Alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 president ial election. The twice impeached former president already hit with two other criminal indictments, pleading not guilty. When it comes to the second federal indictment, trump refuses to remain silent. In a social media post yesterday trump threatened, in all caps, if you go after me, im coming after you. Which got a response from the Special Counsels office. Overnight, attorneys asked the federal judge overseeing the case to issue a protective order on trump and his legal team to limit the information they can share publicly about the case. All of this comes as trump faces a trial on four Felony Counts laid out in Special Counsel jack, smith, damning 45page indictment. Those counts include conspiracy to defraud the United States government. Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. Obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding. Conspiracy against the right to bow and to have one vote counted. That fourth charge falls under a statute originally adopted in the reconstruction era. It was part of a series of measures known as the clue clocks plan act. Before jack smith used it as a legal tool in his Criminal Case against trump, my next guest used it to challenge trumps alleged efforts to disenfranchise black voters. Joining me now is that person, janai nelson. President and Director Counsel of the Legal Defense fund. Janai, welcome back to the saturday show. Janai, excuse me, can you explain what the Ku Klux Klan Act Is, how it can be used both in your civil case and jack smiths Criminal Case . Yeah, jonathan. The Ku Klux Klan Act Is a law that has been on the books of this country since the 1870s. It was enacted very soon after the reconstruction amendments. The 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments. It was very clear that after black people in this country were given rights under the constitutional amendments that there would be in a ray of forces to deny them the ability to enjoy those rights. The ku klux klan was a Domestic Terrorist Organization that formed right after the civil war. Focusing on denying black people, black citizens in this country, the right to vote among many other constitutional rights. The Ku Klux Klan Act was used to enforce the provisions of the 14th and 15th amendments. It essentially says that any effort to intimidate or coerce or threaten anyone for the purposes of denying someone a constitutional right is in violation of u. S. Law. There is both a civil component and a criminal component. The Legal Defense of a lawsuit in November Of 2020 immediately after the november 3rd elections because we saw exactly what jack smith saw. We saw that the president in his campaign was using racial tropes. Was directly threatening voters in particular cities across the country. Calling that their votes cannot be counted. Demanding that their votes be rejected because he wanted to create the facade that he, somehow, won the election. You cannot manipulate the votes of black citizens in this country for that purpose. That is unlawful, it is illegal, that is why we brought a lawsuit, immediately after the elections we were very pleased to see the colonel indictment follow just this past week. Janai, a last question for you. Two part question, real quickly. Where it is a lawsuit stand . And, does the fact that your c goes after trump sibley, and jack smiths suit goes after him criminally, does your suit help jack smiths case. Or, does jack smiths case help your case . Or do both cases help each other . Thank you for that multi part question. First, our salute is still pending. Trump and his campaign tried to throw it out, they tried to dismiss it. A court said absolutely not. We were able to amend our complaint and expanded to include the fact that we have discovered postelection. Frankly, i think it is the third choice that the series will likely inform one another. I would like to think that much of what we laid out in our complaint was useful to the Department Of Justice and seeing how the story could be told and how the claims could be framed. So we certainly are looking forward to seeing what is revealed in discovery in this criminal suit. Janai nelson of the Legal Defense fund. As always, thank you very much for coming to the saturday show. Joining me now Anthony Collie former director of the office of Public Affairs at the Department Of Justice and an msnbc justice and Legal Affairs analyst. Neil county all, former Acting Solicitor General of the United States, msnbc legal analyst and host of the podcast, courtside. And maya wylie. Civil rights attorney and president and ceo of the Leadership Conference on civil and human rights. Thank you all, as always, for coming to the show. Neil, i will start with you. After that threatening social media post Special Counsel is asking for a protective order on trump and his lawyers preventing them from publicly sharing information about the case. How is that different from a gag order . It is different. First of all, i think trumps behavior last night reveals him to be acting like a guilty person. Acting like a mob boss. His tweet basically jonathan if you think about it is the same as their crime he is accused of. Trying to win it all cost. Breaking any rules. Him its trying to win the trial. Before its trying to win the election. Trying to win the count of the election. The judge has already admonished him in the proceedings on thursday not to intimidate witnesses. That is a rare admonishment. You dont really hear that, normally, in a Criminal Case. Trump earned it. That is not quite a gag order. That is saying you have to play by the rules. We want a fair trial for both sides it means dont go threatening witnesses and jurors and things like that. Trump goes ahead within 24 hours he couldnt even make it a whole day without launching into basically intimidation tactics. The Justice Department, last, night special Prosecutor Jack Smith did not say that this is a crime what you did. Instead they brought it to the judges attention in a different way an important way. Look, we are supposed to be giving donald trump all of this discovery, including grandeur transcripts which are very sensitive. We are worried about doing so without some sort of order that says to trump that you cannot use this and we could to the media or use it to intimidate any witnesses that came before the grand jury. Trump has acted ridiculously. I suspect the judge will have a hearing on trumps tweet yesterday. One last point just in the conversation youre having before, i think it is notable to the names of the acts that donald trump is accused of violating, the federal laws. The Ku Klux Klan Act here in the d. C. Prosecution. The espionage act in the florida prosecution. This is not the way former president of the United States should be behaving. No, absolutely. This is all very serious. Maya, trumps next hearing is scheduled for august 28th when a trial date is expected to be said. How soon could it trial star . Could the Speedy Trial Act Be Overridden Given who the defendants and the looming president ial election . Only the judge will decide both of those questions. The truth is that we know the federal government wants to move very quickly in this case. As quickly as possible, for all the right reasons, i would argue. Also the judge is going to balance that with the fairness to the defense. To go back to neils point, it is such an important one as we are looking at how this is going to get scheduled and played out in the judge is going to have to spend a lot of time in this case. Yesterday we saw exactly why. Donald trump has a long pattern of doing a lot of things in terms of intimidation and using his public profile to build pressure, including on those who are supposed to participate neutrally in the case. Remember what donald trump did when roger stone was on trial . He started attacking the jurors in the case and had to be admonished. He wasnt even a participant or a party in that case. Its is a pattern but theres also gonna be delay pattern. Theyre gonna try to show and do everything in their power to use the court of Public Opinion and intimidation and also to make sure that the Trial Counter works in their favor. The judge is gonna have to determine what is the right thing for fairness and justice. I do expect this to move very quickly. Anthony, yesterday in alabama donald trump accused the Justice Department awaiting two and a half years as, he says, until he was leading in the polls to bring charges against him. You were a Senior Adviser to attorney general, merrick garland. Is that remotely true . Not at all, jonathan. Thank you for having me. I was at the Doj At November Of Last year when the attorney general made the decision to, number one, appoint a Special Counsel. Number two, select jack smith for the role. He was criticized from many corners at that time. I think it was the appropriate decision. It put some distance between this decision that we just saw this week and the politics of this moment, right . Jack smith is a career prosecutor. He is not a part of dojs political workforce. That is important to know. The other thing, i would like to go back to your previous questions to both neil and maya. They deal with who this judge is. That is so important for your viewers to understand. Judge chutkan is a jamaican borne jurist. She is well known in legal theater coast for being both fair and tough. Importantly, on more than one instance in her courtroom she has charged sentence january 6th defendants to even more time than the government asked for. She is the real deal. I am pleased that someone like her, someone who is both fair and scott is the one whos going to oversee the second trial, the second federal trial of the former president. Neil, my, i am sure that both of you know judge chutkan. I do not know her, but i know of her. One really powerful line from one of the decisions, president s are not king. Donald trump is no longer president. And the three minutes we have before we go to break, my, i will go to you first and then go to neil. What should we know, that you know, about judge chutkan . I do not know the judge personally. I wanted to make that clear. I think this is the point, i absolutely agree with anthony. The Public Record is very clear about who this judge is. I do want to go back to neil, again, on the Ku Klux Klan Act and on the history of Donald Trumps behavior. She is a black woman. We saw roger stone put a female judge in the crosshairs in social media when he was on trial. We saw donald trump engage in similar behavior. We have seen black women, like ruby moss, been threatened as Public Servants under the guise of the lies that donald trump has levied and endangered their lives. I think it is incredibly important to understand that this could be utilized in a very, very, disturbing way. We should all be vigilant about that. Neil . Anthony is right that this is a tough judge. I want to say that tough on everyone, including tough on the prosecutors. You know . Ive seen her in court. She is remarkably well prepared. She is really fair. This is a judge, basically, was a public defender for many years. A criminal defense lawyer. She brings that experience to the bench with her. This is someone who, i, think boasted should be pleased with andrew. Obviously, trump was not pleased. He is trying to tweak to get this case out of d. C. And change venue to west virginia. He says its more fair because he has more voters that support him there. That, is of course, not a thing. That is not a legal argument. It is going nowhere fast. The better legal argument is, washington d. C. Have a lot of pretrial publicity that is biased against me. But that argument wont cusp mustard either. Its the same argument that we faced in the george floyd murder. You cant try this case in minneapolis because the pretrial publicity. The judge there said the Pre Trial Publicity has blanketed every jurisdiction in the country. There is no better place than where the crime occurred. Same thing here. This crime occurred in my place, launch and in d. C. That is the place where it should be tried. That is what the constitution. Says try in the place where the crime occurred. All right, dont go anywhere. Were going to continue this conversation and bring up something that one of trumps lawyers said during an interview on fox news on thursday. My allstar panel will be back, after this break. Is break mr. Clean magic eraser powers through tough messes. So it makes it look like i spent hours cleaning and you know i didnt. It makes my running shoe look like new. Its amazing wow, it makes it look like. I dont have kids at all. Its so good, it makes it look like i have magical powers with 80 less scrubbing, mr. Clean magic eraser makes cleaning easy. Also available in sheets tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. That can be analyzed by ai in real time. So researchers can identify which areas are at risk. And help life underwater flourish. Meet the future. A chef. A designer. And, ooh, an engineer. All learning to save and spend their money with chase. 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Nows the time to see what americas a more effective total body fitness solution. announcer aerotrainers ergodynamic design and four patented air chambers create maximum Muscle Activation for better results in less time. It allows for over 20 exercises. Do the aerotrainer super crunch, push ups, aero squat. It inflates in 30 seconds. Aerotrainer is tested to support over 500 pounds. Lose weight, look great, and be healthy. Go to aerotrainer. Com. My allstar panel is back thats aero trainer. Com. With me. Neil and maya, i want you to listen to trumps attorney, john laura, what he had to say on fox on thursday. Ultimately, what President Trump said is, lets go with option d. Lets just halt, lets pause the voting and allow the State Legislatures to take one last look and make a determination as to whether or not the elections were handled fairly. That is constitutional law. That is not an issue of criminal activity. Neil, was that a defense . Or did he just admit that trump committed a crime . They admitted that its something donald trump admitted himself earlier. So, i dont think that attorney made any particular news in that statement. Basically, what theyre both saying is trump exercised his First Amendment rights. What jack smith has done, in this relented tightknit on page two, is head that off right away. Trump could believe whatever the heck he wants, but you cant go and be ordering people to basically have fake electors in seven states, try to disrupt the most solemn counts our nation has on january six and the like. Those are crimes. This is an attempted coup. Its illegal every day of every week. And maya, that is what makes this admission by lauro so incredible. Hes saying yeah, the president has free speech, but here is the action that he took that makes this a crime. Knowing that, jack smith addresses this directly in the indictment. He says number one, yeah. The president , former president , is free to lie. But he is not free to take an act to block the vote counting, and in the indictment, the indictment asserts the very opposite, actually, of what mr. Lauro said, which is also a crime. Both of them are. Its an admission. But in the indictment, he says donald trump says to pence, you know, do you one of these two things, but coconspirator to, john eastman said. Either set them back to the states or just unilaterally block them, pence says your own lawyer is telling you i dont have the power to do this. Meaning eastman. And trump says, thats okay. Because i actually like the other option better. And the other option is, just unilaterally declare the president. And speaking of the coconspirators, six coconspirators are mentioned in this indictment. The first five have been identified. But mark meadows is noticeably missing. I bring this up because paragraph if the five in the indictment caught my eye. It addresses the plan to expand the fake electors scheme and states quote, this expansion was forecast by emails that defendants Chief Of Staff sent on december six, forwarding the wisconsin memo to Campaign Staff and writing, we just need to have someone coordinating the electors for states. Neil, after reading that, how can mark meadows not be considered a coconspirator . Yeah, i think mark meadows is deep in its. I think the findings of the january six committee, yeah, he is not in the indictment. But we are all trying to figure out exactly what is going on. There are six other people, as you say, who were named or identified as coconspirators. But not mark meadows. Some suggestion that hes cooperating with jack smith. He may not have flipped, but he is cooperating. He is facing criminal exposure and probably trying to work out some sort of arrangement. I want to get both neal and you anthony on this. But ill come to you first. You believe this trial should be televised. Why . I do. I think the bright light of transparency, its the best disinfectant against misinformation. And theres one of two ways to do this. Jonathan, i guess that the judicial conference of the United States has the Policy Making Body A federal judges can change the rules. They meet semi annually. The next meeting is in september. It should be on the top of their list. But second, second way to do it is be an act of congress. So, if the judicial conference doesnt take that action, my hope is congress does. And neil wrote an amazing oped about this. In the Washington Post on thursday. The only bone i have to pick with your opeds i didnt write it first. [laughter] but other than that, it was pretty perfect. Nelsons, your name has been invoked, i was going to go on. This you did write an oped in the Washington Post, which went online and was witness today. The, fourth, fifth beat went online on thursday. So, what was your argument . Anthony, first of all, you inspired the oped. Even if you didnt write it,. Thank you, thank, you thank you. The basic argument is the criminal trial in this case is the most important trial of our lifetimes. One of the handful of most imported cases in the history of the United States. And this trial is in the name of the American People. And it is paid for by our tax dollars. This court is paid for by our tax dollars. We the people have an absolute right to see it. And one important reason is because trump is a master of disinformation, a master of Whipping Up Rumor Mongers and conspiracy theorists, and all of that is going to happen, unless this trial is televised. Its going to happen anyway, but the best antidote to that is our great justice, Louis Brandeis said, its the best disinfectant. Let the American Public watched this trial for themselves. Trump attorney knows that says he supports cameras in the courtroom for this trial. I suspect that donald trump will walk away from that, because he is afraid of sunlight away vampires are afraid of sunlight and garlic. But you know, he said it for now. I think we should take him up on that and get this trial televised. The American People deserve it. I was going to come to my wiley, but were out of time. To, why gild the lily when youve got a Vampire Comment . Closing out the segment. Neal katyal, maya wylie, anthony coley. Thank you all very much for coming to the saturday show. Up next, republican reaction to trumps latest indictment. Some are turning their anger towards president biden, and others, on trump. You are watching the saturday show. Urda show we all need fiber for our digestive health, but less than 10 of us get enough each day. Good thing Metamucil Gummies are an easy way to get prebiotic, plantbased fiber. With the same amount of fiber as 2 cups of broccoli. Metamucil gummies the easy way to get your daily fiber. 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Im a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. As of right now, donald trump, is facing 78 charges spreading across three indictments. Two of them federal. If he were to receive the maximum sentence, he could theoretically serve nearly 650 years in prison. While the twice impeached, bryson cited former president is unlikely to serve jail time, the charges are serious. Which makes his Many Republican defenders and theyre escalating attacks and ethics in his defense that much more baffling and concerning. And the conviction in d. C. Against donald trump is not legitimate. We need to win in 2024 to stop this crazy crepe. You know what . You shouldnt be prosecuted for your thoughts. And the difference here is, when Hillary Clinton said it, Nothing Happened to her. When they said it in georgias election, Nothing Happened to them, either. You know what . When the dnc said . It Nothing Happened to them, either. So, stop using government to go after people who politically disagree with you. That is. Wrong that it should stop now. Joining me now, charlie sykes, editor at large of the bulwark and msnbc political analyst and columnist charlie, thank you for coming to the saturday show. Speaker mccarthy was almost choked up in his defense of trump. Whats bad about . First of all, is this real life we are living through . Watching donald trump in court, a former president of the United States, trying to overthrow the election and the Republican Party attacking the legitimacy of the entire criminal Justice System . That was performative on Kevin Mccarthys part. Of course, donald trump is not being charged for his thoughts. He is being charged for what he did, for his actions. For his conspiracy, for his attempts to obstruct. But it is remarkable watching the republicans continue to sort of upped the ante. I mean, its one thing. In 2015, donald trump was a reckless narcissist running for president , and the republicans decided to make a bargain with him. Now, he is morphing into a deranged, would be fascist, and the republicans are saying get, were going to go along with this. Okay, so, if theyre not motivated by principle, what did you think theyd be motivated by Self Preservation . Leaving aside constitutional principle . Because think about what Kevin Mccarthy and Lindsey Graham are doing. Theyre basically saying yeah, we are going to mortgage the party in 2024 to this mans obsession and his criminality. Were going to relitigate but law and we are all in on this man who every single day seems to be compensating and daring the judges to take some action against him. So, you know, charlie. Im just wondering, is that die hard republican support of trump starting to soften . But latest Reuters Ipsos poll Shows Nearly Half of Republican Voters say they would not vote for him if he is a convicted, if he is convicted of a felony. This comes after people of iowa voters shows some softening supports in iowa, compared to national support. Yeah, but somebodys got to do something. This is the problem of collective action. The Republican Party has to decide, is it going to stand up to the hardcore base . This is a party that is afraid of its own base. Otherwise, they would look at donald trump and say hey, we have to move on. Do we really want to do all of this . With the exception of Chris Christie and Asa Hutchison and will hurd, they are not willing to do this. And can i just say with that, if you cannot figure out a way to run against someone who is facing 78 Felony Charges and 70 50 years in prison, who has already been held legally liable for rape, you should probably get out of the business of politics. And yet, that is what we are looking at right now in the Republican Party. You have leading republican challengers. How do we run against this guy . What do we say . Look. Look who he is how can you not run against the sky . Right. To your point, there is a president ial candidate who is speaking up. Finally on wednesday. Former Vice President mike pence had this scathing rebuke of trump after the release of the indictment. Listen to this. I really do believe that anyone who puts themself over the constitution should never be president of the United States. And anyone who asks someone else to put themselves over the constitution should never be president of the United States again. I dismissed it out of hand, but sadly, the president was surrounded by a group of crack pot lawyers thats kept telling him what his itching years wanted to hear. Internally, that was on wednesday. He has been saying that repeatedly since then. Last night, he was booed at a town hall. Do you think pence will continue to go down this path, or will he fall back in line . Well, i mean, if the past is prologue, he will fall back in line. But good for mike pence in doing all of this. You can tell he serious, jonathan, because he selling merchandise, the haves, the teachers, as a two honest. He is going off on all of this. But this is the challenge right now. Anyone who takes position that hes taking is going to be booed. Hes going to be attacked by the maga world. But the point that hes making, and the other republicans are making, this is really crucial. That this is coming from inside the house. These are other republicans,. People like bill barr, who had been, you know, so complicit in the trump world saying, this man should not be allowed back in the oval office. Whether that actually makes a difference, i dont know. Because it hasnt so far. But you know, at some point, something cant go on forever vocal on forever. But i thought that was hopeful that mike pence, i wish she had done earlier. I wish we had done it stronger. But w s sticks to it and well see whether or not thats the kind of message we get on the debate stage. Im interested to see how that plays out. And jonathan, real quickly, desantis had some comments yesterday leaning into his new tactic in his battle against trump, for the nomination. Watch this. I want to talk to you about it quickly on the other side. Ive said many times, the election is what it is. All those theories that were put out did not prove to be troop. What ive also said is the way you conduct a good election, if people of confidence in, you dont change the rules in the middle of the game. So, charlie, he says did not prove to be true. That is some daylight. Will that daylight turn tonight . I dont know. Ron desantis has proven hes not very good at this, is he . Hes been a very disappointing candidate. I think one of the Big Questions now is whether the Republican Party, the donor class, whatever is left of the establishment or the rational part of the party, its going to say look, ron desantis is not the guy who is going to pull the trigger. Here we need to stop donald trump. We cannot have 2024 be a referendum on this big lie, which they are now all admitting is a big lie. So, are we going to see another candidate . Are we going to see a Glenn Youngkin or is somebody else going to step up . We dont know. But ron desantis just dont think has the instinct to or the judgment to effectively take down jonnel trump right now. I think weve seen that over the last six months. All, right we have to leave it there. Charlie sykes as always, thank you for coming to the saturday show. And up next, why economists are saying that historic Credit Downgrade of the United States is a warning. Thats after the break. Thats after the break bug spray works best. When your family actually wears it. Get odorfree eight hour protection from mosquitoes and ticks without the ick. Zevo onbody repellent. People love it. Bugs hate it. Mlb chooses tmobile for business for 5g solutions. To not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. Nows the time to see what americas largest 5g network can do for your business. At pnc bank, you can find us in big cities and small towns across the us, where our focus is to always support the people who live and work there. Because you call these communities home, and we do too. Pnc bank. And there he is. Chaz. The rec leagues selfcrowned pickleball king. Do you just bow down . No you dethrown the king. Pedialyte. 3x the electrolytes. In a move that shocked investors earlier this week, the Credit Ratings agency downgraded the United States from its pristine triple a bond rating to aa . And one of the key Ratings Drivers . Erosion of governance. According to the credit agency, the repeated that limit political standoffs and lastminute resolutions have eroded confidence in fiscal management. And not mentioned in the downgrade report, but factored in the decision, according to a senior director at fitch, the january six insurrection. Joining me now, Washington Post economic columnist and Editorial Board member, heather long. Heather, welcome back to the saturday show. As you know, this isnt the first time a Credit Rating agency has called into question the governance and stability of the United States, is it . Yeah, thats exactly right. It feels like deja vu. We saw the same thing with that s and p downgrade of u. S. Debt back in 2011. But then it made a lot more sense in august of 2011, there was that huge debt ceiling to buckle. We almost hit the debt ceiling with obama and the House Republicans pulling a little bit, a hostage. They refused in the house to raise the debt limit. Until the very last second. So, it seemed more like snp reacting to a new political situation, where here we are, all these years later, and yes, certainly, the politics and partisanship has gotten worse. But, and this is what the white house had some good grounds to push back this year, they did pass the Debt Limit Deal on time. And it even reduced a little bit of our spending going forward. So, if anything, the pictures sitting here august 2023 looks a little better than he would have thought a few months ago. And you know, you tweeted this Credit Downgrade is, and you say, a call to action. What does that action look like . Heres the part of the Fitch Ratings downgrade i think makes sense. That is they say look, but long term picture of the United States is not a good one. Youve got an aging society. Youve got rising costs, and theres just no appetite to raise taxes or to rein in or tweak even Something Like Social Security. The president dislike, were not even going to touch Social Security. And that is what is really concerning. So, thats where you see the fitch having some resonating but they did, is people are seeing at it and saying whats going to happen in ten years . Theres not going to be a crisis tomorrow or five years, but maybe in 15 years, in 30 years . And thats whats really frustrating here. Theres just no appetite in congress or even in the white house, really, too begin to tackle these longer term challenges that we know have been coming for decades. Right. We remember from the State Of The Union address, the president who says hands off Social Security and medicaid got supports by Standing Ovation from republicans for that promise to keep hands off Social Security and medicaid. So, congress is currently on track for a potential Government Shutdown if a spending deal isnt reached by the end of september. Which is the end of the fiscal year. How will that likely play with other Credit Agencies . Yeah, its an interesting one. Theres three main Credit Agencies. Right now, two of the three have downgraded slightly u. S. Deaths. So, were no longer on par with switzerland and germany and other of those aaarated countries. So you are right. This is the type of risk that fitch was warning about when they set the erosion of governance over the past 20 years. But the shutdown hasnt happened. Yet so, lets remember that the longest shutdown that weve seen over the u. S. Government, at least in modern history, was under President Trump, at 35day shutdown in early 2019. So, is there going to be a shut down right in this time . We dont know. I think theres a lot of reasons to be optimistic that congress, republicans of congress, at the white house certainly dont want to see it happen again. Heather long of the Washington Post, thank you very much for coming back to the saturday show. Thanks, jonathan. And coming, up a major break in the case of oj sibley, a black gate man who was stabbed to death for dancing. But latest, after the break. , after the break. dad we got our Subaru Forester wilderness to discover all of the places that make us feel something more. vo subaru is the National Park foundations largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. Looking for a smarter way to mop . Introducing the new swiffer powermop. An allinone Cleaning Tool that gives you a mop and bucket clean in half the time. Our new cleaning pad has hundreds of Scrubbing Strips that absorb and lock dirt away, and it has a 360degree swivel head that goes places a regular mop just cant. So, you can clean your home faster than ever. Dont mop harder, mop smarter, with the new swiffer powermop. Tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. Officials say a suspect is so researchers can help life underwater flourish. In custody now following the fatal attack on a black gay man who was killed after dancing at a gastrulation in brooklyn. According to witnesses, last saturday, 28yearold professional dancer and choreographer, oj sibley, was playing music and evoking with his friends when a group of men approached them, shouting anti lgbtq slurs and telling them to stop. After a back and forth, one of the men fatally stabbed simply. In the wake of the attacks, tributes are pouring in, including from beyonce, the artist whose music sibley was evoking to at the time of the attack. She posted a simple message on her website quote, rest in power oj sibley. Joining me now, were shot roberson, president of color for change. Rashad, thank you very much for coming back to the show. We are both black gay men,. And i didnt know oj sibley, but his killing hit me hard, because it is a reminder that we arent safe anywhere, doing anything in our own skin. What about you, roshan . The same. First, i want to extend my prayers and my thoughts to his friends, his family, and our community, jonathan, right . You think youve won some things. You see progress happening but then we are constantly seeing these reminders of just how valuable we are to some people. Just how much dignity and respect can be extended to us. How much can be ripped away because of someones beliefs or someones fears or the signals that someone has gotten from the larger society, from our politicians, from our media, from larger culture about what our value is and what will the consequences before any actions against us. And so this does hit incredibly hard. As a person who leads Workarounds Civil Rights every day to change, we are in and unwritten rules. It just makes me think of all the work we still have to do that the laws are not enough, that the system changes not enough, and that we constantly have to push and challenge to force things to change that simply do not want to change on their own. As im listening to you, im thinking in that work that you do at color of change, youve got lots of folks who are members. Lots of folks who are impacted by the work that you do. How do you keep, particularly the young people, from losing hope that progress is possible . These are our lives, right . Every single day, we want to wake up and not just survive, but we want to experience hope, success, joy, love, right . So, when i think about what does it mean to keep people invested, it is about finding the strategic actions, the ways people can engage, the ways we point people towards what the next step is, but leading into the fact that human beings want to be able to fight for a better tomorrow. They want to experience a world that is on their side. So, recognizing this sort of aspiration that is at the heart of human beings, and the aspiration at the heart of black folks, of black queer folks, of black lgbtq folks, of our community, the ways in which we have made this country and its democracy possible, the ways in which weve contributed. It is beauty and culture and arts and how that can be monetized on one hand, and attacked on the other hand. And knowing those things, for me, makes me want to fight even harder, find ways for people to feel like they can fight not just for survival, but fight for drawing. You know, that one thing that gave me a little glimmer of hope was seeing the length of a smile in your face as you were answering that, because it does speak to the hope. One more thing, rashad. And upcoming report shows a 52 increase in lgbtq hate crimes around the country in 2022. And the 28 increase in antitrans hate crimes. How do we stop this . This is the cultural work we have to do. It is also about Holding Leaders Accountable with big mics. We now, we saw just this week, the scientists and the Florida Board Of Education go directly after teaching about gender and sexuality in a College Level psychology course we watched the College Board stand up to a, and we watch Companies Like interlocked, international bachelorette, and cambridge assessment cave into those demands. We have to hold leaders accountable. , enablers accountable. We have to push and challenge a culture that sends messages that we are disposable, that our stories dont matter, that our lives are not important and worthy of teaching. That there is something wrong with us. And at the intersection of what it means to be black and what it means to be lgbtq, what it means to be trans, and what it means to be queer is knowing that we are under attack. But we have to band together and we have to fight. And i fundamentally believe that as these attacks come, while i continue to hope and continue to see is we make sure we stand in the way of any of the wedges that may come up in our communities. Any of the ways in which we may stand in solidarity across all the communities that are under attack, because those that are coming for queer folks today are coming for black folks tomorrow, are coming for reproductive rights of women at the next day, and so many of us have to live intersectional lives and intersectional experiences. So the work ahead, the progress ahead, whether its fighting for the 20 through the 24 election, or whether its simply fighting for the type of cultural change that allows us to live and breathe and sleep and eat, all of those things are part of the work ahead. So, thank you, jonathan, for doing this story. But also, to everyone who is standing up and speaking out. Thank you. Amen, amen, amen. Rashad robinson, president s of color of change. Thank you very much for coming back to the saturday show. That will do it for me. Thank you for joining us. Be sure to tune in tomorrow through the sunday show, when former congresswoman stephanie murphy, a member of the january 6th select committee, joins us live to discuss a historic and legal impact of Donald Trumps latest indictment. Thats tomorrow at 9 am eastern, right here on msnbc. Remember to follow us on twitter, instagram, and tiktok using the handle, at weekend capehart. Dont go anywhere, my friends. Ali velshi is next with more news. News tv try Tide Power Pods with 85 more tide in every pod. Who needs that much more tide . Crashing Sounds everyones gonna need more tide. Its a mess out there. Thats why theres 85 more tide in every power pod. See . Baby ah. fan 1 there ya go thats what im talkin about tide in every power pod. josh allen is this your plan to watch the game today . hero fan uh, yea. 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Just one day after his latest arraignment, during which he was warned by the Magistrate Judge that it is quote, a crime to try to influence or terror or to threaten or attempt to bribe a witness or any other person who may have information about your case or to retaliate against anyone for providing information about your case to the prosecution, or to otherwise obstruct the administration of justice and quote. Its saturday, august 5th. Im alex she velshi. We begin with the latest in the third criminal indictment of donald trump. In a new court filing late last night, we got proof that the