I would love to talk i will talk about it. Theyre not taking away my First Amendment rights. Donald trump claiming earlier this week that no one is going to stop him from speaking about his criminal case. Today, judge Tanya Chutkan laid down the law and told trumps lawyer that trumps words will have consequences. And the First Amendment is not absolute. Plus, attorney general Merrick Garland appoints a Special Counsel to investigate hunter biden . And republicans are predictably complaining about it after spending months demanding exactly that. And good evening, everyone. Happy friday. Tonight was a big night for donald trump, who discovered that after all, at least to the criminal Justice System, he is no different from anyone else. Despite his fame and political prominence, he cant just publicly abuse witnesses because hes on the campaign trail. The judge who taught him that lesson today is named Tanya Chutkan. I have a bunch more to say on her in a bit, but we begin the reidout tonight with something along those same lines. And it is the truism that sometimes things are not as they seem. Even when they involve Hollywood Stars and former president s. For example, today in hollywood, actors and writers continue to walk the picket lines, still unable to reach an agreement with the studios and producers like netflix. A reminder that while our perception is that hollywood is this glamorous place where all the actors and writers are fabulously rich, for the vast majority of them, that isnt true at all. Artifice is a big part of hollywood. Making you believe things that arent real. The same is often true in politics. The Washington Post reports this week that tommy tuberville, the alabama senator currently holding up all u. S. Military promotions due to his opposition to abortion, including leaving the army and marines leaderless, and whose obstruction appears to have cost alabama the headquarters of Space Command which will now remain in colorado, reportedly doesnt even live in alabama. The senator angtually lives in florida. His wife has a Florida Real Estate license even and he hasnt actually lived in the state he represents for years. They even included a link to this video in which tuberville says after retiring as a Football Coach, he moved to florida. But tuberville got elected to the senate not because he was a good politician or had great idea. He got elected because he was a famous Football Coach who used to coach at Auburn University in alabama. So alabama republicans gleefully replaced actual civil rights hero and one term democrat, senator doug jones with tuberville. Because it just sounded right to them, right . Auburn coach becomes alabama senator. And if his voters dont like the fact he doesnt actually live there, well, theyre out of luck until 2026 when hes up for reelection. Tuberville, of course, is not the only interesting Character Living in florida. Roger stone, the proud boys, michael flynn, and of course, donald trump lived there, too. Trump moved to florida after he became president after building a career in new york that convinced most people that he was a successful real estate billionaire. So powerful was that myth that he landed the apprentice, which turned him into a celebrity. And then he became president of the United States, same formula as how tuberville became a senator. And i just dont think that people think enough about how much the artifice that got him here is why it is so hard for people who Support Trump and even some who dont really to believe that he committed crimes. Even when the evidence says that he absolutely totally did. People enjoy believing in hollywood mythology and worshiping the Rich And Famous. It is endemic to american culture. Remember the show, lifestyles of the Rich And Famous . It was a huge hit, just like the apprentice was. And for a lot of people who look up to trump as a rich celebrity they idolize, its just easier to believe that he wouldnt commit crimes because he wouldnt have to. Hes just being set up by his enemies. And while the actual facts say no, joe biden did Beat Celebrity president donald trump, the idea that trump really won just seems more believable to a lot of fellow americans. The famous guy winning just makes more sense to them. And trump has used that perception of himself to grow his support into something more than fandom, hes used his celebrity to grow himself a religious cult. And hes using his superfans ardent support to try to build a wall around himself, that he hopes will keep him out of prison. Because all he needs is one superfan on his juries to throw the governments case against him. All he needs is one friendly judge, hey, florida. He just needs one juror who believes that all celebrities are rich and rich celebrities dont commit crimes. But what if america in next years election once again chooses the real politician over the celebrity . I mean, it is likely to happen. A poll round up by political strategist Simon Rosenberg shows a consistent three to four point lead for biden. Its an outcome that could trigger a replay of 2020 all over again. If trump goads his supporters with the big lie 2. 0. We also have to consider the flip side, what if he wins . Lets just entertain this frightening hypothetical for a moment, that its november 2024, and trump is declared the winner of the election. Nightmare scenario, i know. But what if democrats, democrats in key states, object to certifying his electors . Based on the 14th Amendment. Its a question two constitutional scholars tackled for more than a year, and then they spoke to the New York Times. These are conservative scholars, i should add, who are active members of the Federalist Society. The conservative legal group and proponents of originalism, the method of interpretation that seeks to determine the constitutions original meaning. One of those professors, william body, summarized their conclusion saying, quote, donald trump cannot be president. Cannot run for president. Cannot become president , cannot hold office, unless twothirds of congress decides to grant him amnesty for his conduct on january 6th. This is based on a little known provision of the 14th Amendment which bars people who have engaged in an insurrection from Holding Government office. The intent was to prevent the president from allowing former leaders of the confederacy to regain power within the u. S. Government. Congress can remove the prohibition, the provision says, but only by a twothirds vote in each house. Now, of course, these findings dont change the fact that Trump Supporters are determined to elect him again. But they will boost, they will help boost these lawsuits that could be filed arguing that trump is indeed ineligible to be president. Professor Michael Stokes paulson, the second scholar, said, quote, there are many ways that this could become a lawsuit. Presenting a vital constitutional issue that potentially the Supreme Court would want to hear and decide. Joining me now is laurence tribe, who has taught Constitutional Law at Harvard Law School for five decades. Great to see you, Professor Tribe. Im officially obsessed with this scholarship by these Federalist Society judges that i dont normally say that. Whats fascinating about it is what theyre saying is that it is unquestionably fair to say that donald trump, this is what theyre saying, engaged in the january 6th insurrection through both his actions and inaction. Therefore, they say that under the 14th Amendments article three, he cannot be even in some cases added to the ballot to be president of the United States. And people can sue over that and make that claim. What do you make of their argument . Well, i think that theres a great deal to be said for it. You dont have to be an originalist, somebody who thinks that the constitutions meaning has to be excavated from the history and what people understood it meant at the time. In this case, its simply the straight up language, 14th Amendment section 3 says that anybody who takes an oath to uphold the constitution and thereafter engages in or gives aid and comfort to an insurrection cannot hold any office under the United States, period. Now, back in i think it was spring of last year, judge michael luting, a distinguished conservative and i, both wrote that we thought those words meant exactly what they said. A lot of people have said, oh, no. You have to take them in light of an 1869 decision rendered by Chief Justice chase in a case called enray griffin. These two scholars do a terrific job of shredding that Circuit Court opinion by one Supreme Court justice. So what is left . Whats left is a kind of practical argument, some people say that provision cant be selfexecuting. It cant just rise up Out Of The Ashes and grab politicians and say, sorry, you were an insurrectionist, you cant run. There has to be implementing legislation under section 5 of the 14th Amendment. But theres nothing in there that suggests that you need new legislation, and anyway, all 50 states have laws called laws where you can ask by what warrant do you hold this office. And the only modern decision applying this language used that law or something just like it in new mexico to say that a County Commissioner who had actually taken part in the insurrection though he hadnt been convicted of any insurrection crime, only of trespass, couldnt hold his office. Now, an Appeals Court never ruled on that because the case became moot. He lost an election. But i would imagine that whenever donald trump tries to run in any particular jurisdiction, the Secretary Of State of that jurisdiction, whether on the basis of this article or little more obviously on the basis of this little pamphlet, the constitution of the United States, just read it and say wait a minute, you cant run. Now, he will say, i was never convicted of insurrection. I was only convicted in the District Of Columbia under the indictment brought under other laws by jack smith. Im assuming perhaps he will have been convicted before the election. But it is clear, you dont have to be convicted of insurrection in order to be disqualified. Now, when Michael Stokes paulson says i think the u. S. Supreme court is going to be eager to rule on this, i beg to differ. I dont know about that. You know, they could easily duck. Lower courts could say as a matter of real politic, were not going to take this old language. We may be originalists when it comes to other things, but you know, here were going to find a way out. So im not sure whats going to happen, but it is clearly a major issue overhanging any possible trump presidency. And i think its going to be a Major Political issue going forward. You know, the thing is, whats fascinating is that there have already been two cases that have been brought. Lawsuits against Madison Cawthorn and Marjorie Taylor greene on this exact basis in North Carolina and georgia. In Marjorie Taylor greenes case, she escaped in with a victory. But in cawthorns case, it got further but it was made moot because he lost. Heres whats so odd about this whole world we live in now. If this went to the Supreme Court, sitting on that court is Clarence Thomas who seems to be as chris hayes said so brilliantly last night, a kept man by very rich rightwing interests and whose wife is also an insurrectionist. She was in touch with eastman, she was sending emails trying to get the insurrection going. The Supreme Court would be in its most awkward position ever if Clarence Thomas had to be one of the people ruling on whether donald trump was equal to his wife. Pretty awkward. I mean, it really does suggest that the only way out of this forest is right through the trees. For the electorate of the United States to decide we do not want this chaos. We dont want this wouldbe dictator who tried to hold on to power even though he had lost the election. We dont want him in office because once hes there, its only his Life Expectancy that will ever lead him to leave. And if he is defeated, yes, he might try again to find some way of grabbing on to power, but theres a big difference. This time, hes not going to be Commander In Chief of the military. Hes not going to have the Secret Service trying to hold him in power. Hes going to be an outsider trying to get in. And i dont think thats going to work. But we can expect chaos, and hes certainly trying in this trial to win through chaos. Hes basically saying, you tell me that i cant name the witnesses, that i cant indirectly scare them . Just watch me. And judge chutkan is pretty serious. She said no, you watch me. The more you try to make a carnival out of this, and the more you violate my rules which are standard rules about not being able to disclose sensitive material like witness transcripts, the faster im going to get this trial going. Im going to take your right to speedy trial even more seriously. And that puts him in quite a bind, as he wants to win in the court of public opinion. He hopes to get that one juror that will despite the fact that he doesnt really have any obvious defenses, legal or factual, that will just say, i dont think this celebrity could possibly be guilty. I think hes probably realistic enough to know thats less likely to happen. What he really wants is to delay, delay, delay. He may succeed doing that in florida but not in the District Of Columbia with judge chutkan. Not at all, and in georgia, if hes convicted, as i recently found out, he cannot be pardoned automatically by the governor. Its a commissioner, so even kemp couldnt save him. Laurence tribe, its been a treat. Thank you so much. Always great to talk with you. You have set us up perfectly for our next segment. Up next on the reidout, the no nonsense judge we wr talking about in trumps january 6th case warns him about what he can and cannot say as Professor Tribe was saying, without landing himself in even hotter water. As the doj prepares to turn over 11 million pages of evidence. The reidout continues after this. Im jayson. Im living with hiv and im on cabenuva. It helps keep me undetectable. For adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, longacting Hiv Treatment you can get every other month. Cabenuva is two injections, given by my Healthcare Provider, every other month. Its really nice not to have to rush home and take a daily hiv pill. Dont receive cabenuva if youre allergic to its ingredients or if you taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. Serious side effects include allergic reactions postinjection reactions, Liver Problems, and depression. If you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. 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Powered by The Next Generation 10g network and with 99. 9 reliability. Plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. Its the mobile made free eventhappening now. Get started for just 49. 99 a month. Plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. Comcast business, powering possibilities. If there was a clear takeaway from todays dramatic hearing over the Protector Order in Donald Trumps 2020 election interference case, its that judge Tanya Chutkan is living up to her reputation as a nononsense judge and shes clearly running the show. Hiel she sided with the defense that the protective order request was too broad and it should only apply to sensitive material, she included the wince interview transcripts. She made it clear she was going to give trump the same rights she would any other citizen, no more, no less, regardless of his status as a political candidate. She said, mr. Trump, like every american, has a First Amendment right to free speech, but that right is not absolute. And when Trump Lawyers argued that trump should be given special treatment because he was a political he has a Political Campaign to think about and that the witness testimonies like from his former Vice President mike pence could become a political issue, the judges response was, quote, hes a criminal defendant. Hes going to have restrictions like every single other defendant, unquote. And before closing the hearing, she issued a stern warning to trump and his team to avoid statements that could intimidate witnesses, prejudice potential jurors or create a Carnival Atmosphere around the case, adding, even arguably ambiguous statements by the parties or their counsel if they could be reasonably interpreted to intimidate witnesses or prejudice potential jurors can threaten the process. If that happens, she said, she would take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings, including moving up the trial date. Joining me now is mary mccord, former Principal Deputy assistant attorney general and msnbc legal analyst. Reading the notes, mary, of this hearing, i was like, ooh, dont play with judge chutkan. All of her responses were very blunt, succinct, and definitive, but that last part i think is important because she seemed to be saying if you play with me, im going to make this trial earlier, and what the trump team wants is for the trial to be as late as possible. Is that how you read it . Absolutely. She says in many ways, the more inflammatory statements there are before trial, the more urgency we have to get to trial. And thats directly related to the type of rhetoric and inflammatory statement we have already been hearing from mr. Trump. Those have a direct impact on his base. They cause people to take actions. We did just see an attempted attack on President Biden in Salt Lake City just two days ago or maybe it was yesterday. Im losing track of time. But i think shes recognizing the threat, her other rulings, you know, being not as expansive as what the government asked but being very clear that sensitive materials include any witness transcripts, witness statements, et cetera. Making clear that mr. Trump, although he can have access to that, cant write down any personally identifying information, cant have access to any recording devices. I mean, shes really treating him very much frankly like she doesnt trust him, but these are conditions you would put on somebody when you are worried about witness security. And shes worried about witness security. My favorite part of that about him not being able to, his notes need to be reviewed by his counsel if he takes notes after reviewing things, that the lawyer doesnt have to be in the same room with him, but then they have to review his notes, then she says, he has a history of being in possession of things he shouldnt. Its like, oop, reference to the florida case. This is one of the things that judge chutkan said to lauro, attorney lauro. Youre conflating what your client needs to do to defend himself and what your client wants to do politically. His defense is supposed to happen in the courtroom, not on the internet. Thats making your point, what he wants to do is go out and say mike pence doesnt have the courage, he didnt have the courage, and continue to attack him. And then mike pence testifies. And there are other witnesses who dont have Secret Service who he could intimidate too, when he says if you come after me, im going after you, that seems like that was meant to be witness intimidation. If trump does it anyway, i understand that in theory, if he was a regular person, jail could be an option. Is jail an option here . I mean, it certainly is an option in terms of if he violates conditions of release. And she did explicitly make a statement about if some statements could end up violating conditions of release. And shes prepared to take actions she thinks would be necessary to violate those. I think that jailing him pretrial would be a last ditch remedy. I think there are intermediate steps before that. There could be things, for example, like you may not post anything on social media without clearing it through your counsel. Something like that, if that was then violated, she could escalate that up to clearing it through the court. I mean, these things kind of arent big measures but theyre certainly short of detaining someone in a jail pretrial. And its clear shes very worried about the kind of witnesses who dont have Secret Service. She specifically referenced that too. Not every witness who you might want to talk about has protection and has security. And what about this january 2nd trial date. The prosecutors want a january 2 trial date. Theyre prepared to turn over that 11. 6 million pages of discovery in first production. Were ready to go. That does put us just before Iowa Caucuses and new hampshire, but it seems like they want to get it done like basically new years day, happy new year, lets get to trial. They clearly are moving very fast. Or wanting the court to move very fast. And it was kind of interesting today because at one point, judge chutkan kind of made a joke in talking to defense counsel, lie i cant wait to hear your response next week to the governments request on a trial date. Because as they were complaining about this and that and the other, i think she was foreseeing that they are definitely not going to be agreeing to january 2nd. So i think that is an aggressive schedule. I saw the dates that the government laid out. But the fact is they also are turning over huge volumes of dicovery, and they can say, we have organized it very neatly, we have pointed you to everything we think is the most important, but defense counsel, they get to decide what they think is the most important, and theyre going to want to look through everything. So i do think that i would do what the government did and make it very well organized and very easy to search and be able to tell the judge i did that. Nevertheless, even if its easy to search, you have to have the human beings to lay eyes on things. It would not surprise me if that slips a bit. But i do think that this judge is not going to put up with shenanigans that are all about delay, delay, delay. No shenanigans, no tomfoolery, not going down in that court, i can tell just from reading the read out of what happened there today. Mary is sticking around with me a little longer. We appreciate her being here because i need someone to help me understand why republicans who demanded a Special Counsel be assigned to the Hunter Biden Case are so furious now that a Special Counsel has been assigned to the Hunter Biden Case. Make it make sense. I suffer with Psoriatic Arthritis and psoriasis. I was on a journey for a really long time to find some relief. Cosentyx works for me. Cosentyx helps real people get real relief from the symptoms of Psoriatic Arthritis or psoriasis. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or lowered ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to or if ibd symptoms develop or worsen. I move so much better because of cosentyx. Ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. 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To hear the right tell it, the only story you should care about is hunter biden, the president s son, who has no role in government. For months, they have used their House Majority to relentlessly investigate him. Now, what they have credibly revealed is that public figures and their children trade on their name for access. Shocker. Jared and ivanka did it, Roger Clinton did it, and so did hunter biden. However, that Rnen Fixation has only resulted in two tangible things. Donald trumps first impeachment and launching a 2018 Trump Justice Department investigation into hunter biden. The man in charge of that investigation, david weiss has been looking into whether hunter biden properly paid his taxes in 2017 and 2018. They were focused on a federal form hunter biden filled out while purchasing a gun in 2018. He lied when he claimed he was not a drug user. He later admitted he was. To be crystal clear, the Special Counsel is not investigating the president of the United States. Hes investigating his son. But that hasnt stopped republicans from accusing hunter biden of running a corrupt Business Enterprise with foreign cash that also benefitted his father. Again, theres nothing inherently illegal from accepting money from foreign interests if youre a private citizen, even if your parent is a famous politician. You do however have to pay your taxes on it, which hunter biden is accused of not doing. Last month, he agreed to a plea deal for failing to pay taxes and illegal gun possession. That deal fell apart after a trump nominated federal judge failed to accept it. Merrick garland who has been accused of the right of running a twotier Justice System that only prosecutors conservatives announced he was appointing david weiss Special Counsel in the probe. He told him that in his judgment, his investigation has reached a stage at which he he should continue his work as a Special Counsel. There we are. Mary is back with me. Question number one, since when are Special Counsels appointed for private citizens . I want to read you this. Devon archer who is on the board of Burisma Holdings which only people who watch fox understand what that is, that was the company that hunter biden was on the board of as well when joe biden was Vice President. He testified in front of the committee that wanted to take down joe biden that hes not aware of any wrongdoing by joe biden, that he never heard of a 5 million transfer or any transfer to joe biden and ukrainian prosecutor who was fired was not viewed as a threat by the company and hunter biden was selling the illusion of access to his father but never sold access to his father. Ergo, joe biden is not involved in this, nor did he buy an illegal gun or was using drugs. Why is a Special Counsel investigating hunter biden . Well, the Special Counsel regulations provide that the attorney general may appoint a Special Counsel when he concludes that it would be in the Public Interest. Thats exactly what Merrick Garland did here. He did it, i think, also because david weiss asked him to do it. I think he concluded for the same reasons he said even before appointed him as the Special Counsel, he made it clear, mr. Weiss made it clear that he had the ability and authority to operate pretty independently of the department of justice. I think mr. Garland recognizes the sensitive nature of investigating the son of a president. Youre right, hes a private citizen. Its about conduct he took in his private capacity, although there are certainly allegations that he tried to capitalize on his fathers you know possession in government to help him win these contracts. Thats certainly something thats being discussed and alleged. This is real a one where the attorney general said its in the Public Interest because we do not want to have any appearance of favoritism toward the president s son. Excuse me. And until this week, mr. Weiss had never asked for it. When he did ask for it, it would have been untenable at that point for the attorney general to say no. Imagine what would have happened if he had said no. People on the hill are hollering right now about appointing david weiss somebody weeks ago they said should be appointed. So in other words, hes being treated differently because hes joe bidens son. I want to read this piece here. The particular gun charge that the feds brought against joe biden, this is from the daily beast, a drug user in possession of a firearm is rarely brought as a standalone crime. Especially now that roughly a fifth of the country uses cannabis with a significant overlap with the nations estimated 80 million gun owners, more than that, i think. When the feds bring this type of case, they come down hard, but its usually a tool they use to bring down tough to commit criminals. I think all of the evidence that i have seen so far in this case is that hunter biden, he could be a terrible guy. I dont know, never met him, is being treated worse than anyone else would be. Hes being treated worse the way donald trump claims hes being treated worse, but he actually is. Because normally this would just be Misdemeanor Stuff that would be done with. Instead, hes endlessly investigated because of politics. Thats my perception. Whats yours . With respect to the gun charge, which i dont expect well see again because we now have a ruling from a circuit that that offense violated the Second Amendment after the Supreme Courts ruling last year in a different case, a Second Amendment case. I dont think well see that reappear. To your point, that charge was part of a negotiated plea agreement. So you know, theres lots of factors that go into that. Theres a give and take from both sides. It was something that was subject to a diversion agreement, which means he, if he complies with certain requirements for the period of two years, i think it was two years in that agreement, there would be no charge. So you know, im not going to say that i think hes treated totally differently because of that. I will say the very fact that david weisz was still even the prosecutor, forget the Special Counsel appointment today, even before that, he was a holdover trump appointed u. S. Attorney. Normally, all of the president s u. S. Attorneys resign on january 20th when the administration comes in. So already, there was some special treatment here or different treatment here, and it was all i think for political purposes. So it would not appear that the department of justice was going to replace a republican appointed prosecutor who is investigating the president s son. So politics are definitely a part of this, but thats i think why the attorney general said its in the Public Interest to do this. Make him hunter shobought nick, hes not be prosecuted. Coming up, the death toll continues to climb as searchers dig through the rubble left behind after wildfires tore across the Hawaiian Island of maui. Well bring you the latest next. Rsv can be a dangerous virus. [sneeze]. For those 60 and older. Its not just a cold. And if youre 60 or older. You may be at increased risk of hospitalization. [coughing]. From this highly. Contagious virus. Not all dangers come with warning labels. Talk to your pharmacist or doctor. About getting vaccinated against rsv today. tony hawk skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. Ti take Qunol Turmerict because it helps. With healthy joints and inflammation support. Why qunol . It has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. Qunol. The brand i trust. Rsv is in for a surprise. Meet arexvy. the first fdaapproved rsv vaccine. Arexvy is used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. Arexvy is proven to be over 82 effective in preventing lower Respiratory Disease from rsv and over 94 effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Rsv can be serious. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist about arexvy today. Rsv . Make it arexvy. The search for survivors in hawaii continues as maui reels from the devastating wildfires this week. At least 67 people are confirmed dead with more than 1,000 people missing. Nbcs tom llamas has the latest. Reporter tonight, the return to lahaina, residents allowed back in and we saw from the skies above the shock that awaits them. Even at 400 feet in had air, you can smell the smoke days later and you look down and you cant make out what youre seeing. It looks to be a town that once existed but nearly every building, every house, every car scorched completely off the map. Block by block, we see a grid of misery. Once the capital of the hawaiian kingdom, a tourist mecca, and now a wasteland of ash and rubble. Down there, theres the grid search for bodies happening right now. Those that could not escape and the residents of lahaina believe the death toll is going to be much higher. And officials have warned that they expect to find even more bodies once they start searching building to building, house to house. We rode in with maverick helicopters usually giving tours. Today saving lives. Its been heartbreaking, almost hard to put into words what we have seen out here. Reporter their choppers carrying thousands of pounds of aid being unloaded by regular hawaiians looking to help. People are lying dead in the streets out here. Hundreds of people are dead. I dont know whats really on the news. Reporter its been terrible to see those images. Devastating, horrible. They had no warning. It happened so fast, the winds were so strong. Reporter new video just in showing the power of the deadly fires, forcing so many to flee into the water, clinging to rocks amid crashing waves and thick smoke. For days, the catastrophic wildfires have burned in maui, carving a deadly path, likely becoming the largest Natural Disaster in hawaiis history. Everybody lost everything. I dont know how youre supposed to feel. Reporter the cause of the fire is still under investigation and many residents say the flames erupted with almost no warning. My heart is just broken for everyone. Everyone who has lost someone, everyone who doesnt know where someone is. Reporter Maui Resident danielle tells me she cant get in touch with her grandmother who lived in an assisted living facility. What would you want to tell her . I would tell her, i dont want to tell her that were looking for her, grandma, were looking for you, if you can reach a phone, call us. Let us know where youre at, or anybody can see her, is with her, knows who she is. Just contact us. We just want to find some contact to get her. Reporter National Guard recovery teams are on the ground in lahaina, working their way through neighborhoods where homes once stood. The full extent of the destruction of lahaina, it will shock you. It does appear like a bomb and fire went off. Reporter already this is among the most deadly Wildfire Disasters in the u. S. , as the staggering scope of devastation continues to grow. Nbcs tom llamas, thank you. Well be right back. You could e 700 dollars just by switching. Ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. On the top of the pile oh. 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But i can name three or four people but i wouldnt support for president. Surprise, surprise. Less than two weeks to log into the first republican president ial debate of the 20 2024 campaign season, the twice impeached thrice indicted former president , who still refuses to admit that he lost the 2020 election, is now also refusing to sign a pledge to support the republican nominee if its not him. Surprise. Joining me now is Creative Director at thegrio, of the durational podcast as well as the new animated series, star stories, which is really amazing. And jamele bowie, New York Times columnist and cohost of the unclear and present danger podcast. It seems like it doesnt even matter if hes gonna sign this pledge because i cant see him supporting those candidates anyway if its not him is not gonna tell his maga followers to vote for that person anyway, right . I think thats right. Thats pretty much what happened in 2016. He refused to commit to supporting any other nominee, refused to accept the results of the election if you lost. We know how that played out for years later. His whole power over the republican party, at first, was this fear among republican officeholders or elites that if he did not stay on his good side and he wasnt the nominee that he would lose voters. I think he still retains some of that now. Hes not gonna meet the pledge because he doesnt need to. If he is a nominee. He still retains power to say no, i dont support that person. And thats what republicans are afraid of. And we talked a little bit earlier in the show, to ray, Donald Trumps power is that he is a celebratory, and for a lot of his supporters there not his supporters, or his fans. Some voted for obama. Theyre not republicans, hardcore, theyre just there for him. Hes wrapping this cult around himself because he doesnt want to go to prison. He doesnt care about politics of the republican party. I dont understand why republican, elected republicans are somehow thinking they can bring him into the fold and have him be a republican. This whole exercise of signing this pledge, this is specifically for trump, this is not something that we have ever seen parties do or even have to do. We have always assumed, if you came in number two in the primary, you would support the person who came in number one. That has always been the way. What it represents, what jamelle is saying, the party is really a trump party. Its not really the republican party. He has swallowed it whole. And some of the people in his belly or republicans, some are people who have never voted for there. But theyll come out for him, even if they typically voted democrat. They love him for all sorts of me reasons the media has cataloged endlessly, but they really are talking about him he has a cult personality, underlining the word cult. You know who it is a sign manchin. It doesnt even know if he, he wants to pull a christian sinema. A, okay, does anybody really care at this point because hes probably gonna lose that relate campaign anyway. What do you think democrats ought to think about this . As much of as its frustrating to democrats i think we should let joe manchin do his thing. Youre at that hes not in a favorable position for reelection against republican nominee jim just, with current governor. I think hes looking for any way to separate himself from the National Democratic brand and survive an office and if he feels he needs to be an independent thats fine for him and it wouldnt alter his actual behavior in congress that much. Im not sure what material its gonna make but it may help him stay in office. If it turns out that he wins and its 50 50 senate again. Then it will be an oil company executive, which is what he is anyway. Im willing to sign a pledge. Im an old haboob fan and i believe love the fact that women in hiphop are getting a moment to shine. And tony hilton did a great piece. Big moment to shine. And tony hilton did a great piece. Let me show a little piece of it. In the traditional female rappers like jackie oh, treanor, and missy elliott, their music is boastful and raunchy. The city girls often encourage women to take advantage of man. The draft position to the men in hiphop, who have long degraded women. They say growing up in poverty in miami shaped the way they see the world and made both women determined to find Financial Freedom and control. But as where the great stephanie cargill, important to women in hiphop, red . Incredibly important. Women have been part of this conversation in hiphop. It has been a boys club at times, im a sergeants stick, extremely, at times, but women have been an important part throughout his pop. As you said, women are seeing, i having a great moment. Nikki and are two of the most popular emcees in the game, and there is a large group of others, coyle of roy, ice spice, and others who are coming up. Theres a lot of really interesting women to a lot of interesting work right now. Really important. And oldschool people like queen latifah. Before i go, i want to invite my amazing guests to stick around to play a quick round of, who won the week . Jamelle, who won the week . I have the strangest answer to this. William friedkin who passed away this week. But thats not why he won. He won because his passing has prompted people to reappraise and reevaluate and look back at his career, and all of people know his big hit to the exercised and the french connection. He had a long career afterwards with films like sorcerer and to live and die in los angeles, which are phenomenal films that i think people are paying more attention to and revisiting and talking and thinking about watching, which i think is a great thing for the late director and for people who care about movies. So william friedkin. Especially during the Writers Strike in recognizing the artistry of great directors. All right, tyre, who, in your view, won the week . Is there any other story in the week . Everybody black in montgomery won the week for this especially the swimmer who got out of the boat because that is what he was taught to do. He was taught to come to the aid of his brothers and sisters when they are in need, and those of us who are parents, seeing that like oh, he feels the communal aspect of blackness. We love that. Proud to see all those folks rise up and fight back. I actually have an interview for who won the week, and it along and same lines because the hat man was amazing, the swimmer was amazing, all the brothers that marched in the defense of the hatch man, but here is my whole of the week. It is the Freedom Chair. I think we have an exclusive interview with the Freedom Chair. Lets go to the freedom turn. Our Freedom Chair, are you here . There he is. All right, Freedom Chair, please tell us, we know you were invented by a black man, by an african american. Your thoughts on winning the week and on all the wind down in montgomery. Tell us. Oh, okay, i get it. You dont want to say nothing because youre trying to keep it low. I get it. I respect that, Freedom Chair. The Freedom Chair won the week, and that it. The Freedom Share one week in there he is. Tyre and jamelle bouie, thank you very much. And thank you Freedom Chair. We know you had to keep quiet, but we understand. All in with chris hayes starts right now. H tonight on all in this case