And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Pleased to welcome lindsay clemmens to the program. Her book heralded as the debut novel of the year. It explores race, family, identity and grief. It is an honor to have lindsay on this program. How are you . Thank you. It is an honor to be here. How are you handling the mad love you are getting for this . It is better than hot hate. Take it from me. It beats mad hate. Anxious to talk about, i did not know that your cousin was fight dog. One of the greatest groups ever. That is your cousin . Yes. Unfortunately, he passed away a little while ago. He was always a big important part of my family that he was from our family. My great grandmother, her house is basically where he grew up. It was always really this pretty magical place that obviously he was very inspired by and my mother is also a wonderful poet. I guess we have a little literary tradition. We have a rapper and a poet and now an author. Did that impact in any way your artistic choices . Your direction . Your path . Well, i wrote an essay about this shortly after my cousin died. And i had a really important summer where i spent time with my aunt in new york city. That was when i was first starting to kind of get my start as an adult and in the publishing world. Just being around her and malik and seeing how they were able to make their lives work while being artists i think sort of gave me more permission or made me less scared of it in a pretty subtle way i think. You might think because that exists in my family it is a topic of conversation. It wasnt really. It was something i think was good for me to be around. Did you know going into this where the lines were or did you discover that as you were writing . That is to say the parts a bit more semi auto bigraphic and the parts that are more experimental fiction. Did you know . No. The reason for that is, you know, a creative project is always really different when you are looking from the perspective of a creator. And it didnt all happen at once. It wasnt intentional really. The way i started writing the book was i was journaling as i often do. At the time my mother was herself dying of cancer. And i just started writing these small notes while it was going on, the same time i was writing another novel. Eventually i abandoned the other novel when i realized i couldnt get away from what was going on in my family. That was when i decided really after she passed away that this is the story i needed to write. So i came back to the journal entries and started fictionalizing the story around them. It wasnt a question of me writing my story and then trying to make it sound like fiction. It was much more like i was just writing a story and i wanted it to be a big one. When you say you couldnt get away from what was happening in your own life do you mean you couldnt get away emotionally, artistically or both . Both. Importantly they kind of work in concert. Especially when youre a novelist your business is making art out of your emotions to a greater or lesser extent depending on what type of writing you are producing. But for me i think i was trying to write a book in a more traditional style. I think the fact that this was so preoccupying me both emotionally and artistically eventually i felt i was always needing to write about it. That is kind of how you know when you are an artist that you have something when you cant stop thinking about it and writing about it. Tell me about this young lady. She is a woman very similar to myself. But the way i like to describe her is she is sort of me but more impulsive. Maybe if i was a little less responsible. We have a very similar world view in that we are the type of people who have never really fit comfortably wherever we have sort of found ourselves. I think that makes her as the narrator very used to sort of sitting back and assessing a situation from the outside. When you are not used to being a participant you are used to just kind of sitting back and seeing how things play out. That is definitely who she is. I think also because you know she had this experience of being in between cultures and countries. She her point of view is maybe a little bit unusual for people. I think the book if you think about it as her journal in a way, it is kind of a repository of ideas about what is going on in her life and who she is as a person. She has a lot of control over the story and the process of reading the book is really about getting inside her mind. Its tough talking about novels because you dont want to give the story away. Tell me to the extent you can and to the extent that you want to share with the audience, the back story for why she doesnt feel like she fits or belongs anywhere in the world. So her story is she is raised in a suburb in pennsylvania. Her mother immigrated from south africa while her father is american. Her mother also is part of a race in south africa called colored. We have white people. We have black people and then we also have colored people who are mixed race people, also sometimes includes indians. Basically this was a way for the apartheid government to exert control over everybody so you cant have people out there with no category. And basically what has happened since independence is that even though official restraints have lessened people still tend to live in the same places and there are still some vestiges basically of apartheid and that is one of them. So tondy is mixed race and an identity that doesnt exist in america. She is also light skinned. She is visibly multi racial. Tell me more about what she is struggling with internally. That is trying to find your place in the world. Tell me about internal struggles. So this creates a little bit of background. The way that the book is formatted is that if you can imagine the narrator in the present tense and things happening in her life in the present tense will jog memories of what happened in the past. In the present tense of the book we find out she has recently fallen in love. She is contemplating starting her own family. In the past her mother passed away from cancer. So all these events in her life where she is basically being forced into this new adulthood makes her think of her own mother, naturally. And she sort of still is processing in a way. I think that by the time that the book happened in the present tense she has mostly dealt with the grief from her mother. What she is dealing with now is how to sort of move forward and construct her life without the presence of her mother in it. So i think that is really the central question. I have this line in the book that says Something Like the central question of my life after my mothers death was how to live without her when she was so important to who i was as a person. What is it to your mind that you have done that is a bit different than other novels that has people all in a good way freaked out about your process . So i wrote this essay about a year ago about sort of the invisibility of black experimental fiction and poetry. And the poetry was to say that black berries have been ready. We are not recognized for doing such. I pose the question. Why is that . I dont have an answer. One of the things that i say in the article which i had to do a lot of research on was to define this thing called experimental. It turns out there is actually no definition. It is relative because if you think back to, say at the time that was very innovative. But now we can consider it part of mainstream poetry writing. It is whatever is cutting edge at the time that is relative to its time and context. So again i just kind of describe my process for how i wrote the book. I was just trying to write the book. I didnt have many ideas about how it should be done. So i think it sort of ended up being a very cutting edge thing. For me it was really a very organic process. I wasnt trying to wow anyone or deliberately trying to do anything different. This is just how i write and express myself. And i just see myself as having carried out that m. It is being called the debut novel of the year. It is called what we lose. It is a name we are being told by everybody that we should remember. We met many years ago i was told. How old were you . I was in high school. I was at your youth to leaders program. It was in philadelphia. It was probably around 2002 or 2003. I went to the Convention Center in philly. It was a really fun day. The highlight was i got to meet nick cannon who i had a huge crush on. Thank you. My pleasure. That is what im here for. And now you debuting your novel to the rest of the world. Its a funny story because you never know. Through my foundation i have had youth to Leadership Development program for years. You never know where these youngsters will end up. I have one in the state house and one running insurance. I had no idea when i met lindsay as a young kid in philadelphia that she would be the author of this. One never knows. Congratulations. Up next actor joshua henry. Stay with us. Twotime tony nominee to this program. He currently stars in the National Tour of hamilton, a role he originated in the chicago engagement. Good to have you on this program. Good to be here. Are we having fun yet . We are having a blast here. Its nice. Got here about three weeks ago. Audiences have been electric. I guess they have gone the longest without having it. The last to get everything on the west coast. How cool is it not just playing a villain but historical villain . It is great. When i just got the role the main thing we know about burr is he shot hamilton. The challenge was to not just think about him like that. How did he get there . I dont think anyone goes from you are not just born thinking you are going to do Something Like he did. Finding out what brought him to that point. He was really successful, graduated from college in two years and was serving his country for a while. He was a genius. He just ran into this guy who was walking through the world a lot differently than he did. He didnt think that was the way to do it. So a couple disagreements later and bam. I think the biggest thing in this role is his last line for me where it says the world was wide enough for hamilton and me, a realization he has and thinks all this could have been avoided if i knew that there was room for both of us to thrive. I think for me doing this role that is the biggest joy being able to say a line like that and a big spot light like this because i think it is important for us right now. Tell me how you connected to the humanity of aaron burr. What did you find out . I think he is someone that experienced success pretty early which can be a damaging thing at times. And i was fortunate to come out of college and even as an actor experience some success early. Thats a hard thing because when failure comes how do you deal with that or when you come up against opposition what haphapp . It will come. I think a lot of folks think he jumps from show to show. There have been times that were pretty hard. I was in high school for my first show. Right after that i tried to leave that show to do another show and funding dropped out. There have been stretches and months where you are just not working. What happens when you come up against opposition and a thought process where that is not the way you have seen the world. That can start to play with you a little bit and it tests your foundation a little bit. How have you navigated those down turns . I think the biggest thing is having a group of people around you that have known you for a long time having what you call an ateam. No matter your successes or failures are just going to be there to support you. I have been really fortunate and need to work less to come from a very spiritual family. They have instilled within me a belief in god and belief that says no matter the circumstance that you have a foundation and that you have that things will get better. So no matter if things are really low or high there is a middle ground, an equilibrium that says you are where you are supposed to be on your journey. I think those things have really helped me navigate a lot of rejection. Thats part of the gigs is accepting rejection. Thats why im not an actor. I cant handle rejection that well. Thats my middle name. We have to accept it with a smile and turn around and be vulnerable when you get a role and learn how to connect emotion. Thats part of how i navigated it. You mentioned god a moment ago. When you mentioned that my mend went immediately to the Book Hamilton revolution. There was a picture that really just made me stop. Its a picture of the cast in a big prayer circle back stage in new york before they came out. It moved me to see that lynn and the entire cast was in this prayer circle before they came out on stage. Thats something in the first show that is something we did and i was involved. We did that prayer circle every day for i think it was three years the show was going. And i loved that because it just brought everyone together and sort of just unified us. Sometimes we would pray and sometimes we would go around and Say Something inspirational. It was a moment where you get to connect. Spiritual moment. And believe in this sharing the story that you are going to tell. So i think i have had a lot to do with the success of a piece. Not saying that that directly relates to a show running for three years. Into how the message is delivered, how unified a cast is going on stage because its you have to believe in what you doing. As a cast collectively hamilton does know what they are doing. I definitely we have moments like that back stage. You have moments where you connect and just sit with someone and pray together. Thats important. What is it . If i ask every member of the cast this question i get a different answer. Im asking you since you are here. What is it you think you are doing or hope you are doing every night . I hope that i am spreading a message of love, inclusion of the importance of diversity and the importance in this country is that we all have a unique thing to contribute. I think thats what hamilton and the way the story is told says so well that no matter where you are from or what you look like you can you have an importance. You have a unique voice. Thats what i hope to bring forth. I think some of the most amazing moments with this show has been at the stage doors where parents will come up to me and they have kids who look like me and they are like it was so important for me to bring my kids to see this so that they can see that they can do something great, too. They can see excellence and they can see someone like them shining. And that to me is everything. So much has been nimade to yr point about the diversity and inclusion in this wonderful production hamilton. And yet i have been in this business long enough to know that just because a movie in hollywood comes out and is a big hit with a bunch of people in it doesnt mean hollywood gets the message. Im wondering where you think broadway gets it now given what hamilton has been able to do. Are we having the conversation 20 years from now . I think hamilton has put the conversation more in the forefront than it has been. I think well see. Only time can tell to see. Theaters around the country are now questioning the way that they cast shows. And its an ongoing conversation that probably is not going to be over in 2020, but the fact that we are having it i think is a really good thing. It is asking us to ask really hard questions. But the main thing to take away for me right now is just what representation means and how it means so much. I remember coming to new york seeing my first couple broadway shows and the first one i saw was wicked and i saw the character fiero where he was the only principle of color in the cast at the time. I am here used to singing Old Man River and then i see ta digs in the role living his life in a way i havent thought was possible. It had me rethink everything in my audition book. Seeing him represent me. I was like i can do Something Like that and i can be many different things. I saw myself in him at that moment. I want to be that for other kids, as well. You are doing that now. I have a minute to go here. If i were you im not telling you how to do your business, i would like to get to a studio and like record an album of not this stuff because that is his money. But i would go to a studio if i were you while you are hot and like record an album of stuff that you want to do. Tavis, that is what is happening right now. You are doing that. Thats exactly the plan. I plan to have it released by february of next year right before i get back to broadway. And what kind of music can we expect from this album . Im a little broadway but i love funk and soul. If i had to put it together i would say stevie wonder, prince in a sound. I aint mad at you. [ laughter ] if you can do stevie and india and prince im buying it. You sold me. If you can pull that off, man. When you do come back and see us. Have a great rest of the run with hamilton. Thats our show tonight. Thanks for watching and as always keep the faith. For more information on todays show visit tavis smily. Join me next time for a conversation with martin sheen. That is next time. Well see you then. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Good evening from los angeles, im tavis smily, the fallout is happening in washington, tonight, the conversation with the nations magazine, john walsh, about the political implications of hurricane harvey. And then, well talk to a professor of southern texas university. Were glad you have joined us, all of that coming up in just a moment