Transcripts For KGO This 20240704

Captions paid for by abc, inc. Man in the middle are exclusive abc reporting on what mark meadows told investigators in trumps classified documents case. Everything was declassified as donald trump faces a fourth indictment in georgia. The defendants engaged in a criminal racketeering enterprise to overturn georgias president ial election result facing historic legal peril. Trump plans to skip the first primary debate show up on wednesday night and stop being such a coward. I cant wait to get to that debate stage, and i hope everybody shows up this morning , our exclusive interview with former Vice President mike pence. Legal analysis from Preet Bharara and sarah ingar. Plus our powerhouse roundtable. Painstaking recovery. Its funny you came so fast. I dont know if you got away. 114 dead, hundreds unaccounted for. Mauis wildfire fire now the fifth deadliest in us history. Well be there in maui as long as it takes. Were on the scene this morning and well talk to fema jon Emmanuelle Saliba fema reports on the race to restore trust ahead of the 2024 election. Announcer from abc news, its this week. Here now, jonathan karl. Jonathan good morning and welcome to this week in. Just three days, republican president ial hopefuls will face off on a stage in milwaukee for the first debate of the 2024 campaign. But the man who could be center stage plans to skip it, saying theres no reason for him to be there. Donald trump, though, has plenty to do outside of that debate. He was indicted for a fourth time last week, this time by Fulton County District Attorney fani willis for allegedly heading up a criminal enterprise to overturn the certified and repeatedly verified results of georgias 2020 president ial election. Trumps lawyers are working out the terms of his surrender with willis. Its expected to come some time before the friday deadline set by the d. A. One of the key figures in the georgia indictment is the man who was so frequently by trumps side during those tumultuous final weeks of his presidency. Chief of staff mark meadows. Meadows is also believed to be a central figure in both the special counsel jack smiths investigations, the alleged mishandling of classified documents, and the election interference case. As one piece from the New York Times put it this weekend, mark meadows is everywhere and nowhere, a visible ghost, because so little is known about what he has had to say about any of this. But this morning for the first time, abc news can report key details about what mark meadows has told federal investigators about the classified documents case. From the moment federal authorities revealed they had found hundreds of documents marked classified at maralago, donald trump has insisted it was all declassified. Something he repeatedly claimed in the months that followed. When they left the white house, they were declassified. I took what i took, and it gets declassified. And, by the way, they become automatically declassified when i took them. Everything was declassified because i had the right to declassify. Jonathan but mark meadows, the man who served by Donald Trumps side as his chief of staff, has told investigators he was aware of no such broad declassification order according to sources familiar with the matter. The sources tell abc news meadows told investigators that he had no idea trump had brought classified documents and other official records with him to maralago, and that when the documents were first requested by the national archives, he offered to help trump go through the boxes he had taken from the white house to find and return official records. Meadows, according to sources, said the president did not accept his offer. [ crowd chanting ] jonathan one of the key pieces of evidence in the case is an audio recording of trump allegedly describing a classified document he appears to have in his possession as he was being interviewed by a writer and publisher who were at his club in bedminster, new jersey, for mark meadows book about his time as chief of staff. Meadows was not present for the interview. This totally wins my case, you know. Except it is, like, highly confidential, secret look at this. This was done by the military given to me. Jonathan abc news has reviewed an early draft, allegedly a fourpage war plan prepared by mark milley. On the couch, theres a fourpage report typed up by mark milley himself. It shows the generals own plan to attack iran. The draft reads, when President Trump found this plan in his old files this morning, he pointed out that making this declassified would probably win his case. But those words did not appear in the final version of the book. According to sources, meadows told investigators he directed that the reference to trump possessing a classified war plan be taken out of his book and that he knew it would be, quote, problematic if trump had such a document in his possession. A Trump Campaign spokesman responded to our new reporting by accusing the doj and special counsel jack smith of, quote, selectively leaking incomplete information without providing evidence. And called the investigation a witch hunt meant to hurt trumps political campaign. Joining us now our legal team, former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, former Trump Justice Department spokesperson. And, first, lets turn to abc Senior Reporter Katherine Faulders who broke this story for us. Trump fought mightily to keep mark meadows from testifying, talking to investigators. Now that we see he has talked to investigators, it looks like he was pretty candid. Yeah, and i think this reporting shows exactly why the trump team fought to keep meadows from testifying. It undercuts one of trumps main public arguments, that he has been making, that he declassified all of these documents before he took them from the white house to maralago. You really couldnt find a more senior official in the former chief of staff mark meadows who knows the inner workings of the white house, the operations of the white house, what was happening in those final days. You would think that any declassification order would need to cross his desk. Jonathan its hard to acknowledge that it wouldve happened without meadows its hard to imagine that it wouldve happened without meadows knowledge. So if this argument is presented in trial by trumps legal team, they essentially will have to say, well, meadows wasnt aware of anything that was going on. And to your point about them trying to prevent meadows from testifying, they fought under seal in court to prevent meadows from testifying as it relates to january 6th, but also in the congressional investigation. Jonathan well, thats what im wondering because theres been all this speculation as meadows flipped. Looking through this, i wouldnt say that hes become a hostile witness, but hes become a problematic witness for donald trump. But what do you think this means about what he may have been saying in the january 6th case . Do you think he was equally candid in the january 6th case . Sure. I think he was equally candid. We know that meadows has spoken to grand juries related to both of these cases. Sources have told us that he has candidly answered questions. Now, to your point, he hasnt flipped, per se. Theres been a lot of speculation that he has because of his silence. We dont understand there to be any cooperation agreement. But the reality is it could be problematic for trump. He is answering questions. Jonathan problematic, the word he uses. Exactly. It could be problematic for trump, candidly answering. Jonathan so, preet, whats your sense how damaging is meadows hes pretty damaging. I dont think hes flipped. We have a situation in which he has been charged in the georgia case and its unlikely that youre a charged defendant in one case but you flipped in a related case, so i dont know that hes cooperating. As we saw in the preview, donald trump himself undermined his own defense in that audiotape, which is very damning. But this is additional evidence by someone as was pointed out who was very close to donald trump, undercuts his theory, which was, on its face, a little bit laughable but he could telepathically or automatically declassify something. Well have to see how it works out with respect to his testimony. Can he be compelled to testify . Will he take the fifth amendment . Will he get immunity . Well have to see how that unfolds. But, yeah, i agree, its pretty damning. Jonathan perhaps the two key witnesses here are Donald Trumps own words and the words of his chief of staff . When youre thinking about a jury, theres just no better witness than mark meadows in terms of his closeness to donald trump both in terms of what hed know crossing his death but also his closeness to donald trump, understanding what donald trump was thinking. The only thing better of course is going to be the audio of donald trump himself in that interview with the writer. But this is also where i think that the Fulton County District Attorney sort of violated the Jurassic Park rule. She was so concerned about whether she could bring the largest case possible against donald trump and his associates. She didnt stop to think whether she should include someone like mark meadows. As a defendant. As a result, she has this large unwieldy case when she could have had, i think, the strongest case on the fake electors, stronger than the federal case. But instead its been muddied up by all of these other charges, and it could take forever. Meadows is trying to switch venue. Hes saying hes being prosecuted for something he did in his official capacity, therefore he wants to be charged in federal court. Do you think thats going to succeed . Weve seen this play out before with respect to the manhattan case where donald trump tried to transfer the venue that was denied pretty quickly. Here i think you have a more, as lawyers would say, colorable argument, a better argument, the conduct that was engaged in by mark meadows and others was related to official duties, more so certainly than giving hush money payments to pay off an adult film star. There is precedent in georgia in federal court for those kinds of cases to be removed. Theres also precedent in georgia, as i understand it, that if one party, even though theres 19 defendants, succeeds in transferring the case to federal court, everyone goes to federal court. At the end of the day, to get to the most important question, does it really matter that much . I guess it depends on who gets assigned to it in federal court. But they still have to apply the georgia rico statute, that doesnt go out the window. At the end of the day, i dont know that it helps mark meadows or any of the other trump defendants much at all if it does get transferred to federal court. Jonathan one argument is the jury pool may be more sympathetic because its not just Fulton County, its a wider area in georgia. But theres another thing, it wont be televised if its in federal court. This will have been one of the largest strategic errors ive ever seen a prosecutor make to include defendants she didnt need to include, and then because of that have her case move from state court, far more prosecution friendly than the federal court rules are going to be, different jury pool, no televised. And youre going to have a state prosecutor basically having to try this case under state law, true, but with federal procedural rules that shes not familiar with. And for what . She had, again, the strongest case against donald trump on the fake electors. She shouldve brought that alone, and instead she wanted the bigger headlines. Donald trump wouldve had the same arguments for transfer to federal court. And you have to bring the case against donald trump. I dont know if the case is undermined by adding these other defendants. I think youre right, though that, mark meadows has a much stronger case if he was acting in his capacity as chief of staff. We will continue this debate later. Thank you very much. Joining us now is former Vice President and current president ial candidate mike pence. Mr. Vice president , thank you for joining us. I want to start with our new reporting. Thank you, jon. Jonathan i want to start with our new reporting about mark meadows. As you know, donald trump has claimed that all those documents he took with him to maralago, he had declassified. But we are learning that meadows has told investigators he knew of no such broad declassification order from donald trump. What about you . Have you heard anything to suggest that the president had issued an order or even a Standing Order declassifying documents like that . Well, first off, the handling of classified materials is enormously serious in the life of the nation. But i cant really comment on your reporting. But, in my case, i was never made aware of any broadbased effort to declassify documents. There is a process that the white house goes through to declassify materials. Im aware of that occurring on several occasions over the course of our four years. But i dont have any knowledge of any broadbased directive from the president , but that doesnt mean it didnt occur, its just not something i ever heard about. Jonathan and knowing what you knew about how that white house operated, if there had been such a broad order, wouldnt his chief of staff have known about it . You know, i would expect so, but, again, i sure hope were not getting back into the lane of leaks from the Justice Department about these cases, you know, the special counsels currently working on investigating joe bidens pattern of retaining classified materials. We havent heard a peep out of that. I know theres discussion about them making arrangements for President Biden to be interviewed for that. But, look, President Trump is entitled to a presumption of innocence. Hes entitled to his day in court. And im just not going to comment on the latest leak or the latest reporting coming out of that process. Jonathan okay. Let me ask you, fully taking your point that everybody is presumed innocent until proven guilty. I remember in 2002, you voted to expel James Traficante not after he was accused but after he was convicted of a felony on corruption charges. You and virtually every other member of the house voted to expel him, saying that it wasnt right to have a convicted felon as a member of congress. Would you hold that same standard for the white house . Well, i would tell you that it is the function of the congress to determine membership where theres ethical violations. And i remember the trafficking case from about 20 years ago. It was really quite outrageous, jon. But if youre saying would i apply that to my former running mate in this race, look, i think that needs to be left to the American People. Lets have the former president have his day in court. Lets maintain a presumption of innocence in this matter and in the other matter that unfolded this week here in georgia. But ive said many times, jon, i would have preferred that these matters be left to the judgment of the American People. No ones above the law, but with regard to the president s future, my hope is when we get to that debate stage, and im still kind of hoping maybe hell come, is that we can really have a debate about the challenges facing the American People, the issues the American People are facing in the wake of the failed policies of the biden administration. Jonathan how do you intend to break through on that debate stage . This will be your first big moment whether or not he comes there with the other candidates. Whats your strategy . Well, ive had a little bit of experience with nationally televised debates. But its different with a group on stage. Look, im just going to be me. I feel like ive been preparing for this first republican president ial debate my whole life. And, frankly, as karen and i have traveled all across the country, one of the things weve come to realize is that im well known, but im not known well. Most people know me as that loyal Vice President who fought alongside President Trump until the day came that my oath to the constitution required me to stand apart. But, you knew me back when i was a house conservative leader, you knew me when i was a conservative governor showing you could balance budgets and cut taxes and expand educational choice and achieve record employment. One of my goals is for the American People, republican primary voters, to get to know me in a little bit broader context and demonstrate the kind of leadership that we bring to this, which i think is what the moment calls for. Look, this countrys in a lot of trouble. Joe biden has weakened america at home and abroad. I think theres no time for onthejob training. I want to project when im on that stage to the American People all of what came with the experience of serving as Vice President , as a governor, and as a member of congress. And my determination to bring that experience and that conservative record to bear on the challenges facing this country. Jonathan so youre going to be there trump, were hearing is not going to be there. What will it say about him if he doesnt even bother to show up to the first president ial primary debate . Well, you know, i served alongside the president for a long time. And one thing i realized about him, its not over till its over. Im actually still hoping he shows up, jon, to get on that plane and Trump Force One and head up and head out on that stage. I think every one of us wouldve qualified for that debate stage ought to be on the stage, be willing to square off, answer the tough questions, and also draw a bright line contrast. My differences with the former president go far beyond that tragic day in january two and a half years ago. As ive said many times, i see the president and others on the stage walking away from americas leadership in the world, our role as the arsenal of democracy. I see the president literally walking away from a commitment of fiscal responsibility and reform. Jonathan you mean donald trump . President trumps position on entitlement, yeah. Look, President Bidens policy on reforming entitlements in this country is insolvency, and the former president s position is identical to joe bidens position. They wont even talk about commonsense reforms of Social Security and medicare for younger americans. And, as you know, im prolife, i dont apologize for it. And i see not only the former president but others on the stage trying to relegate the question of abortion to a statesonly issue. I want people to know being a long champion for the right to life and in the oval office if im president of the united states. Jonathan were almost out of time. Chris christie says if he doesnt show up, hes running scared, hiding from the debate stage, a certified loser, a verified coward. We just heard from governor sununu saying hes chicken for not showing up. Do you agree with that . Verified coward or chicken . Well, you know they talk a little different in new jersey than indiana. Look, ill let other people make their judgment. But i hope everybody thats qualified for the debate stage, and im grateful we did, and on that stage. And lets talk about the challenges facing the American People, and lets talk about what each of us brings to meet that moment, because we have got to come together and make it clear that joe biden must never be reelected president of the united states, and we have a Better Future for the American People. Jonathan all right, former Vice President mike pence, thank you for joining us. The roundtables coming up. Plus, President Biden is heading to maui tomorrow as Recovery Efforts continue after the Deadly Wildfires. Were on the scene, and fema administrator Deanne Criswell joins us next. Administrator dean kriswell joins us next. Doors lead us to places weve never been. Your dedicated fidelity advisor can help you open those doors. They can help you create a retirementincome plan designed to balance growth and guaranteed income. And provide access to specialists who help with Estate Planning to look out for future generations so youre not just growing and protecting your wealth. Youre sharing it. Because doors were meant to be opened. Great job, everybody your shipping manager left to find themself. leaving you lost. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. Indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. Visit indeed. Com hire my most important kitchen tool . My brain. So i choose neuriva plus. Unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. To help keep me sharp. Neuriva think bigger. The pandemic may be over, but unfortunately covid19 isnt going anywhere. In fact, its still among the top five leading causes of death in the us, right after Heart Disease and cancer. And covid19 related er visits are three times higher than the flu. So stay uptodate with the latest covid19 vaccines this fall, just like you do with the flu. Because youve got no time for 19. Stay uptodate with the latest covid19 vaccines. This loss we have suffered is unspeakable and devastating. We will continue to mourn as we care for the survivors and begin to move forward together. With federal aid, we will begin a massive recovery effort to clean up and begin to rebuild the affected areas of maui. We will rebuild lahaina. Jonathan recovery operations continue in maui as the death toll climbs to at least 114, making it the fifth deadliest wildfire in u. S. History, the worst in a century. President biden is headed there tomorrow. Well speak with the fema administrator in a moment. But first, lets go to abcs melissa adan in maui. Good morning, melissa. Reporter good morning, jon. Anger growing here on maui over the lack of warning surrounding this devastating wildfire. Some residents concerned theyre being left out of conversations on rebuilding their communities. Almost two weeks after the Deadly Wildfires swept through lahaina and other parts of maui, the recovery of victims is moving painstakingly slow. Hundreds of people still unaccounted for. And of the 100 remains discovered, only a handful identified. The emotional toll still sweeping the community. It was just crazy. And when you see how many of us are there. Reporter joy richters fatherinlaw died as they were seeking shelter from the flames. There was fire coming at us in that direction, and i had turned around and there was fire coming at me from behind me. Reporter mounting outrage and frustration by devastated residents asking why the islands siren Warning System was not deployed. The man in the middle of the controversy, herman andaya. Its an outdoor siren so a lot of people who are indoors, airconditioning on, whatever the case may be, theyre not going to hear the siren. Reporter the head of mauis Emergency Management agency resigning, citing health concerns. Fema says roughly 470 First Responders and 40 search dogs are combing through the debris, hoping to reunite separated families. This process is agonizing for the families waiting for word from their loved ones, and heartbreaking for those sifting through the debris. Reporter the governor ordering the state attorney general to begin a civil inquiry into the response. On august 7th, a surveillance camera capturing this moment, a flash, possible power light arcing after being hit by a falling tree. More questions why didnt an Hawaiian Electric company shut down power with such strong winds in the forecast . As the focus turns to recovery and rebuilding, residents asking for time to grieve. The governor should not rush to rebuild the Community Without first giving people time to heal. Reporter intensifying the tension of the islands reliance on tourism and its dollars, with housing shortages and the constant presence of climate change, all obstacles in rebuilding. Foremost in their concerns the preservation of the historic roots of lahaina. President biden and First Lady Jill Biden are expected here tomorrow to tour the devastation in lahaina and meet with survivors and First Responders. Jon. Jonathan joining us now is fema administrator Deanne Criswell. Thank you for joining us. Can you give us the latest on the search and Recovery Efforts now in maui . Good morning, jon. The update i got last evening was right now the search efforts are 78 complete in lahaina town. And we continue to have our teams on the ground going through all of the structures that were lost as a result of this fire. But weve also given out already over 8 million to families that have been impacted and registered for assistance with fema, and our shelter population is down to just over 40 with over 1,200 people that have been moved into hotels, motels, and other types of shortterm rentals. Jonathan what should we expect from President Bidens visit tomorrow . You know, i think the biggest thing is he is going to be able to see what i saw when i went to maui last week, and just really experience the complete and utter devastation that this town had experienced. But hes also going to be able to talk with people and hear their stories and provide a sense of hope and assurance that the federal government is going to be with them as he is directed, and he will continue to bring in resources to support the request of the governor and the needs as they go through their recovery process. Jon as you bring in those resources, what now at this point are the greatest needs for survivors in maui . The biggest thing for them right now is that we continue to get them into the system so they can either move from congregate sheltering where, again, that population has reduced drastically, and into this shortterm rental assistance, whether thats in a hotel or a motel using airbnb, and then as we continue to work with the governor and his team, working with each of these individuals, each of these families to help them with what their longerterm strategy is going to be and where theyre going to stay while they are making plans for what theyre going to do to rebuild. And so weve got teams that are working with the individuals case by case because we know that everybodys situation is going to be unique to them. Jonathan and before you go, what is the latest on hurricane hilary as it barrels towards the west coast . People really need to take this storm in california serious. I think its interesting that the total rain amounts arent like what we see in some of our atlantic storms and gulf storms, but its going to really be potentially devastating for them in these desert areas. And, so, theyre going to have impacts for sure. Its just making sure people stay out of harms way, that they dont drive through this water and they take it serious. Jonathan thank you, administrator criswell. If youd like to support the maui relief effort, scan the qr code at the bottom of your screen. Or go to our website abcnews. Com for more information on how you can help. The roundtable is next. Please stay with us. Recently went through a divorce. She had a lot of questions when she came in. I watched my mother go through being a single mom. At the end of the day, my mom raised three children, including myself. And so once the client knew that she was heard. We were able to help her move forward. Your client wont care how much you know until they know how much you care. 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About getting vaccinated against rsv today. I think everyone should debate if you qualify. I think you owe it to the people to put out your vision, to talk about your record. Youve been a nominee of this party twice. Do you not owe it to the voters to stand up there and allow them to compare you to the rest of the people running . He can make whatever Strategic Decisions he wants, but hes a coward. I have no problem with him skipping the first couple of debates. Hes been on that debate stage plenty of times. Jonathan it doesnt appear that donald trump will attend the first Republican Debate in milwaukee on wednesday, but the other leading republican president ial candidates are gearing up for it. Lets talk about that and more with our abc roundtable. Former dnc chair donna brazile, political director rick klein, npr White House Correspondent asma khalid. And welcome back former spokesperson for the Justice Department sarah isgur. Rick, let me start with you. Trump, we can understand why hes not going. Hes got the huge lead, its a risk, but is there also a risk in not showing up . Oh, 100 . And the other candidates, hes going to take a lot of incoming and not have any effective response. This comes in the wake of the georgia indictments last week. Hes not really been able to talk publicly on that. Hes even canceled the plans for the press conference he was going to have. So hes going to be out there without an ability to push back in real time. Now, hes going to do the counter programming. Hes going to basically test the proposition that he doesnt have to engage with the other candidates. But for the other candidates, if you think that this is a race to become the nontrump candidate, this is the perfect opportunity to do that with ron desantis now in center stage, theyre going to have a chance to strut their stuff without the direct rebuttal from him. Hell come up a lot. Theres a risk without him being there. Jon just as we were coming on the air, Asa Hutchinson says he has met threshold polling and donor threshold to be in the debate. But how does that work with the rnc pledge because he said he would never support donald trump. I just talked to someone with his campaign. Hes going to sign it and say publicly that he doesnt think donald trump can be the nominee. Hes even saying that he thinks the 14th amendment might disqualify him from serving. So kind of taking care of itself. Basically he is doing what Chris Christie is doing in saying im basically going to ignore the pledge if donald trump becomes the nominee. A bunch of these candidates are really testing the rnc right now. How much are they going to hold to this. Keep in mind donald trump himself isnt signing that pledge. Jonathan donna, youre watching, you got the popcorn out. And dont forget the wine. Jonathan as somebody who once headed up a national committee, not the Republican National committee but the Democratic National committee, what do you make of how this is playing out . I would only hope that the chair of the Republican Party tomorrow will set firm guidelines not just on what will happen on wednesday but going forward. There should be some policy that says if you fail to show up for the first two debates, you know what, were going to make sure that youre not able to show up at the last four when perhaps donald trump face some new allegations and have to defend his record. This will be an opportunity for all of the secondtier candidates to have a breakthrough and the firsttier candidates, ron desantis and those who are polling in double digits to show that they have some expert knowledge on Foreign Policy and domestic policy. On one hand, as a former chair, i would be reluctant to allow donald trump to pick and choose which debate he would show up in the future. But also i would say to the candidates go out and give it your best shot. Jonathan hes not going to be there, but hes sending his Campaign People to be in the spin room. So youre going to see, you know, his Campaign Manager is going to be there, his spokesperson. Some of his congressional supporters, i believe matt gaetz is going to be there. I think theres a clear sense from his team that they cant totally cede the ground, they cant allow for trump have any part of this conversation. But what i think is really interesting is who steps up in trumps place. I think a lot of folks have been very intrigued with ron desantis and when, if ever, his campaign might launch. Who im most intrigued by is vivek ramaswamy. He is an extremely effective candidate in terms of being able to pivot the conversation. He has an agenda. He calls it America First 2. 0. But he, to me, perhaps is kind of the underrated candidate who really, if folks get a chance to see him, i think could kind of capitalize on this moment. And this is a guy that wont utter a single word of criticism about donald trump. Hes even defending trump skipping the debate. But, sarah, let me ask you about this debate memo that was prepared by Ron Desantis Super pac, the Campaign Said they never saw it. But the New York Times reporter i want to read one section from this trumps drama pitted brother against brother, friend against friend. Hes got so many distractions that its almost impossible for him to focus on moving the country forward. This election is too important, we need someone that can fight for you instead of fighting for himself. Strong words from ron desantis, his superpac. First of all, how much of a problem is it to have this debate memo out there for everybody to see . Its a huge pain for the ron Desantis Team because now they cant use anything that was in that debate memo. And, frankly, it was all pretty pat advice. I will say one of the more baffling parts of it was that he shouldnt attack donald trump but he should attack vivek ramaswamy. This is 2016 all over again but worse. Youre not only trying to be the guy against donald trump, youre now just attacking the number three guy when youre the number two guy . None of that made a lot of sense to me. But this part where youre trying to convince republican primary voters that they need to shop for another candidate, ron desantis has to convince people at this debate stage of. And this memo, i think, opens up the door for a Chris Christie or some very talented other person on this stage any time ron desantis comes close to that. That was almost word for word from a club for growth ad that has already aired about a different race, that, you know, youre just saying what your consultant said, this is what your billionaire super pac said, et cetera. It puts desantis in a bad spot when he was already having so many weeks of bad spots. Jonathan i also want to play something from an interview wi desantis this week that got a lot of attention, where he seems to be criticizing not just donald trump but also Donald Trumps supporters. Take a listen to this. We have a strand in our party that views supporting trump as whether you are a rino or not. You can be the most conservative person since sliced bread. Unless you are kissing his rear en jonathan who would want to do that . Look, the most important part about that memo was defend trump. Ron desantis need to lay out his vision. He needs to go beyond talking about his policies in florida. But whats in that memo . If Chris Christie, the former governor of new jersey, attacks donald trump, defend trump. Look, i still believe that ron desantis has a lot to prove on the national stage. And so far they say hes finally figuring out how to talk to people, how to personalize, how to show some emotion. He should show up at the brazile house on a friday night when we have some good food. After you eat all the gumbo, youll go back and say, ooh, that was damn good. Desantis has a lot to prove. But, you know what, im looking for tim scott to have a breakout moment. Im looking for nikki haley, whos also out there trying to talk about the next generation. So, i think this is an opportunity for republicans, not me, i dont have an appetite for them. Its an opportunity for republicans to talk to the American People in ways that donald trump has not talked to the American People in, ways that the party has not talked to the people about things that the American People care about, lower inflation, making sure we are protected at the border, making sure that we have sensible policies to continue to growing the economy. Trump is up by 40 points. If these republicans on the debate stage cant make a case against donald trump at this debate, this thing is over. You cant just fight amongst each other like 2016 again. Hes up by 40. I think there seems to be this huge elephant in the room that nobody wants to discuss on the Republican Debate stage beyond Chris Christie. This doesnt seem to make any sense to me. Earlier, donna, you were saying that the rnc will at some point have to say that these are the rules and if you dont show up to the debate stage youre not part of this. The challenge for the rnc, though, is that donald trump is the Republican Base. He controls the Republican Base electorate. The rnc doesnt have the power to put those rules on donald trump. And thats the point desantis is making in that interview. You can take trump out of the room, but you cant take trumpism out of the party. I do think big picture here the view from the desantis camp is he is the man in the middle, he is going to be the guy that people who are going to be taking shots at. Hes the highest polling candidate not named trump. Hes going to have to engage in some way, and theres a lot of other candidates that would love to be closer to the center of the stage than they are right now. Ron desantis, look, no ones voted yet. No one has even had a debate yet. There are a lot of opportunities for him to right a ship. He also said that if we are all if all we are, meaning all republicans are, is a listless vessel, those were his words, a listless vessel doing whatever comes down from truth social, were not going to have an enduring movement. But that looks like where we are, at least with a huge segment of the party. A huge segment of republicans are following Donald Trumps lead and continue to. Although we continue to see, we saw it in our poll with ipsos just this past week, people view these criminal charges increasingly serious when it involves january 6th activities in georgia, as well as federally. There may be a cumulative effect around that that gets to electability thats where ron desantis and the other candidates have to make their angled play. Jonathan the governor of georgia brian kemp, who has said these are serious allegations in georgia, who has said flatly the election in georgia was not stolen, listen to what else he had to say this week. For people that are still out there complaining, look, you can believe whatever you want about the 2020 election. That is your right. I understand that. I have no problem with that. But the thing is, that was three years ago. And if youre still mad about that, quit complaining about that. Jonathan you know, and, quit complaining, but also, i dont think it can be said enough that that election in georgia was the most scrutinized election of all in 202 no state more, three different recounts, including every single ballot by hand. And youve had a number of republicans including the governor come out and say, no, it was not stolen, this was a legitimate election. I think what you hear also from the governor of georgia that i think is interesting for his party is if we want to start winning elections, we need to look forward that. That being said, i think its also very notable that he decided to not raise his hand and run for election this year in 2024 because, presumably, he didnt think that he had a winning shot with trump theres the problem for republican candidates. This whole summer has been about donald trump, its been about the indictments. Maybe down the road it will have political ramifications or legal ramifications. But right now it has allowed donald trump to control the field, none of them have been able to break through the endless news cycle of indictments that donald trump has controlled. And thats why republican primary voters havent been willing to shop for another candidate. Maybe thatll end. Thats because this is a movement. I have come to look at the maga movement, the make America Great movement, as one that is very entrenched, that supports the former president , and theyre not willing to walk away from donald trump. Its up to these other eight or nine candidates i forget how many are now in the field to basically go to that movement, or go engage them and say, look, i may not be donald trump but heres my vision, why dont you give me an opportunity to serve. I dont think that will happen because they really love donald trump. Ive come to respect that. But, you know what, the debate moderators should basically open the debate stage with, do you believe donald trump won the last election . Because if they cant settle that question at this debate, then, you know what, they have no legitimacy going forward. Because the American People know who won that last election, that was joseph biden that needs to be settled within the Republican Party. Jonathan we know how some of them would answer, Chris Christie, Asa Hutchinson would say absolutely not. I think ron desantis would say no. And its a difficult question not just for where they stand on their own but because there are so many republicans that believe falsely, flatly wrongly that, the election was stolen. Do you want to offend them . So many of these folks are still making the calculation tha trump is going to make a big mistake and im going to be an heir to his followers. But its a really hard thing to do, to sarahs point, it risks replaying some of the mistakes that the other republicans made in 16. Youve got a bunch of youve got all of these outside attacks from donald trump. Republican primary voters feel defensive of right now. Thats the part that they have to get over. Jonathan thank you to the roundtable. Up next, a look at how Artificial Intelligence is changing american politics. Today. Our enemies launched an offensive against israel. If they reach tel aviv, israel will be wiped off the map. If we to, we will fight alone. The russians are preparing 11 airborne divisions. 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We, the moms who have lost our children to social media harms. We, we, we have had enough. Our politicians have failed. Working for lobbyists, not us. We need your voice to pass the kids Online Safety act this fall. Join us. Join us. Join us. Join us. Lets lead the way. My a1c was up here; now, its down with rybelsus®. Letshis a1c . E way. Its down with rybelsus®. My doctor told me rybelsus® lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill and that people taking rybelsus® lost more weight. I got to my a1c goal and lost some weight too. Rybelsus® isnt for people with type 1 diabetes. Dont take rybelsus® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. Stop rybelsus® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. Serious side effects may include pancreatitis. Gallbladder problems may occur. Tell your provider about vision problems or changes. Taking rybelsus® with a sulfonylurea or insulin increases low blood sugar risk. Side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. Need to get your a1c down . You may pay as little as 10 per prescription. Sometimes jonah wrestles with falling as governor kim reynolds is a conservative champion. He signed the heart beat bill. Why is donald trump attacking her . I opened up the governor position for kim reynolds, she fell behind, i endorsed her. Did big rallies. Now she wants to remain neutral. I dont invite her to events. Jon that was a Ron Desantis Super pac political ad that used Artificial Intelligence to mimic the voice of former President Donald Trump without disclosing it. One of the most highprofile uses of this new technology on the campaign trail so far. With the rise of a. I. Powered tools that can create hyperrealistic fakes, abc Senior Reporter tracks the race to restore trust online ahead of the 2024 election. Reporter as the 2024 campaign races ahead, new a. I. Technology is showing no sign of slowing down. From hyperrealistic a. I. Images falsely depicting what appears to be President Biden in Republican Party ads, to candidates using this technology to create fabricated images of their opponents doing things they never did, with the rise of generative a. I. Tools that can produce humanlike context from text to audio to video with a simple prompt, its becoming harder to tell whats real and whats not online. Think about the way in which we make our decisions on who we vote for, what we believe. So much of it is coming from what we see here online. Reporter this person works for a Software Company that developed new Camera Technology allowing users to save details about how and where a photo or video was taken. If you dont actually have transparency and a level of authenticity on the images and videos youre seeing, you can be easily misled without knowing the difference. Reporter we tested this tool. He says its a possible solution to the proliferation of misleading content flooding our feeds. It is part of the content authenticity initiative, a coalition of companies hoping to restore trust in what we see online. We took our image to adobe, a Founding Member of this group where the chief trust officer and general counsel showed us how transparency can be implemented through the next step of our photos journey, the edit. Type in any sentence, describe whatever you want, and the a. I. Will make up a new image based on that sentence. Its really amazing this texttoimage technology. Add some pigeons reporter users in photoshop have to opt in to record these changes in what adobe calls content credentials. Think of it as a nutrition label for content. So, like a nutrition label, when youre eating the food, you know what youre consuming while youre consuming it. It tells you the Important Information about that content, who took it, where it was taken and what edits were made. You get to decide for yourself whether or not you want to believe it. Reporter but what would we see if we published our altered image . Here we are at the social media feed that you could be consuming your daily news from. And you go through the feed and you see an image that you like and you simply click on the icon there and youll be able to see information. This was like the nutrition label for the content. It tells you what happened to the image, where it was taken, who made it, and the edits that were made along the way. Reporter he acknowledges the only way this will work is if theres wide public adoption and if social media platforms agree to display these credentials. Were talking to all the social media platforms right now. We expect soon, hopefully by the 2024 election when this is going to be very important, this technology will be everywhere. Reporter the stakes for democracy couldnt be higher, says this Digital Forensics expert. Theres a handful of states and a handful of districts where you move 50,000 votes in one direction or another, thats the ball game. And between social media, algorithmic manipulation, fake content, existing distrust of governments and media and scientists, i dont think thats out of the question. And that, to me, is worrisome that our very democracy we are talking about here is at stake. Reporter but fareed believes theres hope. I think that the technologists, the csuite of the tech companies, the government and the media drop the ball for the first 20 years of technology. I think our regulators are asking a lot of good questions and theyre having conversations and doing briefings. Thats good. We have to now act on all of this. Reporter with the 2024 election quickly approaching, experts are urging that we need these solutions now. We dont want to see an election won or lost based on some viral deepfake. We have to have those protections in place in time. Reporter for this week, Emmanuelle Saliba, abc news, new york. Jonathan thanks to emmanuelle for that. Well be right back. Hanks for t. Well be right back. Ready. Lets roll. This is for my. Oh, my god. Love you all. New season is going to be so good. So good, so exciting. Wait wheres whoopi . Im right here. Well see everybody next season. Keep talking. The new season of the jon and thats all for us today. Thank you for sharing part of your sunday with us. Check out world news tonight, and have a great day. An thank you for sharing part of your sunday with us. Check out captions by vitac world news tonight and have a great day. From americas number one news comes the all new abc news app. If you love being in the know, youre gonna love this experience. The all new abc news app download it now and play tonight. Thats crazy. We asked 100 married men if you inherited a fortune, whats the first thing you give your wife a divorce from this guide to the grapes, why a pilot says he made an Emergency Landing into a north bay vineyard. As Tropical Storm hilary moves through southern california, it will bring the bay area a chance of isolated showers today. We have warmer temperatures. More details coming up, abc 7 mornings at 9 00 is next