Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20171012

New album is called this old dog. Its funny to get labeled with Something Like that, because that is a very, you know, it holds some kind of weight, singer songwriter or even being called an artist, i still feel weird about that. Because in reality to me its just like i was 18, making songs in my garage and you know, turns out after a bit of time some people listened to them and its cool. Rose bob schieffer, Hari Sreenivasan, and mac demarco when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following bank of america, life better connected. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Bob schieffer has been at cbs news since 1969. Hes covered all the major beats in washington including the pentagon, white house, congress and state department. For 24 years he was the anchor of face the nation, he retired in 2015. Hes won 8 emmys and been named a Living Legend by the library of congress. His heatest book called overload finding the truth in todays deluge of news. I spoke with him last week at the 92nd street y here in new york and here is that conversation. applause i tell you, its worth aming up here just to get introduced by charlie. All right, first thing you notice he dnt have his boots on but he has his push el socks on, because that is the colors of ptu. Every day he gets up and pulls on purple socks and these are tonights version, so there you go. You know why . Rose why. I will tell you why. I didnt plan it this way but when tcu want to the rose bowl five or six years ago and we hadnt been to the rose ball since 1937, so it was a really big deal. So i got up at this pep rally and i was just trying to think of something to say that nobody else had said. And i said if you guys win i will wear purple socks for the rest of my life. I had no idea they were going to win. They won. laughter . Rose and its probably worth it for you. So far. Rose whats fascinating is the first story is how you came to write this, and the conversation you had. And well meet your coauthor but the conversation you had with someone who basically said was happening in journalism is an issue of National Security. Yes. John hamry who is the head of csis in washington which is the center for strategic and international study, its i think the leading think tank in washington but there is some other really good ones. But dr. Hamry who was deputy secretary of defense in the Clinton Administration and is a true defense intellectual, he is respected by people on both sides and all sides of Foreign Policy issues. We were having coffee with Andrew Schwartz who was with me on this book, he is the chief of communications at csis and we were just talking about journalism and where it is today. And with all of this fake news, with all of the questions about what can you believe and all of that, dr. Hamry said this is a National Security issue. And so andrew and i started this series of podcasts where we just started calling up people in all parts of journalism, the editor of the Washington Post, reporters for politico, we did 44 podcasts starting in the summer of 2016ment and we gt about, i would say into about ten of them and we thought you know, this might make might make the usual washington report that think tanks put out. And then the more we thought about it, i said you know, if im going to do Something Like that, i want people to read it i dont think there is any other reason to write a report or a book. So we decided to make a book out of it and that is how this book came about. It was a fascinating process and project because what the book is about is we are in the midst of a Communications Technology revolution that is having as profound affect on our culture and the people of our time as the invention of the pret Printing Press had on the people of that day, but the difference is, while the presents principle improves literacy, it also was followed by 30 years of religious wars and it was literally 30 years, three decades before equilibrium was reached in yawrp. Were at the very binning of beginning of this communications revolution, it is having a profound affect on all of our institutions but especially on the way we get our news and also on our politics, and were right in the middle of it right now. Rose i want to talk about it, i assume the title overload is how much new there is out there and how to respond to it. Yes. Rose but there is also as you quote the president of npr, the scarsest resource in journalism now is attention span. We used to live in a world governed by the laws of physics, time and space, time on the air, space in the newspaper. They were our restrains, the reality right now is how long can you keep your audience, your followers consuming the journalism you create. Thats right. And this is come about for several reasons. Number one the decline of newspapers. We all know because of the coming of the weapon which has drained away the advertising which used to be the lifeblood of our newspapers, newspapers as we have known them are going away. We have lost 126 newspapers over the last 12 years, here is an interesting statistic. In 2000 2004 one reporter in eight lived in washington, new york ors will ang less. Now that number is down to one reporter in five lives in one of those three cities. So when you get out into the midwest and across the rust belt, its not a question of whether people are getting biased news, theyre getting no news from reliable sources. Most of their news is now coming from facebook and social media. Rose 63 of the people today. 63 now get at least some of their news from facebook. Which is fine. Its a great way to have communication with your neighbors and whats going on in the neighborhood and your relatives. But things that appear on facebook have not gone through the editing process that you would be used to seeing on the front page of your local newspaper in days gone by. And in the mainstream media. For example, i mean, those, at cbs or the New York Times or the Washington Post or its a good newspapers that are left, you can generally assume that we dont broadcast or publish something, charlie, unless weve gone to some trouble to find out if its true. That is not the standard that is being followed throughout social media. Rose yes, so many people can be their own publishers is what happened, the personification of the medium. What happened yesterday, after this horrendous event happened in las vegas, social media was filled with all kinds of stories. The first one was that the shooter was an antitrump liberal who liked rachel mad ou maddow. Im serious, that is what it was. And they also said that he had converted to islam. And was associated with isis and alqaeda. All of those things, all of those topics are absolutely false and totally without foundation. But i actually called cbs yesterday, something kicked up on my phone that said he had converted to islam. And i called one of the producers at charlies broadcast and i said is that right. No, its totally wrong. Rose no evidence. And thats what happened now. So who can blame people when they say who can i believe, who can i trust. There is so much out there were being bombarded for all sides 24 7 by this stuff. And it is just almost impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff. Rose so everybody in this audience is saying how do we do it, how do we figure out what is true and was real. Well, i think the first thing we have to do, joe ny, National Security expert up at harvard and has been in various administrations said well never defeat this by just simply answering every lie. What you have to do is you have to inoculate people before hand. Make them aware of was going on and what they might expect. And think thats the best way to do it. But there are going to have to be some major reforms. Facebook and google for a time were saying look, were not a media company. We are a technology company. And we cant be responsible for what shows up on our website. Now this is this is a company that 62 of the American People or many of them depending on it as their only source of news and many for some news. You have to take responsibility for that. And they are beginning to do that. They are beginning to do that and that is the most hopeful sign that has happened so far. But in the beginning, this thing just got away from everybody before we really realized the significants. Rose so what would be the pushback. Is the pushback that people become alarmed in terms of what they hear and see and not knowing what is true, if after the Printing Press was invented there was a pushback, is the pushback were experiencing now the sense of credibility of news . Yes. And lets make no mistake. The russians are playing a role in this. There is no question that they are. At csis Heather Connelly one of the scholars there has done a study called the kremlin playbook. Shes gone through and looked across Central Europe at the behavior of the russians there. The russians dont drive their tanks across borders any more. They found out its much cheaper to use cyberand to adopt a kind of soft power methods. And basically what theyre doing in these countries is theyre bribing local officials. Theyre making sweetheart deals with local businessmen in these countries, making loans to them. Things of that nature. And doing everything they can to destabilize the press. And to raise questions about the credibility of the press in these countries. And theyve had remarkable success with that. And if any of that sounds familiar, its what has been going on in this country over the last year or so. Theres no question in all of our intelligence people agree with that assessment. The only person without questions it is the president. Rose the president and steve bannon. Yeah rdz the questions of newspapers just for a moment, you came from the Fort Worth Star telegram great newspaper in texas and forth wort. The Washington Post has turns things around. Yes. Rose jeff bezos bought the Washington Post and helped them understand how to use the electronic medium. They have. And the post, i must say, is leading the way. Because were focused on the bad news of what is happening with this Technology Revolution but theres some very good news there. And the Washington Post with marty barron as the editor has found a way for newspapers to survive. And i think if newspapers do survive this, i think jeff bezos is going to deserve most of the credit. Rose you said he is singly handedly is saving the newspapers. He may have single handedly have done it. What they have done, they are no long a newspaper company, the New York Times is doing the same thing now. These companies are no longer Just Companies that publish a newspaper. They have turned themselves into Media Companies and they are producing a product that goes out on a variety of platforms. Theyre digital platform, they put out newsletters every day. They are finding just more and more ways to reach their viewers. The Washington Post now has a Video Division where they put out videos to supplement their news coverage. But in the old days both the times and the post, you know, everyone rve everybody wondered in at about 10 or 11 00 in the morning. They want and covered their beats, talked to their sources. Then everybody got back to the office about 5 30 and wrote for a 7 00 deadline and then everybody want home and they came back the next day and did the same thing. Now all of these companies have completely changed their schedules. And heres another thing. In those days which i called gatekeeper era of journalism where you had three television stations in every town and everybody had a pretty good newspaper in their town, people generally base their opinions on the data they got from those sources. Now with the echo Chamber Channels that we have and so many of the social Media Channels out there, if you get your news from this source over here, youre also getting one set of facts. If you get it from this source over here, youre getting another set of facts. So what has happened is were now basing our opinions on separate sets of facts. Were no longer have common data that were basing our opinions on. So is it any wonder that the partisan divide grows deeper and wider. Rose this was a famous quote of our late senator Daniel Patrick moynihan, he said youre entitled to your own opinion but youre not entitled to your own facts. But we all come equipped with your own facts. Rose contrast to someone who says when being questioned on national television, said we have our own facts. We have alternative facts to the story that you are discussing. You know, in the oxford dictionary,. Rose 2015. Post truth word of the year was post truth. Rose let me talk about this administration where you have been in washington tor all those years. You said one thing one time that it was the stain on everything the administration would that it touched. Have you seen politics like this ever before. No, no, i havent. Rose how is it different . Well, its just totally different. I mean i this is i mean this is truth. I said on television so many times this year or last year, ive never seen anything like this. It became a drinking game among the young people at cbs news. Every time old bob said ive never seen anything, down the hatch. Thank god they had designated drivers. I mean but no, charlie, i havent. And i dont know anybody who has. I mean this was the most unusual election in the most unusual year that i think i ever saw. I mean there are so many things that you just say, did that really happen . My favorite moment in 2016 was when the speaker at that time john boehner called ted cruz lose fer in the flesh lucifer in the flesh and the devil worshiper society put out a press release and denied it. laughter they did. You can look it up. Rose all right. Thats how unusual it was. Rose you were surprised that he won, donald trump. Yeah, i was not surprised that he got the nomination. I kind of thought early on that he was going to get the nomination. Rose he was way ahead in the polls for the nomination. I was up at harvard doing a fellowship and i said i think donald trump is going to get the nomination on the republican side. And boy you think there wasnt a lot of coughing and eye rolling and things like that, people couldnt believe i had come to that conclusion. But he he figured out early on, he crafted a message. And he knew there were people out there especially across the rust belt that felt like they just were not getting a fair deal. And the government wasnt doing anything. And i think they they just decided, its not going well. We need a change and ill just take a flyer on him. Now they might tell you in different words the reason they voted for him. But i think thats a big part of it. He also ran a new kind of campaign. I mean i think one of the things that hurt Hillary Clinton was she ran a very oldfashioned kind of cam pin campaign. And by that i mean controlled the narrative, never put your candidate in a position where she might be asked a question she doesnt know the answer to. Control the narrative. And so she didnt appear on very Many Television programs. She was hardly ever on the sunday shows ruz trump was way more accessible. Trump figured out early on if you call up a certain number of television programs, you are going to get on some of them. And if you Say Something outlandish you will get invited to be on some more of them. And he just overwhelmed her with exposure. In this sense, we took a lot of criticism by saying you know, we gave him too much time and we didnt push back. We did push back. But he was getting on television so much that you would push back on this, and he is out there talking about something else. So i think a lot of this campaign and the reason she lost and he won came down to tactics. There is a there is a political consultant nameded Lynton Crosby from australia. And he worked in some of David Camerons campaigns in great britain. And he said one time, he had what he called the dead cat theory of politics. And the way that ran was say youre having a dinner party. And no matter what you are talking about, if somebody throws the dead cat on the table, youre going to Start Talking about the dead cat. Well, over and overdone ald trump would throw a dead cat on the table. I mean he would start the day, you know, saying something and if there was something that had happened yesterday, he would Say Something that had no relation to it whatsoever. And before you know it, for the rest of the day, the other candidates both republicans and democrats were responding to what he to what he said. And he was not a traditional politician in any sense of the word. But he did have some understanding of television. Rose some people asked the question and you bring this up in this book, how did the country nominate two of the least popular politicians. Well, i think. Rose for the parties. I think there is a reason for that. And part of it has to do with this revolution in technology that has changed the way we campaign and all of that. But i think our lech trorral system, the way we select and elect our candidates is not completely broken down but it is in worse shape than the roads and bridges in this country. And for a variety of reasons. Number one, the system has completely and totally been overwhelmed by money. Redistricting, jerrymandering of districts has also had a lot to do with it. But the bottomline is we have made running for office in this country so onerous, so awful, that our best and brightest people are simply turning away in it. And they want nothing to do with it. You know, i had a young woman who worked for me for awhile. And she started dating a congressman who was a very nice young man. And she went home to tell her dad and it was like she had come home and said ive just decided to start going out with this bank robber. I mean he didnt care if he was a democrat or a republican. He was a politician. And he just couldnt imagine, you know. And it went through awhile there of where she, she stopped dating the guy. She wasnt that certificate quus about him in the firs place. But she got no encouragement for her, you know, from her parents for that. You know, charlie, and this is true, when i was a little boy my grandmother thought that i was going to be president of the United States when i grew up because thats what every grand mother thought about their grandson. Rose my grandmother thought i was going to be a bank robber. But let me ask you this. My grandmother and all those grandmas thought their grandsons were going to grow up to be president , but how many people have you talked to lately who say i sure hope my kid grows up to be a politician. You can count them on your nose because its just people are just they want nothing to do with it. We have got to find some way to convince our best and brightest and our good people that Public Service is something that is honorable and is needed and is what has made this country what it is today. Because too many people just simply want nothing to do with it. And i think thats that hassing is to do with how do you wind up with two candidates. And charlies right. A majority of voters neither like nor trust it. Rose lets make an assessment in terms of how President Trump is doing in government, in governing. Has he turned from politician, i mean has he turned from campaigning to transition to the responsibility of government . Is legislative goals are still yet to be realized. Obamacare repeal and replace didnt happen. Tax reform has been announced, well see what happens. Immigration, hes had travel bans that have been challenged in the court. We dont know exactly what is going to happen to that. He says he will build a wall. On National Security, he talks about america first, there is some pushback from that. We dont know whether hes going to withdraw from the iran deal. He said that he has made up his mind and wont say what hes going to do. He faces, you are smiling meaning you know what he is going to do. No. Rose yeah, i dont either. So how is he doing . Well, i think if you would be a conservative you would say he selected an honorable and certainly a well qualified person to be on the supreme court. Rose just is gorsuch. And i think you have to give him credit for that. But i dont see much else happening here. And the government seems without direction at this point to me. It seems more in chaos than in getting things done or in governing. Rose there is as Much Division between republicans as is between republicans and democrats. Well, you know, when people used to ask me, i covered congress for 15 years and it was always my favorite beat. I covered the white house for nearly six years. And that was fun too but people used to say why do you like covering the congress better. And i sawls said you know, because when you cover the white house, everybody at the white house works for the same person. When you are up there on capitol hill theyre all independent contractors. And thats where you find news. And so to me that was a dream job. But you know, that no longer is apt because there is many factions now inside the white house as there are up on capitol hill. I mean, i mean i talked to these reporters up there, and i will say well, now, if you want to talk to the kushners who do you talk to. And they said well, i go, they have their own spokesmano in bannon, bannon used to handle his own press but everybody just went directly to him. If you want to talk to gary cohen and those folks, you go to somebody else. Its ive never witnessed a white house quite like this one. And you know, where its so much of it is not about policy, its just unfamiliarity with process. Rose or unfamiliarity with governing. And they, you know, you just need somebody that could kind of say you know, the mens room is down this hall and the ladies room is over here. And the cafeteria is back over there. I mean it just helps to have somebody like that. But i mean, i see, you know, i mean this is not important, and i stress this but its just kind of an example of the disorganization. You will see press releases with misspelled words. And the names of people and their possessions misstated. And you just wonder, i mean, how do they get through the day. They appointed they appointed a four star general john kelly to bring order and then the tweets continued. I mean he might have brought order to the staff. I think he has brought some order. Rose to the president . Well, not necessarily order but i mean he has kind of become kind of a gatekeeper for the oval office. Rose who gets in. Without gets in. I mean im told that people just were wondering in and out. I have had people tell me they were over there on business and four or five people will walk in, you know. And wake up to the president , whisper something. I mean its just unlike anything that any of us are familiar with. Rose how how much of a threat is the Russian Investigation . To the president . You know, i dob know whether the president has done anything wrong in connection with the russians. But every action that he takes is the action of someone who appears to have something to hide. Now whatever it is, i done know and maybe ive totally misread that. But why, why is he so reluctant to discuss that. Why is he so fearful to have people talk about it . I mean it all tboas back. Rose to even acknowledge that the hacking took place. It goes back to the income tax, you know. If people were accusing him of doing something in conjunction with the russians, i would guess that if he released his income tax and he werent, it would be reflected. applause and. Rose and dont you assume that Robert Mueller has the power to lok at his income tax . Yes. Rose so he knows. Well, he may already know. We dont know that. But i would think that he would have the authority to do that. Rose i wont put this right on you. But is there consensus in washington that he will likely survive and will be a viable candidate for reelection in 2020 . Charlie, it is a question i would ask you if i were doing this interview. laughter but i have no earthly idea. I mean you know, i glen that rush has become one of my thrush one of pie favorite reporters along with maggie laborerman. They came up through the new york tabs, they are vest used to donald trump, they both know him. And like when he held his first News Conference and everybody was just aghast at the way it went, glenn told me he said oh, maggie and i, it was just another geulianee or another ed koch News Conference at city hall. Thats just what were used to. So it didnt upset us or anything. But i asked thrush, the are the had done something and he said what is that pre por tend for the future it was after he had made his little deal with chuck and nancy, his new favs. I said what does this mean for the future. What can we read into that. And glen said nothing, he said you know, were all used to the 24 7 news cycle. He said trumps news cycle is in 15 minute segments. And he said what he does in this 15 minute segment has nothing to do with what he might do in the next 15 minute segment. And certainly nothing to do with what happened in the previous 15 minute segment. Rose and they say hes consumed by television. Yes. Rose hes constantly watching, keeping an eye on what is being said. And its been a great thrill for me to have bob schieffer. Thank you. Rose hari vee vee is here a vane veen is over the past two weeks newshour teams have been werenting an ambitious 11 part series exploring the nations Opioid Crisis, in a year of big stories this has become one of the biggest. In august President Trump declared the crisis a national emergency. On the newshour fray night sreenivasan will be reporting a story from mexico, in it he explores the many ways that state is trying to curtail both supply and demand. Heres a look. It just blocks the pain is what it does, you know, numbs it. Back in rio reba county stories like this exemploy why the national observe yoid epidemic has been so hard to beat back. In recent years, she turned to pills and cocaine to help her block pain. The physical pain from a fall she says and the anxiety of every day life. For long stretches of time, she fights for sobriety but they are always interruptedded by moments like this. I relapsed this weekend. Everybody showed up, the pain is so bad that i cant, so you know, i will selfmedicate with drugs, you know. Addiction continues to rage in this county despite the small band of Health Providers and their many efforts. Despite aggressive Law Enforcement action and the countys recent drop in death rates. Dr. Lesley hayes says treatment can work wonders for individual patients but this county is still filled with poverty, unemployment and trauma. Pain in search of a pain killer. Ive heard Law Enforcement say were not going to arrest our way out of this problem. The same is true for medicine. Were not going to treat our way out of this problem. We want to stop it earlier, you know, stop it by not prescribing inappropriately and by getting other things in their life that are meaningful. Rose im pleetioned to have Hari Sreenivasan back at this table, welcome. Lets do a primer on this. Okay. Rose what are we talking about . What is the Opioid Crisis . 40,000 people a year die in car wrecks. Last year the estimate is 5 3,000 americans died of opioid overdoses. I mean these are numbers that are staggering for any country. But this has been happening for the past several years. The numbers have been increasing. And they might even go higher this year and the next before it gets any better. Rose when you say overdose, overdose from what . Opioids, weather, first of all a lot of people started with prescription pain killers, right. So they had severe back problems. They had injuries from car accidents. Very legitimate sources of pain. And the prescriptions for pain killers was so high in the late 90s. Rose and addictive. Yes, and addictive. And a lot of those people couldnt stop themselves from being addicted. Then as the supply of pills started to shrink, as people started to realize how many pills were talking about, as those pills disappeared, a lot of these people started turning to heroin, i mean litly in mexico, huntington, West Virginia, another piece that i did, different cities around the country are facing an absolute epidemic of proportions that nobody in the Public Health sector, nobody in the criminal Justice System has ever seen before. And theyre are entire towns and economies that are stunted by this. Rose its everywhere. Absolutely. Rose not urban, not rural. No. Rose not any particular geography. No, 82 of the victims in this are white according to the cdc. This is a problem that is hitting all across america. Its certainly hitting places that are blue collar towns like huntington where it used to be coal country, it used to be back breaking work. Those are the people that got on those pills in the mid 9d 0see, that are now a diked and shifting. Rose your numbers, roughly 780 million doses of oxycodone and hydro codoan have been shipped into West Virginia over a six year period, that is more than 400 doses per resident. There is a tiny town called ker mit, these are numbers that Eric Erickson had come up for his Pulitzer Prize winning series, this tiny town, pop lake 392, over a two year period, one pharmacy gets 9 million pills delivered to it. I mean. Rose 9 million . Right . So when you think about that, that is why there is a significant concern among so many of these people that this is primarily a problem of overprescription that started all of this. You got these people hooked and now when those pills started going away they turn somewhere else. Rose so it has our attention with this kind of tragedy. What are we doing about it . There are all different types of threement. We profiled those for the past couple of weeks, there is a treatment in rhode island where people who are recovering from this scourge are actually the ones on the front lines. They are talking to people in a way that, and they can empathize in a way with someone who has a Substance Abuse disorder right now in a way you or i cant. They can say literally i have been in this exact emergency room bed where you are, that is one thing, miles obrien had a piece about Virtual Reality and how Virtual Reality is starting to be used in the universe of washington to try to treat pain, acute pain, say somebody in a burn unit, and the kind of pain that theyre experiencing when they have to have their dressing change, it decreases if they are sitting here trying to play a video game and getting their mind off something. There is hypnosis, theres therapy, theres medication, all kinds, we are literally throwing the kitchen sink at trying to figure out how to bring this down. Rose this is something that the government has to get involve in because of the scale. Look, officially we have a commission, we declared an emergency for the past three months. But this is on a scale that really, i mean were talking bigger than the crisis in puerto rico. Were talking bigger than the crisis we faced with these storms. This is a National Problem that Needs National solutions. There will be great local solutions but you need to figure out what, withouts and figure out how to deploy it for the rest of the country. Rose what did you find in new mexico. What is interesting about them is that the health services, the community there saw this problem ten years ago. At that point they figured it was already running for ten years. So because they had that head start, they also were able to get the best practices out at work and see how they could stop this. So now even in new mexico which has harm reduction, meaning Needle Exchange programs, it tries to talk to its inmates as soon as they are getting out because that is really one of the times when are you likely to overdose the most when you have been cold turkey for a few weeks. They talk to kids at 7th grade, they do everything possible. But theyre also at an intersection, literally a cross roads where the drugs come in through el paso, into the United States, and it is almost like a walmart redistribution of the drugs. It start there in albuquerque and makes its way across the country. Rose when pbs takes a project like this, and newshour especially, how do you make sure you dont come down and spend two weeks of broadcast focusing on the problem, and you move on to other kinds of countries is. Yeah, i mean this is. Rose how do you keep an everpresent eyewitnesses this is a slow burn. Part of it is we have been doing some of these stories about babies that have been addictedded to these opioids as they were born, a year and a half ago, two years ago, we talked on the weekend program, weve had multiple stories about the Opioid Crisis and i will suspect we will continue to do this over and over again. This was just a specific way for us to organize it. We dont exement everyone to watch every broadcast all week long. But any time in these two weeks if you tuned in, you will be able to say okay, this is part of something larger. Let me go on the websites, and will you see the whole thing. Rose thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. Rose great to have you here, i should say the pbs series on the newshour airs on friday night, on the newshour and the full series can be found on newshours page at pbs. Org. Go to pbs. Org and look for newshour. Back in a moment, stay with us. Mac demarco certificate hoo, the New York Times crowned the canadian singer songwriter the prince of indy rock. His laid back personality mixed with his sin tro spective lyric have garnered praise from critics and a legion of fans many of whom visited demarco at his foam for coffee. The new album finds the 27 year old demarco confronting the topic of growing old and irowing up. It is called this old dog. Here is mac demarco performing the title track, this old dog right here in our studio. Sometimes my love may be put on hold. Sometimes my heart may seem awful cold. These times come, these times go. As long as i live all you need to know is. This old dog aint about to forget. All hes had and all thats next. Long in my heart, beating in my chest. This old dog aint about to forget. Often a heart tends to change its mind. New day inside, on a new design. New day gets set on another way. Long as i live auliffes got is today. This old dog aint about to forget. All weve had. And all thats next. Long in my heart beating in my chest. This old dog aint about to forget. Rose im pleased to have mac deparko at this table for the first time. So my question is how do you get to be the prince of indie rock. I dont really know what they mean. I dont know. People, ive heard it a couple of times over the last. Rose they say it. You know, as long as people cared, pfeiffer, six years, Something Like that now. I dont know. I im more curious the transition out of being the prince. Rose most singer songwriters really at the core are more songwriters than ue. Se do you think thats well, i mean, im not really much of a singer, i dont think im much of a songwriter either, maybe im more of a conartist, you know, but i think its funny to get labeled Something Like that, because that is like a very, you know, it holds some kind of weight. Its like singer songwriter or even being called an artist i still feel weird about that. Because in reality to me its just like i was 18 making songs in my garage. And you know, turns out after a bit of time some people listen to them and its cool. But it is just, you know, its weird to grapple with that like that kind of label, i guess. But i dont know. I like writing songs if other people like them thats really great. Rose do they come to you. Sometimes, i guess. That is the beautiful thing about it is you never really know when it is going to work, why it is going to work, where it is going to, without. Something like that,or you know even if it works a the all. Rose but how off doan you get up in the morning and you say i need to write a song. And you think about it, and you sort of begin to. For me, yeah, i dont know. Rose trial and error. That is like, you know, Paul Mccartney gets at the able, oakey doaky here is one of the greatest songs ever written. For me i think its more of, you know, i kind of think of its alike okay, i have a chunk of time and i want to correct this collection of things that hopefully fit together in some way. And record, the recording process because i do everything at home alone, its kind of like that is a part of it as well. And hopefully at some period in there i can you know, hit a streak of writing new songs and they work out. And it doesnt work sometimes. And it becomes very frustrating. Rose are you conscience of developing a stage persona . I think, i mean, i think in a way, maybe, i think i was just trying to be Jonathan Richmond for a lot of years because i think he does the greatest shows that, you know, one of the greatest shows you can go. Rose what was so great about. I think his whole vibe is, for a long time hes being been doing it for years an years an years since the modern lovers. You about i dont know, its this like, its like a friendly invitation, hes not trying to be too cool. Hes not trying to be too, its very, its engaging. He wants to make sure everybodys comfortable. Hes playing his songs, very stripped down, you feel like youre in it am feels special, so its kind of like, i done know. Rose so what about people like ed sheeran who plays before huge audiences. Well, i dont know, ed seems like a fies guy, i have never seen him play. But i dont know, the big audience thing is pretty weird. Were not exactly in a position to play is he probably playing in front of millions of people. Rose big stadiums. Yeah, exactly, i mean, i could see that being very, maybe like alienating, maybe. But i dont know. I think, i take steps to try and you know, as the venues get bigger i prefer to do say a couple of shows at a smaller place rather than just trying to do the biggest one every time. But that being said, its still like, the numbers that were doing as far as crowds go is like peanuts compared to mr. Ed. But. Rose its bigger than it was before. It is always going, and its great. But i think it is like, i always say this, its kind of like there is the crowd. And then there is up on the stage. And i dont, its not an art gallery. Its like were all in the same room together. Rose what is the real definition of indie rock. Im on an independent label, that has part of something to do with it. I guess i do it at my house on my own. I think it is just what is em sooingly not, you know, got all the bells and whistles and the marionette strings of a huge, giant, major label production r Something Like that. I think especially now adays with the internet and the way things go, a lot of those lines are kind of blurred a little bit. So i dont really know. I think, i think a lot of the time now adays people kind of would just say that, you know, a lot of people go indie rock, kind of guitary music, maybe. Its almost like its become a musical genre rather than like an idea of how the music is brought out to the public, you know what i mean . Rose did you invite people to come to your home. Yeah, in fall rockaway new york, down the belt. Rose and did they show up . Yeah, i had yeah, a lot of kids come, a couple thousand kids, probably, or people i shouldnt say kids am a lot of kids, people, older, younger. Rose did you jaws say come on in or. I put it out there. It was on the record t is the last track of the record, the address, come over, have a coup of coffee if you want. I hadnt lived in rockaway very long, i lived there in the winter, one of the last stops in d you realize when the sunoutht comes out in the summer time, it becomes this beachtown and everybody is going out every day. So yeah, i was in a bit of trouble. It was great. It is nothing that i regret doing or anything like that. But it is kind of crazy, you know, to have like no real kind of privacy or anything am but i met a lot of really cool people. It was a beautiful thing. Rose lets talk about this. This old dog. There we are. Rose look at this my old man, is that a tribute to your father. Yeah, it is a bit of a there are a couple of songs on here that are kind of about that, saying this album came out. My dad got pretty sick earlier this year. Which is, i guess not really anybodys big but now ive made it everybodys. Rose how did he feel about it, good. I havent talked to him about it yet, im stilling waiting to hear on that one. I thought this would kind of be like ciao, i have an almost nonexistent relationship with the guy, not trying to cruise fie, not trying to, you know, get him back for anything. Just trying to understand what that relationship perhaps is supposed to mean, you know. Rose youre not that close right now. Oh, never really were. Just trying to figure it out. Rose this old dog, title. Yeah, one of the tracks on there. I guess im the dog. Rose it is the lead track. This old dog. Yeah. Its i dont know. Rose did you start with an idea, did you start with a lyric, did you start with a. For that song . Rose yeah. Yeah, i dont know, i think i have kind of wanted to write something about an old dog for a couple of albums now. I dont know why. Maybe just a metaphor or symbol that i think is, you know, just a droopy old bas et hound. Rose skip a couple. Sister. Just a little shoutout to my sis, have i a half sister lives in the mountain in british columbia. Just letting her know i am thinking of her. Rose what about one another. One another is kind of just a carefully little love, love hi another album called another one. So one another. Not like you never tried. To forget her. These days. One another. Rose dreams from yesterday . That say little bit of a kind of like a basa nova groove on that one. A lot of the songs that i write i feel are kind of, its almost like talking to myself in a way. Its like, that song is kind of like oh, now people are listening to music. What are you going to do now, its like snap out of it. Rose one more love song. That is yus just another sad love song. Rose moonlight on the river s that sad . That was about the papacita again, the daddy. Rose about your dad. Yeah, i like that one. Rose you have something to work out here, dont you. Maybe, maybe, i dont know. I think this is what working it out was, here if is, you are holding it. Rose and then watching fade away as i said. Thats about him also. Rose a wolf who wears sheeps clothes. A little autobiography. Rose that is you too. A little bit. Rose are you the wolf in sheeps clothes. Sometimes. Rose its great to you have here. Its been really cool. Rose and you did a number for us in our fabulous studio, and what better from here to radio city. Yeah. New york, new york. Rose new york, new york. Meant to be. Time may pass it may go fast, well still be to get there. Where i go shes at my side. Above my life to get there. Love. And up above to get. Yes sir. To me. Yes sir. Ive had my share. Sweetheart. If its fine that ive done my time. Her and i will walk the line together. When shetions low ill always know. Always go together. See the love fits like a glove. From up above. To give. Yes sir. To give. Yes sir. To give. There we go. Fin ito. For more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at 3rbgs bs. Org and charlie rose. Com. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following bank of america, life better connected captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Youre watching pbs. Pati smoky. Smooth. Rustic. Mezcal. One of mexicos oldest most celebrated elixirs. Out here in the dusty, rolling countryside of oaxaca this is mezcal country, where small batch family owned productions seem to be stuck in another time. Pati continues this is a world i need to experience. So we have the worm salt. Mmm, so smoky. Pati narrates and because mezcal is even better shared, im inviting a few friends over for a refreshing oaxaca sour. And an overflowing plate of grilled steak salpicon. Its so delicious. Oh, salud [in unison] salud pati laughs