have to worry about a mortgage payment every month. - it allowed me to live in my home... and not have to pay payments. - [narrator] if you're 62 or older and own your home, you could access your equity to improve your lifestyle. a reverse mortgage loan eliminates your monthly mortgage payments and puts tax-free cash in your pocket. ca the number on your screen. - it was the best thing i've ever done, and- - really? - yes, without a doubt! - just like these folks, aag can show you how a reverse mortgage loan uses your built-up home equity to give you tax-free cash. - it's a good thing. - why don't you get the facts? like these folks did. - [narrator] call right now to receive your free, no-obligation info kit. ♪ ♪ ♪ call the number on your screen. >> before we go tonight, a little bit of news on a personal front, i wrote a book, it's called say more, it will be out on may 7th of next year. this is not a salacious tell-all, and let you all know, it's not exactly my style, but it's full of behind the scenes stories from the campaign trail, the white house, at the state department about my time working with a number of people that you all know well, from president biden, to president obama, the secretary kerry, and even rob a manual, don't forget about him. some of the stories are funny, serious, some are even full of conflict about our decisions that have been made in recent history. this is also a book as i was writing it i was thinking about, that i had many times in my career, it's not just about saying more of impact in public, yes, don't worry -- in this book. but also how to listen, an advocate for yourselves, what to do when you make a mistake, what to do when you need to take a leap career wise. what to do, how to talk to different kinds of bosses, how to talk to your family including kids, and believe me there's always humor, humility involved with kids. and yes, even presidents. as we get closer i will share more details about plans for a book tour and more about the book. but for now you can preorder it wherever books are sold. and i hope that you do. that does it for me tonight, we'll be back here next sunday at noon eastern, but stay right where you are because alex wagner tonight starts right now. >> hey alex. >> i think this is the first time we had a hand over my friend. time we had a hand over my friend >> i know. i know, little do people know how much we chat about all of thesech things, work, politics, parents, halloween. >> i have to say, i'm excited for the book. it sounds like it is one part maybe a s

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