Transcripts For MSNBCW Meet 20240703

When terrorists dont pay a price for their terror, when dictators dont pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and death. Chaos andh and he calls on congress to fund both wars. We cant let petty, partisan, angry politics get in the way of the responsibilities of a great nation. Now the urgent effort to free more hostages as two americans are released as both conflicts rage on. Will the u. S. Be able to build support for staying in the fight . Ill ask Secretary Of State Antony Blinken and former Vice President mike pence. Plus, house in chaos. A speaker has not been elected. We need to come together and figure out who our speakers going to be. The House Of Representatives remains leaderless as the republican fight over who will become the next speaker drags on. The crazy eights who have led the race. The amount of damage they have done to this party and to this country is insurmountable. Is there a solution to this dysfunction . Will anyone be able to get the gavel . Ill talk to the former House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy. And admission of guilt. Guilty. Guilty. Two former Trump Lawyers plead guilty in the Georgia Election case. What will it mean for Donald Trumps Legal Defense . Joining me for insight and anal sis are New York Times chief White House Correspondent peter baker, amna nawaz, a coanchor of pbs newshour, Washington Post columnist, David Ignatius and Danielle Pletka of the American Enterprise institute. Welcome to sunday. Its Meet The Press. From nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet The Press with kristen welker. Good sunday morning. The u. S. Is stepping up its Military Readiness across the mid east, citing escalations by iran and its proxy forces as the u. S. And israel prepare for a widening war. American israeli Hostages Judith and Natalie Raanan spoke to President Biden on saturday after being released by hamas. They were abducted in the Terror Attack two weeks ago in southern israel. Hi, judith. Hello, mr. President. I am so glad youre home. Not home, im glad youre out. Thank you so very, very much. Hey, natalie, how are you . God love you. I appreciate your support for israel. According to the israeli military, 212 hostages are still being held captive, at least 30 of them under the aim of 16. The first 20 trucks carrying aid moved through the rafah Border Crossing from egypt into gaza saturday, but did not include fuel critical to keeping hospitals running and water. President biden and his top aides have been urging leaders against carrying any major strike against hezbollah and lebanon which could bring israel into a twofront war and a growing threat to iran. On wednesday at least two dwoens targeted garrison in southern syria, injuring several u. S. Personnel. Drones targeted bases with u. S. Troops in iraq this week resulting in several more minor injuries. Thursday, a u. S. Navy ship in the Northern Red Sea downed four Cruise Missiles and more than a dozen drones launched from yemen by proiranian houthi forces that seemed to be heading toward israel. Overnight the pentagon has announced the u. S. Is sending additional Defense Systems to the region, moving a Carrier Strike group to the persian gulf, and putting additional u. S. Troops to prepare to deploy orders. President biden is linking a request for aid to israel to ukraine, formally asking congress for 105 billion for emergency funding. On thursday night the president pressed for american engagement at a time of growing global instability. History has taught us that when terrorists dont pay a price for their terror, when dictators dont pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and death and more destruction. They keep going, and the cost and the threats to america and the world keep riding. And joining me now is Secretary Of State Antony Blinken who recently returned from a whirlwind diplomatic trip to the middle east, which took him to egypt, bahrain, qatar, the u arab emirates, israel, jordan, and saudi arabia twice. Good morning. Welcome back to Meet The Press. Thank you, kristen. Good to be with you. I want to start with the hostage situation. As we reported those two american hostages have been released this morning, and hamas has come out with a statement saying they are prepared to release two more hostages. What can you tell us about that . Do you see this as a credible offer coming from this Terrorist Organization . Well, first, kristen, weve been working on this from day one, engaged with different partners in the region, sending clear messages about the need for immediately and unconditionally release all of the hostages, and it was gratifying to see that judith and Natalie Raanan were released yesterday. I had a chance to speak to them as well. They sounded strong of mind, strong of spirit, but there remain many others and we are hopeful that more are released, but the bottom line is this. They need to be released. Each and every one of them, now, unconditionally. Do you take this word by hamas that they are potentially prepared to release two more hostages seriously . Is the u. S. Government, for example, working with qatar to make that happen as we speak . Well, action speaks, not words, particularly coming from hamas. Weve been engaged with partners, and one of the first things that i did after the horrific attack of october 7th and hostages were taken, men, women, young children, elderly people, its extraordinary, was to talk to everyone we could who might have influence with hamas in terms of releasing them. In the instance of judith and natalie, i again want to thank the government of qatar for playing a very Important Role in getting them out and now on their way home to see their loved ones. I want to ask you about their release. Can you tell us why those two were released and why now, mr. Secretary . I cant. We dont know why hamas chose to release natalie and judith first. I use the word first advisedly because, again, we are hopeful that more will follow. I cant speak to that. What i can speak to is our incessant efforts from day one to try to get people home, to try to get them out of gaza back with their families and loved ones. That is continuing as we speak. This is something we are engaged in virtually around the clock. Do you believe that all ten unaccounted for americans are being held hostage . Kristen, we dont know. As you said, we have ten unaccounted for americans. We believe that some significant number are hostages, but you know, whats happening is and it just underscores the horror. Israel continues to discover, uncover people who were killed, who were slaughtered, and i use that term very advisedly, slaughtered, on october 7th. So what we dont know for sure is whether some of the unaccounted for are dead and have simply not been uncovered yet or a hostage, but we have a pretty strong idea that some number of the ten are being held in gaza by hamas. I want to talk to you about the Ground Operation in israel. I spoke to an Idf Spokesperson earlier this week who said they are not planning to change their strategy despite the fact that two hostages have now been released. I want to ask you, does the u. S. Want israel to wait on its Ground Operation until more hostages can be freed . Kristen, lets first step back a second and put this in perspective. The attack of october 7th, the slaughtering of men, women, children, the rocketing of israel that continues to this day, no country, no country could accept that, and so israel has not only the right, as we said, but the obligation, to defend itself. We are not in the business of secondguessing what they are doing. We are talking to them on a regular basis about how they do it. Its vitally important that every measure be taken to protect civilians, that humanitarian assistance gets in to people caught in the crossfire of hamas making, and, of course, both of us want to make sure that the many hostages that have been taken come home, and thats why we are working on it. As i said, virtually every minute of the day, but these are decisions that israel has to make. We can give our best advice and our best judgment again about how they do it and also how best to achieve the results that theyre seeking. I want to try to get some clarity from you about the Water Situation in gaza. As you know, israel decided to cut off water to gaza along with the Fuel Electricity that powers the water and sewage plants in the territory, and that has exposed residents to all sorts of potential contaminated water and sickness as well. What was the strategy behind that, and can you clarify, has any of the water been restored, mr. Secretary . So this is something that weve also been working on from virtually from the beginning. When i was in israel and throughout the region, as you mentioned a little while ago, one of the things i was very focused on was making sure that people in gaza, innocent people who are caught in this through no fault of their own, in this crossfire of hamas making, get the assistance they need, whether its food, whether its medicine, whether its water. And so we werable has any of it been restored, mr. Secretary . In short, yes. In short, yes. Two things. First, there are multiple pipelines. Israel turned on one of the pipelines six or seven days ago so that was an important step and there are a couple of other pipelines that we would like to see restored. In addition, water is coming in. We had the first 20 trucks of assistance come in. That includes water. We are getting more that we hope will be moving as early as today. In fact, we were just told that some of the convoys had started to move again and are moving as we speak. At the same time, there are other things that need to happen. There are Desalination Plants that need to be powered in order to make sure that the water people are drinking is clean. We do have concerns about the spread of disease as a result of people drinking dirty water. All of these things are very much part of what were doing every day to try to make sure palestinians have the assistance we need. We appointed a very senior diplomat, david satterfield, to be on the ground every day, working to make sure the humanitarian aid people need is getting there and this is a work in progress. Its something were at all of the time. Mr. Secretary, theres been a lot of discussion about what happens after the war. Can you tell us what israels strategy is after your meeting with Prime Minister netanyahu . Who will govern gaza once the war is over . That one things for sure. Israel cannot go back to the status quo. And, again, no country would be able to accept that. No country wants but is there clear strategy, mr. Secretary . Is it clear who will govern gaza once this war is over . I think we know two things. We cant go back to the status quo. They cant go back to the status quo with hamas being in a position in terms of its governance of gaza to do what it did. What i heard from the israelis is no intent, no desire to be running gaza themselves. They moved out of gaza unilaterally, unconditionally, a couple of decades ago, but they cant constantly be a threat to the gaza strip and hamas. So something needs to be found that ensures that hamas cant do this again and also doesnt revert to the government of gaza that they do not intend to do. There are different ideas out there about what could follow, but all of that, i think needs to be worked and its something that needs to be worked even as israel is dealing with the current threat. Yeah. As i had mentioned earlier we had seen an uptick in attacks against u. S. Military facilities, against troops around the region. Overnight the pentagon announced it was actually increasing its force posture in the region. How concerned are you about iran trying to escalate this war . We are concerned. In fact, we expect that theres a likelihood of escalation. An escalation by iranian proxies directed against our forces, directed against our personnel. We are taking steps to make sure that we can effectively defend our people and respond decisively if we need to. This is not what we want and not what were looking for. We dont want escalation. We dont want to see a second or third front develop. We dont want to see our forces or our personnel come under fire, but if that happens, were ready for it. Is the u. S. Opposed to a preemptive strike by israel as has been discussed by some israeli officials . The israelis have been very clear with us, and we share this view. No one wants a second or third front, including when it comes to lebanon. Northern israel or southern lebanon. And thats not in anyones interest, and thats why we sent a very strong message to try to deter hezbollah, deter iran more directly from opening up a second front. You heard the president speak to this very clearly. Hes put countries and nonstate actors on warning. Dont take advantage of the situation. Weve also deployed very significant assets from the region and two Aircraft Carrier battle groups not to provoke, but to deter, to make clear that if anyone tries to do anything, we are there. So my expectation is that, again, coming from us, coming from israel, no one is looking for that second front. I just, finally, with the few seconds we have left want to ask you about the more than 100 billion in aid that President Biden is requesting from congress currently in a state of paralysis without a speaker of the house. How can the u. S. Deliver on that aid if you cant get it through the house, where there are also deep divisions about potentially linking aid to israel and ukraine . We we need to see the continuation of strong, bipartisan support for both ukraine and for israel. We have two friends who are under attack in different ways, but you heard the president speak very powerfully and very eloquently to this the other night speaking to the American People. We know that if we let wouldbe aggressors act with impunity, whether its a state like russia, whether its terrorists like hamas, we open a pandoras box for other aggressors Around The World to try to get away with the same thing. So we have to stand strongly with our friends. We have to stand strongly with both ukraine and with israel. We have to be looking out for the people of gaza who are caught in this crossfire. The supplemental budget request, the money the president asked congress for, would do just that. It gives us the assistance that ukraine needs, that israel needs, and also that the people of gaza needs with a lot of humanitarian aid. So we need congress, and we need it to move forward on the strong, bipartisan basis weve already seen when it comes to supporting both ukraine and israel and i hope the people of gaza. All right. Secretary blinken, thank you very much for your time this morning. We really appreciate it. Thanks, kristen. When we come back, theres still no speaker of the house as we said as the war rages on in israel. The former speaker of the house Kevin Mccarthy joins me next. To duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Welcome back. With no speaker of the house for more than 18 days, a Government Shutdown looming, and an aid package for israel stalled, republican divisions have broken out into the open and angry recriminations and even death threats. On friday republicans dropped hard right congressman jim jordan as their speaker after he failed for the third time, leaving Hakeem Jeffries with votes. Nearly ten House Republicans are joining the race for speaker. Joining me now is the man whose name is still on the sign above the speakers office, former House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy. Mr. Speaker, welcome back to Meet The Press. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. Well, thank you for being here. Look, as we have said, the House Of Representatives has been without a speaker for nearly three weeks now. What do you say to americans who look at this chaos and believe its a sign that republicans cannot govern . Well, its embarrassing, and youve got to understand why we are here. Eight republicans led by gaetz have created this chaos by joining every single democrat in voting to shut down one branch of government. Look, i would do the exact same thing again. Could you imagine if we were having this discussion right now with the American Government shut down, with our troops in the middle east wondering when theyll ever get paid again . Keeping the government open was the right decision to make, and id make it again each and every day. Now, the two men, Steve Scalise and jim jordan, they could have done the job as speaker. Unfortunately, the chaos has continued. We need to solve this problem. Weve got a wide open southern border, weve got crushing inflation, weve got a War In The Middle East. This is not a moment in time to play around with learning on the job. We need someone who understands how to do this job. I believe tom emmer, our whip, hes been in the room from securing the border from the parents bill of rights and cutting 2 trillion with Work Requirements and knows how to do the job across the street at the same time helping us win the majority. We need to get him elected this week and move on and bring this not just this Party Together and focus on what this country needs most. We will delve into tom emmer in just a moment. First i want to ask, i hear you invoking democrats. I understand the reality, though, that republicans control the house. Does this not come down to matt gaetz ultimately moving to oust you, and, therefore, do you bear some responsibility for this, mr. Speaker, for agreeing to give him the deal in the first place to be able to remove you with just one vote . That deal has been with every speaker in the house. The only person who changed it is nancy pelosi. But no other party i had the power to make this motion against nancy pelosi, but i never did because i believe in the institution of the house. All of the other democrat leaders believe they never should have been able to raise this issue. Remember, as we go forward in the next decade, if the majority changes, no ones going to have a big majority. So what Hakeem Jeffries has just done, changed the institution itself to say its okay to always make a motion to try to shut down one branch of government. Mr. Speaker from my perspective, what matt gaetz has done here, think about this, he has chosen with no plan concerned about an Ethics Complaint that was renlsterred against him in the last congress to try to go and move and shut it down. This is the wrong approach. Its brought chaos. The democrats went along with it and they have blame, too, but i would sit back. Ill take whatever blame needed, but if the blame is on me for keeping government open and voting for the troops i would do that again tomorrow. Just very quickly, just to put a fine point on it before we get to tom emmer, do you regret giving matt gaetz that power over you . You dont have that choice. You have 218 votes to pass a rule. No democrat would vote. They all voted just like they did to shut this to throw me out. They all voted against that rule as well, so they wouldnt help at that time. So i believed moving forward is the best like every other speaker has had. Lets talk about tom emmer. Obviously you had Steve Scalise, you had jim jordan who couldnt get enough votes. Do you think tom emmer will actually be able to get enough votes to be speaker because all of my reporting suggests its going to be an uphill battle. I do. Its going to be an uphill battle, but if you simply look at whats the chaos right now. A wide, open southern border. Im concerned about a cell sitting inside america today. We just caught 18 people just last month on the fbi terrorist watch list coming across our border. And more than 160 have done it this year, a recordbreaking. When were looking around the middle east and the uprisings popping up around europe and others, there could be Sleeper Cells right now in america, but this administration has done nothing to change whats happening on the government border. Weve got Government Funding where our troops wouldnt be paid sitting here in a month. Tom emmer has been a part of our successes from not just winning the majority, but being in the room to help us pass a Border Security bill, to make us Energy Independent and the parents bill of rights and to stand up when the democrats wanted to defund the police and decriminalize the laws, and hes been somewhat successful. This is not a time for a Learning Experience as speaker. Tom would be able to walk into the job and do it. You are talking about the urgent needs and the pressure including the war in israel. Why isnt that enough to have already gotten a speaker in Place Holding the gavel . Why should it be any different now with tom emmer . You said the same thing about jim jordan last week. Well, i think, why wouldnt it be the case that i wouldnt still be on the job . Unfortunately, we have eight people led by gaetz that put Something Different in their belief. I dont know why they would follow gaetz about his Ethics Complaint. I dont know whats in it. I legally cant be involved in it. It must be rather serious to put this much jeopardy into this nation. I would hope that everyone would come together, put the country before the politics, and actually solve this. Steve scalise would have done an excellent job. I supported him. Jim jordan would have. I just know this is not a time to play games. This is embarrassing for the republican party, its embarrassing for the nation, and we need to look at one another and solve the problem. Mr. Speaker, just to put a very fine point on it, if there is not a speaker, if emmer cannot get the votes, would you rule out running for speaker again to get your old job back . Look, i dont need the title. Im going to help in any way i can. I dont hear you ruling it out, mr. Speaker. Would you rule it out . Look, i know you have your job. Im supporting tom emmer, but im going to tell you im still a member of congress, and im going to lead in any capacity i can help to protect america. Im going to work to secure our border, im going to work to stop the inflation. Im going to make sure war does not break out in israel and that israel has every resource they need to defend themselves. Most importantly, i am going to press the administration. We have to destroy hamas, but you cannot do it without confronting iran. They need to change their policies. Iran only had 4 billion in the Foreign Exchange when they took office. They now have 70 billion. Iran only produced 400,000 Barrels Of Oil a day when biden took office. They now produce 3 million. Theyre getting billions of dollars in funding from Around The World. You cannot stop hamas. You cannot get the american hostages back without confronting iran. And they cannot make the same mistake they did in afghanistan. We have to be very clear. Every single american has to come home. No one will be left behind, and i can do that as a congressman. I can do that as a citizen, and i will do it and stand up for the American People. Mr. Speaker, just to be clear, we didnt hear you rule out potentially putting your name back in if theres no speaker, but let me move on. Look, to your point, to the urgent need, we just heard Secretary Blinken make the same, exact case. So once theres a speaker back in place, will you move immediately on the request by President Biden which includes linking aid to israel and ukraine . Look, we will look at exactly what they put up. We are a Different Branch of government. We will make sure theres no bloating in here, but the one thing this administration has to know from the day i became speaker, they have to stop ignoring the southern border. Easy israel should have their money right now. They are on the brink of war. There are more americans dying our southern border than there are in ukraine. Ukraine has 9 billion right now and lets sit down and look at what weaponry they need. Israel, lets not dither around lets send that tomorrow, and then lets make sure 31 americans just lost their lives in israel. Thats right. 31 americans have lost their lives in israel and that is not something that we have seen in the southern border, mr. Speaker. Oh, yeah, but let me be very clear would you support linking aid to ukraine and israel . No, because i would not want to delay any aid for israel. I would have already sent aid to israel. If i was with still speaker today, i would have done a number of things. We wouldnt even be talking about it today. First and foremost, i would have made sure that no longer are we paying for american hostages. There would be consequences for any american and no one would be left behind. I would have already september the aid to israel, and i would have stood up for the antisemitism across the aisle where hakeem said theres no statement. I would look at our own border that we dont have Sleeping Cells here, that we would actually stop these terrorists from coming across our own border, and i would have made sure from that perspective Going Forward that israel would have had every sophisticated weapon they needed to defend themselves. So no. Then we would have brought up ukraine aid at the same time we are talking about our own southern border and we would have been able to get the job done. As you know, former President Trump has inserted himself at various moments both in the speaker race endorsing jim jordan and now not endorsing tom emmer and calling for the government to shut down. Do you think former President Trump has made it more difficult for republicans to govern in the house . Look, no. I think the individuals themselves can make their decisions. Tom emmer has the ability and shown the ability. Not only can he pass the very difficult bills. He can help win the majority. He is the best person for the job. Ive watched what weve been able to do just in these nine months. Think about this. We have passed the bill that makes us Energy Independent. We have passed the most conservative Border Security bill that has secured our border. And we have passed the parents bill of rights and cut 2 trillion of wasteful spending and cut Work Requirements at the same time. We have passed appropriations bills, some which have not been passed by republicans in 16 years. Unfortunately, eight republicans led by gates has brought us this chaos. Mr. Speaker. We need to make this correction and move forward. I only have a few minutes here. My question was about former President Trump. Let me ask you this, quite simply. Why havent you endorsed him yet . The campaign is still going. Theres a very good chance i would . Hes the clear frontrunner. What are you waiting for . Well, i believe you know what . Because ive got a southern border wide open. Ive got War In The Middle East and things im focused on right now. I believe President Trump will be our nominee and i believe he will be reelected. You know what . I am a conservative republican from the beginning to the end and thats what ive always been. You can try to phrase different names to people, but im proud of who i am. All right. Former House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy, thank you. We know you have a busy week ahead. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. And when we come back, former President Trump spent more time in the courtroom than on the campaign trail this week, and yet he is still the dominant frontrunner for the gop nomination. His former Vice President mike pence who is running against him joins me next. T mike pence who is running against him joins me with cirkul, your water is deliciously flavored at the turn of a dial, with zero sugar and zero calories. And cirkul has over 40 flavors, so your water can be as unique as you are. Try cirkul. Your water, your way. Now with even more flavors. Available at walmart or drinkcirkul. Com. To duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Welcome back. Kenneth chesebro, former lawyer the Donald Trumps campaign, pleaded guilty on friday to formally conspiring to overturn the Election Loss in georgia, becoming the second trump lawyer to plead guilty in the criminal racketeering case. Chesebro pled guilty and Sydney Powell and Bail Bondsman caught hall agreed to testify against others. Joining me now is former Vice President mike pence, a republican candidate for president. Thank you for being here. Welcome back to Meet The Press. Thank you, kristen, and congratulations. Thank you so much. Its wonderful to have you here in studio. Well get to all of the trump legal matters in just a moment. I want to start with whats happening in israel and the middle east. Look, we know that president has asked for this, more than 100 billion aid package and its really exposed some divisions within the republican party. Former President Trump has said, for example, he doesnt think we should be writing a blank check to ukraine. Do you support linking aid to israel . Aid to ukraine . Is that the right path . Well, first, i think its important that american leaders in both parties speak with one voice. If the world knows nothing else, the world needs to know this. America stands with israel. What happened two weeks ago was the most brutal assault on the jewish people since the holocaust and we need to stand with israel as they prepare to do what needs to be done which is going to require a Ground Invasion. Theyre going to have to hunt down and destroy hamas once and for all, and theres going to be hardship. Theres going to be difficulty, but i really do believe this is a moment of where american clarity and leadership is more important than ever, and before you get to the aid question, i also think, look, President Biden said the other night this is what happens when dictators are not held to account. Well, kristen, its also what happens after a disastrous withdrawal from afghanistan. Its what happens after two years of appeasement by President Biden with iran, and i really do believe its also what happens when voices in my own party have been signaling retreat from the war raging in ukraine. And even one candidate for president , Vivek Ramaswamy, was recently sounding the retreat in support of israel. I really believe this is a moment where we need to stand firm, we need to learn the lessons of history, but we need American Leadership thats strong and firm and resolute for the sake of israel, for the sake of peace in Eastern Europe and for the security of the world. Very quickly on ramaswamy, he said overnight theres no clear, longterm objective. Its a recipe with no clear longterm objective and a recipe for a nowin war that would be bad for israel and bad for the u. S. Does he have a point . Is it important to make sure that there is a clear, longterm strategy . Whats important is that israel knows we are with them. It was about a month ago Vivek Ramaswamy said we would send American Armed forces in harms way if iran attacked israel. Look, its that Old Bible Verse that said if a trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will know to get ready for battle . I really believe in this moment, america has to send a clear call that we will stand with israel every step of the way as they do what needs to be done. I agree with what one israeli official said recently. Israel and hamas cannot coexist. We must support israel in their effort to crush hamas and secure their nation, and i will. Do you think that aid to ukraine and israel should be linked . Of course, ive been a very strong supporter of military aid to ukraine since the invasion by vladimir putin. Would you support the aid . I would support Congress Moving that measure together or separately, but i think its more important what the outcome is. I just heard the former speaker of the house say that we need to make sure israel has what they need, particularly with Resupplying Iron Dome and other Security Apparatus that exist in israel in the war, and weve been weve been supporting ukraine, but at the end of the day, look, weakness arouses evil, and i really do believe that if america does not continue to respond to this moment in Eastern Europe and in the middle east and no less extent in the asia pacific with resolute american strength, the balance of the 21st century could look a whole lot more like the first half of the 20th century. Let me ask you about the comments because you said u. S. Special forces should go into the region to rescue american hostages. I just want to be very clear. You would support putting american troops on the ground to get hostages out. Kristen, we have americans being held by bloodthirsty terrorists in gaza, and if i was president of the United States, i would have directly joined special Operations Command to stand up delta force and stand up the navy s. E. A. L. S who do the best Hostage Rescue in the world and say you need to work with idf, and you need to tell hamas, youve got 12 hours to turn american and israeli hostages loose or we are coming to get them. I mean, look, i welcome the release of two american hostages this week. I am grateful for that. But going hand in hand to qatar and standing by while hamas decides whether theyre going to release another hostage is totally unaccepted. We are the leader of the free world. Israels strongest ally on the planet. We need to send a message to hamas that you need to turn those hostages back over or youll answer not just to Israeli Defense forces, but youll answer to the United States armed forces. I do want to ask you about former President Trumps legal challenges. His former lawyer sidney powell, as i just said, and kenneth chesebro, have taken plea deals, and theyve agreed to testify against other defendants. Do you believe that this is evidence that the false electors scheme was essentially not defensible . Well, i must say its i know i did my duty on january 6th to support and defend the constitution of the United States, and thanks to the courage of law enforcement, we quelled the violence that day, we reconvened the congress and completed our work under the constitution, but this whole business of false electors was something i onelet aware of at the time. Ive learned about efforts afterwards you didnt hear any conversations about the false electors at the time. I didnt, other than the press. There was some discussion about people convening for electors. I mean, most of what i was dealing with was that the president and a group of Crack Pot Lawyers that had surrounded him were making the case that i had the authority to reject or return votes back to the states, which no Vice President in history had ever asserted or ever should. The presidency belongs to the American People and the American People alone, and i know by gods grace i did my duty that day. The president told me when i spoke to him last month, mr. Vice president , that he was calling the shots. He says it was his decision to pursue the false election claims even after hed lost in court. You have made the case that he was listening to Crack Pot Lawyers, but did he undercut that argument this he was listening to the Crack Pot Lawyers . No, i was in the room when i saw him doing it. But look, you know, the president is responsible for the decisions that he made and the demands that he made on me. Look, i you know, our nation won a revolutionary war against a king, and i knew from the first time i heard a rumor about the Vice President being able to reject or return votes to the states, the founders of this country would have never granted one person the ability to decide which votes to be counted. But the president chose to believe that, and he Still Believes it. And he still stands by that as do many of his supporters, and i will tell you as i travel around the country, theres not a day that goes by that someone from literally every walk of life doesnt come up to me at an airport, a diner or a pizza place and just thank me for what we did that day, and i tell them it was gods grace that gave us the strength. Let me ask you about your travels around the country because you have released your fundraising that has trailed behind a number of your competitors. You have been struggling in the polls. Mr. Vice president , if you dont qualify for this next debate, will you drop out of the race . Well, were working very hard to qualify for the debate. Well be down in miami. Lots of people are going to mikepence2024. Com and making a contribution to give us the numbers and contributions that we need to qualify, but, you know, i will tell you, look, i dont have the most money in this campaign, but i do have the most experience. I mean, its the reason why im running, kristen. When karen and i fought through this over the last two years, i reflected on the fact that i think this countrys in a lot of trouble. I think joe biden has weakened america at home and abroad. Its become more clear Around The World in recent weeks, and here at home, a crisis at our border, a crime wave in our major cities, families struggling in the worst inflation in 40 years. And when i looked at my experience not just as Vice President , but as a leader in the congress of the United States, we thought of that other verse that says to whom much is given, much will be required, and we step forward out of a sense of duty. And its carrying that message, bringing that Message Forward that gives us that great confidence. And we will continue to drive forward in this campaign and continue to marshal the support of people all across the country. Thank you, mr. Vice president. We really appreciate it and when we come back, protests have erupted across the mideast this week as the war in gaza intensifies. Is there a plan to deal with the core issues fueling the conflict . Because i switched to everyothermonth cabenuva. For adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete longacting Hiv Treatment you can get every other month. Its two injections from a healthcare provider. Now when i have people over, hiv pills arent on my mind. 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Fears of a widening war in the mideast are growing and this weeks israels neighbor jordan called for a greater effort to deescalate tensions. Abdullah believed what was at the root of the instability in the region. Unless we solve the core issue of the israeli arab challenges, then we will always be in an area of instability that costs all of us. The challenge that we have in front of an American Public is connecting the dots. Any crisis that you want to talk about whether its al qaeda, iraq, syria, pakistan, afghanistan, all comes back to the sore, the emotional issue that is palestine and jerusalem. Any conflict that you pick in the middle east today, all roads lead back to jerusalem is probably a better way of explaining it. When we come back, can the u. S. Prevent israels war with hamas from spreading . The panel is next. Panel is next. And last for weeks. It can make your workday feel impossible. The virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. 50 years or older . 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We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Welcome back. The panel is here. Amna nawaz coanchor of pbs news hour, peter baker, New York Times, David Ignatius, from the Washington Post, and Danielle Pletka from the American Enterprise institute. Thank you, all of you, for being here. Amna, i want to start with you. What are your key takeaways. This was forever changed. The brutality of which shook the core of the people of israel and people Around The World as weve seen, and i met a number of people who spoke to that. I met a woman whose husband is currently being held hostage. She doesnt know if hes alive alive. He needs medicine. I met A Man Named Gil who opposed the government of benjamin netanyahu. Hed been in the streets protesting the government and protested israeli occupation, and he is sending his son off to war in a combat unit because the nation has said this can never happen again and we all bore witness of the brutality of that day. At the same time, i spoke to a woman named hala. She has a sister and she doesnt know if she and her family will make it out alive. I spoke to a 25yearold woman named asil as her family was fleeing her home, and i could only speak to her on the phone because the connectivity is so bad. She tells me now she is waiting to die. Heres the challenge i found on the ground that will be the challenge for journalists moving forward. We have to hold two very different ideas in our heads at the same time. This was a brutal and barbaric attack, the likes of which shook the nation and the world, and israel has a right to exist in dignity, freedom, and peace. At the same time in the last two weeks weve seen thousands of palestinians including children killed as a result of retaliatory strikes, and how do we report on that moving forward with empathy and skepticism. That is the challenge as reporters and a global community. Peter, you were on Air Force One when President Biden traveled to israel and thats exactly what amna is saying, the fine line and the challenge for President Biden who publicly speaking is saying we stand shoulder to shoulder with you, but privately his message is different, more complicated. Yeah, he went to israel to give a hug to the israeli people, to basically say im here with you. One of President Bidens longtime strengths is empathy and sympathy in moments like this, to share a sense of las. I was in the room with him when he met some of the people that who as amna talked about had great loss or defiant in the face of enormous threat and he had tears on his face and the people he was hugging each of them one at a time, but he does have another message and a message meant out of friendship and one of caution, saying we made mistakes after 9 11 and we felt the allconsuming rage and theyve had 15 9 11s in terms of the amount of losses theyve suffered. He said dont make the same mistakes and widening the war beyond where it has to go. Hes not lecturing them, but in the private meetings he asked pointed questions in a way that made clear his views and his feelings about how they should move forward. David, youve been talking to idf officials, israeli officials, i should say. What are your thoughts . So the first thing i hear after expressions of the trauma that the countrys going through underlies what peter said. Israelis are genuinely grateful if President Bidens support, this combination of embracing israel at a time it really needs it and also being honest and direct about the dangers of overreaching. I hear israeli officials thinking carefully about how to stage this next phase, the Ground Invasion of gaza in a way that doesnt get all of the hostages killed. They have been trying over the last two weeks to map every inch of gaza, to find, if they can, where people are, so that they know where the hostages are being held and know how to behave appropriately. I hear people talking in great detail about how to avoid a twofront war. Every day theres been some kind of action over the lebanese border. The israelis were attempted to go in hard. They worry defense has failed against hezbollah, clearly with others, and the american counsel has been heeded, dont start a twofront war. Finally, i hear a lot of discussion about what happens when this war ends. Israel is committed to deterring hamas and thats the question that well be talking about for weeks and months. The Secretary Of State couldnt answer that, and what happens then . He talked about concerns about this twofront war that david mentions. Well, the twofront war is a choice that iran is making and this isnt israels choice. Right now what we are seeing is the iranians are allowing or asking their proxies, hezbollah and others to harass, to have sort of a lowgrade Harassment Campaign across the syrian border, across the lebanese border, against american troops in iraq. Weve seen two or three separate attacks. Those are coming on iranian orders for sure. So its unclear whether the iranians really want to make this a twofront war. Certainly for the israelis, its absolutely right. They dont want that. They want to be able to focus on hamas. I think the one problem that we see is that as you see these calls for the bear hug, as you described it, right, which ask we love you, stay here, and the problem with that is the israelis have pursued that policy of restraint over the last 15 years, 16 years with hamz. They called it mowing the lawn, right . We get down to people we need to deal with. We push away people we need to push away. They cant do that anymore and they have to finish this no matter what. Great conversation. Thank you all for being here. That is all for today. Thank you for watching, and we will be back next week because if its sunday, its Meet The Press. Et the press. Or being here. That is all for today. Thank you for watching and we will be back next week because if its sunday, its Meet The Press. We suspect that theres a likelihood of escalation, Iranian Forces directed against our