Transcripts For MSNBCW All 20240704

Already said on tuesday, for example, im going to say whatever i want. Defended trump gets ground rules from the judge. He starts at a level of miss trusts. She treated trump like a truant child. The dramatic day in Federal Court and the new protective order to stop indicted ex president from intimidating witnesses and trying his case in the media. There are hundreds of recordings with witnesses that we talked to outside the grand jury. I felt like you could hear a pin drop in the courtroom. Then the conservative case that donald trump could be disqualified from office. Why Merrick Garlands announcement of a Special Counsels infuriating biden attackers. And hes right. There is no Ongoing Investigation of hunter biden. And senator obrien shots on the expanding rescue and recovery going on in hawaii. This is going to take years to recover. When all in starts, right now. Grieving from you in new york, uncut chris hayes. Donald trumps defense team has their first hearing but the judge whos going to oversee what many have called, i think positive plausibly, the most important criminal criminal case in american history. Ive got to say, based on todays hearing, judge Tanya Chutkan his showed herself to be really impressive, in many ways exactly what you would you would want out of a judge in this position. The eastbound Special Counsel jack smiths prosecutors sought a protective order covering any evidence brought forth during the discovery process. That the evidence they hand over to don trumps attorneys. Essentially what they want to do is make sure that trump cannot then take some of that material and publicly weaponize the information if he learns about potential witnesses as a means and intimidating them or otherwise tampering with the prosecutions case. Judge chutkan did ultimately grant protective order covering some but crucially not all of the information the ex president will see during discovery. It was a victories project smiths team because they didnt get everything they were asking. Something of a prebattle to trumps lawyers arguments, judge chutkan announced at the start of the hearing, quote, mr. Trump like every american has the First Amendment rights to free speech but that rain is not absolute. Later elaborating to the ex president s attorney, quote, if that means that he cant say exactly what he wants to say about people who may be witnesses in this case, that how its going to have to be. And, quote, he is a criminal defendant. He is going to have restrictions, like every single other defendant. The trump team tried to argue those limitations might hamper his Political Campaign, the judge may clear the Political Considerations were fully outside the scope of her responsibility. Quote, the effects of my order on a Political Campaign are not before me and will not influence my decision here. This is a criminal trial. I cannot and i will not factor into my decisions the effect its going to have on a Political Campaign for either side. At the same time judge chutkan denied part of the governments request for a protective order covering all Discovery Material in this case, calling it overly broad. Kyle, cheney in a political report she said, quote, i dont want this order to be overly inclusive. I dont want to just issue a blanket pact of order over information that is not sensitive. The Hearing Ending ended with judge chutkan issuing a warning that any public statements that night create what she called a Carnival Atmosphere around the court or intimidate witnesses or prejudice potential jurors will only result in the case going to trial even faster. That was largely interpreted correctly as a shot at team trump who want to delay this case as long as possible. Even if Special Counsel jack smith believes it is in the Public Interest to do the exact off opposite. Here is, talking from the day he learned the indictment. In this case, my office will seek a speedy trial so the evidence could be tested in the court and judged by a jury of citizens. In the meantime, i must emphasize that the indictment is only an allegation that the defendant must be presumed innocent until Proven Guilty Beyond A Reasonable Doubt in a court of law. When you look at how the proposed calendar of the trial is going to unfold, it is clear to me, and i think should be clear to everyone, we should get a consensus on this, the earlier this whole ideal ordeal unfold the better it is for everyone involved, both the defendant and the public, both of whom have interests here. So right now prosecutors have asked for the trial to start in january 2nd. Thats less than two weeks before the iowa caucus. I would hope that reasonable people can agree, not folks inside the maga cult, but everyone else, that donald trump should be tried before the general election in november. The point of elections, including Primary Elections, is to judge a Candidates Fitness for office. The public has a right to know whether donald trump, the current public in front runner, is guilty or innocent before they go to the polls to vote for a guy who was accused of these extremely serious grave crimes. And if trump is truly innocent, as he claims, he should want to be vindicated as soon as possible, take this shadow away, this thing looming over him. So if you take that into account, if he should be tried before the election, well then, lets look at the calendar. What time frame would be fairest . Its going to be either the beginning of the primary process, in january, as jack smith has proposed, which would give most republican primary voters across the country the chance to weigh a potential Felony Conviction or acquittal before they go to the polls. Or, if you wait later, its going to be smack dab in the middle of Primary Election season, after its too late for many republicans to consider a verdict at all because they already cast their votes. Think about it this way, if youre the Republican National committee, do you want this verdict sooner rather than later . Lets just say, for the sake of argument, donald trump will be found guilty at this trial. Would the rnc rather have that happen while there is still time for voters to choose someone else . Or at the end of the primary process when its all wrapped up . Oh, hes guilty. Is that what you want . Does mcdaniel want to deal with a Republican Convention getting overshadowed by their nominee getting a federal conviction in the middle of it . If you keep pushing, it lets it doesnt happen in the early part of the, air doesnt happen in the spring, not in the summ,woit in the fall . After he has secured the nomination or the general election . Should it happen in september . The weeks leading up to the general election of november, 2024 . Assuming donald trump does not succeed and a Hail Mary Pass to get the Supreme Court to somehow press pause on all this until after the election, its just obviously the best interest of the American Voter and american democracy to have this trial play out as soon as possible. 30 minute with someone who is inside that courtroom today, lisa rubin, nbc legal analyst. Lisa i was following your notes and it seem pretty fascinating. What was it like inside the courtroom today . It was fascinating, and a stunning daboll debut. As you noted for Tanya Chutkan, who was an unknown player to most of us following this drama. She was alternately funny at one point, trumps lawyer john laura was said to who her, your honor, you hit the nail on the head and she said i think that the last time youre gonna say that. She was firm into things and particular. She was from that the First Amendment rights donald trump demands have to yield to the Field Administration of justice and said political Act Calculations are not entering her decisionmaking in either direction. I was really impressed by how clever judge chutkan was because we all know that donald trump is like the honey badger of his own political life. He doesnt give a flying leap about some of the things that might incentivize other peoples behavior, like sanctions or even a contempt ruling. At the end, when she essentially said, council and your client, you are responsible for deescalating or rhetoric, because if you continue on this path i will have no choice but to try this case sooner. That is both responsible in in the administration of justice, but she might also have found the one stick we couldnt motivate a horse named trump. Because the one thing that you know he doesnt want is this trial will happen in an expeditious timeline. I had the axiom thought when i saw. That was the one thing they care about . It was another moment that underlies, we all know the score here. But judge does, jacksons office dies, everyone thought, they dont want this trial to happen for the election. Hes trying to get elected so he can get rid of this case. Correct. And you know, his lawyers know that as well because notwithstanding the fact that on social media this week trump said repeatedly, im not going to obey, and not gonna comply. John laurel was full of assurances to judge chutkan that his client would not only complying with the conditions of his release, but that he would comply with any protective order, as well. So now youve got a trump lawyer on the record Making Representations face to face with the judge, saying my climate client is going to obey and if he doesnt, there will be some consequences, not only for donald trump but potentially for his lawyers as well. Lisa, your coverage, essentials office, thank you so much for making time. Harry litman served as Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the department justice. Hes now a Legal Affairs columnist for the los angeles times. Danya perry served as jeopardy cheap of the Criminal Division for the Southern District of new york. Both join me now. Let me get your impressions of people that are far more practiced at this town have had a lot of experience in trial courts and before judges. Harry, what did you think of today . My best feeling, chris, is that the government is pretty happy. The one issue that seemed to be dividing them, whether Sensitive Information would be part of the protective order, team trump actually got its way. But Everything Else, i think, when the governments, way starting with the issue in the civil protective order, which they needed to move this process forward. Second, very importantly, the definition of Sensitive Information and how she cloaks all witnesses, anything about witnesses, under that definition and relatedly the treatment of Sensitive Information, trump can be closed off, he cant take any pictures, he cant do any identifying information, and then to backup what lisa was saying, the overall tone and feel, body language, i mean i wasnt there but this sort of messaging of the hearing, the, i am the judge or the criminal defendant, that aspect of it, if and when you force me to, i will use the very strong weapons at my disposal. That came through pretty firmly as well. So all in all, i think they have the judge they want. Its a very interesting suggestion, by the way, she made at the end, that if they misbehave it could speed things up more. Well see how that would work in operation, but it was something of a Master Stroke to add one more level that she can sort of used to try to influence behavior. She wants to sort of sub divide between now and actual contempt sentence in jail, as much as she can. She doesnt want to go to that right away. Danya, The Big Question here, is obviously when you take a step back there has never been a trial like this in american history. Theres no precedent for it. It is both two things at once. It is a normal criminal trial, brought under the normal processes and procedures, as prescribed federal law in United States constitution, and also completely the guy who was president running for president again. I thought this was really interesting. She kept hitting this home. Quoting from the new york times, i want issue a general word of caution. I intend to ensure the orderly administration of justice in this case as i would in any other case, and even arguably ambiguous statements that the parties and their counsel could be considered an attempt to intimidate witnesses or prejudice potential jurors, to be the court to take action. I caution your client to take special care about public statements in this case. I will take whatever necessary measures necessary to protect the integrity of this proceeding. What do you think of that statement from judge chalked on today . She made very clear from the outset that she was going to make sure that the former president has the same rights as every american, right out of the gates but also the same obligations as every criminal defendant, that he is not extraordinary in that sense and that she is going to hold him to the same standards and put him through the same paces is any other defendant that appears in her courtroom. We see this in every courtroom across the country. Just today jan judge kaplan in the Southern District of new york remanded for conduct that is arguably less egregious than statements weve already seen from the former president. And she is admonishing him, but his lawyers, as lisa pointed out, to make sure that he toes the line and follows her rules in her courtroom. And ed lisa and harry both say, i agree, most of the time judges have a lot of tools in their kits to make sure that defendants obey the rules. All kinds of straight conditions of release and they also have the ultimate sanction, usually, which is really manned, a revocation of bail. As everyone his head, and i agree its very clever, she has, the only thing worse than detention for this defendant is the speedy trial, essentially. So i agree with all the comments, and i thought it was certainly a good day for the government. Well defense did not get, while there was not a full blanket protective order, thats pretty ordinary stuff and i almost think that the government put that in there so there could be a compromise verdict, as it were, but i think that was a good thing for the government. The freed who was remanded into custody today, the judge he was engaged in witness tampering, hes gonna transfer him house arrest to being in federal jail. And you know, to this point, theres this question of how do you contain donald trump . I think trumps perspective on this is like what are you gonna do . Throw me in jail . Try it. Theyre going to test every boundary and its going to be a constant set of tests for this judge, no question. I think thats right. I think everybody assumes that whatever she says first, he wont obey. Maybe second. Maybe third. So she has to credibly be able to advance down that path, but eventually she will have only that second to last step of saying if you do this again im going to put you in jail. And when she has made that announcement, and if he does it again, she will have to follow through. Right. Even as you suggest, once that kind of martyrdom, its really quite a deprivation for him. You can imagine. One more thing, by the way. All the pressure on the lawyers. Theres gonna be a lot of heroes that he doesnt attend and she could start out saying mr. Laurel, you assured me, et cetera, you tell me now that you will get this straight, and that puts an extra level. Thats what she needs is more levels and steps between her and the ultimate weapon. All right, harry litman, danya perry, thank you both. Appreciate it. Coming up, the conservative case for disqualifying donald trump from another bid at the white house. But first, the Attorney General just appointed another Special Counsel to look into president bidens son. How we got to this point, what it means going forward, next. Eans going forward, next huh, huh, so did their dog roger. Gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest Stuff Smelling fresh. Rsv is in for a surprise. Meet arexvy. the first fdaapproved rsv vaccine. Arexvy is used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. Arexvy is proven to be over 82 effective in preventing lower Respiratory Disease from rsv and over 94 effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Rsv can be serious. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist about arexvy today. Rsv . Make it arexvy. Age is just a number, and mines unlisted. Try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for Muscle Health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. Boost® high protein. Now available in cinnabon® bakeryinspired flavor. Learn more at boost. Com tv when migraine strikes, youre faced with a choice. Ride it out with the tradeoffs of treating . Or push through the pain and symptoms . With ubrelvy, theres another option. One dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain. Treat it anytime, anywhere without worrying where you are or if its too late. Do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. Allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. Most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. Migraine pain relief starts with u. Ask about ubrelvy. Learn how abbvie could help you save. Ladies. Welcome to my digestive system. When your gut and vaginal bacteria are off balance. You may feel it. But just one align womens Probiotic Daily helps soothe digestive upsets. And support vaginal health. aidyl hi, im aidyl, and i lost 90 pounds on golo. Helps soothe digestive upsets. I struggled with weight loss and weight gain my entire life. With all the yoyo dieting i did in the past, i would lose 20, 30, 50 pounds just to gain them over and over again. In one year, ive lost five sizes, and im on my way to lose another three. With golo, i can do it. announcer change your life at golo. Com. Thats golo. Com. The first of us that on the ground there. Ound there hunter biden, the sole surviving son of president joe biden, has been under Federal Criminal Investigation for nearly five years. United states attorney from delaware, david weiss, began the probe in 2019 when hunter was still in the throes of addiction and his father was out of office. After joe biden won the presidency, the president went out of his way to maintain the integrity of that long Running Investigation into his own son. He replaced nearly every u. S. Attorney appointed by his predecessor, as is the norm, but he left david weiss in place so that weiss could complete his work. Finally in june weiss announced he was bringing charges against his son hunter biden for Misdemeanor Tax Offenses and a felony firearm charge. That one is rarely charged, you should know. The underlying evidence is not really doubt. Hunter biden has been open about the fact that he has made lots of mistakes while struggling with addiction. And he agreed to a plea deal under which hunter biden would plead guilty to the tax offense and avoid the gun charge. Now here is where things get interesting. The agreement fell apart when there was a hearing before the federal judge was going to approve it. The judge questioned its terms at that hearing last month. The two sides were told to go and work out another deal. Theyre not able to come to a new agreement for the plea. So that means that now the case against hunter biden is probably gonna go to trial, something that david weiss, the u. S. Attorney for delaware, could not effectively do under his powers as u. S. Attorney because he probably would have to try the case somewhere else. So today Attorney General Merrick Garland elevated david weiss. Mr. Weiss advised me that in his judgment, his investigation had reached a stage and which he should continue his work as a Special Counsel. About considering his request as well as the extraordinary circumstances relating to this matter, i have concluded that it is in the Public Interest to appoint him as Special Counsel. So just to be clear here, democratic Attorney General appointed a trump appointee, david weiss was appointed by donald trump, who started investigating hunter biden years ago, to be a Special Counsel, giving him special protections and preserving them. And you would think the republicans will be thrilled by this news. But no, instead the chair of the oversight committee, basically the biden restaurateur chief, is calling it a coverup. Congressman Gerry Connolly is a democrat of virginia, as senior members of that oversight committee, and he joins me now. Before i get to that reaction, i guess, congresswoman, is someone who serves on the oversight committee, what is your response to todays announcement by Merrick Garland . My reaction is that it is Merrick Garland being Merrick Garland. Hes crossing all the ts and dotting all the is and he is ensuring fairness and transparency in the process. Im not particularly worried about it, but i do think that it puts republicans in a bind. Theyre the ones that called for Special Counsel. Soul he gave in the Special Counsel. Theyre the ones who accused the Department Of Justice of being a dark state, deep state, entity out to get trump, but here that same entity is back holding the president s son, the democratic president s son, to account. Their heads must be spinning tonight with their own ill logic. Well, yeah. They basically are demanding a Special Counsel several months ago. This has been a thing. Why isnt it Special Counsel . Merrick garland appoint Special Counsel. The guy who has the case already, which of course would make the most sense, at his request, david weiss apparently asked for this. Heres kevin mccarthy, who says this action by the doj can be used to obstruct congressional investigations or a whitewash the biden family corruption. They always use their term so they can smear the president. If ways how can we trust him as a Special Counsel . House republicans will continue to pursue the facts for the american people. Part of the lesson here is there is nothing they can satisfy them. I guess it doesnt matter. Well, it ought to matter. We should pylon here the lack of republican credibility, weiss is a Republican Trump appointed u. S. Attorney in delaware. He reported to our public and trump appointed u. S. Attorney general, barr. I dont know how much more republican you can get done that. And theyre still not satisfied, and theyre questioning the integrity of that process. I think they are really spinning out of the universe on this one. I want to make the argument from the other side which is that all of this is important Event Bending over backwards that itself is a kind of, deprivation of justice and heres how the case goes. If biden where hunter smith he wouldnt have been investigated. He certainly, if what he did was Misdemeanor Tax Evasion and felony possession gun charge, which is, first of all, according to the scotus jurisprudence, probably constitutionally dubious, he would not be the subject of a three or fouryear investigation. This entire thing is essentially the opposite of him getting special privilege. He is basically being singled out because hes the president s son. What do you say to that . I think thats absolutely accurate. A lot of people make assumptions about people in public life getting a special deal, wink wink. Often its the opposite, that theyre going to get no cornice cut at all. Theyre going to have the book thrown at them because nobody wants to be perceived as showing favoritism in the Justice System or in the pull police unfolding act. So youre right, i think Hunter Burden is being subjected here to a level of not only scrutiny but accountability that most beer more shovels would not. Final question for you. This has been years of this now, beginning with parnas Rudy Giulianis trips to ukraine to try to dig Up Dirt On Hunter Biden and his involvement with dietrich cranium gas company, burisma, multiple years of a federal criminal criminal investigation, multiple investigations by multiple congressional committees since he took over congress. Is there anything here where you have had a moment to be like, oh, thats bad. Joe biden did something bad here. Heres something that really makes me concerned or worried about propriety, corruption, et cetera . I have been on the two committees of the three that looked at impeachment. I serve on the Weaponization Select Committee and they serve on the oversight and accountability committee. I have not seen the shred of evidence that suggests or even hints or provides a width of anything untoward by the president of the United States, joe biden. I see a loving father who is sugary and at the level his son descended to in terms of personal dysfunctionality and Substance Abuse and bad behavior, but certainly nothing that would suggest the president himself was engaged in anything other than a protective father wanting to see his son get well. I can tell you, i have been at depositions, ive read memos, im not a classified documents, i have not seen anything. Congressman Gerry Connolly, thank you so much for joining us tonight. My pleasure. Thank you, chris. Still ahead, man of the people mike pence runs into some Trump Supporters in iowa, but also get an unusual vote of support. A nice moment. Next. Ce moment. Next my name is wendy, im 51 years old, and im a hospital administrator. When i talk to patients you can just see from here up when youre wearing a mask. And i have noticed those lines beginning to really become not so much moderate but more severe. Im still wendy and i got botox® cosmetic. And im really happy with the results because theyre very subtle, and i feel like i look like myself, but just less lines. Botox® cosmetic is fda approved, to temporarily make frown lines, crows feet and forehead lines look better. The effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or Muscle Weakness maybe a sign of a life threatening condition. Do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. Side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, Eyelid Drooping and eyelid swelling. Tell your doctor about your medical history. Muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins. As these may increase the risk of serious side effects. See for yourself at botoxcosmetic. Com want luxury hair repair that doesnt cost 50 . Pantenes provitamin formula repairs hair. As well as the leading luxury bonding treatment. For softness and resilience, without the price tag. If you know. You know its pantene. The thought of getting screened for colon cancer made me queasy. But now ive found a way thats right for me. Feels more easy. My doc and i agreed. I pick the time. Todays a good day. I screened with cologuard and did it my way cologuard is a oneofa kind way to screen for colon cancer thats effective and noninvasive. Its for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. False positive and negative results may occur. Ask your provider for cologuard. I did it my way ambience of room, crickets, Scrolling Content on phone theyre off from school, but not really home. Images and videos. Social media, finetuned to suck them in. And steal them away. Alone you cant stop it. Together we will. We have a plan. Join us. one of the great things about the democratic enterprise of campaigning for office, we choose our representatives and those who want to vote have to ask is for it. Candidates have to go out in the world, interact with people, where they cant control what happens on the trail. Particularly true for former Vice President mike pence. Hes got a weird task before him. A very strange relationship. So the voters hes trying to win because they believe he sold out their beloved donald trump. That has resulted in situations where pants has faced questions from people who may not have been at the capitol on january six Chanting Jaime Hang mike pence, but do Hold Contempt for him. Like this voter who confronted him in sioux city iowa, last month. Your vote, if it wasnt for your vote we would not have joe biden the white house. Joe biden shouldnt be there. And all those wonderful things that you and trump were doing together would be continuing and this country would be on the right path. If you ever second guess yourself, there was a constitutional right that you had to send those votes back to the states. Im sorry maam, thats not what the constitution says. No Vice President hear history of the United States has eggs exerted authority that you think to think i have. As President Trump was wrong, about my authority that day and he still wrong. I believe it with all my heart. He responded. That happens on the. Time happened again yesterday at the iowa state fair. My question is this, why did you commit treason on january 6th. Bo bo shut your mouth. Thats why i came. No, ill answer your question. Ill answer your question. Now, he did get boos from the crown crowd. The candidates is why do you commit treason is treason is a fair question. No Wonder Mike Pence currently ranks sixth in iowa, roughly 3 . Someone did have Something Else to say. Come on guys. Come on. Im glad they didnt hang you. Just over five months left until the iowa caucus. Not much, but its a start. With rapiddry technology. That absorbs two times faster. Hellooo clean and comfortable. Always. Fear no gush. Struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1 . Ask about vraylar. Because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms with vraylar. Some medicines only treat the lows or highs. Vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. Proven, fullspectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. And in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. Report fever, stiff muscles or confusion which may mean a lifethreatening reaction, or uncontrollable Muscle Movements which may be permanent. High blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain and high cholesterol may occur. Movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. Sleepiness and stomach issues are also common. Side effects may not appear for several weeks. Ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. Fly to paris. See the tower. Smaller than you expected. Wait in line. See the mona lisa. Smaller than you expected. Check in. See your room. Bigger than you expected. Join one key, where gold and platinum members get travel perks, like room upgrades. What do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Im currently out of the office. Focusing on a little bluesky thinking. Ill be taking meetings. With family and friends. And checking voicemail. As my activities permit. Ill connect with you. After reconnecting with me. Get 1. 9 apr for 36 months plus 1,500 Purchase Allowance on a 2024 xt5 and xt6 when you finance through cadillac financial. rsv can be a dangerous virus. [sneeze]. For those 60 and older. Its not just a cold. And if youre 60 or older. You may be at increased risk of hospitalization. [coughing]. From this highly. Contagious virus. Not all dangers come with warning labels. Talk to your pharmacist or doctor. About getting vaccinated against rsv today. Hi need new glasses . Tbuy one pair, get onet free at visionworks how can you see me squinting . I cant im just telling everyone . Hey buy one pair, get one free for back to school. Visionworks. See the difference. The post civil war republic, the framers of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were quite preoccupied with the fact that those who fomented bloody insurrection and rebellions address the country should be disqualified from future office. In fact, and they were so concerned with it they wrote it into the United States constitution, Section Three of the 14th Amendment. And no person shall hold any office who, having previously taken an oath to support the constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid to the enemies thereof. And now to conservative law professors, self professed originalists, have published a Law Review Article arguing that, quote, if the Public Record is accurate, the case is not even close. Donald trump is no longer eligible to be the office of the presidency or any other state or federal office covered by the constitution. One of the people whos been working on this issue, Section Three of the 14th Amendment, and noah bookbinder, president and ceo of Citizens For Responsibility And Ethics In Washington or crew. He joins me now. Noah, it is great to have you. First, just tell us what you were able to do. Because you brought a suit under this, part of the 14th Amendment, and that was successful. I think the first time its happened in many, many years. Tell us about that suit. Thats right. So we represented the residents of new mexico who brought a lawsuit to removed from office and disqualify from Future Office A Guy Named Griffin who was a County Commissioner in new mexico. He was the founder of a group called cowboys for trump. And he was someone who was on the steps to the capitol on january 6th. He helped to recruit people to the capitol on that day, he encouraged violence and insurrection, normalized that violence even though it was not personally violent and we were able to convince a court that the january six was an insurrection for the purpose of the court 14th Amendment to find that. And to disqualify mr. Griffin from office as the first time in over 150 years that a court had disqualified someone under the 14th Amendment. Its incredibly significant in showing that this is a living piece of the constitution that applies as much now as it ever has. I mean, who was the how did the lawsuit work . How did you sue him . In which court . How did you bring it . In new mexico, there is a law. A lot of states have these laws. They basically say citizens can go to court if there is a person who is not qualified to serve in the office in which they are serving. And so, the case went to state court in new mexico, a judge heard evidence, heard witnesses. Considered the evidence, considered the defense, and made this decision. It will be because we have every intention of preparing to take action to remove donald trump from the ballots under this provision, a similar kind of provision to show that he is not qualified to be on the ballot for president because the constitution says he cannot serve. That is The Big Question. The Law Review Article, the Plane Waiting on the text which i think is a plausible case. How would it even work at the federal level . What would be the actual legal mechanics by which this law would be rendered real with respect to donald trump . So obviously where we are on ground that hasnt been tilden a very long time. Every state has laws and procedures for who is qualified to be on the ballot. For instance, if this has happened if a 31yearold runs for president , the constitution says you have to be 30 51. If the procedure is a little different in different states, but a citizen can go to court and say this person is not qualified. And the court will hold an evidentiary hearing, look at the evidence, and make that determination. Also, a secretary of state, the chief election officer in a state, can make that determination themselves. They can say, you know, again, this person is 32 years old, they cant be president. We will take them off the ballot. The same thing applies here, even if the stakes seem a lot higher, it is really the same kind of qualification from the constitution. , crew 4 whom you, eric has written that Section Threes historical application made clear that a Criminal Charge or conviction is not necessary for the judge to disqualify. It it can be adjudicated for civil lawsuits and with respect rip the Disqualification Clause can be enforced by, as you, said state Election Officials and in state courts as part of the process for determining who can appear on ballots for president ial elections. Final quick question for you, youve got to do it ahead of time, right . You cant do it after. Its gotta be this question of, can they appear on the ballot as a front and question. Thats right. You can go to try to remove someone from office once they are in office. But thats obviously much more explosive situation to end up in. When you have someone who should be qualified, you ought to get in there soon. Thats what we intend to do and we hope and we trust that courts and Election Officials will follow the constitution. This is a real Sleeper Issue that we will stay on because i think it could be quite explosive as it proceeds. Noah bookbinder, thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me. Still to come after wildfires destroyed a why in town, killing more than 50 people, senator brian schatz joins me on the increasing dangerous to communities across the country, next. Country, next. If we had taken a right turn instead of a left . Or if we had taken the place with the hot tub or the one uptown . We went downtown. Could we be fabulous . Or fantabulous . Apartments. Com the place to find a place. When i was diagnosed with hiv, i didnt know who i would be. But here i am. Being me. Keep being you. And ask your Healthcare Provider about the number one prescribed hiv treatment, biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in many people whether youre 18 or 80. With one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to undetectable and stay there whether youre just starting or replacing your current treatment. Research shows that taking hiv treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting hiv through sex. Serious side effects can occur, including Kidney Problems and kidney failure. Rare, lifethreatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. Do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. Tell your Healthcare Provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. If you have hepatitis b do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your Healthcare Provider. Common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. No matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. Talk to your Healthcare Provider today. When migraine strikes, youre faced with a choice. Ride it out with the tradeoffs of treating . Or push through the pain and symptoms . With ubrelvy, theres another option. One dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain. Treat it anytime, anywhere without worrying where you are or if its too late. Do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. Allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. Most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. Migraine pain relief starts with u. Ask about ubrelvy. Learn how abbvie could help you save. Sometimes Jonah Wrestles with falling asleep. So he takes zzzquil. The worlds 1 Sleep Aid Brand for a better night sleep. sfx ding, ding, ding. so now, he wakes up feeling like himself. sfx Crowd Cheering the reigning family room middleweight champion. get the rest to be your best with zzzquil. Its nonhabit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. Better days start with zzzquil nights. And try zzzquil purezzzs melatonin gummies. Displaced residents of lahaina on the island of maui are still waiting to return home, as we see images of the nearly complete destruction of their Historic Town from wildfires. The destruction of lahaina is especially hard because of The Deep Hawaii in cultural history it held. In the 19th century, the town, situated on the island of maui, served as the capital of the unified Hawaiian Kingdom before colonization. Afterwards, it served as a cultural center, Helping Preserve Traditional Hawaiian Dance and revitalize why in language. The Courthouse Crowns and eight foot bond tree planted in 1873 is now over 60 feet high, spending nearly an acre. Today, the entire town is burned to the ground. At least 67 people are confirmed dead, though Officials Say they do not know how many people may have died in and around lahaina, or how many people may still be missing. Nearly 2000 structures burned down, including irreplaceable historical buildings. But among the few things left standing is that bannon tree, which is smoldering and damaged, but still there. Brian schatz is the democratic senator from hawaii who share these images from the devastated maui during his tour of the area yesterday. He is here to tell us about it now. Senator, it is great to have you under awful circumstances. Like i, said everybody have talked to end scene is thinking about folks in hawaii and pulling for you and sending love and concern. What did you see yesterday when you were able to tour the parts that were so devastated . Thanks, chris, for doing this, and thank you for your kind words. I want to thank everybody across the country, across the world for the solidarity and the support and the money that is pouring in. Because this is a disaster ongoing. We are still in disaster a sponsor, we are not in the rebuilding phase. What i saw was it was as though a bombing had happened on lahaina. Its flattened. It is raised to the ground. And the sugar mail is intact, the lighthouse is intact, the beignet is Still Standing but its unclear whether or not it will survive. Basically Everything Else is gone. Weve got thousands of people now in temporary shelters. We are trying to restore power and telecommunications. But this is, every bit as bad as the pictures. We walked down front street and it is a smoldering, toxic mess were used to be this vibrant town, Beautiful Hawaiians and filipinos and portuguese and caucasians and tourists from all over the planet and people surfing and fishing and watching the whales and having a beer and dancing. It is now what you see on the screen. Its a devastating time for the people of hawaii. We appreciate the solidarity as we navigate through the next several weeks and months and years. So the next steps now, my understanding, correct me if im, wrong the fire itself is largely contained and not currently threatening folks. But what are the next steps in this Emergency Response . Well, its a couple of things. First, we do have a bunch of unhoused people. We are working with fema to free up hotel rooms. South maui is still operational from a resort standpoint. We are trying to free up enough hotel rooms to accommodate our local residents as we try to figure out a little bit more of a medium term, temporary shelters situation. And then today, teams from fema are arriving with dogs to do the final search and rescue. Because nobody has entered any of these structures that have burned down. Thats where we unfortunately anticipate that the death toll will rise significantly. Simultaneous to that, weve reopened the road to west mally. West mally is a pretty good pretty big not just lahaina. Townline batten is not detectable, its not safe to be there. But the rest of west mally was cut off from vehicular access, so people were starting to run out of stuff. Toilet paper, water, gasoline, food, clothing, everything. That has been reopened and we will kind of alleviate a little bit of the challenge. Over the next several weeks and months, it is going to be a big job of debris removal. It is not safe to go into the haina. It is not safe to rebuild in lahaina. Its not even safe to remove stuff. So fema, the e department of defense, Secretary Austin called me this morning to express not just his solidarity but his willingness to deploy resources to the island of maui to help with debris removal. We will need epa in there to make sure that the toxicity is handled. But the next step is to reremove weve gotten pledges on a bipartisan basis from a highranking official and the legislative branch to support the funding necessary in a supplemental appropriations bill to allow molly to rebuild, lahaina to rebuild. You represent one of the most distinct, special places on earth. And also one of the places on earth probably most exposed to climate risk, for bench reasons. This fire is the product of a lot of different confluence of things, from Invasive Species to drop and other things. But youve been an out spoken climate hawk on this issue. How are you feeling about where we sit right now having just looked at this destruction yesterday . You know, my old friend, neil abercrombie, when he said there is only one thing worse than being wrong in politics, and that is being right. People will never forgive you for being right. I sort of feel like right now what we are seeing is the Climate Crisis in three dimensions. Its no longer a political question, its no longer a polarizing question. It is just what is happening to the people on the island of maui. We are seeing that increasingly in colorado, arizona, washington, state or, california. This is our new reality. Weve got to do two things. First, weve got to understand that that reality requires that we manage our forest differently, that we manage our resources differently, and that we are prepared for an increasing frequency and severity of Severe Weather events. And secondly, although we took a big action on climate, the biggest action in the History Of Humankind last year, it is not enough. We need to keep. No. We need to keep our pedal to the metal address the Climate Crisis. That is not going to deal with wildfires next summer. That is not going to deal with droughts and floods next summer. Weve also got to beef up our Emergency Management and disaster recovery. Senator brian schatz, from the hawaiian islands, thank you so much for talking tonight. Thank you, chris. And that is all in for this week. Alex wagner tonight starts right now. Good evening, ali. Wagner thanks, chris. Its great that you had, well, that youve been covering this two nights in a row. Its devastating when it has happened there and the news gets worse every hour that passes, to such an incredible place in not just america but the world