Mmm the more you know. How important is it that so many people who were speaking so strongly to the grand jury and presumably will to a jury, are republicans . I think it matters quite a bit, chris. I think in the world of politics and media it may matter because it suggests that it isnt just the Democratic Party that is out to get donald trump, but i think in court it also matters. Their Defense Attorneys will always be looking for an example to crossexamine witnesses. If they say you are a member of a different party, that can be used to undermine credibility in the eyes of the jury. When they are aligned with them in the same political party, this really takes away the opportunity to suggest that they are just making this up. So i think it bolsters their credibility in the eyes of the jury. Speaking of the eyes of the jury, lets go to what you witnessed today, the comings and goings of the courthouse. Clearly fani willis said we did this by the book and we are going to prosecute this and pretty fast, too. Tell us what it is like there today and your observations. It is startling that it came to a conclusion so fast. We anticipated testimony from witnesses testifying to the grand jury. You can imagine our surprise when witnesses who said they would testify tomorrow, that they were called in and said gosh, she is running at a quicker timeline than we anticipated. I think it speaks to the quality of the evidence that there were 19 defendants that were complicit in a variety of crimes that were committed not only in the state of georgia, but notably in other locations. There are also more nuanced things that came out from her press conference. The idea that there are Arrest Warrants that have been issued for all these defendants and that they have the opportunity to voluntarily turn themselves in and surrender themselves no later than august 25th. If you take a moment, i know that we have really used that word unprecedented a lot, but consider the fact that there is now an Arrest Warrant for former President Donald Trump and that he has maybe 10 days to be able to voluntarily surrender himself or frankly he will get picked up and put in jail. For these defendants, what will happen with their legal teams assuming they have any . Some of the worst words they are reading are unindicted co conspirator. The concern is who is flipped and what do they know and when did they know it . I think for these defendants they have to be thinking about that. The number of people named in this indictment, individual one and two, these appear to be people who flipped and were involved in this activity. For these 19 defendants i mentioned that in the next two weeks they will be reaching out to the prosecution to say my client would like to turn himself in, when can we arrange for an arraignment . I think fani willis was very shrewd in setting that out there. Often times they would like to call their lawyers and say the client is been arrested. When can you come in for an arraignment . What we have seen with donald trump and his codefendants are delay, delay, delay. By saying there is an Arrest Warrant and you will be arrested on august 25th unless you come in before then, fani willis has seen what has happened and has very shrewdly set a very firm and serious deadline for these defendants to turn themselves in. We were talking earlier about the various pieces of evidence and some have become fairly familiar to our viewers and people around the country, but i think it is worth reminding people of some of the statements and testimony that we saw from the January 6th Committee came from them, and i want to play a little example of that. There is nowhere i feel safe. Nowhere. Do you know how it feels to have the United States president target you . The president of the United States is supposed to represent every american. Not to target one. But he targeted me, sadie ruby, a Small Business owner, a mother and a proud american citizen who stood up to help Fulton County run an election the middle of the pandemic. These included threats . Yes. A lot of threats, wishing death upon me, telling me that i will be in jail with my mother and saying things like be glad it is 2020 and not 1920. Were a lot of these threats and vile comments racist in nature . A lot of them were racist, a lot of them were just hateful. Yes sir. Katie, this happened in this community to members of this community, and i wonder if you can describe what the mood has been there. Obviously there has been tension. We know there have been concerns about whether or not there might be problems or threats against the District Attorney and other members and her office. Do you get a sense that in atlanta they are happy this is just moving forward now . I think is a general idea there is a measure of closure that is being provided not only to the country at large. These particular codefendants were involved in the threats and intimidation to ms. Freeman and ms. Shea. I think what you saw was fani willis put pen to paper and made sure that the world knew resoundingly clear through the language of this indictment that there is no one Above The Law, and that you could be somebody like the storied former new york mayor Rudy Giuliani, a former president of the United States, but you could also be somebody like Stephen Cliff guardedly, who was involved in these intimidation tactics, and that you will be held criminally responsible for what you have done. The idea that there will be an aggressive pursuit of justice is ultimately the message that is going to be sent to everyone. No one is Above The Law and if you commit a crime here it hurts your jurisdiction and fani willis will come after you. If a crime was committed against you, no one may have ever heard of you before, but if a crime is committed against you she has made the statement very clearly that we are going to come after you. Katie phang, Barbara Mcquaid, you are going to stay with us. We will be right back on that because we want to talk about four indictments hanging over donald trump. The latest was of course these 18 codefendants indictments. What happens next as Candidate Trump is yet again named Defendant Trump . Did jack smith learn anything from this new georgia indictment . We talk about that and more, next. Stay with us. I need it cool at night. You trying to ice me out of the bed . Baby, only on game nights. You know you are retired right . Am i . Ya save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, 36 month financing on select smart beds. Shop now only at sleep number. There is a better way to manage diabetes. 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Dont wait, this one short call could change your life. bright music you are the fourth jurisdiction now to indict donald trump. You believe you need to be the fourth one to try him, or do you want to be the first to try him . I dont have any desire to be first or last. I want to try him and be respectful of our sovereign states. We want to move this case along so we will be asking for a proposed order that includes a trial date in the next six months. In addition to announcing that c is seeking a trial in the next six months, Fulton County District Attorney fani willis announced that she is giving donald trump and 18 other defendants until noon next friday, august 25th to quote, voluntarily surrender. One person who will be reading this indictment and watching the timeline is Special Counsel jack smith after a grand jury indicted trump for election interference. Katie phang and Barbara Mcquaid are back with us. I thought it was interesting when she said she wanted to get this moving, barbara, six months potentially. I wonder how realistic that is and how you see the landscape next spring. I mean between jack smith, as you said, these are four indictments, two from smith and then the hush money case and other legal issues that would require him to be in court, what is early next year into spring and summer looking like, barbara, and how do we get there . For fani willis i think she wants to send the message that she is full speed ahead and im sure she would like to try this case in the next six months, but the judges have to coordinate all these different files among themselves. Typically the first to get filed has priority of going first, and that is the alvin bragg indictment out of new york scheduled for march. That seems realistic and that seems likely to go. We have the maralago case scheduled for may and we could see some movement there with the addition of the third defendant recently. Jack smith is asking for a january trial which seems maybe a little aggressive, but if so that leaves room perhaps for fani willis to try this case sometime next summer. It will certainly be a bit of a challenge to find enough weeks in the year to have this, and in addition donald trump is of course running for president and he will no doubt use that as an effort to delay the trial, but i think what he is likely to hear is that every defendant who comes to court has other things going on in their lives that make it inconvenient for them to be there, and you dont get special dispensation just because you are running for president. If that were the case everybody could just declare their candidacy for the presidency in order to put off their trials. Could you even hazard a guess how long this might take . I guess at this point we dont even know how many people will still be defendants when it goes to trial. Yeah, and i think that is a big factor. If 19 of them have to go to trial, they will probably break them up into batches and do a number of different trials. You can put donald trump in the first trial batch and try him first and let the others go in other batches, but my guess is there will be a number of guilty pleas, so that number will pare down just a little bit. But no doubt it will take a while to present all this evidence. You see all of those that are listed in the indictment, i imagine those will come in through Witness Testimony or documents or recordings, and it takes a fair amount of time just to play all that out in court. I know that when laypeople come in and watch a trial they are often struck by how tedious it all seems, because you have to lay a Proper Foundation for each exhibit and describe the chain of custody for that kind of thing. So it can take a long time. I imagine a trial like this taking may be a couple of months. They never show that on Law And Order so katie, lets go back to rico if we can. Fani willis was asked tonight about what that actually means and if anyone was convicted. Here is what she had to say. Can you clarify, in georgia, the mandatory minimum when it comes to r. I. C. O. Charges, whether it is by probation or how that might play out . The r. I. C. O. Charges have time that you have to serve, so it is not a probate sentence. Tell us what more you know about that, katie. The obvious fact about that as you have the former president of the United States, who is 77 years old, and Rudy Giuliani is 79. I mean chris, the total amount of exposure in terms of incarceration that the former president of the United States is looking at is literally you going to jail and you go out in a body bag. I am not trying to be flippant about it, but it is the reality with somebody at that age. Then you factor in the myriad cases that you just listed with barb, and those cases also have exceptional exposure themselves in terms of incarceration in federal prisons. So it is really not very promising for the former president of the United States to look at these criminal cases. I will note that there is a judge that is new to the bench, chris, that is hearing this case. Sometimes judges factor in sentencing and judges factor in discretionary sentencing sometimes. This judge just got appointed by Governor Brian Kemp and just started in january of this year. He was a lawyer for nine years. He is a former federal prosecutor and assistant d. A. Here in atlanta, so you can imagine if you have only been on the bench for seven months, chris, and now you have the biggest case of your judicial career right now after only seven months. So i think that factors into not only the timing and scheduling that is going to happen, but may ultimately factor into sentencing in terms of whether or not there is any discretion for the judge to sentence trump and others to jail time that may not be significant, but i suspect they will be. Yes, certainly hard to imagine there is a bigger case than this for anybody sitting on the bench right now. Katie phang, Barbara Mcquaid, you guys are great to stay up with me thank you so much. Coming up, will the latest indictment of donald trump make republicans reconsider their loyalties to the fourtime criminal defendant . We will discuss that after this break. Eak. And make decisions in this office based on the fact and the law. The laws completely nonpartisan. That is how decisions are made in every case. To date this office has indicted over 12,000 cases. This is the 11th r. I. C. O. Indictment. We followed the same process. We look at the facts, we look at the law and we bring charges. That is Fulton County d. A. Fani willis denying that the investigation is in any way partisan. Donald trump is reportedly trying to fund raise off his latest indictment and his lawyers have predictably put out a statement trying to paint the indictment as a political act against a republican president ial candidate. But many of the key witnesses, much like in the jack smith federal indictment, are in fact republicans. Here is Republican Grand Jury witness jeff duncan today after he testified to the grand jury in Fulton County after they voted to indict donald trump. As republicans we need to take our medicine and realize that the election was not rigged and donald trump was the worst candidate in the history of the party, even worse than Herschel Walker. If we want to win the election in 2024 has to be somebody other than donald trump. So go focus on the things that matter. As long as we make this about the Three Ring Circus called donald trump we will lose every time. You dont have to go further than georgia to see that play out. Joining me now is von hilliard and msnbc political analyst and writer for the bulwark , tim miller. Have they given up on the idea that anything that happens in these legal cases is going to disabuse the base of the notion that donald trump is being treated unfairly here . Well, chris, hope springs eternal, but there is no evidence of this. What jeff duncan said is exactly right. Credit to him for standing up and testifying, but as far as political analysis is concerned, there is a reason he is a former Lieutenant Governor of georgia. He was a rising star in the party, he did the right thing and he did not try to primary Herschel Walker for that senate seat because most republicans, not all, but most are still with donald trump. They are defending him on these indictments. They believe his lies about the election and there is not really a place in the party for people like jeff duncan, unfortunately. There is a great article that peter baker wrote in the new york times. I think we are somewhere up above 90 counts total. Here is part of what he writes. It is, quote, the accumulated indictments are kind of white nose for voters. He conducts weekly focus groups with voters. He says they cannot tell the difference between georgia and jack smith because it all blows together in one long new cycle of trump in trouble. Is there a way for that noise, that confusion, tim, to be pushed aside . Is there something that republicans, who feel that it is time to move on, can do or say, and if so, what is it . Yeah, there is a debate in 11 days. I think his opponents will have a chance to do this. There is no evidence any of them are willing to besides chris christie, but look. I think to just paint all these Republican Voters with a broad brush, this is what sarah is doing, but i think there is some of this going on, saying these people are too stupid to understand what is going on with these indictments or they dont want to know the difference. That is true of a third of the party, that they dont want to know the difference, but there are about two thirds of the party that is at least open to hearing a credible maga voice. If ron desantis was making the case and saying hey, maybe the alvin bragg indictment, i dont believe this, but if they are saying that that was overkill, look at what fani willis has this is not something you can do in an democracy. You cannot pressure an election official to steal an election you cannot go into Voting Machines to engineer a conspiracy to overthrow democracy. If they continue to make that argument as many of them did in 2021, Republican Voters can understand the difference. But instead all of his opponents are echoing Donald Trumps Talking Points and helping him to make this out to be white noise. So we read Rudy Giulianis statement and we saw that there is fundraising going out from his campaign, but i find it hard to believe, having covered and known trump for a long time as you have that he is remaining silent. Have we heard from the former president . We have heard from the former president in the form of social media post here at 1 36, where he writes, quote, the witchhunt continues, 19 people indicated tonight, including the from the president of the United States, me. That was the beginning part of his statement here. You just fill In The Name Of the District Attorney or the prosecutor and the locality in which the charges are being presented out of, and essentially you can repeat the statements that have come from Donald Trumps social media accounts over the last seven months. You know, chris, i think to 10s point here, in terms of the opening that potentially his republican primary rivals could see opening, i thought that the timeline was interesting, laid out from the District Attorney, of when these defendants, including donald trump, must surrender here in Fulton County. It is august 25th. He can choose to surrender before that, though. What day is the debate . August 23rd. So again, this has been the frustration of these other campaigns, is that donald trump sucks up so much oxygen. I dont want to predict what the Trump Campaign is going to do, but you can well expect them to play off the debate and the timing of it in terms of when they decide to come down to georgia, chris. Von hilliard and tim miller sleep is overrated thank you so much for staying up with us. I am chris hansen and msnbc headquarters. Thank you so much for being with us. Msnbcs continuing coverage of the fourth indictment of donald trump will continue right after this. 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We have just hit midnight here on the east coast, we are just coming up on midnight. In eight seconds it is about to be tuesday. Tuesday is the day we originally thought we would be here covering this indictment in Fulton County, georgia. Without the Grand Jury Process would stretch into tuesday and we would have an indictment tuesday afternoon and evening, but that is not what happened. Fani willis and the d. A. Decided to push through and hear all the witnesses they wanted to hear from and they decided to vote on the indictments tonight. That is why we are here this hour with an indictment in hand. It is 90 pages. Donald trump and others including his top allies and lawyers and georgia officials have been charged in a 41count criminal indictment. All 19 defendants are charged under the r. I. C. O. Statute with furthering a criminal conspiracy, the goal of which was to overturn president ial Election Results in georgia in 2022 install donald trump for another term as president. We heard this evening from fani willis. Just a few minutes ago she gave a statement summing up the charges and took questions where she said she wants to hold the trial in six months. As mentioned, she wants to try all 19 defendants together. Barb mcquaid joins us again. Barb, as we have been doing this live on television it is always dangerous, but i feel like i am finally getting a little bit of closure in this indictment on some of the human drama we have seen laid out, particularly regarding the wor were and i mean this he wor specifically, who were terrorized, including having people storm into her home, people accost her neighbors. They had to go into hiding at one point before threatening to make a citizens arrest of her all after President Trump and his allies had demonized these two women, portrayed them as having headed up some sort of effect to defraud the electorate, and weve got multiple charges now, multiple federal criminal charges against people who allegedly tried to intimidate ruby freeman, who went to her home, talked to her neighbors, banged on her, who told her