Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning 20240704

That, in fact, donald trump did attempt to hold up a constitutional proceeding. Yeah. He admitted that last week. Yesterday, he admitted that he violated the constitution of the United States. Just a technical violation of the United States constitution. Pretty bizarre. He violated the constitution. I mean, the admissions keep rolling. Yeah. Keep him was this a full ginsberg . He was on a lot of the sunday shows trying to own the narrative. Meanwhile, the former president himself spent the weekend raging on social media, and this could get interesting, with posts that could defy the judges orders. Remember the directions the judge gave him at his arraignment . Well get legal analysis on that new development. Also ahead, one of trumps allies in the senate makes light of the humiliating nature of his relationship with the former president. Plus, republican senator Tommy Tuberville has held up crucial Military Promotions since february over the pentagons abortion policy. His Unprecedented Campaign has the pentagon again warning about potential disruptions to troop readiness and military relationships. That guy because of the Republican Senate and the radicalism of Tommy Tuberville thats being, you know, allowed by the rest of the republicans, the United States marine corps doesnt have a commandant for the first time in 150 years. Now, the army is without a leader, again, because of the radicalism of republicans in the United States senate. Its something we dont usually say. Its usually the house. But theyre sitting back, letting Tommy Tuberville do this, and just strip the leadership of the United States military. Which i guess follows with what republicans in the house have been doing, where theyve been calling the chairman of the joint chiefs, i dont know, a pig or just attacking them constantly. So this war against the United States military by republicans continues. Its a really interesting time for the country. Well, its a dangerous time. I would agree with that. In so many ways. Also, when my former party declares war against the readiness of the United States military, its a real problem. Based on, again, these social issues. Debate the social issues. Thats fine. Have the debate. But, for god sake, dont stand in the way of the readiness of the United States armed forces, which is what theyre doing. With it, we have the host of way too early, White House Bureau chief at politico, Jonathan Lemire. Special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay is back with us. Katty is back. Yay. And editor for politico, sam stein is back. Sam is back. Always back. And former cia official Chuck Rosenberg. Good to have you all with us. We start with a flurry of legal action in the latest indictment of donald trump, just days after being formally charged for his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 Election Results. The former president spent the weekend testing the limits of the judge assigned to the case. During thursdays arraignment, the Magistrate Judge warned trump against interfering in the case, telling him that his bond could be revoked if he tried to influence a juror, threaten or bribe a witness, or retaliate against anyone giving information to prosecutors. Despite telling the judge he understood her warning, just one day later, the former president posted on his social media site, quote, if you go after me, im coming after you. That message set off alarm bells within the Justice Department, where special counsel jack smith quickly asked a judge to impose a protective order in the case, to block donald trump from Sharing Evidence turned over to his defense team on social media. The dojs request stated, quote, if the defendant were to begin issues public posts using details, or, for example, grand jury transcripts, obtained in discovery here, it could have a harmful Chilling Effect on witnesses or adversely affect the Fair Administration of justice in this case. In response, judge Tanya Chutkan gave trumps legal team until 5 00 this afternoon to respond to the dojs request. The former president s lawyers then, in turn, asked for a threeday extension. Here we go. Something that the Justice Department balked at. In a response, smith wrote, rather than spend time complying with the courts order, the defendant drafted a filing as to why he did not have time to review and consider the fivepage proposed protective order. The judge concurred with prosecutors and shot down trumps request to have todays deadline pushed back. While all this was going on, the former president continued to go after those involved in the case over the weekend, despite being warned not to do so. His targets included former Vice President mike pence, who is a potential witness for prosecutors, also, judge chutkan herself and, of course, jack smith, both on social media and during a speech in alabama. Deranged jack smith. Doesnt he look deranged . See the picture with the purple robe . He is a deranged human being. We are getting stronger by the day. Somebody said, you should treat him nicer. Maybe hed be nice. Let me tell ya, this guy is a lost soul, bad guy. Chuck rosenberg, i go back to everything ive ever seen regarding proceedings before federal judges in federal courts. You know, we talk about equal justice under the law. Yes, donald trump has actually been indicted for trying to overthrow a president ial election, but, chuck, again, in my limited experience, you know, being around this a good bit, ive just never known of a federal judge that would allow a defendant to publicly threaten a prosecutor, stir up Death Threats against a prosecutor, let alone question the integrity of the court itself, the federal judge itself. Im wondering, equal justice under the law, are we carving out a special exception for donald trump here if his bail is not revoked . I hope not, joe, and i dont think so. I think the judge is handling this properly so far. Shes being patient and firm and laying down clear rules. In other words, for instance, minor point, she didnt give mr. Trumps lawyers more time to argue a motion. Shes requiring the response today. Judges have done this. Theyre patient to a point, then theyre no longer patient. This is reason short of number 37, 38, 39 why you dont want to be mr. Trumps lawyers. Because youre forced over and over again to say things that are nonsense and to take positions in court that are frivolous. And a little contexthelpful. When the government is asking for a protective order, that is not an unusual act. The government is about to provide reams of information and data, some of it quite sensitive to the defense team as part of the discovery process. And if the defense misuses that stuff, if mr. Trump starts posting the names of witnesses and what they say on social media, there are real consequences to that. Not just that witnesses can be intimidated or harassed or threatened but potentially worse. I think the judge is handling this appropriately, and if you push her too far, there will be consequences for mr. Trump and his lawyers, as there ought to be. Well, i mean, there certainly should be, sam stein, but you have a Prosecutor Being threatened by donald trump online and in a speech. Hes called deranged, im coming after you. He calls the federal judge bias. He attacks a witness in the case, trying to intimidate the witness. Listen, let me help everybody thats involved in this case if they cant figure it out. Donald trump was trying to get the names or people around donald trump were trying to get the names of fbi agents out that searched his maralago home. Desperately trying to get them out so they would be threatened. Same thing will happen here. They give donald trump information, maybe he doesnt post it on social media, but he gives it to steve bannon or roger stone or Somebody Else, and they put the names out. It seems to me that this is going to have to be a tough protective order, and donald trump is going to have to be told he is going to jail if the terms are, you know bail is revoked if the terms are violated. We all know terms are going to be violated. Yeah, chuck obviously knows better than me. Hes more seasoned in this field than i am. I do have to imagine that we are in unique circumstances here. Its probably unprecedented that a highprofile defendant in this case makes such overt threats against the prosecutor in such a public forum. You know, i think in any other case, if a client did Something Like this, you would see a harsh rebuke from the judge. Patience is helpful in the lonn. But im with you, its hard to see how this is tenable at all. Look, if you put aside the legal stuff and look at the political stuff, trump, almost the entire reason for his campaign at this juncture is he is going to fight his prosecution. He is running on the platform that he is being unfairly persecuted and unfairly prosecuted. He has to be out there publicly railing against jack smith, railing against mike pence, who almost undoubtedly will be a witness in this trial, as trumps own lawyer said he wants to call mike pence as a witness. It is compelling him, if not for his personality, compelling him to take these steps that are incredibly radical for a defendant to take. It is only a matter of time before the judge has to call his bluff. This isnt going to stop. He isnt going to rein it in, because he has to campaign with this posture. Once the judge calls his bluff, who knows what the consequences of that are politically speaking. Katty, the silence has been deafening, not only from Wall Street Journal Editorial Page, the silence has been deafening from the United States senate, United States house. The head of their party, the guy most like to be the nominee, has threatened a federal prosecutor. Hes said, im coming after you. Hes gone full mobster here. Yet, no criticism from republicans in the house, republicans in the senate, little from the republicans on the campaign trail. Let me say it again. He has threatened a federal prosecutor, and it seems the only thing republicans know how to do is fall more meekly in line with him, like Lindsey Graham this past week. Oh, my gosh, well show that. Fall in line behind a guy who is behaving like a mobster and threatening a federal prosecutor. Yeah, because they know who the next nominee of the Republican Party is likely to be, and it is likely to be donald trump. They run scared not jump of donald trump but of Donald Trumps supporters and whatever the former president does in this calcified political atmosphere, they dont want to cross him. I mean, you know, he also when he says that mike pence has gone to the dark side, thats a signal, too. Wow. The best selling tshirt in trump memorabilia stores is the one with mike pence on the gallows, saying, mike pence is a traitor. He is putting the former Vice President further at risk with that language, as well. I mean, the reality is that donald trump is not any defendant. He will be treated, to some extent, differently. You know, when he tries to delay and delay and delay, most likely, this court, this judge will speed up the process to try to make sure that they see his appeals for delay quicker than perhaps Somebody Elses. That could count against him. But there will be ways he is treated differently. He cant go on carrying on after the judge has said, you have to watch what you say, with the kind of language he used over the course of this weekend. Speaking of that language, and well show you Lindsey Graham, it is truly, if it is possible, a new low. It is the most subversive, unbelievable not subversive. Submissive. Thats the word, submissive openly. Well get to it in a second. Chuck, i have a question for you. You know, a comment like, im coming for you if youre coming after me or whatever is kind of thrown out there, but what about when he names people, like mike pence, who, you know, are part of this and are testifying potentially, isnt that more of something that a judge could actually rebuke him for . Or even, like, revoke his bail. If you start going flatly against, overtly against what the judge has told him to do. Yeah, absolutely, mika. Good question. A judge could take steps. Let me add something to that. A prosecutor could take steps. Threatening witnesses, harassing witnesses, intimidating witnesses is a separate federal crime. You saw that the smith team had no reluctance to supersede its indictment in the Southern District of florida. So could that happen here . Sure. If mr. Trump continues to target witnesses, right, for intimidation and harassment, he is committing another crime post indictment. And if the government decides the conduct is serious enough and they can prove his corrupt intent, they could charge him with that, too. I dont think thats off the table. It might be completely appropriate. You know, theres only so much a judge can do. Hes running for president. Hes going to talk, whether we like it or not, he is going to continue to talk and post. What he talks about and what he posts about could have serious legal consequences. Either, as you point out, mika, Bail Revocation, which is a possibility, and i dont think you want to test this judge on that too many times. No. Or if he continues to commit federal crimes, more federal charges. When he said he wrecked e. Jean carroll, he continued to defame her, so there is another lawsuit. Maybe he thinks he is immune. Maybe its a delay tactic. If you throw on so many charges, does it delay it down the road . I dont know. Again, its just again, its not good news. As chuck said, this is why you dont represent donald trump. He is going to humiliate you as a lawyer. He is going to make you say things that are frivolous defenses, that are just stupid, and you are going to be defending a guy who talks and threatens like a mobster. Republicans should be standing up to this. You have members in the senate with three, four more years in office, yet they continue to grovel while the leader of their party is threatening federal prosecutors and really undermining the judicial system of the United States of america. Just like they tried to undermine american democracy leading up to january 6th. Heres the head of the class for humiliating themselves. After january 6th, he said he had enough and then got intimidated and actually grovelled more, Lindsey Graham. This is lindsey at a Republican Party dinner saturday in his home state. Wow. People ask, what happened with you and trump . I said, well, he beat me like a drum, and i acknowledged that he did. He sort of liked hearing that, but we found something in common. Ive come to like him, and he likes him and that gets us through 18 holes of golf. One thing i can tell you, you better not screw with this guy or youll regret it. I just Jonathan Lemire, ive got to say, i dont know how you do that. Its not in me, never was. I dont think its in most people. I dont i guess the key questions sort of joking . I keep asking is, whats worth that . I can tell you, having a congressional pin is not. In fact, i dont think anything is worth humiliating yourself the way lindsey does. We can expand this. Donald trump threatened a federal prosecutor saying, im coming after you, calling him deranged on stage. No doubt knowing that this was going to amp up the number of Death Threats that jack smith had. Yet, republicans in the house and the senate sit meekly by, quietly by, and continue to act like this is normal. Its Worth Remembering donald trump gave out Lindsey Grahams personal cell phone number, and graham was okay with that and got over it. Just a few weeks ago, trump held a rally in south carolina. Lindsey graham was booed. Graham knows he has work to do to stay in the good graces of the trump voting base, who make up, for now, the lions share of the Republican Voters, which graham needs when it is time for reelection again. Hes not one to break with trump any time soon. Youre right, it is pure silence from republicans. The party that used to be known as that of Law And Order. The gop would defend lawsuit. Lawsuit. Trump has a way of saying or tweeting things that is just vague enough that people can read into it as they want, and that allows him to sort of try to explain it away. Maybe even the, the you go after me, im coming after you line can fall into that. His campaign said, no, he is tucking about rhinos. He clearly wasnt. Perhaps thats enough for court. But the other statements about pence, about the judge, about jack smith, those are things that are going to be a real issue. Were going to learn more at 5 00 today. There is going to be a deadline, a Court Appearance, and well figure out what this judge is going to do for a man that is a defendant, running for the white house, and trying to be antagonistic for prosecutors. Chuck rosenberg, your thoughts on this . Joe, i want to go to something you said earlier, how mr. Trump continually puts his lawyers in a position where theyre saying things that make absolutely no sense. Theyre just objectly frivolous. Mr. Lauro, a defense lawyer for trump, said plans were aspirational. He didnt violate the law, he perhaps just aspired to violate the law. I mean, its another example of nonsense. Let me illustrate it in the following way. I might aspire to rob a bank. I might aspire to go in and come out with bags of money. Once i step into the bank, whether i succeed or not, i pull out a gun and demand cash from the tellers, im a bank robber. Even if i didnt fulfill all my childhood dreams and aspirations of leaving with their dough, im a bank robber. So if you want to defend this guy, you have to say things that are silly. Its one thing to say things that are silly on television. That happens. Its quite another thing to say things that are silly in court, in front of a judge and in front of a jury. So i know people worry that there are going to be no consequences for his conduct and for his rhetoric. I believe there will be. Not yet, not here, but in court. Chuck, sam, you can respond after katty, if you will. Wed hear people like Rudy Giuliani and others saying the most outrageous things after january 6th and actually even before, when they were trying to overthrow the american president ial election. We were like, how do they get away with that . Where are they getting away with that . They did. It appears, lets keep our eyes on georgia, it appears that Rudy Giuliani and others will ultimately pay the price for this. Go down the list. The attorneys appear to be coconspirators in this latest indictment. You think its serve as a warning for Donald Trumps lawyers or potential lawyers. Look at the politicians you ran, mimicking what donald trump said or saying the kind of things they knew that donald trump wanted them to say about the 2020 election. A whole slew of them in the last cycle didnt get elected, right . If its not in the courts where there is retribution, then in the public, there is also retribution. One of the safety nets we have is the right to vote people out of office. That happened with Secretary Of State after Secretary Of State who donald trump wanted to put in place so he could influence the 2024 election. The voters said, no, we dont want those people. In this case, you know, they could end up in the legal jeopardy themselves. So there does seem to be you know, the process seems to be working. The problem will be next year on the timetable, how the dates slash. Whether we get to sentencing dates and were in waters that could be, you know, potentially violent. I mean, this is the concern, that all of this could lead to so much tension, and the kinds of language that donald trump has been using over this weekend could promote more of the kind of violence we saw on january 6th. The only thing i would add to that, i do think it does sort itself out, and katty is right, we saw a number of election deniers in the 2022 elections who faceplanted, frankly. That said, there is a pretty hefty slice of our elected officials who do not have to worry about sort of centrist, populous voting population. Take the Lindsey Graham clip. Hes not worried about independent voters so much as getting through a republican primary. He is still, to this day, getting heckled and jeered for the moments he was speaking against donald trump. Look at kentucky, one of the biggest political weekend in kentucky, heckled and jeered. He is publicly opposed to trump for what happened on january 6th. Tommy tuberville, to tie it in a bow, because thats what im here to do, Tommy Tuberville is being boosted by a chunk of the base for his decision to hold up all these army militarypolicy, policy that allows you to travel for abortion service. There are different structures in different situations. To this day, i still believe 40 of the party is very much with trump and they create an Incentive Structure that forces republican politicians to act in ways they probably know fundamentally are a little bit off. And the problem is, theyre not i dont think its that theyre not smart enough. Most of these people come from deep red states or deep red districts. They just dont give a damn about the party. Republicans lose in 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23. Thats not tuberville. He thinks, ill keep being reelected in alabama. Meanwhile, swing voters, independent voters, republicans in suburbs are going, wait a second, republicans are debating abortion in a military bill, and theyre damaging readiness . And theyre keeping the United States marines from having a commandant for the first time in 150 years because theyre debating over abortion . Now, theyre stopping the army from having a leader for the first time in a really long time because of a debate over abortion . We should be worried about the chinese, worried about the russians. We should be worried about iran. We should be worried about north korea. We should be worried about readiness and debate military issues in the military bills, and debate abortion elsewhere. Yeah, so maybe that wont hurt Tommy Tuberville in the reddest of the red states. Itll just damage the United States military. Itll damage our readiness. Itll damage the United States marines because of the Tommy Tuberville. Damage the United States army because of Tommy Tuberville. But he doesnt care. The most extreme members of his party in alabama, they dont care. Who doesnt care . Swing voters. Theyre going to lose again. Its the long game. Yeah, people in the Republican Party, joe, the republicans are under attack. No, im helping you win an election. You were incapable of winning elections. Theyll never hear you. You look at other people but never your own. You dont have the courage or the intelligence to write your path. You keep going toward a cliff with people like Tommy Tuberville damaging the United States marines. Wow. Katty, before we go to break. Quick turn. Breaking news from the bbc, england is through at the world cup quarterfinals after beating nigeria on penalty kicks, despite lauren james being sent off for a standing. Ive been sent off for a standing myself at times, and its not fun. But england is through. Thats great. Well talk about the u. S. , but congratulations on that. Thank you. The lionesses. Go, lionesses former u. S. Attorney Chuck Rosenberg, thank you for being on this morning. Well see you again soon, we hope. Ahead on morning joe, another sign President Biden is tying his name to a Strong Economy and his accomplishments. What the white house is doing to remind voters of the benefits of the landmark infrastructure bill. Plus, a Special Election in ohio tomorrow could have a major impact on the issue of abortion in the state, and serve as a test case for the issue across the country. Well explain. Also ahead, israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu appears to be walking back some of his original plans to overhaul the countrys justice system. Again. What he is saying about those changes. And a wild scene on the mlb base path over the weekend, that saw a Baseball Game turn into a prized fight. Anderson is down anderson is down youre watching morning joe. Anderson is down well be right back. With fastsigns, create striking custom visuals that inspire pride districtwide. Fastsigns. Make your statement. Ive struggled with generalized Myasthenia Gravis. But the picture started changing when i started on vyvgart. Vyvgart is for adults with generalized Myasthenia Gravis who are antiachr antibody positive. 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Waiting on the signal. Wow. Sweden wins. That was a goal. Wow, the u. S. Womens National Team has been knocked out of the world cup following a goalless 90 minutes plus extra time. The u. S. Bid to win an unprecedented third consecutive title ended yesterday on penalty kicks. Megan rapinoe, sophia smith and kelley ohara missed with kicks from the penalty spot before sweden converted to clinch the shootout, 54. It is the earliest exit in tournament history for the u. S. Women. Only the teams second Penalty Shootout Defeat on the world cup stage. The u. S. Women also ended the tournament on a 238minute scoring drought, their longest in womens world cup history. Hard to watch. I will say, Jonathan Lemire, obviously, this is a team and a program that has nothing to hang their heads about. I mean, two world cup wins in a row. Just an extraordinary achievement. Oh, a team that will be forever remembered with such gratitude here in the United States. Two cups in a row. This was always seen as a bit of a Transition Tournament for them. Its the last run for the alex morgans and morgan rapinoes, while they have new talent coming. Heartbreaking defeat. The final goal, that final goal, the replay shows, it was over by about a millimeter. They couldnt have lost by a smaller margin. Oh just heartbreaking way to go out. That hurts. Yeah, it really does. I couldnt believe that was a goal, but also a lot of other news. Obviously, were going to stop watching baseball, Jonathan Lemire. Same exact thing that happened last year after the Trade Deadline, where we didnt pick anybody up. The team just deflated. We went from being the best team since the allstar break to being the worst, just like that, right after the break. First of all, i saw mika clap when you announced you werent going to watch baseball anymore, joe. Im sorry. Yeah, i had the great misfortune of being at fenway park. Great seats, great view, beautiful weather. They were crushed, 131. Swept by the bluejays. To your point, this is the second straight deadline when the team seemed they were going on a run. They didnt get reinforcements. The General Manager is on the hot seat. Theyre fading and fading back. Yeah. So, you know, sam, things have been a little ugly at politico since sam stein arrived. Well. Its true. If you want to know how it looks inside the newsroom, lets look at what happened in the white sox and guardians game a couple night ago. Roll the tape. Oh, dear. Oh here come the benches. Off we go. It started with anderson and ramirez, swings being taken, kopeck had to hold it back. Everybody is spilling out here in cleveland. Here it comes. A swing and a smash to first. Down the right field line. Kicks into the corner. Ro ramirez on his way to second. Safe and in to score is jimenez. Another household double. Anderson is squares off. Theyre fighting theyre swinging. Down goes anderson down goes anderson wow. That escalated. What happened . That escalated quickly. Sam stein, of course, the famed, Down Goes Frazier, Down Goes Frazier call. I mean, first of all, it was a ridiculous fight. Its like, why . Why . Why did the fight even begin . But we wont play it because itll take the entire four hours. It was the longest Baseball Fight ive ever seen. It would not stop. Those guys, theyre just pushing each other. You know, anderson did walk into a punch. He did not play yesterday after taking on the role of joe frazier by actually walking into ramirezs right hook there. Just walked right into it. My gosh. Yeah. He was fine. It was epic. First thing, i watched it, like, 20 times. Still am not entirely clear why they were fighting. No one has really explained what it was about. I know. Second, it was an incredible right hook. Yes, he walked into it, but he was concussed by it, which explains why he didnt play. Youre right, this is reminiscent of what politico is these days. Me and lemire at the water cooler. Unfortunately, im anderson in the situation. Lemire throws hay makers at me. Down goes stein down goes stein i mean, there has been theres some speculation there, a hard tag the night before that anderson slapped a guardian in the face. Come on. Thats the best story anyone has given. There is a history of bad blood here, two division rivals. The sox are out of the race. The guardians are battling for a playoff but theyre going to lose their best player for ten or so games. That was the best fight not involving joe kelly. Wilder than pedro versus zimmer . We dont talk about that. Thats on the forbidden list. Sorry. That is a moment of shame we dont bring up. Simone biles is a champion once again. The fourtime olympic Gold Medalist returned to gymnastics and competition at the u. S. Classic outside of chicago yesterday and won the allaround balance beam and floor titles. She had the highest score on vault. Biles return follows a twoyear hiatus after she bowed out of the Tokyo Olympic games due to Mental Health issues. This is amazing on so many levels. Its such an incredible message. That sometimes you can take the long play. You can take time out. You can come back, and you can be better than ever. Yeah. I love it. Katty, its great. Its a great message, isnt it, katty kay . Yeah, i mean, you know, she did what she needed to do. She was open about it. She was public about it. Yes. She was brave about taking that time off. You know what it is like, mika, when youre atop of your game, in your career and you think, my god, i cant possibly leave. Ill never come back. Ill be irrelevant. She did what she needed to do and came back again. It was a great performance. Kudos to her and to all of the younger women who are watching her. Lets hope theyre taking great messages from that, as well. By the way, on the lionesses, i was looking at the game in the break. Nigeria played really, really well just as the u. S. Played really, really well yesterday. I mean, this game was upon on penalties. Yesterdays game was upon on penalties. Penalties can go either way. Luck was on our side, not the u. S. Side yesterday. But both the u. S. And nigeria were formidable teams in those matches. Yeah. Simone biles, seems like a new chapter for know your value in the Confidence Code. It is important. For women, it is a long runway. There are lots of reasons we take a sidestep or a step back and then a step forward. There are realistic reasons. You know what . It doesnt mean its the end of your career. In fact, i think sometimes making those steps can actually help you in the long run. Its important to send that message to women. They always feel like they have to power through everything. Right. Katty, as far as the Confidence Code goes, its having the confidence to step away. To do that. You do something hard, and guess what . It gives you more confidence. Thats how we grow our confidence, by going outside our comfort zone. I imagine for simone, when she took the break and was public with her Mental Health challenges, that wasnt easy. It is not easy for anyone to talk about, but you do it, get through it, and look what the result is in terms of confidence and value. Yup. She was criticized at the time, just for the record. This is a really great message. Coming up, new reporting from cnbc. Despite sanctions, u. S. Advanced technology is still finding its way into the hands of russian military. The equipment being used and how it got there. What the investigation uncovered, next on morning joe. The virus that causes shingles is sleeping. In 99 of people over 50. Its lying dormant, waiting. And could reactivate. Shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. And it could wake at any time. Think youre not at risk for shingles . Its time to wake up. Because shingles could wake up in you. 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Make your statement. 48 past the hour. The United States dispatched four warships and a recon plane last week in response to another episode in international waters. 11 russians and chinese ships approached alaskas Aleutian Islands in what is believed by experts to be the largest flotilla yet to approach u. S. Waters. This is according to the Wall Street Journal. The ships never crossed into u. S. Waters and were shadowed by four u. S. Destroyers and a plane as they approached. In its reporting, the journal cites u. S. Northern command as saying the movement was, quote, not considered a threat. However, its the latest International Incident in a series of standoffs between the u. S. And either china or russia, in this case both, amid rising tensions in the pacific and also russias war in ukraine. From the beginning of the war on ukraine, russia has imported much of the weaponry and technology its used in its assault on the wartorn nation from ammunition provided by north korea to iranianmade drones. Russia continues to try and find all the help it can get. And now, Exclusive Reporting from cnbc detailing how Western Microchips used to power smartphones and laptops are entering russia and helping to fuel its military arsenal. Lets bring in cnbcs Karen Gilchrist who joins us live from london with more on this. What more can you tell us . Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. Youre absolutely right there. Ive been investigating mounting evidence that russia is continuing to obtain u. S. Microclips and other advanced western technologies for use in the military. These are not the types of Military Hardware you would expect. These are the technologies typically found in our phones and laptops. Theyre dualuse items, meaning they have military and civilian purposes. Theyre also being repurposed into drones and armored vehicles. Of 58 pieces of Critical Military equipment belonging to ukraine and found on the battlefield in ukraine sorry, belonging to russia and found on the battlefield in ukraine, it was found to have more than 1,000 foreign components, primarily western semiconductors. Now, i spoke to an analyst from the Peterson Institute to find out a little bit more about where the technologies are coming from. Lets take a look. Out of the critical components, we see twothirds of the producers being headquarters in the u. S. The companies themselves should have the infrastructure to be able to track it and comply with controls. If we have certain moral values or National Security objectives, we cannot be giving with one hand and giving to russia with the other. We cant be giving billion dollars in support to ukraine while being happy our companies are producing Military Equipment for russia. We can see that, the vast majority of the goods belong to u. S. Headquarters companies, with others coming from germany and japan. Now, having reached out to some of these Companies Whose goods were found on the battlefield, many say theyve ceased operations in russia and no longer supply there. But they need to do more. New Sanctions Packages from the eu announced in june are looking at new measures to sort of stymie the sanctions and make sure entities operating from these countries cannot supply russia. Karen, i remember that story back in spring over a house in north london, a tiny, semidetached house being used to sanctions bust, as well, the same sorts of things, computers and telephone chips, that sort of thing. I mean, whats frustrated american policymakers from the beginning, and western policymakers, is why the sanctions havent worked better against russia, why the Russian Company hasnt been brought to its knees in a way that would stop putin from being able to fund the war. Is this part of that . If we shut the loophole, would it have more of an impact on the russian economy and his ability to have the war machine . Absolutely. If we could do more to clamp down on these goods entering the country, so if companies are able to do more to clean up their Supply Chains and make sure they know who their end clients are. Also, some analysts im speaking to are saying, we have to shut down all dualuse items from entering russia, even if it is at the loss of the russian consumer. Ultimately, it is very, very hard to document where these goods end up. If were allowing certain ones to enter, but then we realize they can be repurposed in these nefarious ways, maybe we need to cut it off all together. Cnbc london correspondent Karen Gilchrist, thank you very much for coming on with your reporting this morning. Thank you. Still ahead on morning joe, a look at some of the stories making The Front Page headlines across the country, including federal prosecutors now going after billions of dollars lost in pandemic aid fraud. Plus, some of Donald Trumps top aides could end up as witnesses in one of his many upcoming trials. What it means for the former president s 2024 campaign, ahead on morning joe. Im saving with liberty mutual, mom. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. You could save 700 dollars just by switching. Ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. On the top of the pile oh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Pensive Music Footsteps Crunching Pensive Music Birds Tweeting Pensive Music Broom Sweeping [narrator] one in five Children Worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food. No family dinners, no special treats, no full bellies. All around the world, parents are struggling to feed their children. 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And now thanks to special government grants, every dollar you give before December 31st can multiply up to 10 times the impact. That means more food, water, medicine and help for kids around the world. Youll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. Childhood without food is unimaginable. Get fed up. Call us now or visit getfedupnow. Org today. A few minutes before the top of the hour. The Biden Administration is doing more to show voters which projects are a result of President Bidens bipartisan Infrastructure Law. Some Construction Sites now have signs which actually say that. It seems to be part of a push to stop republicans from taking credit for projects that they did not vote for. One example from late june was alabama senator Tommy Tuberville posting on social media that his state was receiving crucial funds for broadband access. But, but the thing is. He voted against it. Thats correct. He voted if he says it is vital to the success of our worlds and entire communitys economy, why would he vote against that . No clue. Why would he promote something he tried to kill politically . Mmhmm. Huh. Thats the way he rolls, i guess there. President joe biden trolled him online later that day, posting, see you at the groundbreaking. Jonathan lemire, this happens time and again. Youve got republicans who vote against bills, then they take credit for bills they tried to kill. Yeah, and its something that, frankly, deeply and personally irritates this president , who has been known to carry around a list in his pocket, which he brings out at speeches, which have an accounting of republicans who voted against something and then try to take credit for. Those signs are interesting because theyve been up for a while, that says this project is funded by the bipartisan Infrastructure Law. They added some words, President Bidens bipartisan Infrastructure Law. They want the common, and there is an election on the horizon. As we know, this is a white house that has been struggling to get the credit it thinks it deserves for solid economic markers. Polls suggest Americans Still dont feel great about it. This is a small way theyre trying to change that. The president Heads On The Road today for a threeday Western Swing, where he is going to talk about the accomplishments done by the inflation reduction act, and hell talk about veterans health, which is something deeply personal to him. His son beau biden fell ill soon after returning from iraq. Among the states on his itinerary, arizona, one of the true battlegrounds next time around. Expect the president to be there a lot between now and next november. There you go. Of course thank you, jonathan, for that reporting. Sam, it is, of course, we remember back to donald trump making sure that his name showed up on those covid relief checks. Yeah, he trump had his signature on the covid relief checks. It was interesting at the time, you know, but it does i would guess it underscores the limitations of this type of thing. Voters may see you provided them a financial benefit. They can see you got Infrastructure Project passed in their district. Doesnt mean theyre necessarily going to reward you. Lemire is right, the white house has really struggled with this stuff. They passed a huge amount of stim stimulus, the Biden Administration did early on, the stimulus. They were not going to repeat the missteps of the obama years, where then president obama passed his own stimulus, did not run around taking credit for it, a lot of people didnt see the gains or understand the gains came from obama. Biden wasnt going to repeat the missteps. He was going to tout his progress. He was going to tout all the good hes delivered to the public. By and large, its not that the public doesnt believe that biden did this, its that they dont know its happening. You know, if the administration they have to ramp it up, but theyve had mixed marks, if not a failing grade, or actually convincing the public that this stuff is going on, that it is happening in their communities. I dont know if these signs are going to do it, frankly. Yeah. Katty kay, whats so crazy is, i mean, the economy is, by most objective measures, doing very well. You have three out of four americans recently telling pollsters they were pleased with where they were, where they were economically. Thats a number we dont usually see. Of course, unemployment near record lows. The economy growing right now at just the right clip. Most economists think, and the fed thinks we will have a soft landing from inflation. But for some reason, there just is a disconnect. This white house has not been able to connect with voters on the economy, even for voters who think things are going well economically for them and their families. Yeah. I mean, youre so right, joe. Ive come back from europe, and i spent some time in the uk and in europe. Inflation in the uk close to 9 . Inflation across europe around 6 . Really a much more pessimistic Economic Situation in the uk and in europe generally. I come back here, things feel like theyre booming. It feels like the covid crisis barely happenedeconomically. America is doing so much better than other countries, but youre right, people arent feeling it, or at least theyre not telling pollsters it is going to move them in the direction of supporting joe biden more. His numbers havent shifted. Its two things. The calcified nature of American Politics, its entrenched. Whatever the economic numbers are, most people wont change their minds. Maybe a few will in the middle. Biden hasnt yet been able to do what barack obama did, which is stand in front of big plaques around bridges, because the money has been dispersed, not spent yet, and the projects havent actually begun yet. I think theyre hoping in the white house, from my understanding, is once they have the money out there, then they will be able to do a little bit more of what barack obama did so successfully in 2008. Stand there and say, look, this project was brought to you by us. Exactly. Well be following this. It is a few minutes past the top of the hour. Lets get to our top story. Just days after being formally charged for his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 Election Results, former President Donald Trump spent the weekend testing the limits of the judge assigned to the case. During thursdays arraigarraign the Magistrate Judge warned trump against interfering in the case, telling him his bond could be revoked if he tried to influence a juror, threaten or bribe a witness, or retaliate against anyone giving information to prosecutors. Despite telling the judge that he understood her warning, just one day later, the former president posted on his social media site, quote, if you go after me, im coming after you. That message set off alarm bells within the Justice Department, where special counsel jack smith quickly asked a judge to impose a protective order in the case, to block trump from Sharing Evidence turned over to his defense team on social media. In response, judge Tanya Chutkan gave trumps legal team until 5 00 this afternoon to respond to the dojs request. The former president s lawyers asked for a threeday extension, which the judge denied. Meanwhile, trump continued to go after those involved in the case over the weekend, despite being warned not to do so. His targets included former Vice President mike pence, who is a potential witness for prosecutors. Also, the judge herself. And jack smith, both on social media and during a speech in alabama. Deranged jack smith. Doesnt he look deranged . See the picture with the purple robe . He is a deranged human being. Were getting stronger by the day. Somebody said, you should treat him nicer. Maybe hed be nice. Let me tell ya, this guy is a lost soul. Bad guy. Lets bring in former u. S. Attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. And Senior Executive editor for National Security, david rhodes. Good to have you both on. Joyce, you practiced law in alabama. I practiced law in l. A. , Lower Alabama. I just keep going back to this. A federal judge, at least in Lower Alabama, northwest florida, would not put up with any of this. If this were anybody else. Any of this. Im wondering, and i asked this of Chuck Rosenberg earlier. We talk about equal justice under the law. Yes, hes been indicted for stealing Nuclear Secrets. Yes, he has been indicted for trying to overthrow a president ial election. That said, what defendant in any federal court in america would be able to threaten a prosecutor, intimidate witnesses, and get away with it, and not have their bail revoked . I think your point is very welltaken. Imagine if this defendant was someone who was accused of foreign terrorism or if this was someone who was involved in a violent Drug Trafficking ring. Certainly, this would be met with swift condemnation from the court, the revocation of bond. But the reality this judge and this prosecutor are up against is that the goal here is to get the case to trial. I think they will try to avoid as much as possible, at least unless trump makes it absolutely impossible, these sorts of comments. Because he cannot carry them out. The risk here is he can ignite his followers. Weve seen him send a lone wolf down a dangerous path in the past. But i wouldnt be surprised to see judge chutkan bring him into court this week, tellconsequenc. The problem for the court is at some point, you cant let him threaten it. You have to, at some point, hold him accountable. Joyce, at what point . At what point do the threats stop and the action begin . Because if donald trump can threaten federal prosecutors, if he can intimidate witnesses you know where im going every criminal defendant in america can do that and point to the example of donald trump, saying, wait a second, he threatened a federal prosecutor and Nothing Happened to him. Wait a second, he threatened potential witnesses and Nothing Happened to him. It cant happen to me. Thats not equal justice under the law. Thats absolutely right. Trump always creates this Slippery Slope for bad conduct by other people. It will be important for the courts to figure out where the line is. Something that is interesting, joe, is the way the government brought this to the judges attention. They didnt file an outraged motion demanding that trumps bond be revoked immediately, and i think that was a good strategy. This conduct, while it is heinous, perhaps requires a little bit more conduct by the former president to evaluate in that sense. Instead, the government brought it forward in the context of this motion for a protective ord er, which was coming anyhow. It is meant to prevent donald trump from publicly talking about discovery that he is about to receive from the government. Some of the discovery will include information like personally identifying information for some of the witnesses who testified in front of the grand jury. You dont want trump, for instance, going on truth social and revealing a witnesss personal phone number or home address. By the same token, some of this information that comes out in discovery will be grand jury testimony that needs to remain secret. So the issue here will be for the court to begin with what i would call progressive discipline. Imposing the protective order, making clear if trump does anything else, it will be unacceptable. Trying to get his lawyers to impose some control on their client. Because his lawyers have obligations here. Hes got two good lawyers in john lauro and todd blanche. They understand what the realities are here. The court may ultimately be forced to take action, but shed only want to do that based on a very strong record, something that would make it clear that trump couldnt be controlled or constrained in any other way. So Donald Trumps former attorney general bill barr made the tv rounds again over the weekend, largely defending the department of justice. Saying the charges against trump are not a result of a weaponized doj. I dont like, you know, all these overkill attacks, that this was somehow reprehensible to bring it. What was reprehensible was the conduct after the election. Its perfectly to be expected that the department of justice would approach it the way it would approach Something Like this, which is under the laws against defrauding the United States and obstructing proceedings. I think its a legitimate case. I dont understand the attacks on the department, saying its abusive or it is weaponization for bringing this case. When someone says, you know, this is unfair, this is, you know, theres some other motive, the first question is, okay, was the crime done . Was there serious wrongdoing here, or is this a case of going after somebody who really didnt do anything or a technical violation or stretching the law way beyond where it should be . No. There was very grave wrongdoing here, and i think it is reasonable to say that it falls within the obstruction of a proceeding. Thats not weaponization. Thats enforcement of the law. I am concerned that in a second term, he will be off the hook. There will be no way of controlling him, and he will also surround himself with yes men. David, it is important that barr is talking this way. I dont know if Trump Supporters completely tune him out now, but, you know, you look at most of the stuff thats on fox news and its false equivalencies, false moral equivalencies and false legal equivalencies. The Wall Street Journal Editorial Page which had been critical of donald trump trying to steal the election and of january 6th now bathed in false equivalencies. Everything has to do with hunter biden. They can never mention donald trump trying to steal an election or stealing Nuclear Secrets without bringing up democrats or hunter biden or a weaponized doj. Its grotesque. Yet, it is a grotesque play that at least 40 of americans are buying. Yeah. In a sense, their goal is to put the Justice Department on trial here. I think this is the most important trial in the 150 year history of the Justice Department. If you look, there was a poll recently by Marquette University law school that showed that roughly 80 of republicans, 80 have little or no confidence in what the Justice Department is doing today. Roughly 80 of democrats have some or a great deal of confidence in what the Justice Department is doing today. Thats the difference. I spoke with former Justice Department officials, one of whom agreed, talked about hunter biden. You know, agreed with the Talking Points you just mentioned, that this was an unfair prosecution, that all the prosecutions are being brought now that he is running for president. Others in the Department Support whats happened. Its just a critical moment for them. But, david. Go ahead, yes . How can they say that . You know, in 2019, we said on this show, if donald trump loses in 2020, he will run again to avoid prosecution. This is what my Torts Professor would say when he was setting us up, hed say, and the next thing you should see like a Freight Train coming out of the mist. We all saw this coming for four years. That he would run again so he could delegitimize all the prosecutions that were clearly coming after him. More so after january 6th. How could anybody in the doj, how could anybody at the Wall Street Journal Editorial Page, how could anybody on fox news make any of these arguments with a straight face when we all saw it coming years ago . I agree, it was very clear it was coming. One of the criticisms of merrick garlands Justice Department is why it took so long to bring this indictment. It was clear from the moment garland took office that this was going to be a central question, the most powerful investigation against donald trump regarding january 6th would be conducted by the Justice Department, not by congress. The power of a grand jury to get to the truth. Why did it take so long is one question. What katty said earlier about our calcified politics. I looked at the polls leading up to watergate and the resignation of richard nixon. With each step along the way, there was a bipartisan hearing in congress. That knocked down president nixons numbers. Federal indictments of some of nixons aides by the doj. That knocked down his numbers. Then, finally, it was the Unanimous Supreme Court ruling that brought his Disapproval Rating to 59 . It was 59 , then reresigned. We dont have the body blows from the branches of government coming today, and trump wants this. Hed be happy if he was jailed, bluntly, by judge chutkan, but itd play into his narrative that he is the victim of some deep state plot. Sam . Yeah, to further that point, if you recall back to the end of the last congress, the Impeachment Trial, the second Impeachment Trial of trump, one of the reasons that republicans voted against conviction, including mitch mcconnell, was precisely that they were saying, look, the legal system can handle this. He is not going to be president. We are inaugurating joe biden. Lets let the legal system work out what is criminal conduct. Now, a lot of republicans are saying, no, no, no, we should wait until the next election. Let the Voters Decide on this. It is kicking the can down the road. I had a sort of technical question for joyce. I was neither a lawyer in alabama nor in l. A. , but i am kind of curious, how does lets say the judge gets to this point where she says, you know, i have to issue a protective order or gag order. How does that work in this context . Trump is still a candidate for president. He is still running against mike pence, who will likely be a witness in this trial. How do you stop him . Where is the how do they draw a line that says, no, you cannot talk about your prosecution, even though it is a central part of your election strategy, or you cant talk about mike pence, even though youre running against him . . Apparently, you dont have to had practice law in Lower Alabama to appreciate the difficulty. Thank you, joyce. Youve identified exactly the problem. Trump is talking a lot about his First Amendment rights as a defense to this lawsuit. First amendment appears in a different context here. As a candidate, how do you gag him while he is running for Political Office . Thats why judge chutkan, i think, well see her try to use all of the tools at her disposal short of a gag order. Working with the lawyers, laying down very clear rules for the former president. Thats why the effort was made during his arraignment by the Magistrate Judge to advise him not to do this. Theyre going to try to ask him to cabin his own behavior rather than formally gagging him, because of the implications that that has in the political process. And thats just a reality here. Thats not to say that trump is being treated differently than other criminal defendants, but trump is actually different than other criminal defendants in this one regard. He will have to have a First Amendment right on the campaign trail. He can criticize mike pence. But what he cant do and where that line exists is he cant intimidate him from testifying. Ultimately, he cant taint the jury pool. That line is not a black and white one. It will be more art than science disterning it. So this is a complicated problem. Dont want to pretend it is easier than it is. The court haas an obligation to ensure the government is treated fairly, as is the defendant. Right. David, one thing that lawyers from l. A. To alabama, all across america, understand and learn in their first constitutional law class is that the First Amendment, obviously, is an extraordinary it provides an extraordinarily powerful right to free speech. And, yet, speech is not equal. Political speech is, in fact, the most protected speech. So, again, this makes the dojs challenges in tamping down some of what donald trump says even more difficult. Because, again, it is political speech is sacrosanct, and the question is, how do you divide that with something that perhaps is abusive toward mike pence in a way that may be to the side of politics . Yeah, the real issue is threatening jurors. Everyone deserves a fair trial, but jurors deserve the freedom to sit in judgment and not fear retaliation. The one thing that could backfire on donald trump is donald trump. For skeptics, there are years and years, Tens Of Thousands of lies throughout his presidency. So hes going to make this argument in court and in public that, you know, he didnt mean to challenge the Election Results in 2020. Many people, and most importantly, a dozen federal jurors in washington, d. C. , may simply not believe him. Well see what happens. Its huge stakes for the country, for the Justice Department, and for trump himself. Absolutely. Nbc news Senior Executive editor for National Security, david rhodes, and former attorney joyce vance. David brings up the number of republicans who dont trust the department of justice, dont trust the fbi. Donald trump has succeeded in turning a large chunk of the Republican Party against the very Institution Thas used eds defend against extremists. Whether its the department of justice, the fbi, the United States military, where republicans and donald Trump Supporters call the chairman of the joint chiefs a pig, stupid, all these other things. Say that helicopters that were used in afghanistan are being brought to attack Trump Supporters. Or saying the fbi was going to kick down doors of Trump Supporters and arrest them for being Trump Supporters. All of these lies. So, again, its this is what donald trump wanted. Because hes broken the law, it appears, broken the law time and again, hes got to turn americans against the rule of law. You know, from january you know, from january 6th going back through the election, he did everything he could, because he thought he was going to lose to joe biden, did everything he could, and even told Chris Christie in the summer of 2020 how he was going to undermine the political system by talking about how it was rigged. So he did that. We got a riot out of it on january 6th. Now, you have donald trump, his supporters, republicans, others doing everything they can to undermine americas confidence in their judicial system. As david said, look at the numbers. Its working. Its a real tragedy. Its a real tragedy because you actually have one Political Party thats doing everything they can to tear to Shreds Institutions that have provided stability to this country for hundreds of years. Well, trumps legal problems are having an impact not only on the former president himself but on many of his closest aides, as well. The Washington Post reports, things could soon get uncomfortable for several trump advisers who are mentioned prominently in one of his three criminal indictments. Their involvement could ultimately set up a situation where they are working for trumps 2024 campaign while also serving as witnesses at one of his upcoming trials. Joining us now, one of the contributors to that story, Washington Post reporter covering the Justice Department, perry stein. Perry, this sounds beyond awkward, perhaps even impossible. Who are we talking about here . Yeah, so we know, my colleagues counted at least seven Current Trump advisers who could be who are mentioned in these indictments that he faces and could be called as potential witnesses. So were seeing, i mean, and this is based on, you know, some of the Washington Post reporting using sources to piece together who is in the indictment and who are his advisers. Were talking people like susie wiles and jason miller, people still quite close to trump. Also, not to mention, mr. Nauta, who is a codefendant in the maralago case, who you saw one day being doing his initial Court Appearance alongside his boss, former president trump, and then going to a Campaign Event with him right after that. So we know that, you know, people that could be key witnesses in these cases are still working with the former president as he runs to be president again in 2024. Perry, how does donald trump handle this Going Forward then . If it is possible he could be violating court orders just by talking to somebody in his campaign team, and presumably they dont want to release who they think it is because that could put them in a difficult position as well, how are they going to handle somebody like jason miller, who is potentially a witness . So we know that, you know and i could speak to, lets take the florida case, for example. The judge down there, the Magistrate Judge and the judge, what they said is, you cannot talk about witnesses about the facts of the case. Its not like he cant talk to mr. Nauta, who is a close aide, a valet to him. Its not like he cant talk to him about, you know, the day, what the day ahead lies. Specifically, they cant talk about the facts of that case. We know prosecutors handed over to trumps team a list of at least 84 witnesses that they say he cant talk to the facts about the case. It is interesting, perry, though, because i would say that some people who work for donald trump might be a little scared of him. They may be in an awkward position if he tries to cross the lines. And it is fact that he has crossed boundaies before, even over the weekend, against a judges directions on how to behave. Yeah, i think youre exactly right. It is awkward. So as my colleagues noted in that piece, i mean, what we see is, you know, a lot of these people have testified before in the January 6th Committee Under Grand Jury subpoena. All these different ways. That was a pretty private setting. So if theyre called in front of witnesses, theyd be due in a courtroom with presumably donald trump there looking at them. You know, in front of a jury. Theyre collecting a paycheck, a lot of them, from donald trump, as they are going to testify. You know, you can Face Criminal Charges if you dont speak truthfully. So it is an awkward position. You have you know, i know some aides have said, you know, theyre doing what theyre supposed to. Theyre talking to investigators, but they still say they are loyal to trump. Justice Department Reporter for the Washington Post, perry stein, thank you very much for joining us this morning with your reporting. Still ahead on morning joe, well show you the moment Trump Supporters confronted and heckled former Vice President mike pence outside of a Campaign Event. Plus, well explain a controversial measure on the ballot tomorrow in ohio that could have a major impact on future referendum in that state. Also ahead, what appears to be a major concession by the israeli Prime Minister on a judicial overhaul that has sparked weeks of protests in telaviv. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Woman why did we choose safelite . We were loading our suv when. Crack safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when theyd arrive with a replacement we could trust. 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Qunol has the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. Qunol. The brand i trust. From prom dresses. To workouts. And new adventures. You hope the more you give the less theyll miss. But even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past. They may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. Although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. Now as youre thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need, make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. What do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Welcome back. Time now for a look at the morning papers. We begin in florida, where the Citrus County chronicle report on the former governor saying Sunshine Members filing a brief with the court against disneys lawsuit with ron desantis. Desantis appointed a board to oversee disney after the company objected to his socalled dont say gay law. Now, a group of Government Officials are telling the court, quote, the path the governor has chosen is corrosive to the form of democracy envisioned by the constitution. They say this feud with disney is also hurting the states economy. You know why is he you dont say. Yeah. Katty, its always been remarkable, as somebody who has been in florida for most of his life, that ron desantis is declaring a war against the states top employer over, again, a social issue just like Tommy Tuberville is hurting the readiness of the marine corps and the United States army. I dont know if you saw it or not, but a fascinating article in the New York Times about how Republican Voters are starting to say, enough with the woke stuff, and getting exhausted by it. They just arent moved by this. Maybe, again, just total exhaustion. There was one Pennsylvania Republican voter who said, you know, heres the deal, if you dont like disney, dont go to disney. If you dont like budlight, dont drink budlight. Yeah. But dont get the government involved in this. I read it and went, oh, my god, spoken like a true republican used to speak about such things. Exactly. It is bizarre that ron desantis has weaponized government against private entities, and the republicans just have gone Along For The Ride. Yeah. I read that article, too. I mean, if you take ron desantis of the barometer of how obsessed americans are about socalled whatever they are, woke issues, then it suggests theyre not very obsessed, right . Otherwise, he would be doing better. He is making that his whole campaign. In the article, i think ought what was interesting, the voters are saying, listen, what id rather they are talking about are things like Law And Order, classic republican orders, talking about immigration and the border, and not talking about things like, you know, gender and gay rights. Its such an unrepublican position, to be telling american corporations how they should run their business. It is the antithesis of what the Republican Party has always stood for. Its happened in florida. It is also happening in texas, by the way, with greg abbott, as well. It doesnt surprise me it didnt have much legs. Ron desantis weak showing in the polls is an indication of that. Yeah. You are exactly right. It is the antithesis of what republicans are supposed to be, what theyre supposed to believe, and instead of, like, a governor using the power of the centralized state to tell Small Business owners what to do, to attack disney, to attack all these other things, you know, let the market decide. Let the free market decide. Its what, you know, ive always said here. For some reason, they want the federal government, they want the State Government to fight all their battles for em, or at least thats what the politicians think. Polling is starting to show that maybe rank and file republicans are actually more concerned about crime, about immigration, about some of these traditional concerns. A lot of his president ial campaign has been on wokeness and all sorts of these issues, these kind of issues that arent really kind of sticking with the Republican Party because they dont make sense to anybody. Nobody understands them. Right. You look at some of the coverage of Ron Desantis Campaign of late. Theres some reporting that it is petering out. Yeah. To say the least. A lot of problems there. You know empty seats in iowa, et cetera, et cetera. As the New York Times also said in this article, like, donald trump proving once again that he sort of has got his finger on the pulse of the Republican Party, was saying weeks ago, i dont like talking about the woke stuff because i dont know what it means. Most people dont know what it means. Again, it is used for absolutely everything. Again, i know a lot of republicans just dont want to be obsessing over a lot of these issues. Theyre more concerned, again, about taxes, about crime, about immigration. They see the images coming out of new york and the immigration crisis. They hear eric adams and other democratic mayors talking about how things are so out of control on the immigration front. Those are issues, actually, where ron desantis could connect more with voters if you wanted to talk. Again, its wokeness, wokeness, wokeness. You have the Wall Street Journal again, in this case, going after ron desantis. The times talking about it this morning, saying, basically, ron desantis is against more free trade. He is against immigration. He is against having more workers in the United States. Again, for those of you, again, that may not pay close attention to it, were not talking about illegal immigration, where people just stream across the border and you have an Immigration System that is chaotic. Were talking about legal immigration. Right. Were talking about workers coming to the United States legally. Were talking about hightech workers coming to the United States legally. Its a great issue to talk about, instead of wars against walt disney and budlight. Never understood it. Because most americans are like that republican in pennsylvania who was like, you dont want to drink budlight, dont want to go to disney, dont do it. Just dont get the government involved. More morning papers. In new york, the stateapproving touchscreen voting machines. The board of elections certified the devices last week, leaving it up to counties to decide whether they want to use these machines instead of paper ballots. Some are against the devices, saying they could lead to errors and make elections more susceptible to hacking. Theyre now calling on lawmakers to pass a bill banning touchscreen voting machines. Well, is there a Paper Receipt that comes with those . Thats what i asked. There needs to be a Paper Receipt. Yeah. I will say, as, you know, backwards as our Election System seems to be at times, what actually makes it less hackable is the fact that you have all these counties, 67, for instance, in florida, doing basically 67 different things. Exactly. You know, i dont mind a touchscreen. As long as but i want a Paper Receipt. There has to be a paper trail. See it. If you dont have the Paper Receipt, i think most americans would be very concerned about that. Yeah. Tomorrow in ohio, voters are set to vote in a highstakes Special Election that could have major implications for abortion rights. Issue 1 is a Ballot Measure that seeks to make it more difficult to amend the states constitution. If it passes, itd take effect immediately. Meaning future Ballot Initiatives in ohio, including the one on abortion this fall, would require 60 of the votes to pass, rather than a simple majority. The measure has a galvanized supporters and those opposed alike. Theyre saying it is not about abortion, instead, it is meant to protect the constitution from special interest groups. Democrats argued issue 1 is an attempt by republicans to quash Voting Rights into state law. Katty, living in a state like california where they have one referendum after another referendum after another, that actually having a 60 threshold makes a lot of sense. But timing is everything, isnt it . This is suddenly coming up before an abortion referendum. Makes it suspicious. Even if they have the 60 threshold, republicans still dont get it, how unpopular dobbs is. And how unpopular their extremist legislation that makes 10yearold girls who are raped in ohio flee to other states to get health care. Yeah. Abortion rights activists are concerned in ohio. Getting from 50 plus 1 to 60 plus 1 is more of a hurdle. Youre right, may be the 60 plus 1 in ohio anyway, but theyre not taking chances and are campaigning against this. The 50 plus 1 in ohio has worked for decades on other referendums, and there hasnt been a petition to raise it to 60 until this referendum was coming up. Right. Looks like moving the goalpost, right . Were afraid we cant win with the law as it is, therefore, we are going to change the parameters of the law, of the statute to make the Referendum Bill to make it so we can win. You know, lets see. It is an important it sounds arcane as a measure, but, actually, it is very important as a reflection of the abortion debate. Well be watching this. Coming up, quote, the ones we sent away. Our next guest joins us with a deeply personal story featured on the cover of the atlantic. It delves into how families process grief and past traumas. Morning joe will be right back. My Mental Health was much better, but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. Td can be caused by some Mental Health meds. And its unlikely to improve without treatment. I felt like my movements were in the spotlight. Ingrezza is a Prescription Medicine to treat adults with td movements. Ingrezza is different. Its the simple, oncedaily treatment proven to reduce td thats 1 prescribed. People taking ingrezza can stay on their current dose of most Mental Health meds. Ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. Dont take ingrezza if youre allergic to any of its ingredients. Ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including sleepiness. 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For a limited time, get 300 off select hearing aid models. Youve never heard an angry rhino. Baby i hear one every night. Every night. Okay. Ill work on that. Save up to 500 on the new sleep number® smart bed. Plus, free Home Delivery when you add an adjustable base. Shop now only at sleep number®. 47 past the hour. The atlantic is out with a new cover story this morning taking a revealing look at how our nation has treated people with intellectual disabilities. Author jennifer senior shares her deeply personal story of her own aunt, adele, who was born in 1951 with various intellectual disabilities, and was sent away to an institution as a toddler. Jens mother would not see her only sister for another 40 years. And it wasnt until jen was 12 years old that she even learned she had an aunt. Jen chronicles the journey in a new piece entitled, the ones we sent away, shining a light on how past generations sent family members, like her aunt, away, warehousing them and falsely believing there was a ceiling on their intellectual growth. Jen describes what it was like to truly get to know her aunt adele, discovering how the care she received later in life helped restore her humanity and identity. Jen also delves into how her aunts life may have been so different if she were born just a generation later. Jen joins us now. Its interesting in looking at your piece, its not just the ceiling on their intellectual abilities but the value that any human being can offer the world for sure. I would love to hear about the tweet and what inspired you to write this amazing cover story. Thank you. And thank you for that perfect summary. Im going to steal it. Im going to rewatch it and tell it to everybody. The tweet that inspired this was, and its strange to be inspired by twitter because its otherwise kind of toxic, right, but my husband had spotted it. An english theater director had done this very innocuous but beautiful and very heartfelt tweet, saying, my son, joey, has turned 25 today, and hes never spoken a word in his life, but he has taught me more than i will ever know. It was not designed to get clicks or, you know, all the kind of hoorahs. It wasnt designed to appeal to the groundlings, but it went wicked viral. It whipped around the internet. What was interesting about it wasnt just the viralty, it was the replies that he got, right . The replies were all of these parents of kids with intellectual disabilities posting pictures of their kids. Some were very little, and some were old. Some were really quite old, so the parents were elderly, or it was a brother. It was one man in his 70s. I mean, this is my brother who has never spoken either. Youre looking at all these portraits, and they were just pulsingly alive. They were people. Ily alive. And i was like i have someone like this in my family and i dont know them at all. Nothing. So i decided that i was going to go and find her. At the time my aunt was 70. That is incredible. And id love to learn more about your journey with your aunt in terms of getting to know her, but also what the overall message is about how perhaps we view not just treat, but how we view people with intellectual disabilities. How it has changed, but perhaps needs to change much more. It is precise and concise. Which is that back in 1953 when my aunt was institutionalized, which was customary for the day, that is what all families did pretty much, so my aunt was not even a toddler, she was 21 months. And the doctor looked at her and my grandmother was convinced that something was different but didnt know what. And a doctor looked at her one day and said that child that you have is a micro cephalic idiot. That was the phrase of the day. And the belief was that you sent them away, you got them out of your lives because your life would never be the same and they had no potential for yoet. So they should go to a place where they could get whatever they could get but it wouldnt be much. They would be cultivated but there wasnt much to cultivate. There was this thought that brains were plastic. And there was all kinds of untapped potential. None of this was on the table. She was sent to willowbrook which was this gothic palace of and later exposed by geraldo. And 80 people on a floor with two attendants, barely fed, barely clothed, wailing, you know. And sitting in diapers sometimes naked. I mean, it reeked of urine. The whole this is how life was right through the 70s for most people with disabildisabil. Now we have all kinds of state interventions and programs that make it possible to cultivate those with intellectual disabilities. People come to your house for free. But there was nothing back then. And that was in 1953, sounds like the victorian ages the scenes that you are describing. Right. Talk a little bit now about i know youve been in contact with the parents of children that have this syndrome today. What is the treatment different and what kind of progress are kids getting with the right treatment, what are they making . So this was the heartbreaking thing. This is what broke my heart is seeing a kind of counter factual. Like a what if. I had my aint genetically tested. Shes a very rare mutation of a very rare syndrome as it is. And there was Something Like only 12 people who had it when the paper first came out about it in 2020. Now it is probably up to like 30 to 50 people. One of them was a little girl, she was 7, and she lives in kansas city. And she loose a highly dedicated mother that that first of all she was mainstreamed and she had an explosion of speech when she was about 5 years old. Very similar to my aunt. Walked late. Couldnt sit up. Almost no speech. And eventually i mean, she talks in complete sentences. Total access to her inner life. She can add and subtract. She doesnt know the days of the week, so there are things shall i she doesnt know, but she can be a thriving human being. Shell have a job i bet. My aunt, she was within an inch of her life and given all these antisipsychotic medications th did no good until she was about the age of 30. Can you imagine if she had been loved, just one molecule of love and interest in her intellectual growth. But she was instead i think was frustrated and couldnt articulate it. Undiagnosed autism which seems to be a part of the syndrome that comes with it. All these things were diagnosed very early in this beautiful 7yearold little girl, emma, and shes fabulous and she knows how to regulate her emotions. And she talked to me about her besties at school. It was surreal compared to talking with my aunt where speech was hard and very it is just not the same. Right . I mean, that window came and went. And i dont know what happened to her in all those years that she was institutionalized. She doesnt have the ability to articulate it. But shes just been through trauma for all i know. I really, really appreciate you sharing her story and your story as well in terms of processing what has happened in your family and this piece is in the new issue of the atlantic, jen senior, thank you so much for sharing that story with us. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. And still ahead, more than 350,000 women served in world war ii. Well have a look at the stories of some of those valiant women. And why our next guest says it would have been impossible for the ally forces to win the war without them. Plus why the 2024 president ial election is anything but predictable. Amy waller it from the Cook Political Report joins us with factors that could move the needle. E needle hi, im katie. I live in flagstaff, arizona. Im an older student. Im getting my doctorate in clinical psychology. I do a lot of hiking and kayaking. I needed something to help me gain clarity. So i was in the pharmacy and i saw a display of prevagen and i asked the pharmacist about it. I started taking prevagen and i noticed that i had more cognitive clarity. Memory is better. Its been about two years now and its working for me. Prevagen. At stores everywhere without a prescription. As americans, theres one thing we can all agree on. The promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. But heres the truth. Attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than theyve ever been. The right for all to vote. Reproductive rights. The rights of immigrant families. The right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq folks. The time to act to protect our rights is now. Thats why im hoping youll join me today in supporting the American Civil Liberties union. Its easy to make a difference. Just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. All it takes is just 19 a month. Only 0. 63 a day. Your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. States are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. We are going backwards. But the aclu cant do this important work without the support of people like you. You can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. So please call the aclu now or go to my aclu. Org and join us. When you use your credit card, youll receive this special we the people tshirt and much more. To show youre a part of the movement to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution. We protect everyones rights, the freedom of religion, the freedom of expression, racial justice, lgbtq rights, the rights of the disabled. We are here for everyone. It is more important than ever to take a stand. So please join us today. Because we the people means all the people, including you. So call now or go online to my aclu. Org to become a guardian of liberty. He said the president would violate the constitution. No, he never said another way of breaking the law. No, that is wrong. A technical violation of the constitution is not a violation of criminal law. That is just plain wrong. And to say that is contrary to decades of legal statute. So lets get this straight. A technical violation of the United States constitution that donald trump said he wanted to terminate. So if you are Keeping Score at home, Donald Trumps lawyer has moved from this being about First Amendment and free speech which of course it is not. In fact it is laid out in the first couple line he is of the indictment that it is not about free speech to suddenly admitting last week that in fact donald trump did attempt to hold up a constitutional proceeding. So he admitted that last week. And then yesterday he admitted that he violated the constitution of the United States. Just a technical violation of the United States constitution. Pretty bizarre. But he violated the constitution. The admissions keep rolling. So i think was this he was on a lot of the sunday shows trying to push the narrative. And the former president himself spent the weekend raging on social media. And this could get interesting. With posts that could defy the judges orders. Remember the directions the judge gave him at his arraignment. Well get legal analysis on that new development. Also ahead, one of trumps allies in the senate makes light of the new mill greating nature of his relationship with the former president. Plus republican senator Tommy Tuberville has held up crucial Military Promotions since february over the pentagons abortion policy. And it has the pentagon again warning about potential disruptions to troop readiness and military relationships. The Republican Senate and radicalism of Tommy Tuberville that is being, you know, allowed by the rest of the republicans. The United States marine corps doesnt have a commandant for the first time in 150 years. Now the army is without a leader again because of the radicalism of republicans in the United States senate. There is something we dont usually say, it is usually the house. But they are sitting back letting Tommy Tuberville do this. And just strip the leadership of the United States military. Which i guess follows with what republicans in the house have been doing where they have been calling the chairman of the joint he chiefs a pig or just attacking them constantly. So this war against the United States military by republicans continues. It is a really interesting time for the country. It is a dangerous time in so many ways. I would agree with that. And also when my former party declares war against the readiness of the United States military, it is a real problem. Based on again the debate the social issues. That is fine. Have the debate. But for gods sake, dont stand in the way of the readiness of the military. And so Jonathan Lemire iskat stein is back. And always with us Chuck Rosenberg. Good to have you all this morning. We start this week with a flurry of legal action in the latest indictment of donald trump just days after being formally charged for his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 Election Results. The former president spent the weekend testing the limits of the judge assigned to the case. During thursdays arraignment, the Magistrate Judge warned trump against interfering in the case telling him that his bond could be revoked if he tries to influence a juror, threaten or bribe a witness, or retaliate against anyone giving information to prosecutors. Despite telling the judge that he understood her warning, just one day later, the former president posted on his social media site, quote, if you go after me, im coming after you. That message sent off alarm bells within the Justice Department where special counsel jack smith quickly asked the judge to impose a protective order in the case to block trump from Sharing Evidence turned over to his defense team on social media. The dojs request stated, if the defendant were to begin issuing public posts using detail, or for example grand jury transcripts, obtained in discovery here, it could have a harmful Chilling Effect on witnesses or adversely affect the Fair Administration of justice in this case. In response, judge Tanya Chutkan gave trumps legal team until 5 00 this afternoon to respond to the dojs request. The former president s lawyers then in turn asked for a three day extension. Here we go. Something that the Justice Department balked at. And smith wrote rather than spend time complying with the courts order, the defendant drafted a filing as to why he did not have time to review and consider the five page proposed protective order. The judge concurred with prosecutors and shot down trumps request to have todays deadline pushed back. While all this was going on, the former president continued to go after those involved in the case over the weekend despite being warned not to do so. His targets included former Vice President mike pence who is a potential witness for prosecutors. Also judge chutkan herself. And of course jack smith. Both on social media and during a speech in alabama. Deranged jack smith. Doesnt he look deranged . You see the picture with the purple robe . He is a deranged human being. Were getting stronger by the way. Someone said you should treat him nicer. Let me tell you, this guy is a lost soul bad guy. So Chuck Rosenberg, i just keep going back to everything ive ever seen regarding proceedings before federal judges and federal courts. And we talk about equal justice under the law. Yes, donald trump has actually been indicted for trying to overthrow a president ial election. But chuck, i just again in my limited experience being around this a good bit, i just have never known of a federal judge that would allow a defendant to publicly threaten a prosecutor, stir up Death Threats against a prosecutor, let alone question the integrity of the court itself, the federal judge itself. Im wondering, i mean, equal justice under the law are we carving out a special exception for donald trump here if his bail is not revoked . I hope not, joe, and i dont think so. I think the judge is handling this properly for now so far. Right . Shes being patient and firm. And shes laying down clear rules. In other words, for instance, minor point, she didnt give mr. Trumps lawyers more time to argue a frivolous motion. She is requiring their response today. Ive seen judges do Something Like this, they are patient to a point and then they are no longer patient. And this is reason sort of 37, 38 and 39 why you dont want to be mr. Trumps lawyers because you are forced over and over again to say things that are nonsense and to take positions in court that are frivolous. And a little context here might be helpful. When the government is asking for a protective order, that is not an unusual ask. The government is about to provide reams of information and data, some of it quite sensitive, to the defense team as part of the discovery process. And if the defense misuses that stuff, if mr. Trump starts to post names of witnesses on social media, there are real consequences to that. Not just that it withes could be harassed or threatened, but potentially worse. So i think the judge is watching this very carefully, handling it appropriately. And if you push her too far, there will be consequences for mr. Trump and his lawyers as there ought to be. There certainly should be, sam stein, but you have a Prosecutor Being threatened by donald trump online and in a speech. He is called deranged. Im coming after you. He calls the federal judge biased. He talks a witness in the case trying to intimidate the witness. And listen, let me just help everybody that is involved in this case, if they cant figure it out, donald trump was trying to get the names or people around donald trump were trying to get the names of fbi agents out that searched his maralago home. Desperately trying to get them out so they would be threatened. We now have the same thing that will happen here. They give donald trump information, maybe he doesnt post it on social media, but gives it to steve bannon or roger stone or Somebody Else and they put the names out. I mean, it seems to me that this is going to have to be a protective order and donald trump will have to go to jail if the terms are if the terms are violated. Because we all know the terms are going to be violated. Chuck obviously knows better than me, he is more seasoned in the field than i am, but i have to imagine that we are in unique circumstances here. It is probably unprecedented that high profile defendant in this case makes such overt threats against the prosecutor in such a public forum. You know, i think any other case if a client did Something Like this, you would see a harsh rebuke from the judge. Patience i suppose is helpful here in the long run. But im with you, it is hard to see how this is tenable at all. If you put aside the legal stuff and you look at the political stuff, almost the entire reason in this campaign is that he is going to fight the prosecution. He is running on the platform that he is unfairly persecuted and unfairly prosecuted here. So he has to be out there railing against jack smith and mike pence who almost undoubtedly will be a witness in this trial. It is compelling here. If not for personality, it is compelling to take these steps that are incredibly radical for a defense to take. And it is only a matter of time before the judge has to call his bluff if hes not going to stop. Because he has to campaign with this posture. And once the judge calls his bluff, you know, who knows what the consequences of that are politically speaking. And the silence has been deafening not only from Wall Street Journal a Editorial Page, but more importantly from republicans in the United States senate, the United States house. Head of their party, the guy most likely to be the nominee, has threatened a federal prosecutor. And said im coming after you. He has gone full mobster here. And yet no criticism from republicans in the house, republicans in the senate, very little from republicans on the campaign trail. Let me say it again. He has threatened a federal prosecutor. And it seems the only thing republicans know how to do is fall more meekly in line with him like Lindsey Graham this past weekend. Oh, my gosh. Just fall in line behind a guy who is behaving like a mobster and threatening a federal prosecutor. Yeah, because they know who the next nominee of the Republican Party is most likely to be and it is most likely to be donald trump and they run scared not just of donald trump but of donald Trump Supporters. And whatever the former president does in this calcified political atmosphere, they dont want to cross him. He also when he says that mike pence has gone to the dark side, that is a signal too. Best selling tshirt in trump memorabilia stores is the one with mike pence is a traitor. He puts him further at risk with that kind of language. The reality is donald trump is not any defendant. He will be treated to some extent s like when he tries to delay and delay and delay, most likely the court will speed up the process to try to make sure that they see his appeals for delay perhaps better than Somebody Else. But there will be ways in which he will be treated differently. But he cant go on carrying after the judge has said you have to watch what you say with the kind of language he used over the course of this weekend. Speaking of that language, and well show you Lindsey Graham, truly if it is possible a new low. It is the most subversive submissive. It is so submissive. But chuck, i have a question for you. A comment like im coming for you if you are coming after me, whatever, is kind of thrown out there. But what about when he names people like mike pence who, you know, are part of this and are testifying potentially, isnt that more of something that judge could actually rebuke him for or even like revoke his bail . If you start going flatly against, overtly against, going what the judge has told him to do. Absolutely. Good question. A judge could take steps. But let me add something. A prosecutor could take steps. Threatening harassing witnesses, intimidating witnesses, that is a separate federal crime. And you saw that the smith team has no reluctance to supersede its indictment in the Southern District of florida. So could that happen here. Sure. If mr. Trump continues to target witnesses, right, for intim gags and harassment, he is committing another crime post indictment. And if the government decides that the conduct is serious enough and they can prove his corrupt intent, they can charge him with that too. So it might be completely appropriate. There is only so much a judge can do. He is running for president , so he is going to talk whether we like it or not. He will continue to talk and post. But what he talks about and what he posts about could have serious legal consequences. Either as you point out Bail Revocation which is a possibility, and i dont think that you want to test this judge on that too many times, or if he continues to commit federal crimes, more federal charges. What we saw in the case where the judge said he raped e. Jean carroll, he continued to defame her. And so again maybe he thinks he is immune in all of this and he can do whatever he wants. Or maybe it is a delay tactic. Like if you throw on so many charges, does it delay it down the road. And as chuck said, this is why you dont represent donald trump because he is going to humiliate you as a lawyer, he is going to make you say things that are frivolous defenses that will be just stupid and you will be defending a guy that talks and threatens like a mobster. Republicans should be standing up to this. And youve had members in the senate who have three, four more years in office and yet they just continue to grovel while the leader of their party is threatening federal prosecutors and really undermining the judicial system of the United States of america just like they tried to undermine american democracy leading up to january 6. Well, here is the person at the head of the oh, my lord. Somebody who said after january 6 hed had enough. And then got intimidated and actually grovelled more. Lindsey graham. This is Lindsey Graham at a Republican Party dinner saturday in his home state. People ask what happened with you and trump. I said he beat me like a drum and i acknowledged that he did. He is sort of liked hearing that, but ive come to like him and he liked him, and that gets us through 18 holes of golf. One thing i can fell you, you better not screw with this guy or youll regret it. Jonathan lemire, ive got to say, i it is not in me. And i dont think it is in most people. I guess the question hes asking is what is worth that. And i can tell you, having a congressional pin is not. In fact i dont think anything is worth humiliating yourself the way lindsay does. But we can expand this out. Again, donald trump threatened a federal prosecutor saying im coming after you calling him deranged on stage. No doubt knowing that this was going to amp up the number of Death Threats that jack smith has. And yet republicans in the house and senate sit meekly by, quietly by and continue to act like this is normal. It is Worth Remembering that donald trump once gave on the Lindsey Grahams personal cellphone number and Lindsey Graham got over it. And just a few weeks ago, trump held a huge rally and Lindsey Graham was booed. So graham knows he has work to do to stay in the Republican Base which graham will need when it is time for reelection again. So he is certainly not going to be one to break with trump anytime soon. But you are right, it is pure silence from republicans. The party that used to be known as that of Law And Order, the gop was about Law And Order and they would defend Law Enforcement. Well, they did until january 6. They would defend the court system. Well, they would until now. And you are right, trump has a way of saying things or tweeting things that is just vague enough that people can read into it as they want and that allows him to try to explain it away. And his campaign put out a statement saying he is talking about r. I. N. O. S. No, he clearly wasnt. But that is enough reasonable doubt perhaps for a court. But the other statements arent about pence, about the judge, about jack smith. Those are things that will be a real issue and well learn more at 5 00 today, there is a deadline there and well find out what the judge will do for a man who is a defendant and also running for the white house and trying clearly to be antagonistic to prosecutors. Chuck, your thoughts on this. You know, i wanted to comment on something you said how mr. Trump continually puts his lawyers in the position where they are saying that make absolutely no sense, just frivolous. For instance, john lauro said that his plans were 3450er8 aspirational. He doesnt violate the law, he just programs aspired tovie perhaps aspired to violate the law. And another example of nonsense. I might aspire to rob a bank, i might aspire to go in and come out with bags of money. Once i step in the bank and i pull out a gun and start demanding cash from the teller, im a bank robber even if i didnt fulfill all of my childhood dreams and aspirations of leaving with their dough, im a bank robber. And so if you want to end this guy, you have to say things that are silly. It is one thing to say things that are silly on television. That happens. It is another quite thing to say things that are silly in front of a judge and jury. And so i know that there are people that worry that there are no consequences for his conduct and rhetoric, i believe there will be, not yet not here, but in court. Coming up, a disappointing end for the u. S. Womens soccer team. The defending champs are out of the world cup. Well have the highlights next on morning joe. My cpa told me i wouldnt qualify for the erc tax refund, so i called Innovation Refunds. Their team of independent tax attorneys will work with your cpa to determine if your company is eligible. [whip sound] take the first step to see if your Small Business qualifies. Hi, im tony hawk, and like many of you, take the first step to see if i take a statin to reduce cholesterol, but statins can also deplete coq10 levels. Thats why my doctor recommended qunol coq10. Qunol has the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. Qunol. The brand i trust. From prom dresses. To workouts. And new adventures. You hope the more you give the less theyll miss. But even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past. They may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. Although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. Now as youre thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need, make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. Im saving with liberty mutual, mom. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. You could save 700 dollars just by switching. Ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. On the top of the pile oh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. If sweden wins, the u. S. Is out. If not, another round. Did it go in . Waiting on a signal. Wow. Wow, the u. S. Womens National Team has been knocked out of the world cup following a goalless 90 minutes plus extra time, u. S. Bid to win an unprecedented third consecutive title ended yesterday on penalty kicks. Megan rapinoed a missed from the penalty spot. Sweden secured their spot. It is the earliest exit in tournament history for the u. S. Women. And only the teams send Penalty Shootout Defeat on the world cup stage. U. S. Women also ended the tournament on a 238 minute scoring drought. Their longest in womens world cup history. Hard to watch. Jonathan lemire, obviously this is a team and a program that has nothing to have their heads down about. I mean, two world cup wins in a row. Just an extraordinary achievement. Oh, a team that will be forever remembered with such gratitude here in the United States. Two cups in a row. This was always seen as a bit of a Transition Tournament for them, the last run for the alex morgan and megan rapinoe, while they also have the new young talent coming. They think they are better positioned for four years from now. But still heartbreaking to see. That final goal, the replay shows it was over by about a millimeter. They couldnt have lost by a smaller margin. Just heartbreaking way to go out. Couldnt believe that was a goal. But also a lot of other news obviously. Well stop watching baseball, Jonathan Lemire, this year. Just same exact thing that happened last year after the Trade Deadline where we didnt pick anybody up and the team just deflated. And we went from being the best team since the allstar break to being the worst just like that. First of all, i saw mika collapse when you announced that you werent going to watch baseball anymore. Yeah, i had the great misfortune of being at the game yesterday. Great seats, but they got crushed 131. And they swept by the blue jays. To your point, second straight deadline where the team seems like maybe they are going on a run, they didnt get reinforcement reinforcements, yeah, they are fading fast. And so you know, sam, things have been a little ugly at politico since sam stein arrived. And if you want to know just how it looks inside the newsroom, lets look at what happened in the white sox guardians game a couple nights ago. Another rocket of a throw. And oh, my goodness, here come the benches. It started with anderson and ramirez. And now everybody is spilling out here in cleveland. Swing and a smash to first. And down the right field line. Gets into the corner. Ramirez on his way to second. Head first slide. Safe and into score is jimenez. And another double right over the bag at first. And now they square off, they are fighting, they are swinging. Down goes anderson. Down goes anderson. Wow. That escalated. What happened . And sam stein of course the famed Down Goes Frazier call. I mean, first of all, it was a ridiculous fight. Why did it even begin. But we wont play it because it would take the entire four hours. It was the longest Baseball Fight. Ed it not stop. And those guys, they are just pushing each other. But anderson did walk into a punch. He did not play yesterday after taking on the role of joe frazier by actually walking into ramirezs right hook there. Just walked right into it. It was epic. First thing, i watched it like 20 times. Still not entirely clear why they were fighting. No one has really explained what it was about. Send, it was an incredible right hook. Yes, he walked into it, but he was clearly concussed by that which explains why he didnt play. And youre right, this is reminiscent of what politico is nowadays. Me and lemire at the water cooler and unfortunately im anderson in the situation and lemire throws haymakers at me. Down goes stein, down goes stein there is some speculation there was a hard tag the night before. But, no, that is the best story anyone has given. There is a history of bad blood here, two division rivals. I would say white sox are long since out of the race. Guardians are still battling but they are about to lose their best player for ten or so games. But that is the wildest fight ive seen. And coming up, new reporting that u. S. Advanced technology is still finding its way into the hands of russian military. The equipment being used and how it got there, what the investigation uncovered. Next on morning joe. What do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. For moms, from centrum. 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United states dispatched four warships and recon plane last week in response to another episode in international waters. 11 russians and chinese ships approached the Aleutian Islands believed to be the largest to approach the waters. Ships never crossed in to u. S. Waters and were shadowed by four u. S. Destroyers and a plane. In its reporting the journal cites that it was not considered a threat. However it is the latest International Incident in a series of standoffs between the u. S. And either china or russia, in this case both, amid rising tensions in the pacific and also russias war in ukraine. Meanwhile from the beginning of the war this ukraine, russia has imported much of the weaponry and technology it has used in its assault on the wartorn nation from ammunition provided by north korea to iranianmade drones, russia continues to try and find all the help it can get. And now Exclusive Reporting from cnbc detailing how Western Microchips used to power smartphones and laptops are entering russia and helping to fuel its military arsenal. Lets bring in Karen Gilchrist who is joining us from london. What more can you tell us . Good morning. Thank you for having me. Youre right, ive been investigating mounting evidence that russia is continuing to obtain u. S. Microchips and other advanced western technologies for use in the military. These are not the types of Military Hardware that you would expect. These are the kinds of technologies typically found in our phones and laptops. They have both civilian and military applications. But that means that they are also being repurposed into drones, missiles and armored vehicles. One piece of analysis is 58 pieces of equipment belonging to ukraine and found on the battlefield in sorry, belonging to russia and found on the battlefield in ukraine was found to have more than 1,000 foreign components primarily western semiconductors. I spoke to an analyst to find out more about where these technologies are coming from. Lets take a look. Out of this critical component, we see twothirds of the producers being headquartered in the u. S. The companies themselves should have infrastructure to be able to track if and comply with controls. If we have certain moral values or National Security objectives, we cannot be giving to russia with one hand and also giving assume to ukraine and at the same time being happy that our companies produce for russia. For you, we can see that the vast majority of the products belong to u. S. Companies. Having reached out to some of the company, many of them say that they have ceased operations in russia and no longer supply there. But analysts are saying that really they need to be doing more to clean up their Supply Chains and certainly new Sanctions Packages from the eu announced in june are looking at new measures to sort of sometime stymy the sanctions and not supply russia. I remember the story of a house in north london being used to sanction bust as well. Computers and telephone chips, that sort of thing. What has frustrated american policymakers and western policymakers is why the sanctions havent worked better against russia, why the russian economy hasnt been brought to its knees in a way that would stop putin from being able to fund the war. Is it part of that, if we understand this and shut this loophole, would it have more of an impact on the russian economy and his ability to have that war machine . Absolutely, if we could do more to clamp done on the goods entering the country. So if companies were able to do more to clean up Supply Chains and make sure that they know who their end clients are. But some analysts im speaking to say we just have to shut down all due use items entering russia. Because ultimately it is hard to document where the goods end up. And if were allowing certain ones to enter but we realize they can be repurposed in these nefarious ways, maybe we need to cut it off all together. Karen gilchrist, thank you very much for coming on with your reporting this morning. Still ahead on morning joe, a look at some of the stories maing The Front Page headlines including federal prosecutors now going after billions of dollars lost in pandemic aid fraud. Police some of Donald Trumps top aides could end up as witnesses in one of his many upcoming trials. What it means for the former president s 2024 campaign, ahead on morning joe. Morning joe. What do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. The Biden Administration is doing more to show voters which projects are a result of President Bidens biden Infrastructure Law. Some Construction Sites now have signs which actually say that. It seems to be part of a push to stop republicans from taking credit for projects that they did not vote for. One example from late june was alabama senator Tommy Tuberville posting on social media that his state was receiving crucial funds for broadband access. But he voted against it. Sosecond, if he says it is entitle to the success of our rural communities, why wouldnt he vote why would he vote against that . No clue. Why would he promote something he tried to kill politically . Huh. That is the way he rolls i guess. And President Biden trolled him on line later that day posting see you at the groundbreaking. So Jonathan Lemire, this happens time and again. You have republicans who vote against bills and then they take credit for bills they tried to kill. Yeah, something that personally i at a time this is president who has been known to carry out lists in his pocket that has a counting of republicans who voted against something and then tried to take credit for it. Those signs are interesting. They have been up for a while saying this project is funded by the bipartisan act. But lately they have added the words President Bidens bipartisan Infrastructure Law which shows you that they want credit and of course there is an election on the horizon. But this this a white house to get the a little bit to get the credit they deserve for pretty solid economic markers. The president Heads On The Road today for a threeday Western Swing where hes going to talk about the accomplishments done by the infrastructure act. Hes also going to talk about veterans health, which is deeply personal to him. His son beau biden of course grew ill after returning from iraq. We should note among the states on his itinerary, arizona, one of the true backgrounds. Expect the president to be there a lot between now and next november. Coming up, mike pence confirms he took notes on Donald Trumps efforts to overturn the election. How the former Vice President is now playing a major role in the indictment of his onetime running mate. Morning joe is back in a moment. Running mate morning joe is back in a moment ah, these bills are crazy. She has no idea shes sitting on a goldmine. Well she doesnt know that if she owns a Life Insurance policy of 100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. Even a term policy. Even a term policy . Even a term policy find out if youre sitting on a goldmine. Call Coventry Direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect. Com. Stop right there this week, get the dennys super slam starting at 7. 99. Hungry for all your breakfast favorites . When you want americas biggest breakfast starting at 7. 99. At dennys, its diner time. Now open really late. Let Innovation Refunds help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. Rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. Clink dr. Marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. Emily used part of her refund to buy. I run a wax museum. Let Innovation Refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. Stop waiting. Go to innovationrefunds. Com you really got the brows. From prom dresses. To workouts. And new adventures. You hope the more you give the less theyll miss. But even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past. They may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. Although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. Now as youre thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need, make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. We must go about our daily business more determined than ever to do the ordinary things as well as we can, and when we find a way to do anything more in our communities to others, two build morale, to give a feeling of security, we must do it. Whatever is asked of us, i am sure we can accomplish it. We are the free and unconquerable people of the United States of america. Thats part of the address first Lady Eleanor Roosevelt gave on december 7th, 1941, when japan bombed pearl harbor. Roosevelt would later become a champion for the 350,000 american women who served in world war ii. As our next guest writes, these women were directly involved in ntmoments of the war, from the dday landings to the peace negotiations in paris. Joining us now, cia military analyst lena andrews, author of the new book valiant women, the extraordinary american servicewomen who helped win world war ii. When we talk about world war ii, we talk about the greatest generation, band of brothers for good reason. You talk about really the story we dont tell so much, about the women who helped win the war. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me here and giving me the opportunity to share this story. The reality is most people when they think of world war ii, think of rosie the riveter. The reality is the contribution of women and especially women in uniform is so much larger. As you mentioned, over 350,000 american women served in uniform in world war ii, which to give viewers a sense of scale, is about the size of the active duty navy today. Its a big number, but even more important than the size of the contribution was the actual content of the contribution. Women were in critical support roles often unappreciated. They were doing things like fixing planes or laying cable so that headquarters could communicate with the front lines. Women were found in these essential positions that i think most people dont understand were fundamental to ally strategy. Weve sort of written these women off in history. This book is really my effort to be a corrective to that larger record. Even as somebody who studies war for a living, you were surprised by the size and the magnitude of the contributions of women. You feature 30 veterans, 30 women at least in this book, from Ann Baumgartner to charity adams. From test flying planes to other efforts that helped with morale. I count myself among americans surprised to find women contributed in a much larger way than i was aware of. One of the great joys of this product was getting to interview and read about the diverse roles they occupied. You mentioned Ann Baumgartner, whos one of my favorite veterans featured in the book. She graduates from college adrift, and then decides to become a pilot one day after a really bad day at her medical research laboratory. We should all be grateful that she did. She is an excellent flyer and she ends up test flying the b29 superfortress, which if anybody saw oppenheimer over the weekend, is the plane that dropped the bomb on nagasaki. In many cases women are doing the tasks underlying the entire allied strategy in these key moments. The women themselves havent managed to get their story out. Why dont we know more about them . Is it because they werent in the positions of ultimate powerful and, therefore, they didnt get the accolades the generals got, or they didnt talk about the stories themselves . Its a little bit of both. If you have the privilege of knowing a veteran of this war or of any war, particularly if theyre a woman, please ask them their story, because in many cases we simply didnt ask. In general, as many people can relate to after coming out of covid, when you have these national cataclysmic events, theres a desire to go back to normal. In 1945, normal looked like a return to the home, to homemaking and childbearing. There was a troubling undercurrent that a lot of their work was a little too feminine, a little too peripheral to be real war work. Thats why i encourage people to ask about these stories, because many of these women werent in it for the accolades, they were simply doing their duty and arent going to go out and brag about it afterwards, especially when theyve been told they shouldnt. The new book is entitled valiant women, the extraordinary american servicewomen who helped win world war ii. Lena andrews, thank you for writing the book and thank you for sharing it with us. Learn more about these valiant women at knowyourvalue. Com. We are just into the fourth hour of morning joe by one minute. Our top story this minute is Donald Trumps legal teams and the charges against him for his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 Election Results has until 5 00 this afternoon to respond to the special counsels request to impose a protective order in the case. During thursdays arraignment, youll remember the Magistrate Judge warned trump against interfering in the case, telling him his bond could be revoked if he tried to influence a juror, threaten or bribe a witness or retaliate against anyone giving information to prosecutors. Trump told the judge he understood. But just one day later, he posted on his social media site, quote, if you go after me, im coming after you. That message sparked special counsel jack smith to ask a judge to impose a protective order in the case to block trump from Sharing Evidence on social media turned over to his defense team. Despite that, trump continued to go after those involved in the case over the weekend, including the judge overseeing the case, special counsel jack smith himself and former Vice President mike pence, who is a potential witness for prosecutors. The former president has continued these attacks this morning on his social media site. So hes not stopping at all. Lets bring in John Heilemann and reverend al sharpton, also professor of history at tulane university, the great Walter Isaacson and Barbara Mcquade joins us along with katty kay. No one around this table is surprised to see donald trump continue to do what he is doing on social media, except for the fact that he was told and warned not to by this judge. Well, itll continue. Nobody will be surprised if it continues. Barbara, what should we expect today . Should we expect the court to actually hold donald trump accountable . Reporter today what the Justice Department is asking for is actually far more modest than any sort of gag order. All theyre asking is before we share all of these witness statements in discovery, we would like an order saying that donald trump cannot disclose that to the public, knowing that could invite threats or harassment or intimidation, and yet, they have dragged their feet. This is a routine order entered in many, many kinds of cases. I think donald trump will file something, and im confident the judge will enter this order telling him to stop doing what hes doing, which is intimidating witnesses. The judge is going to have to decide whether to gag him, which will bring all kinds of cries of foul. Walter, this is just the latest in donald trump showing not only who he is, but who he wants to be. I think the Biden Campaign is going to make this a campaign about democracy versus authoritarianism. Donald trumps, if you come after me, im coming after you, is, again, just the latest in a long line of a guy thats trying to break all norms. Whats your take on the Republican Party seemingly going Along For The Ride . Its amazing to me that this country has split so much. We see authoritarianism, and thats a problem. On the other side, it has become a free speech thing. I dont think some of us realize how strong that feeling is, whatever it was what donald trump did on january 6th or what donald trump did yesterday. It has fallen under that rubric of we have to protect free speech. One side takes up the banner of antiauthoritarian tendencies, the other side has taken up the banner of free speech. John heilemann, you see it all over, whether its fox news or the Wall Street Journal Editorial Page with editorials and the opeds. If you talk about the riots on january 6th, they talk about hunter biden. If you talk about stealing Nuclear Secrets, they talk about hunter biden. If you talk about stealing military secrets and war plans, they talk about hunter biden. If you talk about an effort to overturn an american president ial election, they talk about hunter biden. Its not very convincing, but they try it anyway. This First Amendment argument, of course, they know it doesnt hold water. They know its a pathetic excuse. All you have to do is read the first page or two of jack smiths indictment to know this is not about free speech. Yet, theyre so desperate to find some sort of moral or legal equivalency. What do you make of the fact that so many people are falling for it, and republicans are just staying mum and being quiet while donald trump talks about going after a federal prosecutor . I mean, i wish i could say it was surprising that were seeing what were seeing in the sense that every step we get further down this past, the more the depth of the partisan psychosis thats gripped the Republican Party, just how deep it is, just how tight trumps hold is over the combination of the base of the Republican Party and then the elected leadership of the Republican Party, which looks at the base and is scared of the base and, therefore, goes along essentially with these things that would have been considered unthinkable in the party before the age of donald trump. Each turn of the screw is totally unsurprising, and yet it tightens it to a degree that when you step back from it, you realize, my god, how far this whole thing as gone. Im almost as much interested in the immediate political ramifications of the fact that somehow trump is managing to turn all of this to his advantage in one limited political sense, a very important political sense, which is, its wall to wall now. We have spent this morning on morning joe and everyone has spent a lot of time talking about these pretrial motions. They would not be given anything like this kind of coverage in any other case. Trump is just going to be wall to wall in terms of the coverage. All you can say is, a small sliver of a chance that mike pence or Chris Christie would have to break through evaporates very quickly when you cant get any air time on the right or the left or the middle of the american media. These are unprecedented stories, we have to cover them. If you were a republican trying to get oxygen over donald trump, just imagine what its going to be like over the next nine months. No ones going to get the time of day. Of course, what is the option . You know people say, dont talk about donald trump. Okay. We wont talk about somebody who tried to overthrow american democracy, tried to overthrow a president ial election, stole Nuclear Secrets. You bring up a really good point. For those who say, oh, lets just not talk about it and hope it goes away, were talking about a riot and a scheme that donald trump launched to try to overturn a president ial election. Walter, i hear what youre saying about, yes, there are people that you can talk about this being about january 6th, but theyll say its about free speech. This is what trump has done. You know, moral equivalency between trying to overthrow a president ial election and hunter biden. Of course, they look right past 2 billion with the saudis with Jared Kushner and right past all the other stuff. Im just wondering what do you do . Youve been in the media business, you know, most of your life. What do you do if youre the editor of a newspaper and youre trying to break through this . People can tell you, oh, this is about the First Amendment, but they know its not. They know its not. Well, first of all, a lot of them dont. In other words, free speech, whether it involves social media, whether it involves this case, used to be something that spanned the spectrum, the aclu, left and right. And now it has become a rallying banner, and i think we should try to understand it. What john said, of course, as always, has the odious smell of truth, which is, if youre going to focus all the time on trump, its going to be hard for anybody to break through. And yet, theres no solution to that. You cant take the focus off of this. Its a rubbernecking thing. The only way to make this work is if some people, like Chris Christie, chris sununu and make pence are able to continue to prosecute the case and say there is no moral equivalent when youre dealing with stuff like this versus Hunter Bidens laptop. How is getting people to washington, d. C. And setting up false electors, having them know that theyre false electors, having your attorney admit that you deliberately tried to do exactly whats against the law, which is, to stop a constitutional function. Tell me, hows that about the First Amendment . First of all, dont try to trap me into being the defense attorney here. How is setting up a conspiracy to have false electors and overturn the constitution of the United States about free speech . This is why this case is going to be interesting, because as you can see what the government has to prove is that trump knew in his heart of hearts that he was wrong, that he was lying and that he was trying to overthrow the government. In the mind of trump is a very dark forest. Having to prove the intent of knowing he was doing something that was an insurrection act and false is going to be the challenge these prosecutors face. Barbara, how much of a challenge is it . The guy basically admitted he knew he lost to his staff members. I mean, the people that are giving jack smith this information, theyre not leftwing marxists. Theyre not members of some farleft organization. Theyre not editors of the nation, theyre not editors of the New York Times. They dont do prime time shows on msnbc. These are Donald Trumps own lawyers, his own campaign workers. People he picked. Everybody in this indictment are people that donald trump selected to work for him. Or republicans who served at the local level. Right. How hard is it to show intent when he admitted to them he knew that joe biden beat him . I dont think its going to be difficult to show intent in court. What i think donald trump is trying to do is persuade the public that he has a legitimate defense here, because his best defense is to win the election. If he wins the election, there will be no trial if he can delay it long enough or he can pardon himself. In court, this is going to fare as a matter of fact and as a matter of law. Factually they put in evidence all the ways donald trump knew he lost the election, losing 61 out of 62 lawsuits. As a matter of fact, this defense fails. But it also fails as a matter of law. Thats because even if you genuinely believe you have been aggrieved, you cant use illegal means to achieve your desired end. For example, if i believe the bank owes me money, i can file a lawsuit to reclaim that money, but i cant go steal money from the bank. I cant rob the bank just because i think im entitled to it. The fact that donald trump engaged in illegal means to achieve his ends makes that Legal Defense untenable. Former u. S. Attorney Barbara Mcquade, thank you for being with us. Reverend al, youre a man of the cloth, so maybe you can teach me a little bit about charity this morning and grace. Walter says i need to understand these people who are now throwing up their latest smokescreen that this is about the First Amendment, the same people that forgave him for talking about rigged elections, the same guy who tried to overthrow the 2020 election, the same guy that was responsible for riots and responsible for a lot of working class americans being in jail, if you take them at their own words, responsible for this scheme to undermine the constitution of the United States. Why should we try to understand them when its one bad faith excuse after another for letting donald trump act like an authoritarian . Please tell me why do i need to understand them, because im past that because they dont operate in good faith, not even close to it. It is not difficult to understand. Theyre not asking for repentance, if thats what the question is, if im putting on my clergymans hat. They are saying outright they want to determine the outcome of an election. If you are in the republican primaries, you cant fight the case. The prosecutor will do that. What you can say to the American People is do we want a country that people can decide elections and if they lose, they can turn it into this kind of chaos so that we become what the country was founded on to be opposed to. The country was founded on fighting against an autocracy. Donald trump is not fighting for you. Hes fighting to be the king of this United States. You cannot have him make America Great again if hes going against the principles of what america stood for in its origin. Weve had two challenges. We had the American Revolution that started the country. We had the civil war. Both times they tried to deal with throwing away the principles of one man one vote, the principles of a democracy. What side are you on . Are you on the side of america and what it conceptually stands for, or are you on the side of king george and the confederates . Im sure everybody in the Confederate Army said it was free speech. Im sure the british said it was free speech. Are you for democracy or autocracy . If youre for democracy, how can you say that a man that lost the election has the right to disrupt and tell a Vice President to not certify what the people voted for . Right. And a president who also told his lawyer that mike pence deserved lynching on january 6th. Lets bring in now the publisher and editor in chief of the Cook Political Report emmy walter. Were talking about donald trump and were talking about joe biden. The one thing weve learned from politics is we dont even know what next year is going to look like. But lets take this moment in time and maybe you can help us understand better what it says about where American Politics is in 2023. We heard that january 6th would finally get republicans to move away from donald trump, stealing Nuclear Secrets would get republicans to move away from donald trump, stealing war plans to attack iran would do the same. The list is endless. What ive found over the past week is actually some mainstream republicans who turned against donald trump are actually moving back towards him. Again, its anecdotal. But you read the Wall Street Journal Editorial Page, theyve gone soft. You always had people saying i wish fox news would be more like the Wall Street Journal. No, the Wall Street Journal Editorial Page now being like fox news, talking about democrats, hunter biden, not even talking about threats against a federal prosecutor. Please explain to us whats happening. The worse it gets, the better it gets for trump. Right. Well, its what weve seen throughout the course of trumps time as a candidate and as president. The more it seems as if outsiders are attacking him, the easier it is for the base to go and protect him. If you think about the times where he had his lowest job Approval Ratings where republicans were pulling back a little bit, it was when donald trump was making his own mistakes. It was when donald trump was saying and doing things that really were selfinflicted errors. When it looks as if the issue is that the others are coming after him, the media, the department of justice, the insiders in government all coming after him, then it looks like its coordinated. Then it looks like we need to be a team here and teams stick together. When you look atle po polling theres about a 37 to 40 group that arent going to budge no matter what happens. Theres probably 15 to 20 of republicans who are never going to support donald trump. So there is a Significant Group of people that remain persuadable, but there hasnt been an argument from any of their republican challengers to make that case. As everybody on this panel has already outlined, every day all we see is donald trump and one more indictment and one more story in front of us. Hey, amy, its heilemann here. I have two questions. When you think about those polling numbers that you laid out which have been pretty stable for a long time, trumps control over the nomination process and the party has not budged. If anything, its gotten stronger as hes been indicted in these various cases. Its possible to beat him with those numbers that you just laid out, but its difficult to beat him in a multicandidate race. Youve got to get him one on one. If you think about scenarios by which you could get down very quickly in the republican nomination fight to a one on one against trump and the person whos left in that one on one has to figure out the thing you said no one has figured out, which is, a way to not attack trump. The Republican Party except for that one sliver doesnt hate donald trump. On some level, youve got to figure out a way to kind of eulogize him before you bury him. No one is on that path. How do we get to a one on one . And who is the likeliest republican to codify a message that pries away the party from trumps iron grip . Those are excellent questions. You can see it in how ron desantis has been moving and changing his message. He keeps trying to find that magic formula of how to get that 50 to 60 of the electorate thats open to voting for somebody thats not donald trump to come over to his side. At first, it was im donald trump without the baggage, im a winner. Hes not a winner. That really didnt get much traction. Then it was im the woke warrior. Donald trump didnt spend enough time as president going after woke corporations and Critical Race Theory and our schools. That hasnt gotten enough traction. Today he sits down with nbc news and says, well, basically donald trump wasnt particularly effective as president , he didnt get that wall built, he listened to fauci too much, he didnt do enough on following through. Well see if that works. I think these debates are going to show us which candidate we think is the strongest to make a case, maybe a case that lands. And then we have iowa and New Hampshire that are going to filter almost everybody else out. Lets be clear, its not as if the vote is split like it was in 2016 where you had trump with 28 to 35 and everybody else splitting the rest. Its trump right now with 40 to 50 of the vote and one candidate in the teens and everybody else in the single digits. Its pretty clear there isnt room for a lot of candidates. Its a question of which candidate. The Cook Political Reports amy walter, thank you. Great insights. Im going to take your great insights to walter. Walter, we grew up along the southern gulf coast. You grew up basically in the same sort of political environment i did. As amy said, it was the others. I always talked about my dad during watergate saying the eastern establishment, the elite media, the leftwing professors, everybody was going after nixon. It was never nixons fault. It was always us against them until my dad read about the tapes. It seems amys onto something here. Yeah, theyll talk about the First Amendment. And then Something Else will come up and theyll end up talking about hunter biden, or theyll talk about whatever is there for them. But at the end of the day, isnt it really just us against them . Theyre going after our guy, so we have to defend him no matter what. Yeah. What amy said about the rallying of the troops when hes under siege is true. And, yes, you and i fully understand coming from the south that populist feeling. What you need is somebody to explain it very clearly why were not in favor of authoritarian government, why this isnt really a free speech issue. And to get to the point that heilemann asked amy about, how does it resolve . The one way i think it could resolve in the Republican Party is a chris sununu strategy, which is that he choreographed a New Hampshire primary, he says whoever comes out ahead and the strongest there we should all rally around. So if iowa and New Hampshire and the debates filter and allow one person to be the person taking it on and that person can give a message that doesnt antagonize or rally the troops behind the beleaguered donald trump, but can say heres how we move forward, you know, there may be a way out of this. Walter isaacson, thank you very much for coming on this morning. Coming up on morning joe, a look at the dangerous Online Harassment trend of swatting when a fake 911 sends police to homes with guns drawn. Nbcs jacob ward joins us with the story of one couple that has been swatted 40 times and what the fbi is doing to tackle the growing problem across the country. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. So, youve got the power of xfinity at home. Now take it outside with Xfinity Mobile. Like speed . Its the Fastest Mobile Service around. With the best price for two lines of unlimited. Only 30 bucks a line per month. Thats hundreds in savings a year when you wave bye to the other guys. No wonder Xfinity Mobile is one of the Fastest Growing mobile services. You really shouldnt walk out the front door without it. Switch today at xfinitymobile. Com every business thats why comcast business de is launching theal. Mobile made free event. With our business internet, new and existing customers can get one year of unlimited mobile for free. Its our best internet. Powered by the next generation 10g network and with 99. 9 reliability. Plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. Its the mobile made free eventhappening now. Get started for just 49. 99 a month. Plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. Comcast business, powering possibilities. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu appears to be walking back his original plans to overhaul his nations judicial system. In an interview with bloomberg, netanyahu expressed a willingness to stop short of implementing every change originally proposed by his government. Specifically, netanyahu said he still wants to change the makeup of israels judge selection committee, but not pursue any additional steps of the reform after that. What he calls the reform, what other people call a power grab. Katty kay, this is the second time netanyahu has had to back down. It has shown quite surpriing resilience by the israeli people that continue fighting these plans of his to go in the direction weve seen orban go in hungary. Yeah. The israeli population, who have been out on the streets now in large numbers twice, clearly feel this is about democracy in their country. You have a whole bunch of young techsavvy startup entrepreneurs, the people responsible for driving the surge in Economic Growth in israel over the last few years who are particularly not happy with this, who tend to be more liberal leaning, who dont like the way netanyahu is trying to take the country. In a way hes playing with fire, because if they were to decide to take their expertise elsewhere, it wouldnt be great for the israeli economy. Netanyahu is nothing if not dogged and determined and persistent, as hes shown over years and multiple indictments and trials over the course of his time in politics. So lets see where this heads if he tries this again. Lets see if he keeps pushing this agenda to satisfy the right of the party. Federal prosecutors are trying new methods to track down people involved in pandemic fraud. Investigates are putting together Strike Force Teams to steer local officials toward potential fraudsters in their area. The Small Business Inspector General estimates more than 200 billion was handed out to potentially fraudulent actors. Roughly 30 billion has been seized or returned to the agency. And the fbi is taking action on a prank that can have terrifying outcomes. Its called swatting. And the scheme can pull Police Resources away from real emergencies. Joining us now to explain is Nbc News Technology Correspondent jacob ward. Whats going on . Online harassment can be horrific. For one couple, an endless loop of swatting incidents in which police are mistakenly sent to their address over and over has become a nightmare they cannot seem to escape. In 2018, Patrick Tomlinson posted a casual tweet. I said i personally never found the comedian Norm Mcdonald funny. Swatting is when false calls trick 911 dispatchers into sending an allout armed response. The experience can be terrifying. I make my way downstairs to find that there are half a dozen police with pistols drawn, shotguns, ar15s, flashlights all pointed at my head. I am pulled out of my house and handcuffed. And not just once. Our house has been swatted 42 times now. Police come to your door . Yes. No Central Agency tracks swatting, but one estimate put the number at more than 1,000 incidents in 2019 alone. Over six days in april, at least nine universities were victims. Its estimated each incident costs communities more than 10,000. Patrick and nikki are still constantly harassed. They use voice synthesizers and other technology to mask their identity. Maybe you should get a real job. Then again, youll be able to learn a trade in prison. At the same time, they cant get the police to stop coming. The Milwaukee Police department tell us they have been to patrick and nikkis house at least 40 times. In a statement they told us mpd has a duty to respond to calls for service in order to ensure no one is in danger. Now the fbi is getting involved, creating a swatting command center so Police Departments can exchange information. We know the problem exists throughout the country. I think the fbi recognizes that we have Resources Available to help track whats going on, to be able to easily share information with one another to report incidents. Meanwhile, patrick and nikki are in their fifth year of daily harassment. What has it done . Its taken aware our sanctuary. We dont feel safe in our own home. People have died from it. There is no excuse. A waste of Public Resources and a nightmare for victims. Now, the reason i am bringing this to you this morning is a topic i know is near and dear to your heart. Thats section 230. Patrick and nikki, since we filed that piece, have been trying to unmask their anonymous harassers in the place they gather, which is an online forum specifically set up as a place for folks to coordinate and talk about these two. To this day, theres an extraordinary amount of abusive language on this site. These two sued in order to try to get the names of the online harassers behind that site, but judges in california denied under section 230 their right to go to a company like cloudfare or google to ask for those names. They are in the position of being held in contempt by a court over not being able to pay legal fees to their harassers now that they have lost this. Not only are they getting daily harassment, but because of section 230 and its misapplication, these two could lose their house or go to prison for trying to unmask their online harassers. The insanity of all this, jacob, lets talk about not only section 230 but how Tech Companies are able to live by their own rules. If this were people meeting somewhere else, they would figure out a way around it, but for some reason thats not the case here. Section 230 is one issue. The second issue is how stupid can milwaukees Police Department be, 42 times, how stupid can they be . When are they going to stop coming to this guys house . Youre absolutely correct about it. When we speak to milwaukee pd and other Police Departments across the country, they say they have a professional and ethical responsibility to show up for whatever the 911 call is about ready to go. If they show up underarmed or underprepared even to what turns out to be a fake call, its a dereliction of duty. They have toned it down with patrick and nikki over time. At this point, theyre showing up and beginning to leave a note. The problem is they dont have a coordinating effort to create a list of people who have been victims of this kind of crime, but its not even quite yet a crime. It occupies this weird space where technology and Law Enforcement are falling away from one another and victims are caught in the middle. Jacob ward, thank you very much for your reporting on this. Coming up, barbie can add billionaire to her credentials. The movie is making Box Office History two weeks since its release. Well give the numbers. Plus, actor jamie foxx is apologizing after one of his instagram posts drew accusations of antisemitism. Well tell you what hes saying and how another prominent actress became involved. Thats next on morning joe. Thats next on morning joe. Before planning the wedding your bad hip was really acting up. Then, you heard about mako roboticassisted hip replacement. It starts with a ct scan to pinpoint the problem. That becomes a personalized, 3d plan to guide your doctor during surgery. Mako can help lead to better outcomes, like less pain and shorter recovery times. The lifetime of a hip implant is limited, and revision surgery may be required. 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I think its probably worked beyond hollywoods biggest dreams. People are flooding back into the theaters. Its crazy. Ive been out here in los angeles for the better part of the last month or so. You know, this is a very grim season out here in hollywood in almost every respect because of the Writers Strike and the actors strike. The strike has everything immobilized out here. People are now talking about we may not end the strike until early next year. Theyll attempt to get the talent and the suits together late last week ended almost immediately as soon as it started. Everyone is down in the dumps about everything except for this. This is a big deal, because the question has been since the pandemic whether the theatrical movie business had a future. Apart from the top gun reboot, there had not been a real in the theater cinemadriven blockbuster. Now you have two of them, the two most unlikely tandem you can imagine, barbie obviously the dominant movie in terms of box office, but oppenheimer well over 400 million in box office. Its astonishing. Its the one sign of hope right now in the Entertainment Industry is that these two movies have taken the country and the world by storm. The new ceo of mattell deserves every pay raise he got. He came in thinking were going to not just have a doll, but were going to make barbie a media franchise. Im going to see it tonight. Actually, its interesting, i had the choice between going to see barbie and oppenheimer. I wanted a summer feelgood movie and thats the one i chose. Good for greta gerwig. I love that. I love that too. And actor jamie foxx apologized over the weekend for one of his social media posts. In a nowdeleted instagram message, the Academy Award winner wrote, quote, they killed this dude named jesus, what do you think theyll do to you . And used the hashtags fake friends. After receiving backlash that the post could be considered antisemitic, foxx responded saying, quote, i want to apologize to the Jewish Community and everyone offended by my post. I now know my choice of words caused offense, and im sorry. That was never my intent. To clarify, i was betrayed by a fake friend and thats what i meant with they and not anything more. My deepest apologies to anyone who was offended. Actress Jennifer Aniston also received backlash after she appeared to like the original instagram post. She responded to that criticism writing, quote, this really makes me sick. I did not like this post on purpose or by accident and more importantly i want to be clear to my friends or anyone hurt by this showing up in their feeds, i do not support any form of antisemitism. Coming up, actors Casey Affleck portrays our next guest in the new movie dreaming wild. Well have a look at the movie and the true story of their music that took more than 30 years to be discovered. 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Together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. Yaaay woo hoo ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. We find albums that never found an audience and try to give them a second chance. Based on all the buzz the record has got during its finest moments to twist a brian wilson phrase, dreamin wild is a godlike symphony to teenhood. Brian wilson . Yeah. Heck, lets celebrate. Youve got a gift. Youve got to use it. I believe in you boys. New york times wants to do a story on you guys. Are you kidding me . Wants it to be the kickoff for a tour. Im not sure what to do with all of it. I have spent my whole life trying to make music. Its just fun for you. Its not just fun for me. Im so happy. Just didnt know anything about the world. Things are a lot easier when i was a teenager. Im just sorry, dad, for putting you through all of it. Youre my son. I would have gladly given up all the land just to hear you play. Wow, thats part of the trailer for the new movie dreamin wild starring Casey Affleck, zooey deschanel, Walton Goggins and beau bridges. The film follows the story of two brothers, done any and joe emerson, who made their 179 album of the same name by themselves when they were teenagers in rural washington state. Their music failed to turn a profit originally, but was rediscovered online 32 years later and found new success after the music site pitchfork called it a godlike symphony to teenhood. What a story. I dont even know how to begin with this. Having the dream that you guys achieved. Artistic redemption. 30 years later. Please, its so overwhelming. Tell us about it. Joe, you got the excitement like i did when it kind of broke loose. Its surreal, exhilarating. I am completely blessed. God has blessed us big times. Its an amazing journey. So rev, they listened to music on a. M. Radio, a small town outside of spokane. They would hear songs by marvin gaye and other r b. They had no idea whether they were black and white. They were on the farm listening. They just started writing songs. It became an addiction. Their dad literally sold part of the farm to build a studio. Here we are, like tens of millions of streams later. Its an amazing story. It brings me back todays i used to go around with james brown who was like a father to me. You meet all these people that had a love for music like they had that never thought about being commercially successful. I think that is what is so exhilarating about this moving story. Donnie, let me ask you, was it that you wanted to be you and your brother wanted to be stars, or you just wanted to be musicians and get your music out there . I sense from reading the story, hearing the background of the movie, that you werent dreaming of hollywood, you were just dreaming of getting your music out there. I just love music, reverend. Just like it was everything this us out there. Theres not a lot to do out there on a farm. I grew up with 13 kids in my class. As the movie talks about, listening to music on our tractor, one radio station. I listened to everything from al green to ernest tubbs. It was about writing music and the bond we had as kids working together. It was a beautiful thing. Joe, youve had a fantastic kind of double play here. The song the music got rediscovered through the wonders of the internet a decade ago. Now theres this movie coming out. Im curious to kind of reflect a little bit on how after the first breakthrough whether people started talking about it and hearing about it, and spotify gets played hundreds of millions of times, all of a sudden to see this get brought to life on the big screen, whats it like to see that . Its one thing to hear it where you can find a new audience. But its another thing to see your story represented on the silver screen. Talk about that a little bit. Its a big breakthrough because the whole family really came together. I mean from the very beginning, just this whole years and years of working together trying to get my brothers music out there. Of course, i was with don, too. I was a big part of it, too. But then i think its just its kind of hard to really put into words. Hard to put into words. Nancy, ill toss the same question to you. Whats this been like for you . Its been a wonderful ride because ive been with donnie for 38 years. Were married but were also music partners, songwriters together. Ive enjoyed the ride since the first day i met him. We met on a blind date. Ever since then we both relate to each other through music. We have two children who are musicians, singers. Its a family thing with us. It keeps carrying on through the family. Its just a lot of respect. The movie was so respectfully bill just did a wonderful job of respecting our family. Donnie, nancy and joe emerson, thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations. Extraordinary. Come back, please. Wed love to have you back and cant wait to see the movie. The movie dreamin wild is in theaters now. The film and soundtrack feature an original new song when a dream is beautiful written and performed by donnie and nancy. Thank you all so much for being on the show this morning. That does it for us this morning. Ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. Right now on ana cabrera reports, the drum beat of Donald Trumps legal troubles intensifying this morning. 5 00 p. M. Eastern, door forget the time. Thats the timeline for a response to a protective order in the election interference case against him. How a ruling could impact this case. Also ahead, wild weather across the country. Check out this crazy flooding in alaska. A home collapsing into a river. This is in juneau. You cant keep the greatest of all time down, after losing rs