Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704

It evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle. Live from 30 rock, we begin this evening with the drama in d. C. As Donald Trumps legal team starts with the Department Of Justice yet again. The judge overseeing the trump 2020 election case, tanya chutkan, has responded to the latest filings around the governments request for a protective order by scheduling a hearing for friday morning at 10 am sharp that is not what the former president s attorneys were hoping for after judge chutkans initial order to set a hearing by the end of the week Trump Lawyers responded by complaining about their obligations in their other federal case, and then offering availability next Monday Or Tuesday. While the former president is not planning to appear in fridays hearing, he doubled down on the very behavior at the center of it all in New Hampshire earlier today. How can my corrupt political opponent, crooked joe biden, put me on trial during an Election Campaign that i am winning by a lot . And forced amy nevertheless to spend time and money away from the Campaign Trail in order to fight bogus, made up accusations in georgia. Thats what theyre doing. And well be able to go to iowa today, i wont be able to go to New Hampshire today because im sitting in a courtroom on bowl see it because the Attorney General charged me. I will talk about it. Theyre not taken away my First Amendment right. Allow me to point out that donald trump is making the claim that the Special Counsel has prevented him from campaigning in New Hampshire while hes at a campaign event, guess where, New Hampshire. Even while trump defies the judges orders, Special Counsel jack smiths investigation keeps rolling on. The grand jury met this morning in a d. C. Courthouse as the Special Counsel is reportedly still looking into the fundraising activities of trumps save america pact. With all of the drama in washington, fani williss investigation in georgia seems to be getting even closer to completion. One former federal Prosecutor Says that he expects an indictment soon. Were not talking about an eight month delay anymore. Were talking about an indictment that can be presented to the grand jury within a day or two. At that point will no. I expect that we will see broad, expansive indictments dealing with things like the rico charges and interference with the election, all of those things surrounding the Cell Phone Call with the secretary of state, that the former president , had all of that i think will be here. What does soon mean . It could mean next week. Right, now it seems like the only Silver Lining for trumps legal team comes out of the state of florida, where judge Aileen Cannon in charge of the classified documents case struck down to violence from the government, and criticize that the Special Counsel for using an out of sway jury. We have a lot to cover. Lets get smarter with our lead off panel. One of our favorite groups. Pulitzer prizewinning reporter for the new york times, the former fbi Assistant Director for counter intelligence, and former new york prosecutor and civil rights attorney, charles coleman. Frank, can we go to you first . The judges order, and these warnings, theyre not scaring donald trump. He is pushing further and further, attacking her, attacking jack smith. It seems like hes double dog daring her to slap a gag order on him. What do you think . Yes. I think it benefits him. He very watch wants to play the victim here, and there is some polling that suggests that maybe it does help him with the numbers. Look, he has not yet sat down in front of judge chutkan and her be admonishment that you will only talk about ex, you will not talk about why, we are going to preserve the evidence that you are going to receive in discovery. Listen, this is all about literally potential physical harm to witnesses. To prosecutors, to jurors, in that discovery, he gets everything that the prosecution has, meaning that witness statements, whos testifying against you, who are they . What are they going to say . Heres their statement under oath. All of that is usually under the grand jury secrecy. They dont want him to spell that out for, say, many months before the trial starts, where hes intimidating witnesses, et cetera. This is all in an attempt by the Trump Legal Team to turn what is routine into something ridiculous. This is a protective order, which as you pointed out earlier, its not a gag order. It does not say that you cant talk about the case at all. You cant campaign anywhere. It doesnt save that. He wants his base to say that. All it is is, i, we are agreeing that this evidence here is sensitive enough to where you should not be talking about it before the trial or during the trial. Lets let the trial play out. That is all it is. The routine part of this is becoming ridiculous because youre going to see, like anybody whos raised a teenager, stephanie knows, every single thing gets challenged. You give them an inch, they try to get an inch and a half. The judge wants this to happen on friday, they suggested next week. This is going to go on and on and on. And a judge told them to be, that charles, friday, we cant do friday. How about Monday Or Tuesday . She said no, see you at ten a. M. What do you think of that . Its turning out to be a tale of two different judges. If you look at what is happening in d. C. Versus whats happening in florida, its very clear the judge chutkan is going to keep this show moving, regardless of the Delay Tactics that Donald Trumps defense team is trying to avoid. Shes done a very good job of a balancing in the interest of both the prosecution and defense here. If you note, they have made the argument that Donald Trumps schedule will not allow him to appear. He does not have to appear. The show is going to go on. His attorneys still have to be there. He said dont come, just send your representation. Correct. And contrast that to what we see going on in florida where judge cannon is asking legal questions that Neither Party has put on the table. It is really turning out to be a very sharp contrast between how these different judges are going about the prosecution of the former president. Frank, this is not the only delay the trumps team wants. They want another delay in setting a trial date. How do you think that will go . This judge is going to move swiftly. A Speedy Trial Act will apply here. There will be delays and motions, even appeals. This is not going to work out for him at the end of the day he will turn it into something positive. He will say that this judge is giving me nothing. Everything that we suggest is getting tonight. Let me tell you something. If he continues on his promise, and hes true to his word at the New Hampshire rally, that he is going to talk about the case. If that means talking about whatever evidence is restricted and agreed upon in the protection order, we will have a president ial candidate who is campaigning from behind bars because he is being held on contempt of court. Thats where this slowmoving train is now speeding up and heading. Which might get his base extra excited, but as far as the general election, come on. Katie, tell us about a different angle, this secret memo on the fake electors that was revealed by this indictment. What can you tell us about this . The secret memo was written by a lawyer named ken chesbrough. One of trumps several lawyers trying to help him find ways to overturn the election. One of the interesting things about the memo, and this doesnt necessarily shed new light on the fact that donald trump and his team were trying to use the panel of fake electors to delay certain votes, and by time, but it really fills in some blanks as to the publics awareness and knowledge of just how detailed this plan was. A couple of things struck me. Number one, the lawyer, ken chesbrough, he says that there is a really good chance that this isnt going to hold up in court. It might not even hold up in the Supreme Court. But we need to try anyway. Hes already got doubts about what theyre doing, whether or not there is legal efficacy. But clearly, this is the second thing, he understands theres a real political efficacy. Theres a real political reason to try and delay the certification. And to continue to raise false beliefs in the idea that the election was stolen, there is voter fraud. He talks about counting the votes in such a way that donald trump is always ahead. He really wants to convince as Many Americans as possible that donald trump could have won so that everything is sorted out by the Supreme Court. It doesnt matter. The entire validity of the election, the Election Process is lost. Nobody will know what to believe, and it really helped donald trump to remain in power. Charles, donald trump wants to forget this court of law, and focus on the court of Public Opinion. I need you to explain for our audience. We understand how in the classified documents case, how sensitive that information is. Explain to us why it is so crucial that the material in the 2020 election, why that content also stays secret. Somebody who doesnt, realize they can, say didnt we learned about that in the January 6th Hearing . What trump is doing here, he wants it all out there before he sits trial. One of the biggest things that donald trump is doing to go on the offensive is basically try to expose as much information about rhinos and other people that were cooperating as much as possible. Why . He does not want those people to come forward. Ultimately, its a matter of keeping these witnesses from coming forward at trial because you have created a situation where with the environment and climate, Public Pressure is so high that they do not want to participate. Stephanie, in sports, there is a metaphor called putting the pressure on the refs. Make the refs do their job. That is what donald trump just trying to do because he is pushing the limits over and over. There are three primary reasons hes doing this. Number, one it plays well to his base. It helps them to raise money. It helps them raise, money as its going on, as hes doing this, because it creates a narrative in the court of Public Opinion that he is the victim, he is being persecuted. Number two, in the long, run it makes it more difficult to discipline him, because if you start early disciplining him, and you continue to do so throughout the course of this prosecution, later on, it gives life to the potential argument that this judge is biased, i dont know if i can get a fair trial, i want to make the appeal. Number three, even if neither of those things work, it helps them successfully delay. This is why, as frank already said, youre going to see them continue to push the envelope because he wants to put the pressure on the judge to try to make that decision. He is handling it very well so far. Lets talk about raising money, katie, trumps 2020 save america pact, it originally meant to investigate to investigate election fraud. Guess what . 36 million of it has ended up in his lawyers pockets. Jack smith has a lot of questions. What can you tell us . Heres what we do know. For everybody that says, why would anybody represent donald trump . Now we know there are 36 million reasons why. I was going to say, its very unusual in the past for Donald Trumps lawyers to be paid. It is interesting that its suddenly so much money. One thing that weve seen the Justice Department do in the past is say that if you say you are going to spend money one way when youre raising funds for a pack, or youre raising funds for political purposes, if you dont spend that money in the way that you said you will, you could get in trouble. We saw that with steve bannon and billed as you recall, he was going to raise money to build a wall, and thats not how it was spent. He got in trouble with the Justice Department. This is not its not a novel crime, its not something that they havent done before. It is interesting that theyve trained their sights on this pack. Again, keep in mind, when jack smith was appointed by merrick garland, he was not appointed to prosecute donald trump for any specific crime. He was appointed to look at behavior related to a variety of issues, including the documents held back at maralago, including the swirl of activity around january 6th. Jack smith vowed to do this as quickly as possible, to Rundown Everything as possible. But as were seeing, donald trump is throwing up a lot of leads to be investigated. This could go on for a little bit. Ultimately, which act smith is going to do is when all the dust settles, hell indict what he can indict, and what he cant, you will probably delineate in his final report to the Attorney General. What were the consequences look like . I think back to when donald trump and his family misused funds in the family foundation. Do you know what the punishment was . They werent allowed they had to shut down their foundation, none of his immediate family was even allowed to sit on a Charity Board for a decade. Lets say he gets found guilty. The super pac is found guilty of misusing the funds. What are the consequences . Meanwhile, hes out there raising more money every day. Yes, and lets expand on what katy raised, which is to let me add orient hans the saying, you dont just have to misuse the money by pocketing it, as they did with the build a wall, the founder of the build a Wall Foundation had to pay back 25 million in restitution to the donors who fought that they were really going to build a wall. You dont have to just put it somewhere where you told me youre not. You could be committing fraud by simply asserting an unknown falsehood young if they can prove the pack and are trump knew the election was rigged, which is whats already inserted in the indictment, and they defrauded people, then those donations become the proceeds of a crime, fraud, and then the government could seize or forfeit those. Its very common in fraud cases. Last year alone, doj seized or forfeited over a billion and a half dollars, just last year. Mark much of it in fraud cases. So it could be that eventually trump or the pack has to pay that money back. Well be watching. Lets talk about georgia. I mentioned earlier, charles, the trump could face charges as soon as next week. And what is you doing today . Attacking fani willis. The Fulton County d. A. Earlier in his remarks today he called her racist, he implied that she had some sort of improper relationship with a gang member. Absolute nonsense. Once a judge is chosen here, could he face any sort of punishment, any sanctions for this kind of behavior . He could, but he wont. At least not officially. I think thats part of the problem. But lets zero in on this point very quickly. He has attacked everyone who has been a part of these prosecutions in separate jurisdictions. But the label of racist he has reserved for certain people. Alvin bragg, fani willis let me think about what they have in common, let me think, let me think, let me think. Oh, theyre all black. There you go. And what it does, stephanie, it gives Talking Points directly to a White Nationalist base that is looking to try to justify donald trump as some sort of political martyr. And i think its important that people understand in terms of why he is selecting those people to use that language with. Hes not talking about jack smith using those terms. Hes not talking about other people using those terms. And it is something that is speaking directly to that base, very much so on purpose. Katie, lets talk about trumps former attorney, john eastman. He is facing disbarment for his part in these alleged schemes. Was this about proximity to power, or were Something Else going on here . I want you to remind our audience, john eastman wasnt some joker, wasnt some crack pot who was just lucky to have a seat at the paint the table. He was four years, i mean, he clerk for Supreme Court justices. He was dean of his law school and he could be disbarred or indicted here. Youre right. John eastman was a very respected lawyer in many arenas. He did very well. He certainly was not considered a crack part until some of the speeches he gave around january sticks. But what is interesting in general is a lot of people want to dismiss trump and trumpism as crazy in an aberration. But someone like john eastman shows us is that donald trump really did take over the republican establishment. He has managed to harness that power. I was speaking with professor the other day and i said what makes trump different from some other political radicals or political fringe movements . He said its because its not the fringe. He is the Republican Party. And that we have never seen before. To somebody like john eastman joining in with donald trump, i think its just a really big and important signifier, which is why we can to dismiss donald trump out of hand or what he stands for. And we can just dismiss it as something crazy. We really have to try to better understand it, because no matter what happens to donald trump, theres a good chance that much of what he stands for will remain active in our political life in the united states. As i said, there is a lot going on. Katie benner, charles coleman, thank you all for starting us off this evening. When we come back, if republicans werent listening before, they got the message loud and clear tonight. The huge statement from ohio voters on Abortion Rights. Later, my dear friend kara swisher is here breaking down the biggest headlines in business and tech. Were talking cage fight, a i, and Tucker Carlson come back. The 11th hour just getting underway on a big tuesday. On a big tuesday. Nt clean. Cold water, on those stains . Cold water cant clean tough stains . Id say that myth is busted. Turn to cold, with tide. I remember when i first started flying, and we would experience turbulence. I would watch the Flight Attendants. If theyre not nervous, then im not going to be nervous. Financially, im the Flight Attendant in that situation. The relief that comes over people once they know theyve got a guide to help them through, i definitely feel privileged to be in that position. dad we got our Subaru Forester wilderness i definitely feel privileged to discover all of the places that make us feel something more. vo subaru is the National Park foundations largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. First, theres an idea and you do something about it for the first time with godaddy. Then before you know it, it is a life changer. you make your first sale. Small business first. Never stopped coming. we did it and you have a partner that always puts you first way. no way start today at godaddy. Com. fan 1 there ya go thats what im talkin about no way josh allen is this your plan to watch the game today . hero fan uh, yea. I have to watch my neighbors Nfl Sunday Ticket. josh allen its not your best plan. But you know what is . Myplan from verizon. Switch now and theyll give you Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv, on them. hero fan this plan is amazing josh allen another amazing plan, backing away from here very slowly. fan 1 that was josh allen. fan 2 mmhm. vo for a limited time get Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv on us. A 449 value. Plus, get a free Samsung Galaxy s23. Only on verizon. We are following Breaking News out of ohio tonight, where a Ballot Measure that would make it harder to change the state constitution and protect Abortion Rights has officially and overwhelmingly failed. Here with me now to discuss, juanita tolliver, msnbc political analyst and host of Crooked Medias what ade podcast, an msnbc political analyst matthew dowd, also a former dubbed george w. Bushs strategist and founder of country over party. Juanita, my friend, i turn to you first. Just over a year ago, immediately after the demise of row, supreme Justice Samuel alito wrote, quote, women are not without electoral power. Did the Ladies Ohio Answer that call tonight . I feel like the ladies answered that call, the man answered the call, the young people answer the call, and i think what were gonna see when the data is released is that people across demographics turned out to show their support for at protecting access to Abortion Rights and for protecting democracy. The voters have made it clear they want their power and will to be restricted respected with his rejection of the Ballot Initiative. And it happened in ohio, a state that just elected j. D. Vance. So you know there was some partisan Line Crossing here as well. I cant wait to see how the data shapes out, but the number one takeaway here is that abortion is a winning issue, and i really need democrats to stay the course in 2024 and beyond, because this is what its going to turn out voters and keep them engaged. But not just democrats. Lets not forget, Ohio Republicans ended summer elections, then they brought them back after Learning Voters would decide on abortion three months from now. Should tonight be a red flag . Hey republicans, this strategy is failing . How many red flags can they get . We have set up how many flares, and theres a freaking pothole here and all kinds of markers and they go on and drop right into it. I think its fundamentally about voters are expressing they want to say so in our democracy. And every time they turn around, republicans want to take that away from them. Whether its gerrymandering, which they want to retain, which ohio did, even though the Supreme Court in ohio kept saying no, they retained gerrymandering in ohio. And so to me its just a fundamental example of republicans miss reading the public but also they know that their policies are not popular. So what do they do . When you know your policies arent possible popular, they try to circumvent the Election Process. I would also say, and going into something juanita just said, democrats need to watch this. And you and i had this conversation over and over again in 2022. It took democrats a long time before they stopped talking about 22 other issues and started focusing on the sake of our democracy and the freedoms, especially reproductive freedom with women. This is another signal to democrats. Do you know how to win these races . Here, well keep showing you how to win these races. The small d in democrat does stand for distracted. But not this case. Juanita, it is pretty bold to ask voters to willingly dilute their own power. What do you think about that . I think its part of the gop 12 punch. Because think about the wording and the framing of this ballot. It felt a little counter intuitive to vote no, but the reality is that was the correct vote there because that is what keeps the power with people. Not the state legislature, which we know fluctuates, but i would appreciate matt emphasizing the other part of the one two anytime when any many families are vacationing. I want to give a shout out to the organizers and the abortion Rights Groups on the ground who not only educated voters about this confusing Ballot Initiative and the fact that it was a surprise special election, but they turned them out and ridiculous rates. Were going to see a margin of 13 plus points, probably, when the votes are finalized, that shows the overwhelming support here. And i want to talk about the fact that it was ohio again because this tracks with what we have seen another Ballot Initiatives. Im talking about a red state like kansas and kentucky, purple streets like michigan, this is something that weve seen time and time again, voters saying yes, we want to protect the basic right to access, health care. Meanwhile the Republican Party is doubling down on criminalizing it and criminalizing women and pregnant people and physicians. I dont think they are heed any calls. Like matt said, its ends up how many flares . Its not going to change within this party. At this point they cant changed it. They have been advocating to end roe for decades. They have been criminalizing women and pregnant people across the country, they are still moving forward with harmful bands and theyre not going to stop. They could have any path to reversal, and meanwhile demographics can get to say were the ones fighting for democracy and protect everyones rights. You tour giving republicans all kinds of advice tonight, so matthew, maybe you can give ron desantis some help. Lets start with the chaos in his campaign. He just replaced his campaign manager. And were just a few weeks before the first gop president ial debate. Given your background, you are a former Republican Campaign strategist, what does that signal . Youve bounced your top guy a few weeks before the big game . It signals that he doesnt know what the fundamental problem is, which is he must have lost his mirror in his house. He no longer has a mirror, because thats the problem. This to me reminds me of a Restaurant Owner who was also the chef and everybody hates the chef and everybody hates the food and other customers responded. And you know what the solution is . Fire the waiters and thats two more advertising. The problem is the food and the chef. [laughter] you are away in . I agree. Look at the man in the mirror. Honestly, he has ruined this. Hes just fallen so far that i cant think of any framing or push or merged messaging that wouldve peeled to donors at this point, no less voters. He has plummeted in the polls in such a ridiculous fashion that it doesnt instill confidence in anyone. So now that he has laid off 40 of his original campaign staff, promised his former Campaign Chief to the her job was safe, only to pull out the rug from under her. Hes not looking at himself or any type of the blame and i dont think we can expect in the other direction for him to go except for continuing to flounder as he is. And so while he made the debate stage this time within the republican primary, im not sure hell make the next one of the one after that the way he is going. Well a comparison. The food sacks, the owners of jerk, no one likes him, so what do you do . You fire the waiters. That is a good move in the world of hospitality and politics. Juanita tolliver, matthew dowd, thank you both for being here. I appreciate it. When we come back, the Biden Campaign goes all in on bidenomics, but will it add up to a win in 2024 . The challenges ahead, and the big winds, potentially, when the 11th hour continues. The 11th hour continues. Rsv is in for a surprise. Meet arexvy. the first fdaapproved rsv vaccine. Arexvy is used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. Arexvy is proven to be over 82 effective in preventing lower Respiratory Disease from rsv and over 94 effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Rsv can be serious. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist about arexvy today. Rsv . Make it arexvy. Eat pretzels. Eat more pretzels. 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We are fighting to build a nation where every person, not just the wealthy or well connected, have the opportunity to thrive, and that, all my friends here, is called bidenomics. [applause] i do not. Next thing back to 2020, one when President Biden took office. We were still in the middle of a pandemic, our economy was basically on life support. Nadler will be her to a marriage in the just two years later he would be using the economy was a major part of a reelection bid. Thats for its 2023 and the white house is going all in, touting bidenomics to voters across this country. Well biden certainly has economic success to talk about, there are some headwinds on the horizon and still 15 months until election day. Justin moore i, professor of economics at the University Of Michigan joins us. Justin, there are wins. Weve got the inflation reduction act. Weve got the chips act. Weve got infrastructure. Unemployment is. No we are seeing inflation coming down, but Interest Rates are high. It is a big, complicated economy with all sorts of voters at different socioeconomic levels, and people are anxious. If you are President Biden, what are your biggest economic successes right now . Unemployment is at or near a 50year low. The inherited economy that was in a shambles because of the pandemic and because of the mishandling of the pandemic, theres one thing that causes economic anxiety, its that fear that you wont be able to put bread on the table next week, but you dont know where youre next paycheck is coming on, or you dont feel like you belong. That, its not just about people who would be without jobs. If the anxiety the rest of us would feel and currently dont, Little Things dont go well at work tomorrow we could lose our jobs and it would be terrible. Instead people realize they got lots of options. Theyre finding better jobs. Were getting pay raises. They feel great. So if im President Biden, i will just remind people about the fear that they felt four years ago or during the depth of the pandemic, and remind them that they dont feel that anymore. Thats a tough one, though. Telling people how they feel. Telling people to change how they feel. It is what it is. So like us through what the Biggest Challenges are ahead, because with a country of 300 plus million people, not everyone feels great. Its not great for everyone. One of the real challenges ahead . Honestly, i think the biggest challenge is telling people about [inaudible] justin . Justin . Im going to have to interrupt you. Do you know how much i care about this conversation, unfortunately we cannot hear you. Your audio is not working tonight, and i dont want to waste precious time. I want you to come back tomorrow, hopefully, because you know i always have time to talk economics. Im so sorry. But guess what, audience . That means we have got more time for kara. Coming up, two of the biggest names in social media, trey jabs online before join punches inperson. I cant believe like we were talking about this in person. Two of the most rich and powerful men in the world are going to get in a big old fist fight. Cara swisher helps us make sense of what is going on in the world of tech, when the 11th hour continues. Th hour continues. Safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when theyd arrive with a replacement we could trust. Thats service the way we want it. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Im javi, im 31, and im a fitness instructor. I saw myself in a photograph. And we were all smiling, and i looked closer, and i was like that thats what everybody sees . Im back, and i got botox® cosmetic. The lines were so prominent its all i saw in the photograph, so now when i take photos, and i see myself in photos, its its me, i just have fewer lines. 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Cleanup is a breeze just blend water with a drop of soap. Stand out even when youre accidentally twinning with our kaleidoscope of colors. Don■t be tardy for this sale head to blendjet. Com and order yours now. Inez, let me ask you, youre using head and shoulders, right . Only when i see flakes. Then i switch back to my regular shampoo you should use it every wash, otherwise the flakes will come back. Hes right, you know. Is that tiny troy . The ingredients in head and shoulders keep the microbes that cause flakes at bay. Microbes, really . Theyre always on your scalp. Little rascals. But good news, theres no itchiness, dryness or flakes down here i love tiny troy. Hes the best. Make every wash count little help, please. You know we like to keep a close eye on all the big moves in tech, even the ones that dont seem to make any sense. My dear friend kara swisher is here to give us her view. Editor at large of new york magazine, host of the podcast pivot, and the author of the new memoir, which are not even going to get to see until next march, but im going to show you this bat amazing cover, burn book, a tech love story. As i said, im so happy to see you. You look great, as always. Thank. You all right, talk to us. Elon elon musk as mark zuckerberg. First, i dont want to start with a cage match. Lets talk business. The tension between the two of them and business is only growing. It was a few weeks ago you were like threads, its here to take on the world, and ill tell you, we are signed up for it, but i feel like its losing a bit of its mantra. I dont think so. Its going slowly. We use regularly now, and i dont use twitter as much except to tweet elon and mark zuckerberg, thats pretty much my twitter experience right now. But i think least things take time to grow. Theres a lot of them. And as twitter, im not calling it acts, whatever they want to call it, get more experience we are going to see im not so sure anybody is going to prevail in some way. Why . Because it doesnt have to be a central place. A lot of think a lot of social media is dissipating and young people dont music. If you look at the numbers its all people our age, sorry to say. Oh. And its not a demographic thats younger. I watch my own kids, 18, 20, they dont use stuff like this. They dont need to declare themselves. But even a year ago, think about how twitter with all of its flaws a year ago were like a public utility. News broke, something was happening, you didnt turn on the Television Set for me, you quickly turned to twitter. Youve seen that change. I think a lot of people are finding other ways to communicate like instagram, of course, is doing really well, thats a metal property. So i do think there is going to be, i dont think any of them are big business. I think everyone thinks their big business. I dont either a big business. If you look at the revenues, even if threads is doing well, it would be an 8 to 12 Billion Dollar business, which is not big for facebook, which is a smaller part of facebooks experience. Instagram is so much bigger. Obviously there are other properties are bigger. Twitter is not very big. It has declined from five to maybe under two. Thats a small business. Are they doing anything to solve their, im going to call it revenue crisis. The Biggest Issue was advertisers. They brought in my former colleague, linda yaccarino, theyve changed the name to x, which seems bananas when you think of it as an internet property. All that is going to get you fasttracked to porn. Whats happening on that front . I havent heard a lot from advertisers about her. She is clearing her special to go to the cage match, thats what i know from her tweets recently. I dont think people feel that its a better platform than it has been. If you look at the ads were cleaning your were ear wax out or one with a swivel seat you could get in your car if youre an older person. I get pushed more content from tommy chong. From xinjiang. Im like, what . Im not even understanding. Whats in my algorithm. Everybody is getting. It clearly advertisers are not there. Hollywood should stay there with movies, is having problems, obviously, with a strike, but thats passed right now. The summer movie time is passed. So that Revenue Stream dries up. Im not seeing big ads for the people used to see there. Although i not saw many that ads on twitter because its not a good ad platform. Lets talk about this cage match. We talk about it like its an absurd idea. You have two of the most powerful businessmen, they control huge conduits for news and information. Possibly about to get in a big old fist fight. Yes. What does this tell us about the State Of The World . That its being run by adult toddlers, i guess. But they have to have a slap fast, a sweaty slap fast, where they have to grab each other in various northern regions of their body. I dont know. I dont understand it, and i think its sad and pathetic really. If youre on the board of either of these companies, if youre a lender to twitter, now x, are you feeling proud of this . Think about the scrutiny, where your average fortune 500 ceo is under. What theyre allowed to do, what theyre allowed to say. I texted some of the Board Members and i said i really hope you get sued for this because this is kind of ridiculous. And i get, look, mark likes to do this. Im very happy that is hes gotten in shape, he wasnt in the best of shape before. He was a skinny guy. He loves it. He obviously has a great enthusiasm for it. Thats a great thing. So . What does he have to do it this way . I think it brings him down, actually, to be doing this with elon, who would do just about anything. Hes ahead of yunnan in social media, at least. Hes sort of, matter is getting revived a bit, theyre not quite on the canvas as much as they were in iran has sort of become the new mark zuckerberg, essentially, this year. So hes now going to grapple with him in a sweaty manner . Really, theyre raising money, great, good for them. But they could just peter thiel, who you know where all, Rebecca Mercer reportedly throwing your money behind another than Tucker Carlson and his fledgling media company. What do you know about this . I dont know about that. That makes sense to me. They did it before. They did it with bannon and others. So hes probably the most important conservative media person. It makes perfect sense. If you see someone like ben shapiro or some of the others on the right doing really well with their media properties, it would make sense to do so. I wouldnt do it, but im not surprised. This almost reminds me of, that the Jason Aldine Song is really just big business figuring out how do we monetize the maga base. Thats all came out in may, and you know who noticed it, a grand total of no one. Come july there like we need to make a video, lets make it just provocative enough, was just enough dog whistles in offensive enough, to nail that maga base, and it shoots to number one. When will people figure out, they are playing you . The first line of my book is, turns out it was capitalism after all. So they said they were gonna change the world, they just want to make bucks. Same thing with the maga people. They want to make bucks off people. Thats the way it goes. I want to talk about a. I. Its what obviously everyone is talking about. People are excited about it. Theyre afraid of it. What is your current view of it, especially as it relates to workers . Because were in a moment where it seems like every other industry is facing labor issues, potential strikes, and maybe big business is sitting back saying, maybe labor doesnt have the power it once did with a eye right around the corner. I think they are saying that everyone is looking for efficiency. The year of efficiency, as a coburg called, it and i think a lot of businesses are doing that. I did a panel this weekend at the book festival, and i met geraldine brooks, rebecca mckay, jacob weisberg, and we were talking about the impact on rioters. But you could pick anybody like the impact on, lawyers on doctors, and whats interesting about this is the impact on white collar workers more than anybody else with the a. I. Revolution. Because its about words and text or knowledge. And so they are becoming panicked. Well they didnt mind when mechanized firming went into place and they got four dollar strawberries. They dont mind when amazon prime delivered for free and automated warehouses. But now that it is coming for them, they are very concerned about the situation. It is what it is. What is your feeling about a . I im worried about some of the more problematic things, like Killer Robots and things like that. I think there should be a Global Initiative around what we can to do just like we do with nuclear weapons, like we do with cloning and things like that, for one. And should be a Global Initiative and what shouldnt be allowed to be made. I think there is going to be a boom in all kinds of startups. I think thats exciting. And Congress Needs to enter the picture and start to create guardrails before it gets out of hand, even if its not perfect. And they are. Im meeting with a lot of people from the white house, to senators, about whats going to happen. They should begin to anticipate what could happen and then adjust to allow the innovation to happen here in this country as opposed to other countries like china where its used for surveillance. It certainly could be here. But jobs are going to change no matter how you slice it. You have to figure out where you fit in in terms of creativity or things like that. But everyone is talking about. It i got my Haircut Today and i turn to my hairdresser and i said you will not be affected by a. I. , because a i cant do that yet. Not if you want to look as good as kara. Great to see. You as always, a pleasure. Look at that book cover again. Start saving up. Everybody you need to give a gift next summer. Its not fire. Coming up, the u. S. Economy is running on none other than girl power, and it is all thanks to these three icons, when the 11th hour continues. Hour continues. Takes you off course. Put it in check with rinvoq, a oncedaily pill. When i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid Symptom Relief and helped Leave Bathroom urgency behind. Check. When uc tried to slow me down. I got lasting, steroidfree remission with rinvoq. Check. And when uc caused Damage Rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. Check. Rapid Symptom Relief. Lasting steroidfree remission. And the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. Check, check, and check. 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Five months, 50 plus shows, three and a half hours long. Your host this evening, my name is taylor. Swift as taylor swift wraps up the first leg of her heiress tour, fans are going to Great Lengths to be. Here have you ever devoted so much time and money to seeing artist before . Now. Just taylor. Only taylor. One survey shows the average swiftie spends 1300 dollars on concentrated expenses, travel, tickets, accessories, and that means the era tour could generate Six Billion Dollars in Consumer Spending in the u. S. Alone. What would you compare us with media to . The beatles come to mind. Queen comes to mind, former spending perspective. I think its incomparable. Its definitely girls running the world this summer. We ghouls rule the world the cause of beyonces renaissance to rutgers fees to go up in sweden. And barbie had a great season also being the first film directed by a woman to make over billion dollars. Drying fans of all ages and take a wild guess here, youre the dad . Its me. I am the dad. Well go global, but with new dates in the fall, its not the end of an era just yet. Emily ankara, nbc news, los angeles. And it is not just about making big money. Taylor and beyonce are also donating to local charities throughout their entire tours. That is some serious girl power right there. Take note, boys. And on that note, i wish you a very good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. Ill see you at the end of tomorrow. Tomorrow imagine for one second what a speech