This hour, reaction to President Bidens primetime oval office appeal for 105 billion in Military Support for israel and ukraine. History taught us when terror i haves dont pay a price for their terror, when dictators dont pay a price, they keep going. The cost and the threats to america and the world keep rising. The president pushing back on congressional critics balking. Its a smart investment thats going to pay for American Security for generations, keep us american troops out of harms way. Reaching out to muslims at home, feeling the pain of islamaphobia. You are hurting. I want you to know, i see you. You belong. I want to say this to you, you are all american. You are all american. Threats mount to u. S. Troops in baghdad. New signs that israels Ground Invasion into gaza may now be imminent. The Aid Deliveries are still not moving from egypt. Protests grow in the west bank. Good day, everyone. Im Andrea Mitchell In Washington where House Republicans are finishing the week exactly the same way they started, with a glaring Leadership Void and no clear path out of their dysfunction. Ohio republican jim jordan unwilling to access he is not closer to securing the gavel went to the floor to suffer a third defeat and losing more support within the conference. Can any republican get the votes needed to end the stalemate . Joining me now, nbc capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, Msnbc National Political Correspondent Steve Kornacki at the big board and former michigan congressman fred upton. Steve, first to you. Jim jordan lost three key republican members this time, three more. Yeah. Three who have something in common. They are three republicans, each from a district that voted for joe biden in 2020. They are three republicans from blue districts. Who are they . One is brian fitzpatrick. He is from bucks county, pennsylvania. His district, right outside philadelphia, he voted for jordan twice in the first two rounds. His District Voted for biden by six points. He sent indications he was ready to move on maybe to mchenry that didnt go anywhere. He defected away from jordan. The next one was mark molinaro, a freshman from new york. Lower catskills, southern tier, if you can picture that. Very politically competitive territory. Voted for biden by five points, that district under its current configuration, in 2020. The third to break is from new jersey, tom kane, son of the former governor. A freshman republican. Had voted jordan on both of the first two ballots. His District Voted for joe biden by four points in 2020. Kane is a target in 2024. A lot of folks were surprised he had been with jordan. On the third round, he moved away from jordan. This means that of the 18 Biden District Republicans in the house, nine of them, with the addition of these three, nine of them have now voted against jim juror dan. That means nine are voting for jim jordan. That might be one of the other surprises here. David valadaio, mike garcia from los angeles county, his District Voted for biden by double digits, they stayed with jim jordan for a third vote. Maybe a surprise there. The bottom line, all of the previous votes i can show you here. All of the previous votes against jim jordan from the blast ballot, none of them switched over. None of them went to jordan. He gained zero new votes on this ballot. As we just said, he lost three additional. Thats a total of 25 republican defections. The total number of votes that jim jordan got was 194. Number one, the number of republicans breaking from him has gone up on every ballot. From 20 on the first ballot to 22 on the second and now to 25. That number of 194 total votes for jim jordan, think back to Kevin Mccarthy and how it took him 15 rounds to win the speakership to interrupt you, lets hear the gavel. The honorable jim jordan of the state of ohio has received 194. The honorable Hakeem Jeffries has received 210. [ applause ] the honorable Patrick Mchenry from the state of North Carolina has received six. [ applause ] all right. The house will come to order. The house will come to order. The honorable Byron Donalds has received two. [ applause ] the honorable tom emmer has received one. Lee zeldin has received four. The honorable Steve Scalise of louisiana has received eight. The honorable mike garcia of the state of california has received one. The honorable Kevin Mccarthy of the state of california has received two. The honorable Bruce Westerman of the state of arkansas has received one. No person having received a majority of the whole number of votes cast, a speaker has not been elected. The chair declares the house in Recess Subject to the call of the chair. Ryan nobles, Steve Kornacki with us. Ryan, jump in for a second and talk about the divisions here. The republicans are going into a meeting to try to figure out what to do next. Reporter thats the talk. Nothing has officially been scheduled. Kevin mccarthy actually left the floor and told Garrett Haake that he was hearing that there could be a meeting around 1 00 this afternoon where they would get Behind Closed Doors and try to hash this out. No meeting has officially been scheduled. Theres just talk of it. Theres talk about gathering together, but usually its up to the nominee to decide how to proceed. If i can, i just want to share the statistic put together by our resident capitol hill historian cal stewart on our team. This is fascinating. According to the research, jim jordan tied the number for the fewest number of votes since the house was set at 435 members. The last person to get 194 votes as a Majority Nominee was frederick gillette. It took him nine ballots to win. That puts into context how historic this loss was for jim jordan. It illuminates the trend line he is facing, where he is losing votes, not picking them up. Despite that, jordan seems insistent on moving forward. It seems pretty clear that even in his effort there was talk there were new york republicans that might move over to his side today. They all held firm. In fact, several new york republicans ended up going on the opposite side of voting for jordan. This continues to be a bleak situation. Obviously, this was difficult for jim juror dan. To be clear, theres no one else that right now appears to have the support to win 217 votes, which is the reason the house is paralyzed right now. Fred upton, from your experience as a veteran member of congress and now a former member of congress, what have you learned from this aside from the fact that retiring from congress was a really good move . My wife is so happy. I am in a fun house in main. We have to put our the fire In Washington. We have the arsonists oppose the speaker. It is our third week. Jim jordan lost a few more votes. He will lose more if he pushes this to another vote. I have heard that a number of republicans are saying, its over. We are looking for something else. I wish we had gotten to the point a number of days ago. A colleague said he doesnt think baby jesus, Mary And Joseph could get 217 votes. We have to put out the fire. We need a speaker. The Government Shutdown is looming. We need a speaker. Having jim jordan insist again when he is losing its not like he is picking up steam. He is losing it. He will lose more. Its time to get together and try to get a bipartisan solution if republicans can shown they cant get 217. They cant. What eventually happens, best scenario for the republicans and maybe the country . A dark horse comes in . Theres no scenario where mccarthy would swing over those seven or eight revolutionaries, i should say, the radicals and say, enough, lets go back to Kevin Mccarthy. I dont think that will happen. Yesterday at the conference that they had, the republican conference, he told matt gaetz the ringleader, sit your ass down. Thats his quote. My initials were used. They filled them out in terms of yelling at matt gaetz. Those eight are not going to switch. We have to look for a different alternative. Frankly, i thought the mchenry temporary speaker until january would be a good thing. Give him power. We can resolve these issues. Mchenry doesnt want it. At the end, the plug was pulled on that. Maybe they come back to that this afternoon as reality does sink in that jordan will continue to lose votes. If he calls for another vote, it will be more than 25. It will be 30 or 35. The Death Threats out there i saw what happened with don bacons wife and others. I heard they ransacked a hotel room, offices protested, those tactics dont work. Its time to move on. The current one doesnt work. Ken buck telling Kristin Welker he lost the lease to his District Office by a jim jordan trump supporter, which is kind of extraordinary. Ryan nobles, Steve Kornacki, fred upton, thanks for starting us off. The direct appeal, the president bringing his case for supporting israel to the American People in his second oval office address, a rare address for this president , as a Ground Invasion into gaza seems increasingly imminent. Thats all next when Andrea Mitchell reports comes back in 60 seconds. Stay with us. You are watching msnbc. Watchingc megawatts of power, rails and open road, and essential services of every kind. All running on countless invisible networks, making it a prime target for cyberattacks. But the same aipowered security that protects all of google also defends the systems running americas infrastructure. For these services. For the 336 million of us living here. In his second primetime address from the oval office, President Biden making his case for supporting both israel and ukraine. He followed up this morning with a request to congress for more than 105 billion in military and humanitarian aid for those two wars, plus aid for taiwan and for the u. S. Border. Why does this matter to america . Let me share with you why making sure israel and ukraine succeed is vital for americas security. When terrorists dont pay a price, when dictators dont pay a price, they cause more chaos and death and more destruction. They keep going. This as the only escape from gaza into egypt still remains closed to americans, to the palestinians, to others from gaza, to the aid workers all trying to get out. Aid desperately needed by gazans despite promises from all sides to the president , cant get in. Israels Defense Minister has signalled the anticipated Ground Offensive could now be imminent. Protests in the west bank grew as witnesses earlier witnessed, i should say, by Richard Engel in the middle of it all. Reporter we are in the west bank. Protesters are on the streets here to denounce israel. The people that we are with, carrying green flags they are supporting hamas. They have been shouting hamas needs to do more attacks. Its not just here where anger is growing. Its across the middle east. It could get more intense. Joining us now, White House Correspondent martin fletcher. Spent more than 30 years reporting from the region. The president making a direct appeal to the American People. What is the reaction to the speech so far . You are right, the president did make the direct appeal saying American Leadership is what holds the world together and saying that he felt the investment that he is asking for with this supplemental funding, the request that went in today, is an investment for the safety, the National Security of the United States for generations to come. Part of his message that related to israel and the Funding Request of 14 billion is something that theres been a lot of congressional support for, supporting the president in supporting israel. It stands to reason that that support will continue. Where we have seen pushback is with ukraine. The support for funding that war effort has been waning in congress and in different parts of the citizenry here in the United States. The largest portion of the 92 billion requested for National Security efforts would go to ukraine. Its yet to be seen what the pushback would be on potentially trying to separate the Funding Requests gone to capitol hill. Raf, tell us whats happening there. We saw the Defense Minister addressing the troops in the last 24 hours or so. What are the signs of mobilization . You have 360,000 reservists who have been on point for nearly two weeks. Yeah, andrea, the Defense Minister meeting with israeli troops a couple miles south of here telling them, you are looking at gaza, you will be inside gaza soon. We have been looking for signs when that may come. Every night here, the sky is illuminated by orange flares, which is usually a sign israel is moving Ground Troops near the border. The sunrises every morning and that Israeli Ground offensive has not begun. It come at any time. There has been a diplomatic Guessing Game about whether the israelis are waiting for all of the visits by foreign leaders to come and go. We had President Biden here. We had the british prime minister. We are expecting macron at some point. It may be it wont be dictated by the foreign leaders visits. Another factor is the hostages. We dont know if the delay is something to do with either trying to put a Hostage Rescue Plan in place or to allow a little bit more time for the Back Channel Negotiations involving the qataris and others to play out. 360,000 reservists mobilized. The feeling is they will move soon. One other piece is the aid is still not in, raf. The egyptian crossing not open. We have promises made to the president of the United States last wednesday in person. You have had the u. N. Security the secretarygeneral of the u. N. At The Rafah Crossing and others in the region. He called for a ceasefire, which was an uncomfortable dip diplomatic move. If thats coming open, people could get out and the aid could get in. The president had been wanting some sort of corridors longterm to get aid in and israel to agree to safe zones, intermittent pauses. Raf . The hope was to set up some kind of sustainable aid corridor. President biden secured this agreement. He says to get 20 aid trucks through from egypt into southern gaza. That really is kind of a drop in the bucket in terms of how much aid the palestinians need inside of gaza. It would be a good start. As you said, today was supposed to be the day. The white house was expressing a lot of optimism yesterday that today we would see the rafah Border Crossing open. Its not open. It remains unclear what the holdup is. The egyptians say its not on their side. They are prepared for this to go. We know there have been concerned on the israeli side about what exactly would be flowing into gaza. One issue is this question of fuel. The United Nations is saying, fuel is the absolute life line for getting aid out. You need diesel to keep the power plants inside of gaza running, to keep the lights on at the hospitals. The israelis have concerns that fuel, that other supplies that comes in from egypt could be commandeered by hamas, used as part of the war effort. Once this aid crosses over into gaza, theres really no mechanism for the israelis, the americans, the egyptians or anyone else to see where its going to make sure it doesnt fall into hamas hands. Its something the president has said is important. The fuel is critical to get the water pumps going. No water without fuel. I will be right back. Go to Fulton County, georgia, to the judge. We believe there may be a change of plea. Lets listen in. Mr. Chesebro, swear him in and proceed. You want me at the podium . He will take the podium. Why dont we have you there . Stand right there. Need you where we can hear you. I can stand. Can you hear me . Judge, would you like me to give you the conditions of the sentence of the recommendation . If its negotiated, we can start at the top. Got it. Thank you. Mr. Chesebro, raise your right hand. Lower your hand and state your name. Kenneth john chesebro. Are you named in the indictment 23189947 . Yes. Are you under the influence of any drugs, alcohol, or medication today . No. Is there any medication you should be taking that you have not . No. How old are you . 62. Are you able to read, write and understand the english language . Yes. Have you gone over the indictment with your attorney . Yes. Do you understand that you are charged with rico, count nine conspiracy to commit Impersonaing A public officer, commit forgery, conspiracy to commit false filings in writings, conspiracy to false filings filing false documents, conspiracy to commit forgery, conspiracy to commit false statements in writing . Yes. Do you understand that the state has that this is the negotiated plea and as part of that, the state has agreed to move forward on count 15 only . Yes. Has your attorney advised you of the minimum and maximum sentence for count 15 which is conspiracy to commit filing false documents . Yes. Do you understand that that carries a minimum of one year to a maximum of five years to serve . I do. Do you understand that you have the right to plead guilty or not guilty, and if you plead not guilty or remain silent, you may receive a jury trial . Yes. Have you reviewed the waiver of rights form with your attorney . I have. Have you signed it as well . Yes, i have. Along with your attorney . Yes. Have you had enough time to speak with your attorneys . Yes. Have you had an opportunity to talk with them about all the facts and circumstances regarding the charges in the indictment, including your potential defenses . I have. Do you need more time to discuss your case with either of your attorneys . No. Are you satisfied with their services . Yes. Do you waive formal reading of the indictment . Yes. Any and all defects in the indictment . Yes. Mr. Chesebro have you been arrested on these charges in the indictment . Yes. The state is unaware of any outstanding warrants related to the charges. Do you or your attorneys know of any outstanding warrants . No. No. Do you understand that this is a negotiated plea, which means your attorneys and the state have reached a negotiated recommendation to make to the court . I do. Do you understand that the court is not bound by that recommendation and could sentence you to the maximum penalty . I do. Do you understand that the recommendation in this particular case as to count 15 conspiracy to commit filing false documents is five years to be served on probation, 5,000 fine, and that you are i believe you are asking the court to treat you as a first offender. Is that correct . Yes. Im sorry, 5,000 restitution. You understand that . Yes. Do you understand specific conditions of the probation is you complete 100 hours of Community Service . Yes. And write an Apology Letter to the citizens of georgia . I have. And you testify, you have no communication with witnesses or the media until all cases have been resolved against all codefendants . Yes. Do you understand that you must give a full recorded proffer with the state that you provide documents and evidence subject to any lawful privileges asserted in good faith . Yes. The defendant has done an Apology Letter. Mr. Chesebro along with counsel did Give A Proffer to the state. I believe theres an understanding any outstanding emails, Text Messages or any of those things will be turned over. Yes. Mr. Chesebro, do you understand as i said before if the judge does not follow the recommendation, you can go forward with trial . Yes. Do you understand this is for your case, you ask for first offender. Once you complete that, you can say you have not been convicted of a felony. I will go over that with you more. I understand. Do you understand this may be used to enhance sentencing on any other convictions you may have and any other jurisdictions . Yes. Do you understand that you are being placed on probation as part of this plea as being on probation you cannot violate any criminal laws of any governmental unit or any specific conditions of the probation . Yes. Do you understand that if you violate your probation or any of the special conditions, you will be subject to revocation of the balance of the sentence . Yes. Do you understand you are not allowed to possess or use firearms as a result of this . Yes. Do you understand that if you are not a United States citizen, this guilty plea will affect your Immigration Status and will result in deportation like a conviction at trial would and that this is true regardless of any advice your attorney may have given you or anyone may have given you . Yes. Fortunately, i am. Do you understand that you there may be other adverse or unfavorable consequences as a result of this guilty plea, as for a conviction after trial . It may affect your right to vote, your right to hold public office, the right to serve as a juror, the right to obtain a pass passport, the ability to obtain employment and your membership of any state or federal bars of which you are a member . Yes. Do you understand that by Pleading Guilty, if you use, receive, possess, transport a firearm or use one in a crime, you will be guilty of a felony . Yes. Its my understanding you are asking the court to treat you as a first offender. Correct. Have you gone over the first offender act with your attorneys . Yes, i have. Have you ever pled guilty or been convicted of a felony in any jurisdiction . No. Have you ever been sentenced for any crime, felony or Misda Misdemean misdemeanor . No. If you commit a new offense while on first offender probation, your status could be revoked, could you be adjudicated and you could be resentenced up to the maximum sentence . Yes. Do you understand that if you went to trial, you would have the right to trial by jury, the right to see, hear and confront witnesses, the right to testify or remain silent and not incriminate yourself . I do. Do you understand that this guilty plea, you are giving up those rights, the right to a trial, the right to remain silent, the right to confront witnesses, the right of assistance of counsel hired by you or appointed by the court if you could not afford one, the right of the presumption of innocence, the right to testify on your own behalf or to present evidence on your behalf, the right to subpoena witnesses and the right to have charges against you be proven Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and the right to appeal . Do you understand you are giving up these rights . Yes, i understand all that. Has anyone forced, threatened or promised you anything for you to enter into this guilty plea . No. Its your decision because you are guilty . Yes. How do you plead to count 15, conspiracy to commit filing false documents . Guilty. Have you and your attorney signed that indictment . Yes. The indictment has been signed. Is your guilty plea freely and voluntarily given . Yes. Do you understand that you only have a limited right to appeal . Yes. And do you understand that you would have four years from todays date in order to file a petition challenging this . I do. Your honor, the state has confirmed mr. Chesebro does not have any Felony Convictions at all. He has no criminal history to the states knowledge. If this were to go to trial, the state would have shown the following. Between November 18 Of 2020 and january 6 of 2021, the defendant and coconspirators Donald John Trump, rudy giuliani, john eastman, ray smith, robert can cancheeley to falsely hold themselves out as the duly elect and qualified electors for the president and Vice President from georgia following the november 3, 2020 president ial election. The objectives included, to recruit certain individuals to falsely hold themselves out as the qualifies president ial electors from georgia, to create false Electoral College documents, including a false certificate of vote purported to have been made by the authority of the duly elected and qualified president ial electors from georgia, to falsely state that coconspirator Donald John Trump had won all of georgias Electoral College votes, and to deliver those false documents to georgia secretary of state, the chief judge of the Northern District of georgia, the archivist of the United States, and the president of the United States citizen being the Vice President. The purpose of creating these and delivering this false documents were to disrupt and delay the joint Session Of Congress on january 6, 2021. By using the false documents from georgia in an attempt to call Michael Pence to violate the Electoral College act. It was part of a conspiracy to overturn the results of the november 3, 2020 president ial election in favor of the coconspirator Donald John Trump, who did not win that election. Specifically, pertaining to count 15, federal laws require the documents are maintained in multiple places, including the United States District Court where the electors met and cast votes, in the Northern District of georgia, they are maintained in the Clerks Office with other noncase related documents, including standing orders, document maintained in the safe are public records that can be inspected by members of the public and members of the public can request certified copies that contain the clerks official seal. Overt acts committed to affect this object of the conspiracy included but not limited to the following. One, the defendant created and distributed false Electoral College documents to individuals in georgia and other states in coordination with Donald John Trump for president , inc. , known as the trump campaign. The defendant provided detailed instructions to coconspirators in georgia and other states for creating and distributing these false documents. They selected the director of the Republican National committee to get fake electors in georgia and other states. Giuliani solicited persons to serve as false electors and provided strategic instructions to several coconspirators concerning the execution in multiple states. David james, sean steele and Kathleen Lathom met to create false Electoral College documents that falsely stated that the coconspirator donald trump had received all of the votes and delivered those to congress and other governmental entities. As the clerk continues to read the indictment with which we have been familiar for several months, i want to bring in laura jarrett, our senior Legal Correspondent and coanchor of saturday today, katie fung, our Legal Correspondent as well as former u. S. Attorney joyce vance. Laura, to you. The significance of Kenneth Chesebro switching his plea, following what Sidney Powell did the other day, switching his plea to guilty, it seems to my read on this one count, count 15, its a felony of filing false documents, but it seems to me its a very light sentence that was a minimum of one to five incarceration and he ended up with a fine, Community Service, a letter of apology. Its hard to overstate i think the significance of what we have just watched unfold here. You have somebody who prosecutors believe was at the center of the scheme to create false slates of electors to put forth to National Archives and congress to overturn the will of the people, overturn the Election Results in georgia, who has now pled guilty to a felony. This is the first one we have seen plead guilty to a felony. In return, for his cooperation, for his help to prosecutors, he is getting probation. That means he has given them something significant to the likes of what we saw yesterday with his codefendant Sidney Powell. Another attorney who was also at the center of the schemes to overturn the election and also receiving probation in return for her cooperation. To have the two of them together, i cannot overstate enough how significant this is. Katie, lets talk about this. In washington, d. C. , he is codefendant number five. We dont know whether this is a universal Plea Agreement or whether he is just now having that held over him. He was advised here in what the clerk read that anything that he says here can be used against him in the federal case if for some reason jack smith should be deciding to do that. Andrea, that is the legal peril all of the defendants in Fulton County are going to be facing. Any of them that are perhaps the unindicted coconspirators in jack smiths indictments that are only prosecuting donald trump. Lauras point, the fact he is on probation in a special condition to provide truthful testimony, like Sidney Powell, has to do the same, means if he fails to do so, he runs the risk of prison time in georgia. To your point as well, it creates a lot of legal exposure for somebody like Kenneth Chesebro. He was called the architect of the plan to overturn the results of the 2020 election. It was his legal memorandum that judge scott mcafee just ruled within 48 hours ago would be admissible to be presented to the jury by the state of georgia. Those legal memorandum were the road maps that were provided to the slates of fake electors across the country. I think i want to emphasize also the fact that with Kenneth Chesebro taking a plea, not only is it the first felony plea we have seen so far in this case, but in addition, you will note these are conspiracy charges. You cant have a conspiracy if you dont have other people involved. Thats the reason why the continuing need and the demand by fani willis these defendants provide truthful testimony directly implicates the remaining codefendants left to go to trial. Joyce vance, the significance of this is obvious for the former president who had multiple meetings with Kenneth Chesebro. Right. I think its not entirely clear that chesebro will be able to testify directly against the former president. The way these sorts of conspiracy cases work is that prosecutors start by flipping people who are lower down in the conspiracy and plying them against people further up the food chain. Chesebro is valuable even if his cooperation yields additional evidence against some of the other lawyers, rudy giuliani, perhaps others in trumps orbit who can then offer very clear, direct testimony against trump. Its interesting that we are seeing now progressive Plea Agreements. Chesebro, as laura pointed out, is the first of the defendants who is Pleading Guilty to a felony. Apparently, Misdemeanor Deals are coming to an end. He will not serve prison time. But this is a signal to other defendants that its time to get on the bus or to end up underneath it. Does this validate fani willis strategy of indicting 19 people . I think it really signifies what prosecutors know, is that you indict all of the people who your evidence suggests were among the most culpable participants knowing full will you may indict 19 people but its very unlikely that all of them will go to trial. At the end of the day, this will be a slimmed down trial when it takes place. Probably with defendants in single digits. Its possible that it could end up being just donald trump sitting alone at the defense table. Laura jarrett, in terms of concluding how valuable his testimony could be, you alluded to that. You may that clear. He is getting an extremely light penalty, the probation, the fine, the Community Service, the letter of apology. None of that adds up to the threat of imprisonment. No. The mandatory minimum here. Right. Compared to what he is facing, these pleas, while a reversal of their previous positions and remarkable in that regard, they are not necessarily surprising for people who are acting in their selfinterest. When they are facing prison time, you often see this happen. Someone has a late come to jesus moment. Its not as if they didnt fight in court. Both powell and chesebro tried to fight the indictment, tried to get it dismissed. The judge didnt buy their arguments. Now sort of we are where we are, i should mention, one of the things thats interesting is you sort of heard previews of the former president s defense pointing the finger at his attorneys, signaling that thats where he might be going and his legal strategy. You have two of his former attorneys Pleading Guilty. They are going to be prosecution witnesses against him, should they be called. As both joyce and katie pointed out, we still have jack smith waiting in the wings. They havent charged by the feds. They are not indicted in those cases. They are at the center of those indictments. They are percolating in the back. You can be sure if they do take the stand, jack smith is going to be paying close attention to what they have to say. Thanks on Breaking News to katie, laura and joyce. Thank you all so much. Straight ahead, israel and hamas Trading Blame over the bombing at the hospital. Tensions are spreading across the region. Thats next. This very short break. We will be right back. This is Andrea Mitchell reports. You are watching msnbc. This is l reports. You are watching msnbc eat it th. Aveeno® Daily Moisture with prebiotic oat is proven to moisturize dry skin all day. Youll love our formula for face, too. Aveeno® joining me now as we turn back to the middle east, martin fletcher, our former nbc news correspondent for more than 30 years, bureau chief in tel aviv, all your years reporting for nbc news. We are grateful to you for being back with us. Martin, the idea that there are 203 confirmed hostages inside the gaza strip and 100 additional people missing. That could add to the list of hostages, of course. Unfortunately, you have a very personal story, a family story which you only learned about last night or yesterday afternoon. Talk to me about what you learned. I do. I did and i do. It was shocking. I found out yesterday that two of my wifes family are, indeed, among the hostages. They are americans from illinois. They were visiting family in southern israel when the attack happened. They were last seen dragged away, their hands tied by the hamas terrorists, into gaza. Thats all we know. As you can imagine, i have been receiving lots of messages of support, which i passed on to the immediate family in america and in israel. Its tragic. We are just one of many families. As you said, 203 hostages is the latest number. We dont know how real that is yet. Thats lots of families affected in the same way we are. Its not only immediate family, but probably another ten to 15 families around each individual family. Thats a lot of people in a tiny country israel, suffering, waiting, hoping. Afraid, of course, when theres a Ground Invasion, israels priority is going to be if and when theres a Ground Invasion, israels priority is to defeat hamas. We know from what we know of hamas, what we have learned from them, that those hostages will become human shields. There was an order by hamas saying among the papers discovered saying, kill the difficult ones and use the rest as human shields. Thats what we know. Thats whats happening. From what your experience covering hamas, covering gaza, the Israeli Government, what do you think about hamas tactics here . What can we expect . Well, i have to say, andrea, that my understanding of hamas changed. To be honest with you, my First Response when hostages were taken was, this is hamas. They are an islamic organization. They will look after the hostages. Thats what i thought. Now we are finding out hostages inside gaza have been killed. Then when we heard of the horrific things the socalled islamic fighters, who are terrorists, did to the israelis and jews, including i dont want to go into all the details. One thing i find very convincing is that theres an organization of Orthodox Jews who go around after Suicide Bombings and these situations picking up bones and flesh and giving it a proper burial, not only of jews but of the perpetrators, they said one of the members said, a responsible older man said what horrified him most was when he found two piles of babies that were burnt, 10 to 12 babies. My understanding of who the hamas fighters are has changed from thinking, its an islamic organization, they treat their prisoners well, to the opposite, which is these are horrific terrorists and israel needs to do what they said, destroy them. I dont know what good it will do in the long run. But theres a sense of fury and anger in israel. Never again, well it happened again. From the perspective of your Family Members as they go through this horror, what is their reaction to the way they have been treated by the state department, by the president . He has been reaching out to some of these Family Members, especially the americans. And to the israelis when he was there. I think all of the Hostage Famiies looking at what President Biden said with respect and gratitude. I know the fbi has contacted my family. They have contacted probably by now all of the families, i assume. The fbi is on the ground. They are helping the israelis in terms of intelligence. I dont know what good it will do. Its reassuring to my family and other families that they are being taken very seriously. I think the message from i dont want to say my saying my family, you know, the the hostage families. The message is please keep paying attention to our dilemma, our situation. Dont give up on the hostages. One immediate thing we can all do is get the Red Cross To Go Into Gaza and establish communications with the families. Thats what normally happens in these situations. The red cross are the first to go in and establish whos alive, what condition are they in . What are the conditions of the the health conditions, many of these people are older jews who need medication, you know. So red cross would be the next move, i think, to go in and find out whats going on. Thats what we need to happen immediately. Thats supposed to happen under the rules of law, of war rather, so the law of wartime. Martin, our hearts are with you. Please give our love to your wife, to the whole family. I will, thank you, andrea. And joining us now is retired fourstar general Barry Mccaffrey, and Atlantic Staff writer graham wood with that new reporting on the disturbing hamas hostage handbook. General mccaffrey, talk to us about the complexity of this Ground Incursion in the context of what President Biden we now know has been urging publicly and privately to the israelis. Go in and go out or do pauses, getting aid in, be cognizant of how the world is reacting to the desperation in gaza. Is that militarily possible to try to limit casualties . Well, i think the israelis will make every effort to minimize casualties to the civilian population. However, you know, if we see an Air Ground Attack into an urban area, a three dimensional battle, if theres a half million civilians in the region, if there are a couple of hundred or more hostages being held underground in all probability, this is going to be a bloody message. I personally do not think the israelis have an option but to enter on the ground, try and destroy hamass political and military leadership, and then attempt to use rewards and intelligence to locate and possibly rescue some of these hostages, but andrea, in every case, you got to go back to 7 october, hundreds and hundreds of Israeli Citizens brutally murdered, tortured, hauled away as captives, thats what were talking about here, and thats what the idea is. Unfortunately this is a reserve army thats been called up. Its absence from the work force, a huge economic burden on israel, and its got one of the most complex possible Military Operations facing it. We got to hope that perhaps a miracle occurs, the hostages are released. The Ground Campaign isnt required, but probably on the imminent edge of a ground attack. And graham wood, tell us more about this hamas Hostage Taking Manual that you btained from israeli officials, Israeli Soldiers found it reportedly. We have not been able to independently confirm it here the, telling them to kill the difficult, quote, unquote hostages first. Ive seen it both because the Israel Defense forces gave me a copy of it, also because i was able to find other copies of it including parts that the idf did not want. But this manual is exactly what it sounds like. It is ascribing exactly how one should deal with captives, what one should do with hostages. And it should be said that what theyre describing, first of all, it is brutal. It does call for straightforward violations of the laws, it calls for the torture of captives, anything to force compliance and killing, anybody whos going to cause trouble is has a target on the back of his head. What is also interesting about this is it doesnt appear that the soldiers of hamas who had this manual thought they were going to be able to take them into gaza. They thought that they were going to have them in israeli territory and have these standoffs, possibly many standoffs in the places where they found them, so hamas was actually, i think, probably as surprised as anyone that they didnt encounter the resistance, they were able to take so many hostages into gaza and more difficult to reach places such as tunnels underground gaza city. And joining us now as well is New York Times staff writer, Ronen Bergman, comment on what graham wood has been reporting. What is the Israeli Government going to do with the information from these manuals . How is that going to change, if at all the way they progress in the war . Can Ronen Bergman hear me . Yes, i can hear you. Yeah, i was just asking about what was reported in the atlantic by graham wood who was just commenting on what has been described as the Hostage Manual that was found by the idf on these Hamas Fighters On October 7th or afterwards, and their messaging about killing the difficult ones socalled, and about being surprised that they could bring them back into gaza, that their original plan was to keep them in sort of a Standoff Hostage Situation within israel proper. So a few different orders, many of them already in our possession, that the New York Times has reviewed, that we find likely to be authentic. They have a very clear understanding and detailed intelligence on the enemy so the israelis, both of civilian village, the resistance they might encounter. Some of them are dealing with hostages. Some of them are saying if you are under fire, then try to kidnap as many and try to be with the hostages, create the Hostage Situation where you are, this village or the other. In other cases, theyre being told to take those hostages with them to gaza, and they follow those orders with much success than they thought they would have, and i think that some of the hostages, hamas is now claiming that they did not order to kidnap women and children, this is yet to be seen. This is not in any way reflected in those orders, but what is reflected, that the atrocities that we saw are at least and im sure that we will learn more as we see more of the footage, the atrocities that we see are part of centralized planned organization, not just to kill soldiers, not just to kill civilians, not just to butcher everybody or kidnap the others, but also to dehumane photograph this video, send it over to hamas, headquarters, send them over social media. Israel just maybe two, two and a half hours after the attack started, we already had the social media with those horrific videos that i think horrified everybody if the beginning. I couldnt even believe that they are real. So this fabrication from hamas, i couldnt believe that this can happen in israel in such a magnitude. Let me ask you quickly because were almost out of time, ronen. What do you think the reaction is in israel . Will it chain to the biden speech and the Biden Meeting where he was urging caution, urging dont make the mistakes that we made after 9 11, can you go in, come out, take pauses, keep humanitarian aid going, All Of The Above . Will that influence what netanyahu does . I think that the israeli public saw by the leadership that it is desire to have from the current leadership and does not get receive from President Biden the hug that nobody gave it from the current leadership. On the other hand, the Israeli Public Service the Israeli Leadershi the leadership and much of the public see an end game here only with a Ground Invasion. It will end with the settlement of the hamas regime and military capabilities, and i think that the israeli public very much unite, and i spoke with many of the reservists along the border where i spent much of the day, and they all see the same. Going in, otherwise, if not taking the hamas regime, then israeli enemies will see this as a sign of weakness. The next thing well see another enemy doing the same. Were going to have to leave it there, Ronen Bergman, thank you, Barry Mccaffrey and graham wood, and that does it for us. Chris jansing reports starts right now