Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20171013

And therefore the future, that people want to take comfort from the past, you want to anchor yourself, you want to know how did i get here, what is tera firma for me and the ultimate tera firma the ultimate place to find solid ground is within yourself. Rose we conclude this evening with the look at the netflix film the mierowitz story, starring Dustin Hoffman, adam sand already and elizabeth marvel. Im interested also with family mythologies and how families, starting with the parents invent a kind of mythology. I mean either consciencely or unconsciously. In this case it is about what makes a true artist. Rose katy tur, henry louis gates, jr. And the mierowitz stories when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following. Bank of america, life better connected. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose katy tur is here. She is a correspondent for nbc news. Sheses also an anchor for msnbc. She spent more than 500 days on the 2016 president ial campaign trail. She covered the can candidacy of donald trump a long the the future president often singled her out for criticism, her new memoir unbelievable documents that experience during this historic election. Im pleased to have katy tur back at this table, welcome. Hi, charlie. Rose its great to have you here. Tell me, you havent seen the president since the election. Not in person. I see him every day on television but mot in person since the election. Rose what is it. Since inauguration. Rose since inauguration, i want to am can back to the campaignment tell me what people are saying about him today. There are questions about what exactly is going on inside the white house. What does the president do every day. Is he as fully invested in the day to day operations of governing as he needs to be. Why is he getting so tis tracted by kabl news still and we are so many months after he was ig and raise inaugurated, the president of the United States and also has he lost a step. Gaib sherman was out with a report in vanity fair about this. And it essentially said what i have been hearing from my sources within the trump orbit, people in and out of the white house, that there seems to be Something Different about him today than during the campaign. Hi one person read the become and ask me, do you feel like he has lost a step since the campaign. Do you think something has changed. Rose somebody asked you that or you asked that question. Somebody asked me that after having read the book. Somebody within the trump world rrs because you few him during the campaign. Yeah. Rose do you think he has lost a step . I think that he has always been a combative person, hes always been the type of person who will counterpunch when he feels like hes under attack. During the campaign he very much reveled if going to these rallies and hearing the roar of the crowd. And that would combat some of the, what he felt to be negativity coming from the media. Now he doesnt have those rallies to feed off of any longer. Now it is, i think within his mind and within the white house, it feels like a daily onslawt of negative headlines. The issues that, many of them are of his own making because he responds and only furthers and deepens any given controversy. Rose you saw the power of those rallies. You are one of the reporters who i know thought he would win. Yeah. Rose and it was because of what you saw at those rallies. You saw what people were willing to do in order to see donald trump. They really connected with him. They really felt like he was somebody that would fight for them as opposed to all of these politicians in washington without seemed to say one thing on the cam paper trail and do another when, after they were elected. Donald trump was willing to say anything. He wasnt politically correct. He wasnt going to try and win their votes with empty promises. They believe that he would go to washington to do what he said he would do. But not even that. They dont hold him accountable for what he said he would do. If he went to washington and decided to reverse course on any number of issues, i would argue that many of his supporters would stay with him. Because ultimately what they wanted more was the man and not the policies. One quick anecdote because he didnt really have that many policies beyond were going to build a wall and were going to have extreme vetting or the muslim ban or were going to lower tax rates, broad strokes. Rose the iran deal. It wasnt uanced but i was speaking to one man outside of a rally in ohio and i asked why do you like donald trump. And the man said hes going to build a wall. I said what if he dnt build a wall. His response was its okay, i trust his judgement. Well, he often, didnt he say that i could shoot somebody on fifth avenue. An i would still have pie supporters. Rose my supporter was still support me. Thats how they felt about him. They were rabidly thuk about enthusiastic about donald trump, so much so that it wasnt just the folks that went to the rally and felt like they were unleashed in this space, they can unleash their demons. They can yell as loud as they could. They were free to be as crude as donald trump was being from the stage. It was people outside of the rallies as well. People that wouldnt necessarily advertise that they were donald trump supporters. Wouldnt go around with a make America Great again hat, wouldnt tell their neighbors. But people i get into conversations with on airplanes, cab drivers, cashiers at restaurants. Just anybody that we could talk to. And a lot of them after some pressing would admit yeah, i know, i really like him. And i dont think its an easy thing for me to admit to my fiends or my neighbors, so the polling, i would argue, wasnt quite as accurate as it normally would have been because pem were going to say one thing and then they got into the voting booth all alone in that booth and my producer and i imagined that a lot of folks would pull the lever for trump. Rose one of the great things that happened to you was being a Foreign Correspondent, all of a sudden are you back in new york for a peting and they say how would you like to cover donald trump, essentially changed your life. It totally changed my life. I moved to be done. I was planning on a four year stint overseas, maybe the rest of my life, frankly. Its a big world and that is a dream job. You get to travel everywhere. Rose Foreign Correspondent for a network. Dream job, dream job, the only job that i ever truly wanted when i got into the news business. Only job that i said i would allow to take me out of new york city or even los angeles. Rose did you come here for a visit. So i came for a visit. And i walk into the newsroom. You have to remind the bosses that you are alive alive when are you overseas because it can get slow, uni vision dropped donald trump, after he announced. Masseys had dropped donald trump, nbc dropped the univision, the Miss Universe pageant and they said we need somebody to cover this story. Who is around. And someone on nightly news said katy tur is just standing around. So i was just standing around and i got at signment of a lifetime. Rose this is the subject of your book, called unbelievable, my front row seat to the Craziest Campaign in american history. Why was it crazy . Because he defied political gravity at every turn. Because he said things nobody else would have been able to say in that position. Because he allowed other people to say things that they would never normally say. There were no rules for this campaign. There was no boundary, there was no tab, there was no taboo, no line that ton done all truch want will tok cross. Rose he was doing something right, obvious least because he won. Yeah. Rose beyond the fact that he had his own constituency. David brooks wrote this about him, it has to be admitted that donald trump is doing exactly what he was elected to do. He was not elected to be a legislative president. He never showed any real interest in policy during the campaign. He was elected to be a cultural president. He was elected to shred the dominant American Culture and to give voice to those who felt voiceless in that culture. Hes doing that every day. And i read about that in the beginning of the book, in the prolog of the book. I talk about who was a trump voter and how they might have been feeling. People who feel like theyre screaming in a crowded room full of other people wearing ear phones. People who you know, their bills were spiking but their paychecks were not. People whose food is full of chemicals, whose medicine cabinets are full of pills. This feeling that america had passed them by. They go into their local mainstream street and the shops are boarded up. There are Big Box Stores instead of mom and pops. There arent young families in the neighborhood. Rose and the jobs had moved away. The jobs had moved away. Rose here is what dave said too, interesting, what is troubling to me, he says those who were the targets of his a saul, the establishment, seemed to have no clue about what is going on. When they feel the most righteous like this past weaken they are actually losing and in the most peril. And he bose on to explain why he thinks that is happening. It is essentially teu. There is a sense in terms of the establishment, a bewilledderment about donald trump. I think thats right. And i think if you pick up this book and you read it you will have a better understanding of i think its he a easy to forget what happened on the campaign. Its easy to just white wash it in your brain and to say it was just nothing but a political anomaly an can never happen again. And how dare donald trump come in and not do the things we expect the president to do. Go back and read and get the day to day of what happened and will you see. Ros and as you suggest, art of the deal where he talks about i understand and i feed peoples fantasies. Absolutely. Truthful hyperbole is what he says. Jimmy breslynn said it best. He gives people a razzledazzle. He is good at convincing you that he is special. That he is unique. And that he is someone who can do something that no one else can. Which is what he did on the campaign trail. He would stand up on a podium and say i alone can fix it. And people bought into that because they bought into this idea of who donald trump was, this deal maker. This unparalleled businessman. This saf ant when it comes to success and part of the reason they bought into that is because of his stipt on the apprentice. Rose tell me how that followed. Because he was a salesman. Hes with a salesman. And he presented himself on the apprentice as the ultimate businessman, the hirer and firer. And the decider. And he knew who would do well in any given job. He was able to, they would say to may, hes going to hire the right people. How do you know hes going to hire the right people. Because i saw him do it on the apprentice. He did a very good job of building the mythology around donald trump. Hes always done this, charlie. Youve known him for decades. He did this in the 80s and the 90s, in new york with the tabloids. He sold himself. He would call up reporters and tell them donald trump cant lose. Donald 2ru6r7 is bigger than life. I will coming ba. And the reporter was buy into it and report that and it would create this. Rose he believed that or he believed it was important at least for you to believe that. I think they are one and the same. I think he believes, he believes what he is saying. Rose did they think he was going to win. No, up until that day, Kellyanne Conway was on with chuck todd on november 8th blaming the rnc. Blaming the gop for not supporting dn ald trump, their internal polls did not have him winning. A couple people on the campaign thought the way some of the reporters including me did which was that this enthusiasm has got to show up. And this enthusiasm is not being captured correctly by the polls. So there was a sense. Rose that was their core believe. A core belief. Rose he believed those rallies said where america was. I think he went on and off about whether or not he with win. And towards the end i think he started to feal like was definitely not going to win. That is when you saw him go out and talk about these conspiracy theories that the big banks and Hillary Clinton and the liberals and the media, and other shady elites. Rose he was refused to eliminate the idea that he would protest the results if he didnt like them. Yeah. He was setting himself up for if he doesnt win, then there was fraud. Rose did he win the election or did she lose it . . I think its a combination 689 i think that its hard to say this close to it. I think we need a lot more distance from it. But for as much as people like donald trump, people hated Hillary Clinton. Rose and the con stit wednesdays that elected pim him, the imiks of his doar supporters but he had to have more than that. He did. Rose the political question for me is the more than that, are they still with him . That is a really good question. And there are polls that indicate that that could be breaking here and there. The people who held their nose and decided to vote for donald trump because they didnt like Hillary Clinton or they were worried that she might be under federal investigation, where do they stand now. That is what we should be watching out for. I think its very depend ent on who the democrats put up for 2020. Rose there is speculation, someone quoted, not sure whether he said it or not but he was quoted by saying by steve bannon he thought it was a 30 chance he woon survive the first term. Are people speculating on that . You know, when i asked. Rose when you talk of the 25th amendment. When i ask folks of inn that world what they think of donald trump and his chances for reelection, whether he would run for reelection, will he remain throughout this term, and the question is generally i dont know. Any, all omgs are in the air. I would be surprised if donald trump walked away from this willingly. Just as i thought it was inconceivable that he would have walked away from the campaign willingly when the access Hollywood Tape broke when everybody was telling him to. I dont think he wants to be seen. Rose everybody but steve bannon. Yeah, i done think he wants to be seen as a loser or as a quitter. I dont know if steve bannon was trying to fire a shot over the bow that says listen, get on board with me, get on board with who i think you should have in place in 2018, my can the did because of the democrats come in and win the house, you will be impeached. Rose how did you hear back from the campaign when were you singled out, holler to the crowd there is katy tur in the back. You know, you wave it off. You shake it off. You dont worry about it. I remember thinking what is the point of this. Rose what was the point of it . Well, it is a lot of factors, i was the first correspondent to cover the campaign full time. I was the first person from a Mainstream Media outlet, from nbc news, of all outlets, to say we think you are a serious political candidate, a player. You have a chance here. So he would see me at rallies for months on end before anybody else would show up. We were going to places all around the country where i was the only face that he recognized in the crowd. Because other reporters werent on that beat full time. And so we developed a rapport. He often would come back and talk to the reporters after a rally or before a rally immediately and i would get my questions answered all the time. So when he needed a media foil to represent the lying scum press that he would call out from the stage, he knew that i would be back there. He knew he could safely say katy tur, shes back there and everybody would be able to turn around and find me. There were times where it felt uncomfortable and threatening. Certainly the muslim ban day in south carolina. Rose what happened that day. So this is december 7th, 2015. And just recently a couple from San Bernardino went up and shot an office party. President obama the night before gave a speech on terrorism and donald trump comes out the feks day and announces he wants a muslim ban. And he is saying that the Obama Administration is not vetting people properly. Theyre letting terrorists come in and your muslim neighbors are hiding them for you. They are building bombs in your living room, they are out to get you, your livers are at risk. The majority of Republican Voters most feared being the vek tim of a terrorist attack. And donald trump was saying the media was complicit in this because they are not reporting it. Theyre in the telling you that the Obama Administration isnt being is being lax with the borders. So in this room of people who are waiting for done alt trump to officially announce that he doesnt want any muslims to come into the country, this room of people where we couldnt find a Single Person who thought it was a bad idea, he starts go after the press. And he singles me out. He says little katy, shes back there. He points may out in the crowd. And the whole room, thousands of people, turn around and yell at me at once. Stand on their chairs to boo me. Rose turn towards you. Turn towards me. Rose and start booing. Booing and pointing and calling me names. And it was threatening. Rose and you were you were feeling what . In the moment i remember. Rose fear. In the moment i thought to myself, smile and wave. Rose stay cool. So i smiled and waved. Because if they are intimidating you or if they think you are scared, then its worse. And so i did a live shot and another live shot and there were strag ellers that were waiting behind the press pen and my phone is blowing up with frantic messages if my mother hoping that im safe. And messages from my bosses hoping the same thing. And from fellow journalists on twitter, coming to my defense. And i finished my live shot and we think its a good idea to get out of there. And a trump staffer finds me and says these guys are going to walk you out. And it was two secret service agents. Rose you have been asked what question you would like to ask him and you have said why dont you tell the truth. What do you think the answer is to that question . Why doesnt he tell the truth . Because the truth is not in his favor. Rose in anyway. So when elys he knows he is lying. I done know how he couldnt know that he did not have the biggest inauguration crowd. I dont know after all the times that we have corrected him that he can say that america is the highest tax nation in the world. I mean he says things hes corrected in the moment and then he says them again. So i i. Rose or he will say i read it somewhere. Im obviously not in his mind but hes been corrected publicly a lot for a lot of the things he says. And he still says them. Rose does he have selfdoubt at all. Doesnt seem like he does. Rose who has the capacity to say no to him today . Thats a really good question. I think that his, his kids do have the capacity to say that. Tom ber eck. Rose do you think they do say it . I dont know. Im not in his room. Rose tom barek today was profiled. He said he will say no to him. Rose i think he does, i mean i think he will. I have known tom for awhile too. There is a faw people within his orbit that have been there long enough to know how to relate to him on a honest level. I think keith his long time bodry bawrd who is no longer with the white house. Rose there is a feeling that general kelly who now controls access to him has actually done a disfavor to the president because the president show fed off of the fact that people could just come in and talk to him. That it buoyed his spirits to be able to have that. That could be true. Rose loose connection to people without a kind of formal structure, without somebody else being the gate keeper for him. The thing i would add about who can say no to him, what i have noticed most within Donald Trumps world and those who work for him, those who are close to him, those who have a relationship with him is that he, he inspires a lot of devotion and people. Rose inspires or demands . Demands, maybe both. But you know, people, you know when you would ask a lot of the people that he is close with, what do you think of when he does this, or do you think he is actually fit to be president , do you think he cares enough about policy. The answer i would get even in private is you know, he is a wonderful man. And he cares about this country. And he will be great for this country. That was an almost unfailing answer from everybody in this world am i done know if it is a demand. I dont know if its inspiration. But they saw, they feel that way. Rose thank you for coming. Thanks for having me. Rose the book is called unbelievable, my front row seat to the Craziest Campaign in american history. Accounty tur, back in a katy tur, back in a moment, stay with us. Henry louis gates, jr. Is here one of our most respected scholars of africanamerican history. His pbs series finding your roots is currently in its fourth year. The season features many bold faced names including scarlet swroa hanson, larry david, and Bernie Sanders. Here is a look. We match your dna against everybody who has been in any of my series. If you have long identical stretches, that means youre cousins. I have some cousins. Yep. I hope its a good athlete. What the hell youre kidding. Oh my god. laughter that is unbelievable. Its true. Its true. Thats so funny. That is really funny. That is amazing. That is amazing. Yeah, all right, cousin bernie. Counsel sin bern yea. People say to me, they talk about larry david. And i say he does a better Bernie Sanders than i do. Oh my god. Rose im pleased to have henry louis gates, jr. Back at the table. Welcome ba back. Thank you, my friend. Rose Bernie Sanders an larry david are cousins. You never know what is hiding in your genome, do you. Rose you do not, how did this come b the fourth season, what started it. Remember, it started in 2005, it was called africanamerican lives and i only did africanamericans. The truth is that i wanted to do a 21s century version of alex halley roots and i wanted to get eight prominent africanamericans. And i would trace their family tree back to the abyss of slaffery, the tomb of slaffery because that is when records for black people disappear, obviously. And then what i call, reverse the pass age through dna and find out what ethnic group they were from in africa like alex halley claimed that he did. Is so i got oprah win tree, chris tucker, quincy jones, it was an experiment. And it was a big hit. And so pbs asked me to do a sequel. And we called africanamerican lives too and we did Morgan Freeman the man who played god and the president , maya ang lou. Rose all people who were famous and celebrities. Yeah. Rose and the idea is what, that their lives will be more interesting to people. Yeah, well, you know, viewerrers real people without tune in want to look over your shoulder. Rose which is the reason they want to know about people that are famous. Right. And this is an archival form of gossip am but heres when the brand changessed. I get a letter, charlie, i started getting all these letters from people. And i get a letter from a russian jewish woman who said dear dr. Gaits, i always admired your career and stands on mrlt culturallism and Cultural Diversity but after watching two seasons of african lives i decided you are a big fat racist because you only do black people, so my whole identify is african and African American studies that is my day job. Have i been a professor of that since i cass 26 years old, yale, cornell, duke. Harvard. And i so i had to ask some friends and pbs, can i span the brand. And we decided that we would do that. Why wouldnt we share this fabulous experience with everybody. So we did a show called faces of america, it was a four hour experiment. And we had to decide i know how to pick black people but then i had to figure out how do you pick quite people. They come in kinds, right. And what about asian people, what about say muslims and catholics. So i did what noah would do. Two jews, two catholics, two italians, two irish people. Christie yam gucci,ioio ma from china and it was, mar lousily received and approximate, bs asked me to do a weekly series, changed the name to finding your roots and this is the fourth season. Rose you discover we all come from one race. 50,000 years ago, everybody, all of your ancestors, no matter what you look like today were wandering around or wandering out of east africa, and that is a fact. Were over 99. 9 , fact that bill clinton loves to quote, that we are 99. 9 identical. Rose right. But in the name of that tiny little genomic difference, people kill people, wage wars, enslave people, so i am often asked why do you do the series, the real reason is to deconstruct, receive notions of perceived notions of race and biological difference. To show no matter what the law was, prohinting shall we say comingling at night for time immemorial, everybody wag sleeping with everybody else. Sometimes it was in the case of slaffery, it was rape. Rose not con sen all. But other times, other times it was. You know one of the most interesting things i have learned from this series, is that we have each of our guests to 3dna companiesk people of recent african desent, the black people, africanamericans, none has ever been tested by us and i think sle few by any of these d incomer a companies who is 100 percent sub saharan africa. The average africanamerican is 24 european, isnt that amazing. And 0. 8 . Rose how did that happen. Slafery. Rose transported them to places, europe and the United States. Well, the slave trade to the new world specifically. And more specifically to the United States. So every africanamerican that i test, i say do you have native american ancestry. They say yeah, my great great gand ma, high cheek bones and straight black hair, one of the greet myths american but american genology and almost none of them have native american ancestry. The only people that we tested that had High Percentage you would be amazed. Valory jar et did, oprah did and chris tucker. Rose High Percentage. Native american. Vallary jar et was 5 native american. How do you do this, is it simply a test that because of the mapping of the human genome. Test tube. So you take dna. You take their dna. And analyst it and what does that analysis tell you. Different things. It will tell you in the case of us, males our ydna which you inherit from your father, half the group. Your mighto conned real which you inherit from your mother but your ad mixture which is your percentages over the last say 500 years since the time of columbus of native american ancestry, european ancestry, sub saharan ancestry and asian ancest rear and then subdivisions maybe 30, or 60 subdivisions. That is fine and goodment but i want to know where was my great great great great great grandfather and who did he marry and how many children he had had and where were they. That is the firs part of our series which is your genology, your family tree. The funny thing i only realized when we were filming the first person in 2005, when i thought that africanamericans would be moved more emotionally by discovering their african origin, i only discovered when the first guest broke down and cried when they saw their slaf ancestors, that what people really bond to emotionally is exactly what you said. What was pie great, great grandfather doing. Who was my great great grandmother. How did they get to america. When did they become americans, what were they fleeing, happy people dont migrate. Rose which true. How many were scholars, how many were farmers. And am i royal. Am i royal. Yeah. Im sure i was royal were going to find out but what you want to know, it is the essential question, the essential search for everybody, who am i. Who am i. People ask me, why is finding your roots so popular. As area we had three Million Viewers a week, why, i think because we have so much anxiety about the present and therefore the future that people want to take comfort from the past. You want to anchor yourself. You want to know how did i get here, what is tera firma for me and the ultimate tera firma, the ultimate place to find solid ground is within yourself. You are carrying dna, actually from each of the ancestors back six generations, so if you use 30 years, that is everybody in your family tree from 180 years back, you actually are carrying dna from them. Are you like a walking family tree. And then when you hear these stories and nobody that i have ever weve done hundreds of people now. No one knows anything, i used to think it was only black people without didnt know. White people, wasps dont know, jews dont know, muslims dont know, nobody knows. Rose it is the reason that kids who have been adopted even though they have had loving adoptive parents want to know. Charlie, we have the most amazing adoption story that we have ever done, at thea leonei, i think it is the last episode. Her mother was adopted. And adopted as an infant in texas. And she and at thea tea only told me this when we filmed her. This had been arguing about her being in the series for a year or more because her mother didnt want to know and tea did want to know. And you cant guarantee that we are going to find your birth mother or birth father. Its very, very difficult. And we have a geological geneticist, the sher lock holmes of genology and specializes in adoptees. To make a long story short. I said to tea you know, i promised you nothing, but i warranted you that the best we could do is our admixture, we could find out if you are birth grandmother was of irish desent or french, jewish, i said pes turn the page, she turned the page and she melts. She is looking at a woman, obviously not her mother but her mother is the spitting image and she knew it was her biological grandmother. Are you looking at your biological grandmotherment and she wilted. So we had to. She can find her biological grandmother cant she find her biological mother. She knows her mother. But we were looking for teas mothers mother and father. Right. She was looking for grandparents. Right. So we found the grandparents, the grandfather, so then she goes off to because she just fell apart. You can imagine. Then she comes back and shes still fighting back tears and says tell me about her, when did she tie. I said tea she didnt die, she is sill living and she fell apart again. Can you imagine, and we found her mothers biological father who had passed on. And the biological father is descended from a man who was the next door neighbor to george washington, her 6th or 7th great grandfather. Mount vernon. He had his own estate, she had nod why. Its amazing the secrets. That is the romance of it all. It is fabulous. Look at, when we do janet moss. And African American, you know what moves him the most, not knowing where they are from in africa, it is knowing the names of their enslaved ancestors and if you are lucky, the white people. Giving dignity. And finding out where their names come from because the overwhelming percent of africanamerican took their names from some white person who owned them. So janet moss, we always ask people, what do you want to know. That was a ben affleck story too, ben affleck didnt want you to disclose. Thats right. And you didnt. And then there was a little business about investigating that, but is that, does that happen often . No. Was that an isolated example of somebody would comes and say this is embarrassing to me, whatever it might be. No, never happened since and also people know the rules. Cant even ask. You cant ask for something after its filmed not to be disclosed. But staying with the idea, are people frequently embarrassed what they find out. Its not all its not all heroic and romantic, its often might be that there is somebody who was very bad is in their line of ancestry. Someone made a joke that one of my principal jobs is making people feel better about having owned slaves, right. I mean i dont think the guilt is herritiable. My job, i do your family tree and season five and we talked about this. It is you, have ancestors who enod slaves. My job is not to make you feel bad and beat up on you about it. I am value neutral. Im just reporting what your ancestor was. You know, we have an awkward situation with fred who finds out, was very proud of his japanese heritage, his grandfathers was massali kuni, turns out he wasnt japanese, he was korean who was sent to japan to be educated and adopted a japanese identity, in fact he just passed for japanese. And then during world war ii was engaged by the nazis, he was a dancer, famous dancer even has a Little Museum in japan. He was engaged to entertain the german troops in europe. That is very embarrassing thing. He had no idea. What about carly simon. A dear friend and i would tease her about her lips. You know cuz her lips, look at her lips, i said you got Something Back there, and she would laugh. And i cajoled her, cajoled her and finally she agreed. So my partner is a cuban historian and this is crucial to the story. Carly we asked people to tell us what they know. And she said that her grandmother, she most wanted to foa about her grandmother nickname was sheebi, she claims she was the il legit mass offspring between the king of spain and a more octoberan slave, please, you believe that. Turns out. It was true. Please sheeba 40 black. We found out that sheebi great great grandparents were free people of color, they had been liberated slaves. We triangulate her dna, about 40 black which means carlys mother, 20 black and that carly is about just under 10 black. 10 african. Carly, 10 is roughly equivalent to the amount of dna you would inherit from a great tbrand mother of full african ancest rear. We have never tested a white person as black as you. Cant wait to call my sisters and my brother and tell them this. This is on pbs every night, every week, at what time. 8 00 on tuesday night. 8 00 tuesday night. Be there, be square. Hope you watch it. Thank you for coming. Thank you, my brother. Rose back in a moment, sta stay with us. The mieroowitz story is a new story of the film has received wide spread praise, here is the trailer. That is why we could get the table last men, that is why they gave us this big a table. I imagine well send complimentary stuff too. 55 for a steak. Known for their meet here. 35 for a sal monday . You get the sal monday to blow you for that price . I live my. Are you harold meyeoowitz son matthew. Yes, this is i didnt realize he has two sons. An a daughter. You will be okay here. It will be nice to spend time with dadment i dn get a lot of time with him growing up. Dad what the [bleep] everything to gain. Take all of the little birds and deep fry them. Very sad. There were no little birds left in italy, they have eaten them all. Are you going to meet a lot of interesting new people. Didnt make it a month at college because i like drugs so much. Herr old meyeroowitz. You are on the list for the public viewing, this is the private viewing. She hears everything are you saying. Where have all the good times tbon. Where have all the good times gone. I done think i have ever seen jean run. What is going on . Why are we running. Run, run. Wont you tell me. Where have all the good times gone. You kicked me in the shin. Rose joining me the director and three of the actors Noah Baumbach is a writer and director, Dustin Hoffman plays the family pat ree arc harold, adam sandler the oldest son danny and elizabeth marvel, the daughter jean, i am pleased to have all of them here at this table. Great to have you. Thank you. Rose tell us about the meyeroowitz family. Well, we always talked about in a way, dustin who plays a sculpt ter. Is he the father. Harold. And it is a family where i feel like art has taken the place of religion, that they all sort of look up to the artist and to art as sort of the hierarchy of the success or fulfillment or happiness. And because harold is also not had the success that he hoped for, its the happiness has not come with it. And he, the story sort of tells sort of brocken up too sections. And we have the kids from his first marriage are played by adam and beth marvel. And then he left their mom and married another woman and had ben stillers character. Rose who is off in l. A. Making a lot of money. Yes. He is. He is a Business Manager but is he not an artist. So of course he feels he has his own sort of sense of what he hasnt accomplished because he went another way. And the movie is sort of, you know, sort of i guess documents in a way how these adult siblings have kind of come to contend with this figure in their life. Rose so dustin how did you see him, harold, how did you see him, how did he inhabit this patriarch. Well, my father had a lot of patriarchal qualities. And when we met we started talking about our families. So you know, not for attribution but off the record. My fathers past, his is still alive so we have to be a little ju di shus. But yes,. Rose so you reach in addition your own understanding of your father and how he was. Yes. Rose did you call him your. This whole idea that i havent seen put on screen before of success and failure. What constitutes success. What constitutes failure as an artist. In other words, you can fail as an artist, there is history of it, van gogh, whoever. And it has nothing to do with, you know, the depths or quality. Rose of your art. Thats right. Rose or even its later financial success. Yes. So tell me what you wanted to do here. I mean youve gnt these really interesting actors playing the dynamics of a family. This is not a new subject for you, what happens within families. It seems to be your. Yeah, i i dont know exactly what brought me back to it except i think i was i am interested in also family mythologies and how families starting with the parents invent kind of a mythology. I mean eithe and they, you know, go out with their own lives they become their own personal mythologies which sometimes at the dont even realize. And i think a lot of growing up is kind of, is almost, you know, unlearning some of this, sometimes. Rose the relationship or how or the impact of the parent on the child. And also unlearning what they have been taught or what they have, you know, theyve sort of almost dont realize they believe that they believe. And in this case its about what constitutes success. I mean is it, you know, adams character is, was a musician, a frustrated musician who never pursued it. But was clearly talented. But was a wonderful father. But because thats not valued, parenting is not valued in the family, he feels like a failure. But hes got this amazing daughter. Hes clearly done an incredible job by another family standards, he would be a breat success like what bens character is makes a lot of money, hes very successful Business Manager. And but hes not an artist. And. Rose so by the values he learned, hes not successful. Exactly. Rose what about swreen . Well, thats a great question. I think to me, its so interesting. Because we were saying you know, when you are making, you are kind of like a mole in the debtor and are you just in it. And then you get to this point in the process where everyone is talking about it. And you are looking objectively at it and you start to feel these things that arent just coming on instinct. So its jean is very interesting because i think she did not suffer from the pressure of her fathers gaze because she wasnt seen. So she doesnt have that measuring stick enforced on her. Because she left and created a world for herself where she could, that was safe and joyful in jeans land. And yet, he did do enough of a job that we all come home. We all are there for dinner. We all still love each other. So thats something. Thats not nothing. Rose that is not nothing at all. Did you see these actors and ben as well in your mind when you were writing this, or did you write these characters and then look around and say. Well, it started actual leigh with ben and i had done two movies previously. We did greenburg and while were young. And i had an idea, i was sort of thinking about adult siblings and i came to ben and i actually, cuz adam had reached out to me a few years earlier and said you know, if you ever have anything. Rose ever have anything come by. Which is, you know, which many actors will say and then years later you will send them something and they will say sorry, i didnt respond to this. Rose yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks, i cant wait for you to offer me again. On my way. Rose i spent all this money i have. Yeah. But adam was true to his word. But i actually, ben, adam and i had lunch, i done know, a few years ago and talked about what became the meyeroowitz, we didnt know what it was. We talked about a lot of things, about our lives but all i left with was there should be a physical fight between ben and adam at some point in the movie. Rose you have no interest in making like an action adventure thriller . Thats a movie i would see. Rose dustin as a killer. We can probably come up with something pretty good right now. I should be double o7, cast incorrectly. Yes. Rose so in a sense there is those personalities and those skills that they each had sort of seeped into your brain because are you talking about it. Yes. And so i did have adam and ben in mind. Although when i first showed the script to people they, really the first few people all assumed that the other actor was playing the other part. Rose you thought were you playing bens character. I tell you, i i read it and i would go back to the beginning and go okay, he said im danny, because i did, i could see me being bens part and both parts were pretty great. And but yeah, it was it was just the mans vision. And i was danny. Rose do you feel like when you play a character like danny that these are some, you are working with some muscles that you dont normally used or havent necessarily always used. Sure, yes, yes. Rose and you like that idea, i would assume. Yes. I either go with this is in me or someone close to me, ive seen act like this. Rose but in your own basketball terminology, you not only can drive but hit a three pointer. I used to be a lot better at both but yes, yeah. Rose just wait and i will show you. Right. I would love to be on the same team with you, charlie. I dont want to get swatted by the charlie rose hand. Rose he says that because im from North Carolina that is the only reason he says it and because i went to you can do. He thinks anybody from North Carolina and went to duke plays basketball, which is true. Exactly. Rose so all of this is about the tension within a family, all of whom have this value code about the art and intelligence. Yes. Yeah. And then also what is your role as a child, as a grown child. Rose and how. I mean what is your responsibility, i mean maybe biv it away but sort of later in the movie, harold ends up in the hospital and so there is this sort of thinking well, what happens if you are, you know, you have these complicated feelings about your parent and in bens characters case hes actually sort of more actively rejecting the parent. And then suddenly you know, you cant get angry at him. Hes in this very vulnerable state. So because of that that things change in the second half of the movie. And also its two sets of families. We have jean and danny from one mom and matthew from the other. And then they all come together. Theyve actually not been in the same movie until this third section. Rose was the beard your idea . No, nothing was my idea. Rose you are an actor, you do what they tell you. You wear the clothes. You wanted harold to have a beard. The first thing he said. First thing he said. I think so. Yeah, to start growing it. I imagined harold with a beard but also i felt like i wanted to change dustins face. I felt like, i asked you have ever had a beard in a movie. I think you said lenny was maybe the only time and this was a din kind of beard. So i sort of thought it would i had a feeling, you said it changed how you felt about yourself, how you played the part having the beard. I think a lot of what you do as a director and a friend as long as i have known you is that you dont really know consciencely why you make certain decisions, which is quite wonderful. And i think after i was wearing it, after i have seen it, it is his pretension to prove that hes an artist. And i think that was in there,. Rose pretension to prove hes an artist. Yes, he wants everyone to know hes an artist i think, not consciencely but i think he wants to be known and respected in a way that he never has been. Rose do you want to do standup, ever want to go out and just say. Ive been doing it again. Rose have you really . Yes, yes, last few years running around putting together an act it is going well. Rose have you been putting it together. No, ive been i forced myself, i book shows. And that way have i to go to the improv and other breat clubs, just stop by and try and new stuff out. Rose do they react to the characters you have been in the movie or. I nishally i get a nice response because they, the audience has seen my, some of my stuff. But i get, try to shut that down and try to get to the stuff i want to talk about or try out. Rose are you an actor who just simply used to do comedy or in fact are you a comedian who became an. I dont know. I like doing them all. I like, this is a tremendous gift. I dont know what i did to deserve it, because when i read the script. Rose i think they call it talent. Have i some of that, i will take it. But yeah, i like it all. I like it all, charlie. And you know, its funny, while you were talking about dad here, being kind of the, the one we talk about and we live by for his approval, it is funny, my sister, my father was the man in my family. We all loved everything he did. And he had rules and we lived by his rules. And its funny, my sister, my father passed away maybe 12 years, 13 years. The way i am raising the kids now with my wife on occasion pie sister will say dad wouldnt like that. Dad wouldnt like that. Why is she dad wouldnt become and i always go, and it really shakes me up. And i start questioning, oh, man, have i to figure that out, that dad wouldnt like. Rose what did you see punch drunk love . Yes. That is the first time i saw adam do, you know, noncomedy. I didnt foa him, i called him up. I said i dont think you are aware of what a wonderful character you really did someone who was bipolar, at least. And i thought it was very good work. Rose congratulations to all of you. Thank you thank you nice to see you. Nice to see you, always. Thanks a lot, charlie. Rose thank you for joining us. See you next time. For more about this program and er8ier episodes visit us online at pbs. Org and charlie rose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Youre watching pbs. Martha stewart are you eager to learn how to update your Favorite Recipes with better for you ingredients from the modern pantry . Then you wont want to miss this season of martha bakes. Join me in my kitchen where ill teach you how to transform everything from traditional cakes, pies and even breads with new ingredients, plus mouthwatering gluten and dairy free treats for everyday and every occasion. Welcome to a new way to bake. Narrator martha bakes is made possible by. 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