Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240703

Ago members of her family spoke to the media in the last hour. Im so happy youre finally coming home. Weve missed you so much, and hope to you were alive. And safe. And we know you are so brave and strong and so glad your mom made it through this. Natalie and, julies we love you so much, we will see hopefully next week, and were going to celebrate. Were going to have a big party and were going to hug you in case you. We are the first hostages freed since hamas kidnapped more than 200 people during the october 7th attack on israel. In a statement President Biden said, quote, we have not cse our efforts to secure the release of those who are still being held. I think the government of qatar and the government of israel for their partnership in this work, end quote. Just outside gaza, trucks carrying desperately needed humanitarian aid are still waiting to enter. More than 100 trucks are stuck on the egyptian side of the rafah border between egypt and gaza. This comes as an israeli airstrike hit the oldest active church in gaza, killing at least 18 people. The orthodox patriarch out of jerusalem, the main Palestinian Christian denomination, said that Israeli Forces struck the Church Of Saint Poor Furious In gaza city, where hundreds of muslims were shot sheltering inside. Justin amash, the first palestinian to serve in congress, revealed several of his relatives were killed in the attack, and in georgia Kenneth Chesebro, a former trump attorney pled guilty in the Fani Willis Case today and well have more on those stories later in the hour because to fully understand americas role in the world of Foreign Policy right now, we have to acknowledge the very real crisis at home. Tonight im joining you from the nations capital, where its been 17 days seniors was to the house wing of the Republican Caucus voted to remove and was possibly the least effective speaker in american history, Kevin Mccarthy. But they didnt have a plan for what came next and now the House Of Representatives is still without a speaker leaving the american gum government effectively broken. Last night, amid a crisis of the middle east, putins invasion of ukraine, and a Government Shutdown less than a month away, President Biden said this. Im asking congress to make sure we can continue to send ukraine weapons they need to defend themselves with their country, without interruption. So ukraine can stop the brutality in ukraine. They are succeeding. When putin invaded ukraine, he thought he would take kyiv and all of ukraine in a matter of days. Over a year later of putin has failed, and he continues to fail. What would happen if he walked away . We are the essential nation. We are the essential nation. Well, americas ability to be the essential nation the world needs to be right now is paralyzed because we dont have a fully functioning government, and we dont have a functioning government because one of our two main parties, you know which one, no longer believes in governing, and far too many of its members no longer seem to believe in democracy. The house cannot pass any aid to israel or ukraine or even rename a post office after some deserving american because of his failed Republican Party. Today the House Republican conference voted by Secret Ballot to drop jim jordan as their nominee for speaker. That is after jim jordans failed on the third floor vote, setting the record for fewest votes received by a majorities nominees for speaker, two days in a row. He broke his own record. Many republicans publicly voted against jim jordan for speaker got a taste of what many have endured since the start of Donald Trumps maga movement. So far i have had for Death Threats. Ive been evicted from my office in colorado. A notice of eviction. Because the landlord is made. After the Iowa Republican Mariannette Millermeeks voted against jimjordan, she released statement. Quote, i have received credible Death Threats and a barrage of threatening calls. The proper authorities have been notified and my office is cooperating fully. Someone who threatens another with bodily harm or tries to suppress differing opinions undermines trinity for unity and regard for freedom of speech, end quote. Death threats, threatening phone calls and text messages, and an Eviction Notice all because they didnt vote for the trump backed candidate for house speaker. This is the Republican Party. The House Of Representatives is unable to function because the chaos caucus is unable to govern. The house adjourned today until monday with no clear plan to elect a speaker next week. The Republican Party needs to get it together because the world is watching. President biden stressed the importance of americas leadership last night. American leadership is what holds the world together. American reliance is or what keep us america safe and American Values are what make us a partner that other nations want to work with. Joining us now is congressional historian, norm ornstein, an emeritus collar of the American Enterprise institute, and jennifer reuben, an msnbc political analyst. Shes a host of the podcast jen rubins green room. Last time i talk to you guys i thought it was a oneoff conversation that we were gonna talk about house dysfunctional in the Republican Party had become and now im running out of adjectives. Im riding out of things to say because we know the Republican Party is broken but in fairness historically we have had times when the Democratic Party is a little bit broken. This surpasses all historical norms. Absolutely. Weve gone, what is, it 17 days now without a speaker . This is not a failure of one party to negotiate with another or to pass a difficult piece of legislation. This is simply picking a leadership amongst themselves. And this is extraordinary. They are completely paralyzed. This is the natural situation and the natural consequence of Donald Trumps this functional, violent, crazy party. And although i am very sympathetic to those republicans who have received Death Threats, perhaps they now understand what people outside the Republican Party have experienced when they cross donald trump. When it was democrats, independents, members of the media who receiving the sorts of threats. We didnt hear boo from these people. Now that they are getting it, the she was on the other foot. So i think it is really difficult to see how we get out of this, but one thing is clear, and that, is we have a functional, impressive president and it is functional clownish House Of Representatives led by the republicans. I want to get to that point about the president in a moment, but hindsight being 2020, things are becoming clear as we look back. On september 13th, mitt romney published a piece in the atlantic where we found out he wasnt going to run again, in which he talked about republicans in the senate who didnt vote to convict donald trump in his impeachment. He writes, when one senator, a member of leadership, said he was leaning toward voting to convict, the others urged him to consider. You cant do that, romney recalled someone saying. Think of your personal safety, said another. Think of your children. The senator eventually decided they were right. So thats the author of the Story Writing about what mitt romney said. You know, in hindsight now, when you read that i thought to myself, well, thats kind of weird that that would happen. Now we are realizing that there is a basic thuggery that seems to exist among the supporters of donald trump in the United States congress. And its worse than that, ali. It has gone around the country and it affects not just politicians who are cowardly in what they have done, fearing personal safety but also their political careers. But of course we have seen it with violence now against muslims and jews. It has become a culture of violence in the country, and youre right, we can take some of it to donald trump and some of it to talk radio, social media, and other things. I want to put this into a little bit of other Historical Context though, ali. Lets go back 30 years. Newt gingrich pushed aside bob michael, the last great republican leader. Four years later, new greenwich was pushed aside. He is successor, it appeared to be bob livingston, couldnt make it because he had to admit that he had had an affair where the whole thing was impeaching bill clinton. Then we had john boehner pushed aside. The logical successor Kevin Mccarthy at that point was pushed aside. For paul ryan, who couldnt last for more than four years. And then we had mccarthy and now weve got this fars. You said you thought it would be a oneoff, see a next week. [laughter] sadly, thats entirely possible. Jennifer rubin, help us draw the contrast in what we have seen in the world. Its not about whether you agree with joe biden or you even agree with what he is saying and having to do with israel. Joe biden and his team are demonstrating oldfashioned shuttle diplomacy. Theyre flying around the world, they are deeply involved in dealing with the ukraine situation, dealing with the situation between israel and gaza, dealing with the potential and ongoing threat of china and north korea and the fact that iran is in the middle of this tinderbox. It is quite a different scene in the president s world and the world of the administration than it is to the United States congress. It is an amazing split screen, isnt it . You have biden, who is not only leading america but frankly has become almost a titular president of israel because they have a leader, frankly, who is incapable of showing empathy and kindness and understanding. So he is playing the role of grieve orinchief, not only for america, but for another country, for israel. He is making those difficult decisions, as you said. He is engaged in diplomacy. Just today we arranged to have two of the hostages held by hamas released. So as you say, whatever you think of the policies, he is functioning and behaving as the president of United States should. He delivered a serious grownup address from the Oval Office Last night that, frankly, even had a lot of his critics impressed. And then the other side of the screen you had these clowns who were screaming at each other, who cant pick a leader, who cant get organized, emerged from one individual to the next, one scheme to the next. And americans have to look at that and say, the Republican Party is incapable of serving. They are incapable of governing themselves, let alone governing the country. And i hope americans are paying attention to this and taking away the right lesson, which is, unless you get rid of these people and put an emphasis and put a premium on getting a new type of Republican Party, thats what we are stuck with for the foreseeable future. I just got back from israel, and youre not kidding me, i heard a lot of israelis telling me that they would rather have the decisiveness and authoritarian, the authority that joe biden is providing in some cases than people even have with what theyve gotten israel. But let me ask you something, joe biden made the comment that people who want to deal with america are looking at us for leadership. There are a lot of people who dont want to deal with america. Authoritarians around the world who are also looking at the dysfunction in america and perhaps seeking ways to capitalize on it. I think theres no question about that. We have become, in so many ways, a farce to the rest of the world, but also the sense of weakness in leadership. That included Harsh Criticism of biden, even while he was trying to deal with these international crises. We now a substantial number of people in congress who want to cut off aid for ukraine. We know that they continue to push impeachment of joe biden. And lets not forget, ali, that Kevin Mccarthy, steve scalise, jim jordan, the failed ones now, all voted that the election had been stolen, that biden is an illegitimate president. Iv apparently 11 candidates now running to become speaker, nine of them voted that the election had been stolen, right in the immediate aftermath of a violent insurrection. So of course foreign leaders are looking at this and our adversaries are saying, this is great. And russia in particular, which has been trying to sow discontent and division in america, has to be saying, boy did we do a good job. Norma, you make a remarkable point. As norm says, well probably see you next. Week i appreciate both of you. Actually norm, im gonna see you soon or the next week. I think youre gonna be joining me on velshi this weekend. Great work from israel. Yes. Bravo. Thanks to both of. New normal or a store in Steen Engine Rubin thank you. Fani willis and another guilty plea. Today a judgment on the possibility of putting Defendant Trump in jail. But first, the latest on the two hostages released tonight by hamas in a live eye update from israel, next. From israel, next. Is because the golo plan takes a holistic approach to weight loss. We focus on real foods in the right balance so you get the results you want. The Release Supplement makes losing weight easy. 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On the israel hamas war tonight, Two Americans who were being held hostage are now in israel waiting to be reunited with their family after being released by hamas. 59yearold Judith Raanan and her 17yearold daughter, natalie, from evanston, illinois, were held captive since october 7th when hamas attacked. They were visiting family on a kibbutz near the border with gaza. Just an hour ago, natalies father told reporters how it felt to know that his daughter was safe. I havent been sleeping for two weeks. Tonight im going to sleep good. I spoke with my daughter earlier today. She sounds very good. She looks very good. She was very happy. And she is waiting to come home. Her mother has a little scratch on her hand, but she told me it is nothing. She is okay. Im going to hug her and kiss her and its going to be the best day of my life. After an earlier call with the israeli Prime Minister, benjamin netanyahu, President Biden spoke with the Raanan Family telling them they will have the full support of the u. S. Government as they recover from this terrible ordeal. Anthony blinken thanks to the qatari government for helping for the release, and vowed that the u. S. Government would not stop securing the release of other hostages. We share in the relief that their families, friends, and loved ones are feeling. But there are still ten additional americans who remain unaccounted for in this conflict. We know that some of them are being held hostage by hamas, along with an estimated 200 other hostages. Held in gaza. They include men, women, young boys, young girls, elderly people from many nations. Every single one of them should be released. The majority of the 200 hostages are alive and still being held in gaza. Israel continues to pummel gaza with airstrikes, the palestinian and relief agencies report more civilian deaths as Israel Military mobilizes for a potential Ground Invasion to gaza. A spokesman for Israeli Ground forces the release of the hostages today how smart change their strategy, saying its very focused on destroying hamas. Humanitarian aid remains stalled at the rafah crossing along the border of egypt and gaza, something President Biden addressed today. I got a commitment from the israelis and the president of egypt, that the crossing will be open. The highway had to be repaved, it was in very bad shape. And i believe that within the next 24, 48 hours, the first 20 trucks will come across. Joining us now from tel aviv, my colleague the correspondent ellison barber. Alison, the last time i saw you, we were together in israel, and so much has developed since then. Tell me how the calculus has changed, if it hasnt, all with the release of these two hostages . That was the big question tonight, and as President Biden was making his way towards air force one, reporters traveling with him asked him, do you want is really israel to delay its Ground Offensive former hostages to be released . He said yes, but then later the white house clarified saying that he hadnt heard the first part of that question. They said he was losing as to whether not he wanted more hostages to be released but that certainly discussion people are having now. As you said there over 200 people held inside gaza and majority of them, according to israeli officials, they are still alive. You have so many families hoping to have a moment like the one natalie and judiths families had tonight, when they found out they were alive, they found out they were safe, they found out they were coming home. And they are still desperately waiting for any indication that their loved ones are okay or where they are. Most people, they just dont know anything right now. Israel has been pretty adamant in saying that they plan to proceed with a Ground Assault into gaza. They have talked about it a different point is it being imminent and it hasnt happened as quickly as a lot of people were expecting, but they still have over 300,000 troops amassed of the israel gaza border, massive amounts of military equipment, and in the last couple of days we have heard israels Ministry Of Defense speaking to combat troops, Infantry Members there on the border telling them, you have seen gaza from the outside. Soon you will see gaza from the inside. So in terms of their public posture, it doesnt seem theyre going to change what theyre going to do next. They are adamant that their angle was to make sure her never operates again, and they mean governing, they also mean militarily, inside of gaza. That being said, there have been families who have been outside of Military Headquarters in tel aviv prior to this, protesting, watching their loved ones home, and frustrated that it hasnt happened yet. Ali . Ellison, stay safe, my friend. Thank you. Ellison barbara tel aviv. And joining us now is a journalist and i owe you an apology and i was in your country and we didnt get a chance to see each other. But i so rely on your analysis. Lets talk about what ellison was just speaking about, the Israeli Military saying, soon yall see gaza from the inside, seemed to be implying that Ground Offensive. For the families of the hostages, they are, they have been implying that they would like the government to prioritize the hostages, even if that means holding back on some of what is going on in israel, not just the Ground Offensive but the air strikes. What are you hearing from people . Well, we are hearing, still, a lot of confusion. But im sure you have heard when you are here, ali. The government is using this bellicose language and in israel there is a pretty clear feeling and i dont know if its based on fact or not that president s bidens visit was a gamechanger. Today i heard upwardly analysts say that his visit lifted israelis up from the floor where they were before he came, and that touches very close on the hostages families, who he met, who he embraced, to whom he was able to transmit the american commitment to get them out, not only american hostages, but what we are seeing now is something ironically expressed by Judith Raanans brother before their release, when he sped spoke with a an israeli newspaper, and he said thank god they had american citizenship. What are the just israelis going to do . And i think that is a growing fear in israel. Certainly since hamas showed a kind of a Hostage Video of a young girl who is french israeli, and now the release of these american israelis. So this is interesting. When we were talking earlier in the show about the split screen between the United States congress and the president , who is looking very, sort, of worldly. I was there when President Biden gave his first speech, and the reaction by a lot of israelis was very positive. And it creates a certain split screen between him and netanyahu. Is it causing netanyahu to have to elevate his game on this front . To say hey, there may be a way to deal with this thats not about being bellicose . Well, President Bidens handling this, with some sophistication. He very publicly and very unequivocally says, im astronaut exist anymore. He said hamas, i cant remember, you may remember, he said hamas is as bad or worse than i. S. I. S. , that the things that american officials, images that they saw were horrifying. So its not that he is saying israel should hold back, exactly. But he is saying that israel should be measured and he says almost every day, he said it today again in a phone call with israeli Prime Minister netanyahu, that israel must adhere to the rules of war, that democratic nations, maybe you hear the call to prayer outside my house. That the democratic nation, so we have that. What i would say netanyahu looks much smaller than he did before the hamas attack, and President Bidens visit and his determination, both to help israelis and to get rid of hamas, as not helped netanyahu burnishes a. Mitch just waste indicating how late it is, or how early in the morning. That is the first muslim prayer call of the day, because its Early Morning for you. Noga, President Biden intended speech yesterday, you have rage. Do not let the rage consume you. He was saying dont make the mistakes that the west made or, americanmade after 9 11. How that message received . Was it heard . It was almost coated. He didnt say too many ways, but he said it. He said it. Bidens visit was basically received among israelis as a big huge bear hug. Israelis at this point feel that the more responsible person in the room is american president joe biden. You can see in Hebrew Language headlines is sort of lack of comprehension about whats going on in congress, like you were talking about before, headlines saying biden asked, sorry, i cant remember, Ten Billion Dollars in aid, but congress may freeze it. That kind of lack of comprehension of what was happening in congress. I dont know how many options israel has. Israel is in a situation where mass murderers on its border acted out, killing many people, and i think its maybe delaying this part of the vision. Maybe getting prepared, and the plans may not still be there, there are certainly fears for the hostages, but at the moment im not seeing any of the diplomatic efforts offering israel a genuine way out in the sense of saying listen we can eliminate hamas this other way. Thats a hard conversation. I can only hope that it is happening and you and i dont know about it. But we will continue to talk about it is we have a very long time. Noga tarnopolsky, thank, you and thank you for being up for us at this early hour. Coming up, another guilty plea in georgia for fani williss Kenneth Chesebro takes a deal. How restless should the Defendant Trump be tonight . Thats next. Next. Or more can be overwhelming. So, ask your doctor about botox®. Botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. Its the 1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. So far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over Eight Hundred And Fifty Thousand chronic migraine patients. Effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or Muscle Weakness can be signs of a lifethreatening condition. 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Kenneth chesebros last minute decision to plead guilty came after Jury Selection how already began in Fulton County, and one day after his codefendant, sydney powell, also an attorney who worked for trump after the election, took a plea deal of her own. As part of his plea, Deal Chesebro agreed to 100 hours of community service, five years of probation, a 5000 dollar fine, to coinue to provide documents and evidence, and most concerningly, if your name is donald trump, to testify in any further proceedings against his codefendants. She is pros plea deal is undoubtedly a huge win for the d. A. Willis, who is now secure three guilty pleas in the case, including two from trumps inner circle after his Election Loss in 2020. But could jack smith actually be the biggest winner here . Lets ask our legal experts what they think about that. Joining us now, Andrew Weissmann, former fbi general counsel and former chief of the Criminal Division in the Eastern District of new york. Hes a professor at the Nyu Law School and cohost of the important podcast, prosecuting donald trump. Barbara mcquade is a former United States attorney and Law Professor at the university of michigan law school. They are both msnbc legal analysts. Also with us is amy lee copeland, a Criminal Defense Attorney and former georgia federal prosecutor. Welcome to all three of you. Thank you for being with us. Amy lee, let me start with you. This was all thought of by everybody as some sort of a gamble. These two had, Still Chesebro and powell had sought and early trial, and this was going to go to trial. Sydney powell pleads out an hour left with kendis chesebro. What does it mean that he is also blamed . Amy, were having an audio issue with you. Were gonna check that out and come back with you in a moment. Barbara, let me put that question to you. What is the overall significance of this . Well, its incredibly significant for a number of reasons. One is, valueless doesnt have to go to trial next week. She secured a conviction and she has removed any risk of an acquittal by a jury. But also, she avoids having to show her hand with a Preview Trial before the other defendants go to trial. So the most important reason that this is such a win for fani williss, to have the testimony and cooperation of Kenneth Chesebro. He, more than any of these other defendants, is a key to all of this, because he was the architect of the fake electors scheme. So in addition to admitting to committing the crime by conspiring to do that, today he has also provided a recorded proffer of his testimony. That testimony can help her to convict some of the other people involved in this case, including john eastman, including donald trump. Lets talk about that a little bit, andrew. The idea that he has got to provide things. Theyve got a lot of stuff already. They prove the january six prosecution and the fani willis georgia prosecution. It got a lot of stuff connecting all of these folks. What is it, if you are donald trump, what are you most worried about right now . Well, what you dont know with respect to mr. Chesebro, is what exactly he will say. Hes got an obligation to testify truthfully. And if he doesnt, he can go to jail. His deal is that he gets probation if he testifies truthfully. And he will have evidence with respect to coconspirators. He may not have direct evidence against donald trump, but he has direct evidence against Rudy Giuliani and john eastman. And i am if i am one of the two of them, its not a good day because they are both reported to be unindicted coconspirators in the federal case. They are indicted conspirators in the georgia case. And they are now somebody with direct evidence who can testify against them. And as barbara said, what he has pled, to unlike What Sydney Powell pled to, is something that is core to the january 6th scheme. He has now admitted, as part of his guilty plea, that he was part of a scheme to defraud the voters of georgia, to overturn their votes in the president ial election. That is central to the georgia indictment. Amy lee copeland, i think we have you back, we fix the issue. Let me ask you about, everybody involved in the georgia case has done every whatever they could to save their case, moved to federal court, and now there are a bunch of people who are gonna go to trial. What does the fact that this is happened in the last few days mean for the rest of that trial . Well, as barb mentioned. This is great. The dea now does not have to show her case to the other 16 defendants who remained and tried. Thats gonna be an element of surprise. Its a lot easier to hit in this ball if youre opponents as im shooting this forehand crosscourt court. The dea doesnt have the situation. So shes got. That she also has people involved in this game who can give light documents and shed personal touch on the emails. Shes got a really interesting set of cooperators. We of course know about chesebro and powell. Weve talked a lot about them. But lets not underestimate scott hall and bill bonds who pleaded. First when you look at what hes done, hes a number for beginning in the 2020 when hes actually talking to campaign folks about getting something together in georgia. And we see him at the end of the Coffee County scheme, he is a 63 minute call to Jeffrey Clark and hes also in a strange very hurried Telephone Exchange about the threats to the poll workers. So she has three really interesting cooperators, two of home, whose merits seem obvious pretty quickly, and then you get the Bail Bondsmen who seemed to be in a lot of places all at once and dealing with a lot of people. Do you think this results and more cooperators . I think so, especially since paul and chesebro pleaded guilty. They are breaking the code of silence. Theyre there coming forward. And they are showing that its fine to stand up and look out for yourself in this whole situation. Amy lee copeland, thank you for joining. Us andrew and barbara, stay with us, because there is more bad news for Defendant Trump tonight as the judge it is new york fraud case warned he could be imprisoned if he doesnt follow the courts gag order. Well have more on that, next. Next. Is your treatment leaving you with uncontrolled symptoms . Like the coveritups and brushitoffs . Enough with good enoughs. Dont stay hiding or hurting. When your lotions and creams dont do enough to help treat the inflammation beneath the skin, causing plaques and pain, its time to get real about psoriasis, so, your dermatologist can help you get clear. Make the appointment and ask about real clear skin. Liberty mutual customized my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. With the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. Oh. 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The most common side effects are tiredness, headache, pain at the Injection Site, and muscle pain. Ask your pharmacist or doctor about pfizers rsv vaccine, abrysvo. Visit these retailers or find other retailers near you at abrysvo. Com. [deep breath] Type 2 Diabetes . Discover the ozempic® trizone. I got the power of 3. I lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. In studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. Im under 7. Ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known Heart Disease. Im lowering my risk. Adults lost up to 14 pounds. I lost some weight. Ozempic® isnt for people with type 1 diabetes. Dont share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Dont take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple Endocrine Neoplasia Syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. 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Judge engoron told ump attorneys, quote, i made it clear that failure to comply will result in serious sanc they remained on thedona j Trump Campaign site, and in fact it has been onhere for the past 17 days. It was moved late last night after an email from Ourt Incendiary Untruths can and have led to serious physical harm. And quote. Trumps attorneys apologized to the judge, claiming that the post was mistakenly left up on the man Campaign Website after it was removed from social media. Judge engoron find trump 5,000 and said make no mistake, future phony violations, whether intentional or intentional, will subject violator to fire more severe sanctions which may include or are not limited to steeper financial penalties, Holding Donald trump and kim turn tempt of court, and possibly imprisoning him, and to quote. Later today trump said trump said a Fundraising Email said im willing to go to jail. And widened specifically said the gag order, he seemed clearly what he was referring to. In other gag order news, can you believe, that the gag order the judge tanya checkin placed on trump has been temporarily suspended while trump appeals. Judge chutkan will issue her final ruling on the gag order after october 28th. Still with, us Andrew Weissmann and barbara mcquade. These two gag orders are different things. We will talk about them both. Andrew, lets talk about judge engorons, the 5000 dollar fine. The response ive seen from many people to that is, one of the 5000 dollar fine for donald trump mean . Tell me what the significance of it is . The amount of money is nothing. But what he is saying is, look, i credit that you do this inadvertently. You took down the post, social media, but you didnt do it from your website. But the judge had every right to be livid, because what he is concerned about, and what i think all courts that have donald trump is a defendant would be concerned about, is he is language resulting in people being hurt. And witnesses being in danger and threatened and people who are just civil servants, doing their job, having to fear for their lives. All of those are concerns because of the language of the former president of the United States. And so judge angela was saying look, i understand what was happening here. It better not happen. Again its important to know that he did say that the penalty for this Going Forward can include going to jail. Obviously any judge is going to consider the circumstances, whether its intentional and whether its a blatant violation with respect to witnesses or other people that would result in harm. Barbara, lets talk about judge tanya chutkan, the d. C. Federal case where there was also a partial gag order on donald trump. He appealed it and she has issued what is called an administrative stay, which i understand to mean that the parties now have until october 28, or whatever date she puts, to make their submissions and she will make a decision on it. Yes, shes is preserving status quo, shes not gonna enforce the gag order until they work through this next round of motions, and that is donald trump has said he wants to appeal and until the appeal is resolved, once the ability to be able to speak. But the judge will allow the prosecutors to respond, to see what the responses. Shes really giving him a lot of leash here. I think your gag order is on very solid ground. Just because its so narrow, certainly restrictions on speech are viewed with a great deal of skepticism, but the test is usually whether there is compelling governmental interest and the order is narrowly tailored to achieve that interest. So here when youre thinking about the administration of justice on the safety of all of the people involved here, the very narrow order just says he cannot publicly target members of the court staff, not including her. Witnesses in the case. Parties to the case. But he can say anything he wants about the justice department, about joe biden in the biden ministration, about the case, and even about judge chutkan herself. And so i think that this order is appropriately narrow. I think it will withstand appeal. And the question is simply whether in the meantime donald trump will be subject to this gag order. The two judges, andrew, different cases, different circumstances, and the new york case the material parts of it are largely settled at this point. And it seems like judge anger rhonda has less reason to be on pins and needles on this one. Obviously tanya chutkan, this is very serious case, criminally, for donald trump, and she is under a microscope for each one of these decisions. Do you see it differently because of that . Do you think she is giving them a lot of leeway because of that . I think there are two different interests at stake. One interest is the prosecution said im concerned about donald trump essentially polluting the jury pool, and what he could say that would influence potential jurors. But judge chutkan and judge engoron i really focusing on very different issue, which is the integrity of the system in terms of witnesses not being threatened. Participants in the system not being threatened. It has much more to do with violence and what could happen to those people. And that doesnt matter whether its a civil case or criminal case. Its also why, for instance, judge kaplan in the e. Jean carroll case, took steps to protect the jury. That also is a civil case. But remarkably, what were talking about is judges in cases involving the former leader of the free world and people being concerned about his using rhetoric that can result in violence to people who are just doing their job. And that is what you are seeing the judicial system trying to deal with with the former president. So this is an important distinction. In new york the judge is worried about safety and harm that comes to people. In georgia, it is something as well to do with, im sorry, in d. C. And has something to do with the jury pool. The donald trump team, barbara, has filed a motion opposing jack smiths request to protect juror identity, saying President Trump expressly does not agree to a juror anonymity and i think this response should be construed as consent to such extraordinary measures. Additionally President Trump objects to any objection that the jury faces a risk of harm due to their participation in President Trumps trial. What do you make of that . Yeah, i think you are anonymity is an absolute nobrainer in this case. If youre in a dependent, i suppose, it will send an asked adverse message about you, that the jury needs to be anonymous, but the real concern is, Trump Supporters out there, just as we saw in georgia, when the names of the grand jurors who indicted that case, we reveal to the public, they got all kinds of harassment and threats. The same kind of thing would very likely befall the people serving on the jury. When people answer the call to jury duty, they should not have to worry about harassment or threats. And might be difficult to see the jury if people are worried about the safety of themselves or their families. I think for that reason it is very likely, in my view, that the jury in that case will be anonymous. Im so grateful to the tune of. You i get so much smarter by asking you these questions. Thanks again for providing your expertise and your amazing analysis. Andrew weissmann, barbara mcquade, thank you. And tonights last word is next. St word is next so i can feel and see that my lines have gotten deeper just from a year out in the sun. Im still marie and i got botox® cosmetic. I did not want a dramatic change. I wanted something subtle. And im really, really happy with the results. Its still me, but with fewer lines. Botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crows feet, and Forehead Lines look better. The effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or Muscle Weakness may be a sign of a lifethreatening condition. Do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. Side effects may include allergic reactions, Injection Site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. Tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including Botulinum Toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. See for yourself at botoxcosmetic. Com. Have Heart Failure with unresolved symptoms . It may be time to see the bigger picture. Heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome. Shortness of breath. And Irregular Heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attrcm a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. Sound like you . Call your cardiologist and ask about attrcm. He hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Youre replacing me . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. I have Type 2 Diabetes, but i manage it well. Jardiance its a little pill with a big story to tell. I take oncedaily jardiance, at each days staaart. As time went on it was easy to seee. Im lowering my a1c. Jardiance works 24 7 in your body to flush out some sugar and for adults with Type 2 Diabetes and known Heart Disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. Jardiance may cause serious side effects including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and Genital Yeast or urinary tract infections. A rare, lifethreatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. Stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction, and dont take it if youre on dialysis. Taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Jardiance is really swell, the little pill with a big story to tell. Heres why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. Duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. Unlike chrome, the Duckduckgo Browser has privacy builtin. It comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. And theres no catch. Its free. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you around. Before we go tonight, a join the millions of people taking back their privacy by Downloading Duckduckgo On Mobile and desktop today. Reminder of the back again tomorrow. Join me at 10 am eastern for my show, velshi. Abe hosting conversation about what we as a News Organization are doing to fight the fog of war. Well pull back the curtain and show you the process we go through to vet news and information before its reported on air. Ill be joined by the head of our social newsgathering team, was gonna walk us through the process, which includes a combination of modern tech tools and oldfashioned reporting. Its much more complicated than you might might imagine. Thats tomorrow morning at 10 am eastern on velshi. Thats tonights last word. The 11th hour with my friend Stephanie Ruhle begins right now. My friend they were just all around. Me they were going three by three and shooting. People were dying like all around