Transcripts For KQED Washington Week 20171007

Together to pass a bill, to make it illegal to sell those. Will the worst mass shooting in history change the stalled debate . Plus, President Trump stands by his secretary of state, following reports of tensions and namecalling. Total confidence in rex. I have total confidence. And he prepares to abandon the Iran Nuclear Deal. We cover it all, with eli stokols of the wall street journal, Kimberly Atkins of the boston herald, erica werner of the associated press, and reid wilson of the hill. Celebrating 50 years, this is Washington Week. Funding is provided by. [music] their leadership is instinctive. They understand the challenges of today and research the technologies of tomorrow. Some call them veterans. We call them part of our team. Additional funding is provided by newmans own foundation. Donating all profits from newmans own products to charity and nourishing the common good. The ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. The yuen foundation. Committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. The corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you once again, live from washington, moderator robert costa. Good evening. The rampage in las vegas that killed 58 people and injured hundreds more has reignited the National Debate about firearm regulations. But the question remains, will that debate translate to Political Action . So far, the conversation in washington has been charged with emotion. And it has sparked discussion of law and culture, safety and personal responsibility, but that next step, just how far the response should go, is still not clear. Whats the difference this time . Well, the n. R. A. Is open to more restrictions on bump stocks. Thats the device the las vegas sniper used to make his semiautomatic weapons function like an automatic weapon. But even on that issue, there is debate over whether the Republicancontrolled Congress should legislate changes or if any new restriction should be made by federal regulators. A number of top republicans, including Steve Scalise of louisiana, whose life was nearly taken by a gunman at a baseball field in june, are calling for a review of bump stocks at the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives scalise says anything else done on capitol hill would likely be a slippery slope that threatens americans Second Amendment right to bear arms. Here are some numbers to consider. The Las Vegas Shooting was the 273rd mass shooting of 2017. Thats according to the nonprofit group, gun violence archive. Defined as when four or more people were shot and or killed in a single incident. Another number. A recent university of washington study reported that the u. S. Has more gun violence than most other prosperous countries. And a third, investigators say 12 of the 23 rifles recovered from the las vegas gunman were retrofitted with bump stocks. Erica, thats where the debate stands. Thats where we stand, post that horribleness in las vegas. What about in capitol hill . Are we going to see legislation to get rid of his bump stocks, or are we just going to see a tweak to federal regulations . Well, it remains to be seen and its probably too early to say. But based on how the debate is starting to turn, its looking like its going in the direction of a regulatory change, at least that that would be the preference of republicans, who, of course, would be in position to bring up legislation. I mean, as you know, the n. R. A. And Congressional Republicans have been totally allergic in recent years to any type of gun controls. So the fact that they even are willing to take a step on anything is significant, yet these devices are very little used, confined to kind of a narrow group of enthusiasts. So anything thats done on them is not going to be terribly significant. President trump is the wild card, eli, in all of this. He has been so far. I mean, hes been much more decisive and emphatic and quick to react in other situations than he was about this. You suddenly have a white house saying we need to hold back and gather all the facts. There have been no tweets from the president saying, well, this is obviously a problem. We need to do this. We need to get tough, as weve seen him do after terror attacks that have been carried out by islamic terrorists overseas and in u. S. Its obviously not in his whitee to make a big issue of gun control. I think the difference here, where you see n. R. A. Open to this regulatory change on bump stocks, is because republicans own it in washington. You have a republican president and a Republican Congress that will probably be they need to look like theyre responding in a way. This will give them the semblance of taking some sort of action in response to a horrific event without going further. When democrats were in charge, when boban wa when barack oba was president this is a political imperative to allow them like theyre at least respond. Theres two different things. Theres the appearance that congress is doing something in the wake of this and theres a policy point, doing something that will actually make a difference. This is no disagreement, as you pointed out, that this is applying to a very small thing that most of us probably had never heard of a bump stock before last week. Thats going to do little the n. R. A. Isnt losing much skin in this game by backing this. But at the same time, its not really addressing any of the issues that lead to the fact that we have so much gun violence in this country. Youre talking about some of the numbers, up to 50 of the worlds guns is possessed in the United States, civilianowned guns in the United States. We have 5 of the worlds population. Regulation or a bill banning bump stocks isnt gonna do much to change that. This is the n. R. A. s way, though, to control the debate. And they have an ally in President Trump. He may not be as beholden to almost any other industry. When the big republican groups were abandoning President Trump, candidate trump, in droves in the late parts of the Campaign Last year, the n. R. A. Was in all of these swing states, running advertisements on his behalf. There is no single Interest Group in america that has been more solidly behind President Trump. But reid, you cover state legislators for the hill. You know this is more about the n. R. A. More than just about the n. R. A. s position. Theres a culture in many parts of the country, theres also republican governors who dont want to see any kind of restrictions on guns. And that influences debates as much as anything. As a matter of fact, in the wake of the most recent of these horrible attacks, whether it was sandy hook or last year in the pulse nightclub in orlando, florida, weve actually seen state legislatures take actions that remove gun restrictions, that allow people to carry openly, to carry concealed weapons without a permit. Thats a constitutional carry. Thats come up in a number of states. Stand your ground laws have advanced in states like iowa where republicans now control all levels of government. Even as the debate sort of stagnates in this sort of rhythm weve gotten into, where we talk about guns for a little bit, then it sort of falls by the wayside, action is taking place outside the beltway and not in favor of those who back gun control. Dont forget, after the Movie Theater shooting, they passed a tighter background check law. They passed a law banning highcapacity lawmakers and three democratic lawmakers were recalled for it. If thats a test case obviously thats a they did respond. Erica, part of the challenge maybe for democrats on capitol hill is that the legislation proposed, bipartisan background check bill, that failed a few years ago, now there are Many Democrats to say that didnt go far enough, Gun Control Groups say that didnt go far enough. Theres pressure from the left to do even more than some kind of bipartisan bill thats been here in the past. Well, sure. If it were up to senator feinstein and others, she would renew her assault weapons ban that expired in 2004, after having been in effect for 10 years. In fact, interestingly, she said this week that she had been planning to do that, considering doing that, but that senator schumer asked her to pull back and do a narrower bill just on bump stocks. Well, now it looks like were not even gonna get that. Were gonna get a regulation. Feinstein is saying that wouldnt go far enough. But that, again, will allow republicans to claim a victory. What about steve bannon, the former white house chief strategist . He says the base on the republican side will erupt if they do any kind of gun control legislation. I think hes right. I think the n. R. A. And other Interest Groups that back gun manufacturers have done a great job in crafting any sort of gun control measure as a warning sign that the government is trying to take away guns from lawful gun owners, and lawful gun owners dont want that. I dont think that nancy pelosi did the left any favors when she said she wants a slippery slope this week, that she hopes that anything thats done does result in a slippery slope to more legislation. I think that plays right into the messaging of the n. R. A. And i think in the end that thats i mean, its one of the most powerful lobbies that exists in washington and state houses. And this gets to a larger point that the gun debate has become as polarized as just about any other debate there is. 20 years ago, there were a number of democrats who were members of the not just members of the n. R. A. But members of the board of the n. R. A. , former congressman john dingle is one of the reasons that the n. R. A. Became such a big political powerhouse. He encouraged them to do so. Now there is one party that is almost homogenously in favor of gun control, the democratic party. And one side that is completely homogenously against gun control, that even then there were cracks in the republican field maybe 25 years ago, before the assault weapons ban really cauterized that polarization. And similarly, the n. R. A. Itself used to be much more reasonable, one might say, on these issues, supporting background checks. One thing thats happened is that the n. R. A. Board has become taken over by industry to a large degree. And i think thats also why youve seen them be able to move on this issue of bump stocks, because bump stocks are not an area of Large Revenue production at all for the n. R. A. , so its a relatively easy one for them. Well, i think these keep happening and they keep getting worse. There was a lot made that this is the worse mass shooting in u. S. History again this week. I think that will move the debate a little bit. This is the first time were having this debate in the trump era, with this presidency, at a time when so many in this country, who used to tune out to politics, cant avoid it. Theyre paying attention to whats happening here in washington. I think more than they did in past administrations, in part because it just feels so tumult tumultuous and unusual. I think that is bringing new voices and new people into these debates. Yet where is the legislation . It seems like its not prompting a huge legislative push or even an evident from the white house. It seems to just kind of inch forward. And i think with republicans Controlling Congress and donald trump in the white house, youre not going to see a big legislative push. And i think the remarks from congressman scalise of all people, was really remarkable, somebody shot by a gunman, saying it only sealed his resolve the ensure gun rights and that people need these guns to protect themselves. Of course, that wouldnt have happened in this case of las vegas, even if everyone in that crowd was armed. That wouldnt have stopped this gunman. It just shows how remarkably strong the republican position is on this. Well have to watch, erica, what comes down the pike here, because representative in florida, hes working on legislation to ban bump stocks, even if there is a regulatory change. He wants to see it legislated. You have congressman pete king of new york and democrats working on a background check bill in the house. So there are dplimmers of action glimmers of action. There are. But at the same time, when you listen to the comments from Key Committee chairman grassley and goodelet in the house, its kind of along the lines of yes, well look at this, but lets wait until the investigation finishes. Then well hold hearings. Thats where things go to kind of peter out. So i dont see anything dramatic happening anytime soon. And the scalise moment was a telling one this week on capitol hill. Someone who was shot, someone in the Republican Leadership saying that the whole experience of being shot, his words, fortified his support for gun rights. And this is where the republican is these days. There are calls in the wake of a shooting like this to not talk about the politics right now. And thats sort of a code word for lets wait until this all dies down. Then we can let the debate die down. Thats whats happened again and again. Scalise was welcomed back as a hero, given a standing oa violation, bipartisan welcome standing ovation. Then again, he is still the number three republican in the house of representatives and its not going to change the caucuss view. Well keep a close eye on everything, as it moves forward, whether its a bill or some kind of a. T. F. Change to federal law and regulations. But meanwhile, beyond the gun debate, the Trump Administration is also confronting a number of urgent Foreign Policy matters, including iran and north korea. President trump is planning to abandon the Iran Nuclear Deal despite the fact that some of his top advisors, including secretary of state Rex Tillerson, and defense secretary james mattis, support the agreement. Mattis testified before the Senate Arms Services committee on tuesday. And when the senator asked him about the iran deal, heres what he had to say. Do you believe its in our National Security interests at the present time to remain in the jcpoa . Yes, senator, i do. Two days later, mattis was sitting next to the president during a white house briefing. Heres what mr. Trump had to say. The Iranian Regime supports terrorism and exports violence, bloodshed and chaos across the middle east. That is why we must put an end to irans continued aggression and nuclear ambitions. They have not lived up to the spirit of their agreement. This is a deal for President Trump. A deal hes trying to change. He wrote the art of the deal. This is part of his d. N. A. , his own selfconception, that he thinks that all the deals that his pre predecessor made are terrible, theyre weak, the u. S. Gave too much away. He threw out the Paris Agreement for the same reason. Hes taking a lot of obamas domestic accomplishments. So this is not an isolated instance. This is just one that has huge geopolitical ramifications. And the president is making Foreign Policy much the same way he makes domestic policy, based on this loathing for multilateralism and also a continued need to erase any trace of accomplishment from the obama administration. And yes, there are adults in the room, the people who are supposedly the adults, the people bob corker says are separating the country from chaos. But this is a president who, as you know, when people sort of try to box him in and say you cant do this, what does he do . Hes more resolved to do it. Thats a very good point. This is the consummate what weve learned about this president is that if the establishment, if other nations tell him that this is the way that things work in the system, hes gonna try to blow up that system. This is a key example of it. It doesnt trumps actions will not entirely end the u. S. Involvement in the deal. It will kick some action to congress. Theyll have 60 days to decide whether or not to roll back the or snap back the sanctions into place. And that puts that gives him a little bit of wiggle room. But a little bit of wiggle room on the International Stage is not great for somebody who, in his first nine months in office, has not completed a major deal. Lets say it goes to capitol hill. The Republican Leadership, theyre mostly hawks. How do they handle that . For one thing, they really would prefer not to. And this is not the first time where trump is throwing Congress Something that they dont really want on their plate, while they have a lot of other stuff on their plate. And his tendency is then to blame them for whatever transpires. But its kind of a tough spot for republicans in that they were ferociously, unanimously opposed to this deal when barack obama was passing it two years ago. That said, there does not seem to be an appetite to snap back those sanctions. What tom cotton wants to do, and others will take their cues from him, is to try to find some way to renegotiate the terms of the deal as kind of farfetched as that might seem. Sounds like eli, when he mentioned the paris accords. Well, the president had lunch with tom cotton at the white house. And im told from somebody familiar with this conversation, that he asked for the speech. When we hear the president come out with his case, hes likely to lay out the same argument that cotton said. Lets take the 60 days, see if it gives us leverage to negotiate something better. I just dont know in the iranians are in the mood to negotiate. And that was originally the point of the original deal. It wasnt to end nobody thought it would end Irans Nuclear program. It bought some time essentially to try to see if you can use some diplomatic measures to go forward. Thats what the deal itself was meant to do. But the president , as you said, hes so determined to get rid of it. But, again, giving himself some buffer room, kicking it to congress to make that decision. It reminds me, after obama and the red line was drawn, he subsequently kicked that decision to congress and ultimately nothing happened. And there are costs to if the u. S. Gets out of a deal. Last month, iranian president rouhani said there would be a high cost. You have north korea watching closely. Will the u. S. Keep its words on a Nuclear Agreement . And you have our allies that are part of this deal. You know, what are we saying to the world as we pull out of these International Agreements . What if something happens on north korea . We need help from these same players. So it sets a precedent and its one that could have serious consequences for our country. Reid, were also watching secretary of state tillerson twist in the wind. What a week for him, as hes really the whole town, the whole city is talking about possible resignation or at least a secretary of state thats on the ropes. How much time does he have left . Has this relationship totally eroded . Were all sitting here checking our twitter feeds to make sure he hasnt resigned yet. That seems to be the president s way, on friday nights, that he likes to fire people. Secretary tillerson reported this week, apparently called President Trump a name in a meeting. That did not go terribly well. And this relationship, from everything that i have heard, is its been on the rocks for a very long time. Secretary tillerson has had a difficult time transitioning into this role. The white house has been angry with the state department and their slow pace of actually filling the jobs that are sort of necessary to set a president s Foreign Policy. And then he has struggled as well to demonstrate that he really represents the word of the president of the United States of america, and that is the single most important thing for a secretary of state to do. Now, as this relationship degrades, his standing on the world stage becomes even weaker and its become sort of a selffulfilling spiral towards the bottom that, you know, his end could come any moment. Take us inside the white house, eli. Is he on his way out . We talked to people today who said, no, we think he has time. Nobody ever really knows. This is a president who consumes so much television. For 48 hours now, what has he probably been hearing back to him . Television personalities saying Rex Tillerson did not deny calling President Trump a moron. Well, that is thats making trump cede yes, he already has two vacant cabinet positions. They would probably like to not have this blow up in their face now. But can tram trump live with it . Thats really, at the end of the day, the only thing that matters. Theyre floating replacements already. The c. I. A. Director, u. N. Ambassador nikki haley. These names are everywhere. And that has got to make secretary tillersons job even more difficult. Its no fun working at the state department right now from the top on down. But then think about that. Yes, we already have two vacancies. If you use either pompeo or haley in this position, who becomes the next c. I. A. Director, the next u. N. Ambassador . You have confirmation fights. Meanwhile, north korea is still a threat. Meanwhile, we still have to deal with what the decision is going to be on this nuclear authorization of the iran deal. Its a tough time right now. And its tough to recruit people to this administration. And erica, just to close this out, this whole experience, watching the secretary of state this week, its indicative of how you dont have a personal rapport with this president , youre probably in trouble . Thats absolutely right. With tillerson as well, as youll recall, back to when he initially got confirmed, he had trouble winning the hill over. And theres not going to be a lot of love lost from the hill either if he goes. He just never made close contacts on the hill, nor in the white house. He was kind of isolated, it seemed, within the state department as well. So it cant be too much longer for him to be sticking around. Is there anyone on your radar, as you were talking to congressmen and senators on capitol hill . Well, nikki haley is someone who has a lot of respect. Pompeo, of course, from the house. Either of those. And do they both have that rapport with the president . They appear to more than tillerson. It could hardly get worse than him. So well see. Well have to leave it there tonight. And well all be on tillerson watch this weekend and i guess for the next few days and weeks. Thanks, everybody, for being here. I appreciate it. Our conversation, as ever, will continue online, on the Washington Week extra. Well talk about the Trump Administrations decision to roll back the mandate that requires employers and Insurance Companies to cover birth control. Find that at pbs. Org newshour. Im robert costa. Have a great weekend [music] funding for Washington Week is provided by. [music] their leadership is instinctive. They understand the challenges of today and research the technologies of tomorrow. Some call them veterans. We call them part of our team. Additional funding is provided by newmans own foundation. Donating all profits from newmans own products to charity and nourishing the common good. The ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. The yuen foundation. Committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. The corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you youre watching pbs. Announcer Corporate Funding for this program is provided by. Ross on behalf of capital one, congrats, jay on your Kennedy Center, mark twain prize for american humor. Youre a master comic and a master mechanic so, after youre big award tonight, would you mind taking a look at my car . cause my check engine lights on. Thanks congrats and enjoy the show. Announcer American Airlines and its regional partners operate 6,700 daily flights to more than 330 destinations in more than 50 countries. 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