It always is. Kroft i take the fact that youre still giving interviews that youre aging better than you thought you would. I think thats perfectly true. Each book feels like my last book, and then i think, like a dedicated alcoholic, that one more wont do me any harm. Kroft David Cornwell is not a functioning alcoholic, but hes created a stableful of imperfect characters over the years as john la carre, a name he does not answer to. To its an abstraction that exists in his writing studio and on the cover of his books, like a spys name on a phoney passport. Looking after la carre, keeping myself young, keeping the critical nature of life whizzing in my head, thats being la carre. Im steve kroft. Im lesley stahl. Im scott pelley. Im bill whitaker. Im anderson cooper. Its a lot easier to make decisions when you know what comes next. 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Wertheim its a story as old as cities themselves prosperity comes to town and triggers a building boom. In modern San Francisco, rows of skyscrapers have begun lining the downtown streets and recasting the skyline, monuments to the triumph of the tech sector. Leading this wave, the Millennium Tower. 58 stories of opulence, it opened in 2009 to great acclaim, then the tallest residential building west of the mississippi. Though priced in the millions, the inventory of posh apartments moved quickly. Yet for all its curb appeal, the building has quite literally one fundamental problem its sinking into mud and tilting toward its neighbors. Engineering doesnt often make for rollicking mystery, but San Francisco is captivated by the tale of the Leaning Tower and the lawsuits its spawned. As we first reported this past fall, its a story positioned albeit at an angle somewhere between civic scandal and civic curiosity, an illustration of what can happen when zeal for development overtakes common sense. foghorn when the fog rolls in over San Francisco, the skyscrapers live up to the name. The transamerica pyramid, long the gem of this skyline, now dwarfed, quaint as a cable car. The new Salesforce Tower stands as the tallest building in town. Nearby, facebook just took out the citys largest lease on this building. And across the way, the Millennium Tower at 301 Mission Street, 645 feet of reinforced concrete wrapped in glass. Inside the 550 million construction, as advertised lavish condominiums flush with amenities, attracting tech barons and venture capitalists. San francisco royalty, former 49ers quarterback joe montana, bought here. Pat dodson its a wonderful location. Wertheim so did jerry and pat dodson. Eight years ago, they paid 2. 1 million for a twobedroom and planned to live out their retirement enjoying the sweeping view from the 42nd floor. Pat dodson everything i had read indicated that it was the best building in San Francisco. It had won numerous awards. It had particularly won awards for construction, which was very important if youre thinking of moving into a high rise. Wertheim initially no buyers remorse . Pat dodson absolutely not. Jerry dodson no, not at all. I mean, in fact, buyer euphoria. Wertheim one feature the dodsons hadnt counted on. These devices are what . Jerry dodson theyre stress gauges. Wertheim dozens of stress gauges dot the walls of the Millennium Towers basement. They measure in millimeters the slow growth of cracks along the columns that rise up from the buildings foundation. Jerry dodson theres enough of them, a spider web of cracks, that you have to be concerned about whats going on underneath. Wertheim these cracks are one of the only visual clues that theres anything profoundly wrong here. These are the rounds you do now . Jerry dodson yeah, ive been told by structural and geotechnical engineers that i should be watching. Wertheim both an engineer and a lawyer, dodson makes daily rounds of the basement looking for signs of deterioration. Its a routine hes kept since the Homeowners Association called a meeting of residents in may of 2016. Pat dodson they just said we should be there and made us sign in, which alerted us at that time that there was something serious. Wertheim so, what was the nature of that meeting . Pat dodson it was the first time we were told that the building was sinking and was tilting. Wertheim engineers have tracked sinking here since the day the foundation was poured in 2006. Nothing unusual about that. Heres what is unusual their data shows the Millennium Tower sinking 17 inches so far and tilting 14 inches to the northwest. Aaron peskin let me ask you this what do you think is going on . Why is this happening . What can be done about it . Wertheim once news got out, local politicians seized on the story. Engineer i dont know. Wertheim and the very engineers celebrated for the buildings design suddenly were being compelled to explain why the building was moving. Woman if youd like to speak, please do approach the mic. Wertheim when the millennium hearings opened to public comment, it brought some livelier moments. Man i think whats needed here in the city by the bay, where everybody thinks everythings okay, but they might want to hear what ive got to say. Wertheim this, after all, being San Francisco a city once described as 49 square miles surrounded by reality. Aaron peskin has a certain vitality himself. A longtime city supervisor, he starts most days with a swim in the bay, then meets constituents at a north beach coffee shop where the Millennium Tower is a popular topic. Peskin is leading hearings into what is causing the trouble. You subpoenaed some of the engineers involved with Millennium Tower. Why . Peskin we dont generally like to subpoena people. That power has not been used by the San Francisco board of supervisors for some quarter of a century. Wertheim 25 years, youve never issued a subpoena before . Peskin thats correct. Wertheim when you got them in here, what did you learn . Peskin their answers were less than satisfactory. Nobody has owned up to why this building is not performing. Wertheim some homeowners arent waiting around to find out. Andrew faulk and frank jernigan, who worked at google when it was still a startup, got all the answers they needed when they rolled a marble across their floor. Jernigan we didnt do it but once, and this is what we got. We were shocked when that thing stopped, turned around and started rolling back. Faulk back to where the building is tilting. Wertheim the northwest side. Jernigan i thought, we dont know if this buildings going to stand up in an earthquake. And so, i became severely frightened of that. Faulk and we got out. We left. We left really most all of our belongings. We just left. Wertheim the couple sold their apartment last year, and moved to a twostory home in the Pacific Heights neighborhood. Jernigan we sold it for approximately half of what it was valued at before this news came to light. Wertheim you lost seven figures. Jernigan yes. Wertheim . On the sale of this apartment . Jernigan yes. Faulk thats right. Jernigan i would say we lost 3 million to 4 million. Wertheim speaking of astronomical figures. bell half a world away, in a suburb of amsterdam, San Franciscos sinking tower came across the radar of petar marinkovic, an engineer who works with the European Space agency to track earthquakes. Using signals from a satellite 500 miles above the earth, marinkovic measures ground movements around fault lines. In 2016, he happened to be studying the bay area when something caught his eye. This is obviously downtown San Francisco. What do the green dots represent . Marinkovic green dots represent stable, no displacement or no significant displacement. Wertheim stable structures . Marinkovic stable structures, yeah. Wertheim and the red dots . Marinkvoc few red dots means somethings going down. Somethings settling. Somethings subsiding. Somethings sinking. Wertheim did you know what it was . Marinkovic no. Wertheim had you heard of Millennium Tower before this . Marinkovic no. Wertheim ever been to San Francisco . Marinkovic no. Wertheim what can you tell us about the rate of sinking . Marinkovic its in the ballpark of. Between 1. 5 to two inches a year. Wertheim 1. 5 to two inches a year . Marinkovic yeah, yeah. Wertheim and theres nothing to suggest the sinking and tilting are slowing down, much less stopping. But is it dangerous . As recently as this past summer, the city of San Francisco and its engineers asserted the building is safe even in the event of an earthquake. Even so and this is a central theme to this saga there are as many opinions about the trouble at the Millennium Tower as there are engineers in the bay area. Jerry cauthen theres a lot of things about this building that are unprecedented. Wertheim Jerry Cauthen, one of those local engineers, did not work on the tower but has worked on nearby projects. Some sinking for buildings is acceptable, right . Cauthen some is. They actually anticipated that over the life of the building, it would sink about four to five inches. Thats like a hundredyear life. Wertheim this is double and triple that. Cauthen yeah. I dont think they. They obviously didnt anticipate anything like this, close to it. Wertheim by they, cauthen means millennium partners, brandname developers with high end skyscrapers all over the country. Cauthen says their big mistake was building Millennium Tower out of concrete instead of steel. Cauthen concrete is often cheaper. And its just as good, but it is a lot heavier. And so, you got to design your foundation and your subsurface to support that higher weight. Wertheim what lies beneath the surface at 301 Mission Street is critical to the story. It fell to millenniums geotechnical engineers to analyze the ground below and design an appropriate foundation. They went with a foundation driven 80feet deep into a layer of dense sand, and the city approved the plan. Larry karp is a local geotechnical engineer. He did not work on the tower either but specializes in bay area soil conditions. What is under the ground here . Karp what is under the ground here at the surface is rubble from the 1906 earthquake, brick and sand and debris. Everything you could imagine is down here. Wertheim you have to go 200 feet below the Millennium Tower, through layers of history in the ground below landfill from the time of the gold rush, sand, mud and clay to reach solid rock or bedrock. Karp says the fact that the Towers Foundation isnt anchored in bedrock, well, thats a problem. Karp for a big, heavy building, a concrete building, those foundations have to go deeper. For a building like this, they have to go to bedrock. Wertheim otherwise, he says, the structure will sink into less sturdy layers of sand and mud. And because it doesnt sink or settle uniformly, you get tilting. Karp look at the whole line. Wertheim karp told us he can see the tilt from the middle of Mission Street a few blocks away. We couldnt see it, so we asked Jerry Cauthen if he could. Cauthen no, i dont. Its very hard to see. Its not enough of a tilt to see. This is not like the Leaning Tower of pisa. Wertheim and there it is the inevitable comparison to that greatest engineering gaffe of them all not the landmark any presentday developer wants to be associated with. Millennium partners declined our request for an oncamera interview but pointed out their tower was built to code. They blame their neighbors, specifically construction of the transbay terminal San Franciscos answer to Grand Central station right next door. Transbay declined an oncamera interview, too, but told us millennium had already sunk ten inches before work began on their project. And right on cue, here come the lawyers. Lawyers for millennium partners, for the transbay terminal next door, for the towers Structural Engineers and geotechnical engineers, for the architect and the builder, for the Homeowners Association, and for the city. And yes, even for joe montana. There are 20 parties to various Millennium Tower lawsuits and counting. Dodson it takes a half hour just to take attendance of the lawyers in the courtroom. I mean, literally. Wertheim thats a lot of billable hours. Dodson a lot of billable hours. Wertheim courtroom circus aside, we asked aaron peskin, the city supervisor, simply whats going on here . Peskin everybody is afraid to tell the truth, because if we get to the bottom of this, they are worried that it is going to, in some ways, slow down the building boom that is happening in San Francisco. Wertheim time is money in construction, and we dont want to stop this frenzy. Peskin absolutely. Absolutely. Wertheim this drama has hardly had a chilling effect. Everywhere you look in downtown San Francisco, theyre building another skyscraper. And the latest musthave amenity for all these new constructions bedrock. In what might be the first act of buildingonbuilding bullying, tech giant salesforce stuck it to millennium via twitter. Peskin bedrock, baby. Wertheim you think that was in reference to whats going on across the street . Peskin i dont think it was in reference, i know it was in reference because i know the people who built that building. Wertheim the city still doesnt require all skyscrapers to go to bedrock, but it has made some changes to prevent another tower from leaning. More review of foundations for new tall buildings, for one. As for the Millennium Tower, on this almost everyone agrees it needs to be fixed. What do we do with a tilting, sinking building . Cauthen ive heard freeze the ground in perpetuity. Freeze the ground. Wertheim perpetually freeze the ground under this building . Cauthen perpetually freeze the ground. Theyve talked about removing 20 stories from the top of it to reduce its weight. Wertheim what. What do you think of that, lopping off. Cauthen god, i hope they dont have to. Wertheim . Lopping off the top 20 stories . Cauthen shoot, that sounds like a horrible mess. I think more likely the surest way is to get it on piles to rock. Wertheim bedrock. There may be no avoiding it. The parties are in mediation, debating just how to drill down to bedrock under an existing skyscraper with a thousand People Living upstairs. And then, theres the indelicate question who pays for all this . Peskin i am hopeful that the city and millennium and the Homeowners Association will implement a fix in the near term and fight about the money later. But times ticking. Cbs money watch sponsored by lincoln financial, helping you protect those you love most. Good evening. Heads of state and Corporate Executives gather in davos, switzerland, for the World Economic forum this week. Netflix, intel, and starbucks report earnings this week. And fords first 2019 mustang bullet was auctioned off for 300,000, all proceeds going the charity. Im elaine quijano, cbs news. 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Kroft the name David Cornwell is probably unfamiliar to most of you, but hes an interesting person to talk to in these days of alleged political conspiracies, espionage, and a rekindling of the cold war. He is an expert on secrets, a former spy himself, and the author of two dozen books, virtually all of them best sellers, written under the pen name of John Le Carre. Among them are the spy who came in from the cold, the little drummer girl, tinker tailor soldier spy, the constant gardner, and the night manager, all of which have been made into films. He is not just a popular writer of thrillers, he is a novelist of some standing, often compared to graham greene, joseph conrad, and somerset maugham. Cornwell has been living this double life for more than 50 years now, and rarely gives television interviews, but last september, upon the publication of his 24th novel, a legacy of spies, we were invited to spend a few days with this literary lion in winter. To find his natural habitat, you must journey six hours from london, through farmland and down onelane country roads lined with hedgerow and blackthorn, to a corner of england so remote its known as lands end. Here, nestled on a cliff in cornwall, you will find John Le Carres safehouse. So this is where you escape to . John le carre yeah. It was as far from london as i could get reasonably. I guess the other thing to say about this place, which is very important to me, is that the cornish dont give a damn for celebrity. laughs if they even know what i do, they havent read it. Or if they have read it, they make a point of not being impressed by it. And that that is enormously soothing. Not a head turns in the street when i walk by. laughs kroft its here, in the home he fashioned out of three derelict cottages more than 40 years ago, that he weaves together the threads of memory, experience, and research into his tales of intrigue. The solitude is his stimulation. You said many times that you dont like giving interviews. Le carre yeah, i think thats true. And then i defect from that position. laughs kroft its very clear that almost every interview youve given over the last ten years, youve told them that it le carre it was the last one. Kroft this was going the last one. Le carre it always is. Kroft well, i take the fact that youre still giving interviews, that youre aging better than you thought you would. Le carre i think thats perfectly true. Each book feels like my last book. And then i think, like a dedicated alcoholic, that one more wont do me any harm. Kroft David Cornwells not a functioning alcoholic, but hes created a stable full of imperfect characters over the years as John Le Carre, a name he does not answer to. Its an abstraction that exists in his writing studio, and on the cover of his books, like a spys name on a phony passport. John le carre is sort of a cover. Le carre its a separate identity, in a way. And you can look after it. And looking after le carre and keeping myself young, keeping the child in me alive keeping a critical nature of life whizzing in my head, thats being le carre. Kroft is there any space between david and john . Le carre yes, i think a lot really. David tries to be a good dad and a regular guy with difficulty, many flaws. And and john takes off into the ether. Hes the man of imagination. And i can take john for a walk, let him loose on the cliffs. laughs and he has a good time and he populates the empty cliffs with the people of his imagination. And then i come back and help with the washing up. Kroft le carre was created by cornwell in 1961, out of necessity, not choice. It happened during his first career as a spy for British Intelligence, both at home and abroad. To satisfy a creative urge, he began writing fiction on his commute to work and during lunchtime. Why did you need a pen name . Le carre ah, well, a hard, practical reason. I was still in secret harness, as you might say. I wrote my first three books from inside the intelligence world. The books had to be approved by my masters, and were. But a condition was, i had to choose a pen name. So i went to my publisher. Kroft his publisher preferred short and snappy. Cornwell wanted something interesting, mysterious and french. Le carre ive told many lies about how it came about, because i truly dont clearly remember. But i think i wanted, architecturally, a name in three, in three parts. And i thought the acute accent at the end, these were eye catching things. So instead of trying to look like everybody else, i tried to look a bit different, as a name. And then somebody who is carre, as a gentleman, is not quite a gentleman. laughs that suits me fine. laughs kroft that attitude doesnt just suit cornwell, it actually defines him. He has the wealth, the education, and the bearing of a polished patrician, but hell never be part of the english upper class which he abhors. Plus, he has the pedigree of a rogue. Le carre i mean, you must realize that im an upstart. I do come originally from a working class family. I went kind of from working class to middle class to to criminal class, which was finally my fathers condition. And i had to invent myself as a gentleman, a pseudogentleman. So its a Good American story of selfinvention. Kroft he was five years old years when his mother olive deserted the family, leaving him and his older brother, tony, under the chaotic charge of their father ronnie, a colorful, charismatic con man and crook. Le carre if there remains one great conundrum in my life, it is my father who seems to me to to inspire, also, some of the worst or best characters in me. He had a wonderful brain. Everybody who worked for him was in awe of his intellect. But if there was a bent way of doing something, he took it. Kroft a rich vein of material for you to mine. Le carre wonderful. Wonderful, rich vein of material. And very painful. Kroft ronnie ran with a fast crowd; celebrities, sportsmen, and mobsters. There were racehorses at ascot and trips to san moritz. They lived either as millionaires or paupers. One week, a chauffeured bentley; the next, on the run from bill collectors, or worse. Le carre hed done quite a lot of jail. And he spent some years of his life on the run in late middle age. So it was a mess, just a bloody mess. But that surviving it it was also a privilege to be part of it, in some strange way. It taught you a lot about life, lowered your expectations, raised them in other ways. Kroft what did you learn . Le carre i learned, i think, to understand the wideness, the width, of the spectrum of human behavior. And i guess i learned the the perils of charm, which he exercised ruthlessly with huge success. And i learned about the insecurity of the world. That everything is transient, even our money, our future, our lives, our children, everything. He was always an excellent student, and by the time he graduated from oxford with a degree in modern languages, hed already learned from his father some of the prerequisites of a career in espionage lying, manipulation, and deception. When he was approached by a recruiter for the British Secret service, it seemed like a seamless transition. When it comes to recruiting people for the secret world, what the recruiters are looking for is pretty much what i had. I was unanchored, looking for an institution to look after me. I had a bit of larceny. I understood larceny. I understood the natural criminality in people because it was it was all around me. And i have no doubt there was a chunk of it inside me too. Once i found that identity, it took root in me. It exactly it gelled with the world that id known in the past. Kroft he began in london, running agents, keeping tabs on subversives and spies, and learning the trade craft. He moved to the foreign branch, mi6, at the height of the cold war, posing as a young diplomat at the British Embassy in west germany, just as the berlin wall was going up. What were you doing when you were working for mi6 . Le carre in germany, i never talk about that. Kroft you cant. Le carre no. I would never be comfortable talking about it. And and i think you find that with most people whove been in that world. It is simply anathema. Kroft whatever David Cornwells duties were, John Le Carre found time to write a novel about a washedup spy named alec leamas, who is sent on a Dangerous Mission across the wall and betrayed by his bosses. Le carre my memory is that i wrote it very fast, the story. But i had no idea where i was going at first. And it just flowed. And i think you get a break like that once in your writing life. I, i really believe nothing else came to me so naturally, so fast. Kroft you had to show it to. Le carre i then showed it to my department. And there was a bit of a loud silence. And then, actually, as was a kind of sporting decency almost, my my service said, okay, go ahead and publish it. But i think they had no idea, any more than i did, that it would become a sensation. Kroft the spy who came in from the cold was the publishing event of 1963. The book spent 34 weeks as number one on the bestseller list, and was made into an acclaimed Motion Picture starring Richard Burton and claire bloom. Both the novel and the film served as grey, gritty antidotes to the fantastical world of james bond, and were accepted by critics and the public as an authentic portrayal of the scruffy business of espionage. Alec leamus what the hell do you think spies are . Moral philosophers measuring everything they do against the word of god or karl marx . Theyre not. Theyre just a bunch of seedy, squalid bastards like me. Little men, drunkards, queers, henpecked husbands, Civil Servants playing cowboys and indians to brighten their rotten little lives. Do you think they sit like monks in a cell balancing right against wrong . Kroft the book would make John Le Carre a famous and much indemand author, but for months, only British Intelligence knew who and where he was, and it did not want to blow cornwells cover in germany. People didnt know it was you. Le carre no, they didnt, until the sunday times blew the whistle. And then the whole investigation of my person, as you might say, came up. Was i a spook . Was i not a spook . And i, out of loyalty to my service and out of some sense of privacy, went on insisting that id had no intelligence experience, until it became absurd. laughs and it became absurd largely kroft i did. Le carre largely with my colleagues. laughs and my superior officers were either boasting or complaining to anybody who would listen that that id written the book. Kroft spooks are generally wary of unscripted publicity, so he and the agency eventually agreed to part ways, allowing him, and le carre, to concentrate full time on fiction, not unlike his father, ronnie. You have mused, on at least one occasion, about whether theres much of a difference between what you do for a living and what he did. Le carre well, i think thats kind of me. laughs kroft what were you talking about specifically . Le carre well, i was saying that i live off my wits, as he did. I look around, i collect bits of people. I assemble them. I pitch a story. I sell it. He, as a con man, does much the same. I do it on the page, and he does it with human material. But what that doesnt take account of is what happens to the human material. laughs kroft youve said and i dont know what the context was, but ive seen this quoted a number of times. You said, im a liar, born to lie, bred to it, trained to it by an industry that lies for a living. Le carre yeah. All of thats true. Actually, its a dreadful confession. But these days, i tell the truth. Kroft when we come back, well visit two of le carres favorite inventions the london circus, and George Smiley who both reappear after an absence of nearly 30 years in his latest book, a legacy of spies. Plus, a walk through his writing studio, and his thoughts about todays world. This cbs sports update is brought the you by the lincoln meter company. Im james brown. In the a. F. C. Championship game, tom brady threw for 29d 0 yards and connected with Danny Amendola on to touchdown strikes. New england hung on to defeat jacksonville 2420 to claim their second straight a. F. C. Title. The defending super bowl champion patriots will now face the winner of the vikingseagles n. F. C. Championship matchup in super bowl 52 two weeks from today. For sports news, go to cbssports. Com. And 640 muscles in the human body, no two of us are alike. Life made more effortless through adaptability. The perfect position seat in the lincoln continental. in the lincoln continental. Jardiance is the only type 2 diabetes pill proven to both significantly reduce the chance of dying from a cardiovascular event in adults who have type 2 diabetes and heart disease. And lower your a1c. Wow. Jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration. This may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, or lightheaded, or weak upon standing. Ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may be fatal. Symptoms include nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, and trouble breathing. Stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of ketoacidosis or an allergic reaction. Symptoms of an allergic reaction include rash, swelling, and difficulty breathing or swallowing. Do not take jardiance if you are on dialysis or have severe kidney problems. Other side effects are sudden kidney problems, genital yeast infections, increased bad cholesterol, and urinary tract infections, which may be serious. Taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. What do you think . I think its time to think about jardiance. Ask your doctor about jardiance. And get to the heart of what matters. Kroft for the most part, the novels of David Cornwell, written under the name John Le Carre, are about spies and espionage. Thats the subject matter, anyway, and the setting. But theyre also about human nature and behavior about honor, ambition, careerism, and conflicting loyalties that could apply to any profession. Its a way of writing large about the small world of secret Intelligence Services that cornwell was a part of and not a bad way, he says, to take measure of a nations political health. Le carre you feel that youve got a hand somehow on the subconscious of the nation. You feel you know what the greatest anxieties are and the greatest ambitions are. Kroft in le carres world, the headquarters of the British Intelligence services existed some years ago in an imaginary building off the Theatre District in central london. London station couldnt be in better hands kroft as portrayed in his books and the movies about them, this den of spies was a drab bureaucracy populated by eccentric characters working in a longneglected victorian pile of bricks called the circus. About time someone oiled this thing, isnt it . We keep asking kroft it was not exactly an accurate description of the real thing, cornwell says, but it was credible. Le carre it was an abstraction from reality. Kroft was it known as the circus to the people who were. . Le carre no, no, no. It wasnt. Kroft that comes from your imagination . Le carre i lifted the building, body and soul, as you might say, replanted it in cambridge circus different part of london, and it was known by the shorthand as the circus. And what better name for a community of performing laughs performing spies, than the circus . Kroft there were scalp hunters, lamplighters, honey traps, and moles. All of this came from your imagination . Le carre yes. I mean, something always sparks the imagination, and mine was sparked and took off, and i thought, this is this is a kind of halfdream world which i can inform from experience. And it fits. Kroft people who work there recognize it . Le carre it isnt as if they recognize this operation or that operation. What they recognize is the smell, and the authenticity of, i hope, of the life that we led. Le carre secret Service Headquarters was down on the righthand side. Kroft in london, cornwell took us on a cab ride to see the actual building where he worked, and that used to house mi6 headquarters. Le carre and it was dusty and smelly and it smelled of, sort of, nescafe and fags. People smoked. Everybody seemed to smoke. Lot of alcohol. A lot of alcohol. Kroft its now an office building, not far from buckingham palace. Kroft there much security le carre there was no security at all. I mean, none. None that was visible. You walked in and out once you were a familiar face. And it was, good morning, mr. Cornwell. Good morning, this. Hallo, bill. And when you came back from abroad, it was always, welcome back, sir. Kroft but nobody searched the bags going in and out . Le carre no. I, i i never knew of anyone being stopped and searched. Kroft there would be a price paid for the complacency, when mi6s most notorious double agent, the cambridgeeducated spy kim philby, waltzed out the door with some of britains most valuable secrets and handed them over to the soviet union. The incident was an inspiration for cornwells most memorable success, tinker tailor soldier spy. The book and this b. B. C. Adaptation are about the search for a russian mole at the highest level of the circus. We have a rotten apple, and the maggots are eating at the circus. Kroft . Conducted by le carres portly spymaster and favorite character, George Smiley. Le carre its a very close bond. George smiley is my secret sharer, my companion. And i think that, because im given to exaggerated emotions at times, smiley moderates me as a writer. Kroft the character, played by Alec Guinness in this bbc version, is about as close as le carre gets to a hero. At best, middleaged, a hapless cuckold, he is measured, sensible, clever, and devoted to his job. What do you like best about smiley . Le carre i think how he toughs it out. Kroft survivor. Le carre more than that. He does a good job. Tidy up le carre and much of it is distasteful to him. But he has a sense of duty. And he has a sense of moral obligation and a sense of balance. George, you won le carre hes made a lot of compromises with life. Did i . Yes, yes, i suppose i did. Le carre and its actually his greatest operational weapon, is his humanity. Kroft it been nearly 30 years since smiley and his old circus performers have appeared in a le carre novel, but some of them are back for the new one a legacy of spies, and unceremoniously called to account at the gleaming new mi6 headquarters, for the sins, failures, and betrayals committed decades earlier in the spy who came in from the cold. gunfire kroft this struck me as something youve been wanting to do for a while. Le carre well, it is. In the first place, the characters never left me. In some curious way, particularly smiley, they became even if i wasnt writing about them they became quite conscious companions, at times, in my imagination. And what i wanted to do at this stage, this point of closure in the smiley saga now 50, 60 years on, was have the present interrogate the past about what we did then in the cold war, in the name of freedom. And was it worth it. And it was with this very mood very much that i concluded the book and the search for George Smiley, which for me was some kind of search for truth. Kroft what he loves best about writing is the privacy of it. Every day sometime, after 7 00 a. M. , he climbs the steps to his studio and begins putting pen to paper. Le carre and this is my workroom. If there are family crises and things like that, i edit them out until midday. This is from legacy. And this is peter guillam, the central figure, who is narrating. I have two visions simultaneously. The first, of george, thats George Smiley; and alec, thats alec leamas; huddled head to head in the chilly conservatory. In bywater street. Rare use of an adjective by me. Kroft most of the material comes from notebooks hes filled on long walks or Epic Research trips hes taken to capture the feel and smell of faraway place he puts his characters. Le carre this is all the very raw material. Kroft these notes were jotted down in kenya while he was writing the constant gardner. Le carre these are things i saw. Batons. A panga from somewhere. The man lies in the recovery pose, bathed in blood from the head down, dead or going there. In nairobi, murder is one of the few industries that that live up to expectation. Kroft there are no computers involved in this process. He edits with scissors and a stapler. Le carre and thats the extract. Kroft . And hands the good bits off to his personal typist and copy editor, jane cornwell, his wife of 45 years. She is also chief operating officer of his life and various enterprises. Le carre like all writers, ive lived a messy, untidy life, inevitably so, and shes been wonderfully supportive. And its always, go to jane if you need to get to david, because shes got her feet on the ground. God knows where hes got his feet. Kroft cornwell has been writing as John Le Carre for so long, no one could tell us how many millions of books hes sold over the last five and a half decades. Theyve been printed in 43 different languages. How do you think of yourself as a writer . Le carre wow. Storyteller. So were sitting in front of a fire. I want to keep you in your chair. I want to interest you. I want you to want to turn the page. But i dont really think too much about the posterity, and i certainly dont join the literary argument about where i stand. Am i a quality novelist . Am i a popular novelist . Am i a thriller writer . To me, if id gone to sea, id have written about the sea. If id gone into stockbroking, id have written about the stockbroking world. Kroft youve turned down literary honors. Youve turned down a knighthood. Le carre yes. Kroft why . Le carre in my own country, im so suspicious of the literary world that i dont want its accolades. And least of all do i want to be called a commander of the British Empire or any other thing of the British Empire. I find it emetic. Kroft and why do you feel that way . Le carre i dont want to posture as somebody whos been honored by the state and must therefore somehow conform with the state. And i dont want to wear the armor. Kroft your writing partner, George Smiley, had this to say on the subject the privately educated englishman is the greatest dissembler on earth. No one will charm you so glibly, disguise his feelings from you better, cover his tracks more skillfully, or find it harder to confess that hes been a damned fool. No one acts braver when hes frightened stiff, or happier when hes miserable. And nobody can flatter you better when he hates you than an extrovert englishman or woman. Le carre yeah. I think thats very good. laughter kroft you like that graph. Le carre i like that, yes i do. Kroft do you consider yourself an englishman . Le carre what kind of englishman at the moment . Yes, of course, im born and bred english. Im english to the core. My england would be the one that recognizes its place in the european union. That jingoistic england that is trying to march us out of the e. U. , that is an england i dont want to know. Kroft like most europeans, cornwell has no use for President Donald Trump and his nationalistic agenda which he calls alarming and contagious, and he worries about the ambitions of russian president vladimir putin. Le carre i think todays spooks working on the russian front british spooks would tell you that its just as bad as it was in the cold war. Putin sees everything in terms of conspiracy, and his grip on the russian populace is so strong that he has resorted to all the old systems that he was familiar with. So, were right back to where we were in the cold war, with the added mission that putin has given to himself to erode decent democracy wherever he sees it. Kroft so much has changed the world of espionage, since you first began. I mean, you have the introduction now of cyber war. You have computer hacking. You have all of this stuff. You le carre yeah. Kroft you wonder, is it possible that to keep any secrets at all . And do we need spies . Any human spies . Le carre i think probably, in many ways, more than ever. In some ways, the techniques of intelligence and the techniques of maintaining secrets have gone backwards. If you and i are going to enter into a conspiracy now, we dont do it through the ether. We dont do it by computer. We exchange notes. We either hand each other notes we keep paper again. Paper is back in. Secondly, you very, very often need an agent on the spot who is going to deliver the piece of paper, the code number, the simple clue to it all. Kroft mostly right now, David Cornwell and john le caree are recovering from, celebrating and lamenting publication of this last novel, strange as that may seem. You said the most depressing time in your life is when youve finished a book . Le carre yes. Yes. Kroft which is what youre going through right now . Le carre which is exactly what im going through right now. Thank you for lightening my load. laughs yeah, its a feeling of youve depleted everything youve youve been working on. Its done. Its out there. And then out of the ashes of the last book, so to speak, comes the phoenix of the new one, and then lifes okay again. But the the depression that overtakes me when ive turned in a book, i must confess is real and deep. Kroft do you have an idea for the next book . Le carre absolutely. I cant wait to get to it. La carre reads la carre. 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Stashin the cash from your wallet and im masked, if you ask me, homie, i was not involved engine revving and if you retaliate boy, i swear that im coming back for all of yall boy, ill run up in your trap, trap, trap, trap. Whats happenin, man . Whats good . Boy, ill run up in your trap, trap, trap, trap boy, ill run up in your trap