Transcripts For GBN The 20240703

Labour senior backbencher Stephen Timms will fill us in on what their what to look out for from their Conference Liverpool next conference in liverpool next week. Taking the week. And ill be taking the temperature of the party with a special people panel this week live the tory members and live with the tory members and im going to be joined by my colleague at the telegraph, the papers papers Political Editor, Ben Riley Smith. Hes not got a great new book out which spills the on the last years the beans on the last 13 years of rule and hell be of tory rule and hell be revealing all to me later. First of though, lets run of all, though, lets run through those front pages as you can imagine, the conference does dominate in a number of key cabinet ministers have out dominate in a number of key cabiabout nisters have out dominate in a number of key cabiabout basedi have out dominate in a number of key cabiabout based hinckley out dominate in a number of key cabiabout based hinckley talking and about based hinckley talking about what they think this conference should bring, what they sunak should do they think rishi sunak should do about of different about all sorts of different issues. About all sorts of different issues. Lets in nigel issues. And lets bring in nigel nelson now. Gb news senior nelson now. Gb news is senior political commentator , former political commentator, former political commentator, former political the sunday Political Editor of the sunday mirror the people to mirror and the sunday people to talk through nigel, talk us through them. Nigel, how lovely to see you in manchester. You too. We made it despite the you too. We made it despite the train. Indeed strikes. We did. We got up here last night. Weve had breakfast. Gone we got up here last night. Weve had theeakfast. Gone we got up here last night. Weve had the papers. Gone we got up here last night. Weve had the papers. Gone we got up here last night. Weve had the papers. Lets gone we got up here last night. Weve had the papers. Lets getne through the papers. Lets get started now. Ive called this section. Trust . Section. Who can you trust . Because there lot of because there are a lot of stories papers about this stories in the papers about this caucus , very much caucus of tories, very much augned caucus of tories, very much aligned to Boris Johnson and liz truss signing letter at the truss signing this letter at the beginning of conference. Nigel, i mean, its the last thing rishi sunak needs , basically rishi sunak needs, basically saying not support any saying we will not support any budget that puts taxes up further , which could mean that further, which could mean that theyve a working majority theyve got a working majority to overturn the governments majority on the budget if they vote against it. So if they dont like what hunt is dont like what jeremy hunt is going in the autumn, going to produce in the autumn, theyre revolt. Theyre going to revolt. Yes. I mean, interesting that the tory conference hasnt even got yet. Weve a got going yet. And weve had a rebellion. And also be its rebellion. And also be its cunous rebellion. And also be its curious about what liz truss is actually up to. I mean, does she actually up to. I mean, does she have some deluded idea she might be leader again something be leader again or Something Like that . Deluded, there its deluded, but there has been whisper that she been a bit of a whisper that she does she can back does think she can come back and run leadership again if run for the leadership again if rishi the next rishi sunak loses the next general election. Yeah, thats fanciful. Well, i think theres an awful lot of people in the queue at the moment that weve got Suella Braverman. Weve got priti got kemi priti patel, weve got Kemi Badenoch on moderate badenoch and on the moderate side, Tom Tugendhat is , is side, Tom Tugendhat is, is theyre thinking about it. So penny mordaunt. Penny mordaunt of course , yes. So theres an of course, yes. So theres an awful lot of sort of leaders in waiting moment i and generally, what do you think the of this think the mood of this conference said conference is . Nigel i said earlier to breakfast, i thought it or break. I it was quite make or break. I think rishi sunak has got a huge amount of pressure on him to deliver great on deliver a great speech on wednesday think still wednesday. I think theyre still putting touches on putting the finishing touches on that. Thrown some that. Hes actually thrown some red meat to the right in terms of this net zero climbdown. But does he need do more . Does he need to do more . Yes, of course he does. Im really curious about about why hes back on giving us hes holding back on giving us an announcement on hs2. And i do an announcement on hs2. And i do wonder if that might be a flourish in his own Conference Speech on wednesday. But itll be a weird flourish to be in manchester, basically saying, and hs2 , we and were not finishing hs2, we are okay. He could come up and say we are or were not, but were giving them the to money various northern projects. I dont know. But it just seems a peculiar situation , ian, to peculiar situation, ian, to start conference with this start the conference with this question mark over whether hs2 will get to where we are. Will ever get to where we are. Yeah, well be asking michael gove about that a bit later because obviously the because obviously hes the levelling secretary. One levelling up secretary. One might question how can levelling up secretary. One mig level question how can levelling up secretary. One mig level up question how can levelling up secretary. One mig level up if question how can levelling up secretary. One mig level up if youition how can levelling up secretary. One mig level up if you dont|ow can levelling up secretary. One mig level up if you dont finishn you level up if you dont finish hs2 in the north . Lets talk about some these interviews about some of these interviews that cabinet that the various cabinet ministers lets talk ministers have given. Lets talk about braverman versus rocket man, because shes basically taken on sir elton john. Is this a good idea from home a good idea from the home secretary . A good idea from the home secprobably mean, a good idea from the home sec probably mean, what probably not. I mean, what she is part of she calls elton john is part of an out of touch, pampered elite. Are we in that, nigel . Are we . Well, it depends where you where you stand. And what Suella Braverman said last week in washington. Right. But but the this pampered elite would presumably include the various tory mps who were horrified about her speech, especially the demonising of Vulnerable Women and gay people. Yes and theyve already complained to the chief whip. Do you think its dog whistle politics . Yes, absolutely. Yeah. There was no need for that. Is she not just channelling what people watching and listening watching this show and listening to think that actually to the show think that actually the situations out control, the situations out of control, that weve been too that weve been far too generous, that our borders have been we need been far too porous and we need to grip of this situation. To get a grip of this situation. Not inhumane. Its not inhumane. Its saying, crack on saying, look, crack down on illegal migration and make sure that migration that legal migration works. I understand shes yeah, i understand what shes getting agree. In getting at. And i do agree. In fact, it was worth going to washington because you need an international on this. International debate on this. Yeah. Migration is a global problem. It can only really be solved globally. So that part i agree her not when you agree with her not when you start demonising using the likes of lgbt migrants. Is she doing that . Is well, is she doing that . Is she just shes trying to say. Although to fair, i think the although to be fair, i think the statistics dont quite up statistics dont quite hold up on they but on this. Yeah, they dont. But there who are there are some people who are claiming to be persecuted because sexuality. And because of their sexuality. And actually thats the case. We actually thats not the case. We have a few have heard from quite a few immigration lawyers. One immigration lawyers. Theres one in week saying he in the mail last week saying he reckoned 70 of claims were spurious. Well, okay. Its still well, okay. But its still going a small number. Going to be a small number. I mean, talking about mean, youre talking about 75,000 asylum claims last year. Yeah those, only 1300 yeah of those, only 1300 mentioned sexual city. Now, if a few of them were gaming the system, thats still not very many people. Its not like the idea that loads of people are coming over pretending to be gay to try and get into the country because such a small because it is such a small number people, that number of people, was that a leadership pitch . Theres leadership pitch . Yes, theres no about it. I think no question about it. I think that weve got all these leaders now queuing suella now queuing up and Suella Braverman one of which braverman is one of them, which must make rishi sunak feel a bit uncomfortable because what theyre saying is, look, election putting election lost, were now putting our dogs, our ducks in a row to try and try and capture the election. Election. Lost the opinion polling in the observer , which is more on the observer, which is more on your side of the ideological fence, lets say is quite positive for the tories. Only ten points behind in the summer. They were as much as 27. I think. Yeah. I mean, the polls have been closing down and probably i think youre right in what you said opening that its said in your opening that its probably with with probably a lot to do with with rishi sunak Climate Change initiatives or rather scrapping climate. The scrapping net zero targets. So they just need to scrap iht next, clarify whether or not a woman can have a penis and theyve won in 2024. Yeah, i wish it was as easy as that. We both know politics doesnt work quite well. Dont about that, i dont know about that, nigel. Like nigel. It seems to work like that as far as the headline writers concerned. Lets writers are concerned. Lets talk on the talk about shapps going on the defensive. Actually talk about shapps going on the defensiv he actually talk about shapps going on the defensiv he doesnt actually talk about shapps going on the defensiv he doesnt mean ally talk about shapps going on the defensiv he doesnt mean boots saying . He doesnt mean boots on the fighting in ukraine. The Ground Fighting in ukraine. No, doesnt. No, he doesnt. Mean , what grant shapps no. I mean, what grant shapps is talking about is we already train troops train 20,000 ukrainian troops over here. And what hes talking aboutis over here. And what hes talking about is sending our trainers to ukraine. Trouble about that is it really would be a very dangerous thing to do just to have british troops inside ukraine. There may be some special forces there. Theyve never confirmed yes. But to never confirmed it. Yes. But to have them there because the way that ukraine can go wrong is probably if theres an accident, its Something Like Russian Troops mistakenly crossing the border into a nato country. So poland mistake shooting down an aircraft or Something Like that. But those are the kind of mistakes that could escalate it. And i think the danger of putting albeit putting people in, albeit trainers who are there trainers who are not there to fight, its what happens if perhaps they do do itjust seems perhaps they do do it just seems to be thats one way of making the war escalate. I mean, is this shapps trying to flex his muscles theres little muscles because theres a little bit doubt him being bit of doubt over him being given role. Given that defence role. Any history he doesnt have any history in had about in the military. Hes had about 18 cabinet. 18 different jobs in cabinet. Maybe hes just trying to be punchy and bit wallace punchy and a bit ben wallace esque. Im sure he is flexing yeah, im sure he is flexing his muscles, but i think the important thing about grant shapps the overall shapps is that the overall policy on ukraine has not changed. Yes we are still foursquare behind ukraine. That wont change under grant shapps any more than it changed under ben wallace. So i think that hes trying to show that this kind of support is just the way hes doing. It increases the risk over there. Yeah, talking about people who are at the top normally of con con poles. So back in the day, ben wallace always used to come out on top when tory voters and members were asked, would members were asked, who would you party . The you like to lead the party . The other on top you like to lead the party . The ot kemi on top you like to lead the party . The ot Kemi Badenoch. On top you like to lead the party . The ot Kemi Badenoch. Sheson top you like to lead the party . The ot Kemi Badenoch. Shes talking is Kemi Badenoch. Shes talking about echr. I mean, this is about the echr. I mean, this is again bit meat being again a bit of red meat being thrown to the right. She seems to be suggesting im to be suggesting and im intrigued this intrigued because this is appearing in all the appearing in all of the different interviews, oh, we cant off table. We cant take it off the table. We just extrapolate that for people listening watching, listening and watching, nigel, because all of these because clearly all of these cabinet have fed because clearly all of these c. Lineet have fed because clearly all of these c. Line about have fed because clearly all of these c. Line about the have fed because clearly all of these c. Line about the havethat fed because clearly all of these c. Line about the havethat they a line about the echr that they are trying to leave the door open to us leaving it. Yes, i think were being softened up just that softened up for just that purpose. I softened up for just that purpose. I mean, again, purpose. I mean, thats again, part of what what Suella Braverman doing over in braverman was doing over in Washington Week because she washington last week because she was raising the prospect of leaving the refugee convention. Now, the European Court of human rights is in their sights. I think it would be a huge mistake to do Something Like that. We cant just start leaving International Institutions because we dont agree with certain decisions. And where is our moral standing in the world if we do . If we leave echr, it if we do . If we leave echr, it puts us on a par with russia and belarus. And do we really want to be in that in that kind of club . But it does seem to me that we are nudging towards that. So all that has to happen is echr tries to block rwanda and theyll then pull us out. Do you know what . A while ago, a long time ago, when Michael Fallon was still defence secretary, i remember having with him having a conversation with him where shouldnt where he said we shouldnt leave the just the the eu, we should just leave the echr actually that is echr and actually maybe that is a. Well, no, mean a solution. Well, no, i mean from perspective of its from the perspective of its largely the brexiteers calling for. The of the for this. Its the right of the party the keeps on party saying the echr keeps on getting in way. It keeps on getting in the way. It keeps on thwarting do thwarting what we want to do with are with our migrants. There are others who say, well, we can get around actually think around that and actually i think the is the mood music from sunak is very well, supreme very much, well, the Supreme Court ruling, but court can have its ruling, but were we want were going to do what we want anyway, with anyway, a little bit like with prisoner voting. Yeah i mean, the thing i i mean, the only thing i would say is that the echr we actually more than half the actually win more than half the cases that before it, actually win more than half the cases that before it , that we cases that go before it, that we lose some win some. But thats the point of having an international court. Yes. And what happens to countries who say have ethical foreign say have an ethical Foreign Policy want to trade policy and dont want to trade with . Policy and dont want to trade witiright. . Policy and dont want to trade witiright. Talk about right. Lets talk about michael taking the Michael Michael gove taking the michael gove hes gove said, because hes basically he just hes basically saying he just hes saying having a go at keir saying hes having a go at keir starmer saying, know, starmer and saying, you know, where net zero . Where where is he on net zero . Where is these issues . Is he on any of these issues . Which fair comment, but which might be fair comment, but its michael its not exactly as if michael gove is some kind of, you know , gove is some kind of, you know, eco eco hawk. Hes eco dove. Hes an eco hawk. Hes criticising himself here. He is indeed. Yes. But. But michael gove is very skilled at toeing the line. So what you toeing the line. So what you said you can always just said before, you can always just sort change slightly to sort of change slightly to accommodate whatever the current politics is. Politics is. Yeah, well, ill be asking him about this because im confused now because he was the one who said absolutely not. We will be delaying the petrol will not be delaying the petrol and diesel ban and then suddenly , sunak has , of course rishi sunak has delayed well him delayed it. So well ask him for his to might ask his reaction to that. Might ask him a couple of questions about boris, suggested boris, because he suggested in this sunday this piece in the sun on sunday that on speaking that theyre back on speaking terms theyve a terms and that theyve had a long at an event. Long chat at an event. Love to know what wed love to know what theyre other. Wed love to know what the� ill other. Wed love to know what the� ill ask other. Wed love to know what the� ill ask him. Other. Wed love to know what the� ill ask him. Ill other. Wed love to know what the� ill ask him. Ill askther. Ill ask him. Ill ask him. Nigel, me final nigel, just give me a final overview this Conference Overview of this conference wednesday. Rishi wednesday. I, i think rishi sunakisin wednesday. I, i think rishi sunak is in a stronger position now , certainly than he was in now, certainly than he was in the do you think . The summer. What do you think . Im not sure. I think well, im not sure. I think that that what hes got to do is try unite a party that seems try and unite a party that seems determined to tear itself apart. If you can achieve that at this conference, i think he will be pleased when it comes down to the wider public, how many people actually are concerned about what happens at conference. Were about conference. Were talking about a 13 years, tired government. A 13 years, a tired government. Yes. The idea of any big new ideas coming fonnard i think is unlikely. Uniting his party has unlikely. Uniting his party has got to be his first goal. Tories in having to unite party shock is the headline from manchester this morning from nigel nelson. Thank you very much indeed joining this much indeed for joining me this morning. To you. Morning. Lovely to see you. Well, on mentioning it, well, i keep on mentioning it, dont to be joined dont i . Im going to be joined by p dont i . Im going to be joined by up secretary by levelling up secretary michael gove in just minute. Michael gove in just a minute. Will to shed any will he be able to shed any light the north light on whether the north will be a speed rail be getting a high speed rail line . That back after the weather. Hello, im marco petagna. Hello, im marco petagna. Heres your latest weather update from the met office. Update from the met office. Well see a mixed bag of weather across over next few across the uk over the next few days. Seeing some days. Most of us seeing some rain when the sun days. Most of us seeing some rain through when the sun days. Most of us seeing some rain through it when the sun days. Most of us seeing some rain through it should| the sun days. Most of us seeing some rain through it should feel sun pops through it should feel fairly warm for the time of yean fairly warm for the time of year. Bit of a three year. Weve got a bit of a three way weather across way split weather wise across the today. A the uk through the day today. A slow rain slow moving band of rain affecting of affecting wales, parts of northern , the north northern england, the north midlands, at times working midlands, even at times working into southwest of into the Far Southwest of england. Some of that rain england. There some of that rain heavy tending heavy for a while, but tending to ease as we go into the afternoon, whereas towards the south east brighter afternoon, whereas towards the south e mostly brighter afternoon, whereas towards the south e mostly brhere r afternoon, whereas towards the south emostly brhere and picture, mostly fine here and brighter 1 showers brighter with 1 or 2 showers towards northwest towards the north and northwest. The sunshine towards. But in the sunshine towards the becoming the south east becoming quite warm. Temperatures peaking warm. Temperatures here peaking at 23 or 24 celsius amid 70s in fahrenheit and even towards the north at 17 or 18 degrees. Its pretty for the time year pretty warm for the time of year as head the evening as we head through the evening and overnight, rain and overnight, that band of rain continues affect some central continues to affect some central and parts uk. And southern parts of the uk. Fairly patchy rain here and i think southeast should think the far southeast should against a fine with some clear spells, clearer spells spells, with clearer spells towards north northwest towards the north and northwest and showers once again and a few showers once again toward northwest the toward the far northwest of the uk night in the south at uk. A warm night in the south at 15 or degrees, a little bit 15 or 16 degrees, a little bit fresher towards the north at near a to celsius as as near a 10 to 11 celsius as as for monday, well, once again, outbreaks of rain affect some central and southern parts of the tending the uk. If anything, tending to pp the uk. If anything, tending to pop the day in some pop up through the day in some parts. So some heavy bursts developing across parts of wales, and locally wales, the midlands and locally down Far Southwest wales, the midlands and locally do england. Far southwest wales, the midlands and locally do england. Far through st of england. As we go through monday towards the southeast, a brighter a few brighter picture with a few showers brighter with showers and brighter with showers and brighter with showers towards north showers towards the far north too. Again, fairly warm in too. But again, fairly warm in the sunshine towards the southeast. Southeast. Well, well , come back to the well, well, come back to the Camilla Tominey show live from manchester and im here with michael gove levelling up secretary and the mp for surrey heath as build lovely to see you mr gove. Thank you coming on mr gove. Thank you for coming on the pleasure. The show this morning. Pleasure. Camilla. Intrigued the show this morning. Pleasure. Camilla. When intrigued the show this morning. Pleasure. Camilla. When i intrigued the show this morning. Pleasure. Camilla. When i announced that because when i announced that you were coming on this show , i you were coming on this show, i obviously said you were coming on patel others , and i on priti patel and others, and i received a memo from two different people describing you received a memo from two difarent people describing you received a memo from two difa net people describing you received a memo from two difa net zer0 le describing you received a memo from two difa net zero architect. Ling you received a memo from two difa net zero architect. So you as a net zero architect. So theres a bit of scurrilous behaviour on, maybe by behaviour going on, maybe by some in the more climate sceptic wing of the party, pointing out the fact that youre the one thats pushed for all of these net measures, youre the net zero measures, youre the one wanted the petrol one who wanted the petrol and diesel youre one diesel car ban. Youre the one that cosied up Greta Thunberg that cosied up to Greta Thunberg and goes on. Yes. And and the list goes on. Yes. And youve had to climb down on this climate stuff. I think David Cameron once famously called it the green crap. I mean, how are you feeling about this . Because the green crap. I mean, how are you feelpush bout this . Because the green crap. I mean, how are you feelpush this this . Because the green crap. I mean, how are you feelpush this agenda, cause the green crap. I mean, how are you feelpush this agenda, butie you did push this agenda, but have you now realised that its just politically expedient . Have you now realised that its jusino, politically expedient . Have you now realised that its jusino, i olitically expedient . Have you now realised that its jusino, i imically expedient . Have you now realised that its jusino, i im passionateiient . Have you now realised that its jusino, i im passionate about no, i im passionate about the environment and when i was environment secretary, we did a lot. But in environment secretary, we did a lot. But in order to environment secretary, we did a lot. But in order to ensure that lot. But in order to ensure that as we left the European Union , as we left the European Union, we took advantage of the new freedoms that we had actually to be a greener country. The ban on new petrol and diesel cars that we brought in at that time was for 2040. Yes, its now 20, 35, so its more ambitious. For 2040. Yes, its now 20, 35, so its more ambitious. Yes. So its more ambitious. Yes. Than when i was doing 20, 30. It was you did say quite recently. No, theres absolutely no way were back on that timeline. Well , i certainly timeline. Well, i certainly think that it was right to move from 2040 to 2035 and to show a greater degree of ambition. But as the Prime Minister has pointed out, were were world leading in our moves towards net zero in our decarbonisation and of course, the environment is about much more than dealing with Climate Change. So that is the single biggest threat to our environment and the Prime Minister, i think, is right to say, look, were going meet say, look, were going to meet those but do not those targets, but we do not want so at a time want to do so at a time when people are feeling pinch, people are feeling the pinch, which actually hit them which will actually hit them hard the pocket when we dont hard in the pocket when we dont need to. On reflection , was it because on reflection, was it because at end the day , its at the end of the day, its not very tory voters , very popular with tory voters, as weve seen this opinion poll, which interesting which i think is interesting in the now only the observer, youre now only ten after this ten points behind after this climate climbdown. So were you a little bit out of sync with tory voters, do you think . And rishi sunak caught up . No, i think youre no, i think that the youre absolutely right taking absolutely right that taking a long term view and at the same time also making sure that we dont hit hard working people is the right thing to do. But overall , that band, 2030 was overall, that band, 2030 was immovable and its been moved. Yeah. But overall and sunak talks about keir starmer are being flip flop ish. Well, we can get on to keir starmer in a second, but. But the is that if youre the thing is that if youre travelling in a direction and the, the direction that were travelling is greater Environmental Protection in net zero, you can zero, then sometimes you can accelerate and sometimes you can decelerate, but youre still travelling in same direction. Now talking speed now were talking about speed. Yes. Lets talk about hs2. Yes. Whether its speed or capacity still debate this whole still open to debate this whole prevarication over the manchester leg, you are the levelling up secretary. If you dont do this manchester leg, youre not levelling up. I mean, bofis youre not levelling up. I mean, Boris Johnson , your former Boris Johnson, your former colleague, has said that rishi is his to think of is out of his mind to think of scrapping of this rail scrapping this part of this rail project that, lets face has project that, lets face it, has somewhat crept out of control from a budget perspective. Weve got this ludicrous situation where its not coming to london. So its probably going so its probably actually going to to go to to take more time to go to Old Oak Common get on it, to go oak common to get on it, to go to birmingham, maybe not go to birmingham, to maybe not go to birmingham, to maybe not go to manchester. And then whats happened to Northern Powerhouse rail . Levelling happened to Northern Powerhouse railnorth levelling happened to Northern Powerhouse railnorth at levelling happened to Northern Powerhouse railnorth at all. Evelling the north at all. Well , the first thing is work well, the first thing is work is going on hs2 as is still going on on hs2 even as we speak. The second is we speak. The second thing is i cant and you wouldnt expect me to speculate on. You reckon, though . Do you reckon, though . I mean, so close to the mean, youre so close to the action, you must. No, action, you must. No, no, no, no. The most important i think the most important thing make that thing is to make sure that we get for from every get value for money from every pound spend transport pound that we spend on transport and make and critically, we need to make sure as well as linking sure that as well as linking north and south, we also link east and west. And we also need east and west. And we also need to make sure thats point. To make sure thats the point. Links cities like links within cities like manchester are spent as well. Manchester are spent as well. Manchester and leeds what manchester and leeds still dont have that rail link. You know, you cant easily get across the pennines in 2023. If you in the north, youd be you were in the north, youd be angry. Youd be saying no. This angry. Youd be saying no. This government too london government is far too london centric. It isnt. All roads centric. It isnt. All roads lead it should be lead to london. It should be a road from sheffield to road leads from sheffield to leeds to manchester to newcastle i i i agree that weve been to london centric in the past and thats have a term thats why we have a Long Term Plan up. So with plan for levelling up. So with lots different. So you think lots of different. So you think that go to manchester that hs2 should go to manchester then . Well, i think levelling up involves doing many things. Involves doing many more things. Give position that. Give us your position on that. Should to manchester . Should it go to manchester . Should it go to manchester . Think we to make well, i think we need to make sure were absolute sure that were getting absolute value money. Sure that were getting absolute val|come money. Sure that were getting absolute val|come moryou able to come on. You must be able to have opinion on whether have an opinion on whether it should manchester not. Should go to manchester or not. The most i absolutely think the most important is making sure important thing is making sure that level up, we take that when we level up, we take into account all of the things that we need to do. So weve shifted funding, that we need to do. So weve shif should funding, that we need to do. So weve shif should go funding, that we need to do. So weve shifshould go to funding, that we need to do. So weve shif should go to manchester but should it go to Manchester Research and Development Funding . Were to funding . Well were going to have funding . Well were going to havshould it not . Should it not . Should it not . Will it should it have to look every conceivable pound look at every conceivable pound that we spend on transport in order to make sure that we get value for money . Not an answer to the question whether you it should whether you think it should go to right. So to manchester. All right. So your answer to that question, lets answer lets try and get an answer to another question. The tax burden. I burden. Yes. Scheduled to be, i think, highest in think, 37. 7, the highest in peace you know this youve peace time. You know this youve got caucus of your own party got a caucus of your own party on fight got a caucus of your own party on right saying we will not on the right saying we will not support tax rises. Support any more tax rises. Truss priti patel, whos coming on later, what do you think of these colleagues . Theyve also been apparently exchanging whatsapp not those whatsapp messages, not those specific weve seen whatsapp messages, not those specifwhatsapps weve seen whatsapp messages, not those specifwhatsapps talkinge seen whatsapp messages, not those specifwhatsapps talking about| some whatsapps talking about rishi having the charisma rishi sunak having the charisma of door. Whats going on here . Of a door. Whats going on here . Are you behind this caucus saying that taxes should come down or do you think theyre being scurrilous . Being scurrilous . Well, no. I think every conservative wants to bring taxes down and to reduce the tax burden. But but the thing we must do first is to bring inflation under control. The biggest tax cut that we can give to the country is bringing inflation down. But naturally , inflation down. But naturally, whenever conservatives can, we always want to cut taxes. And always want to cut taxes. And the colleagues who are making that argument arent are, to my mind , simply making the argument mind, simply making the argument that all of us in government believe in as well. So should he. Should the chancellor cut taxes come the autumn statement . Autumn statement . Well, as to which taxes when its the chancellor, you quite rightly point out , who will rightly point out, who will decide. And i believe that it is only after we deal with inflation effectively that we can then cross that threshold and we do want to reduce taxes. And we do want to reduce taxes. But i cant anticipate at where we will be on that journey at this stage and on the inflation point, theres been some suggestions by Caroline Wheeler on the sunday times that jeremy hunt has been sort of overheard speaking about the idea of having an election once inflation is below 3. So if it happens in the spring, it happens in the spring, it happens in the spring, if it happens in the autumn, then. Have autumn, it happens then. Have you heard anything about when there election . I there might be an election . I know next year, but which know its next year, but which of two seasons . Know its next year, but which of i two seasons . Know its next year, but which of i certainlyeasons . Know its next year, but which of i certainly donts . Know its next year, but which of i certainly dont know. I certainly dont know. I certainly dont know. All right. Fair enough. Also, all right. Fair enough. Also, lets talk about you and talking about boris in your sun on sunday interview, because i was intrigued by this. Yes. Said intrigued by this. Yes. You said you patched things up you sort of patched things up and you had a and deep and and you had a long and deep and meaningful conversation and i just if you could just wondered if you could enlighten what enlighten us at all as to what was , what you think of was discussed, what you think of bofis was discussed, what you think of Boris Johnsons future in this party. That hes party. Is it a shame that hes not at conference making his unique contribution . Not at conference making his uni well, ntribution . Not at conference making his uni well, youretion . Not at conference making his uni well, youre absolutely well, youre absolutely right. The sun on sunday have a brilliant interview pages 14 and 15 today. Yes, ive read it. Kate ferguson, i would recommend more people read it. As for boris, look , i enjoyed working boris, look, i enjoyed working for boris. We all know that bofisis for boris. We all know that boris is a politician with massive gifts. But also you know, he made some mistakes and we all know what happened as a result of that. I had the result of that. I had the opportunity to talk to him at a social event a wee while ago. But in fairness to boris , hes but in fairness to boris, hes now a private citizen. So its a private conversation. Did you ever apologise for the ship knifing of 2016 the leader ship knifing of 2016 to him . I think a long time ago, yes. I think a long time ago, yes. Do you regret that now . Do you regret that now . I, i think that there have been so many turbulent toing and froing that its probably best for historians to judge what was right and what was wrong rather than me. How do we think historians are going to judge Suella Braverman are going to judge Suella Bravern agree with her . Do you agree with her . Thoughtful. Well i mean, i look at britain. I think that its a very multicultural country and its been hugely successful as that. So do you disagree with suella then . No, because i think she was making a very specific point, which for us to continue which is that for us to continue to be a successful multi ethnic , country, do , multiracial country, we do need to make sure that we have a core of values everyone who core of values that everyone who lives here accepts and coheres around the rule of law, democracy , tolerance for democracy, tolerance for minorities and so on. And we have been successful. If you look at the cabinet, if you look at the parliament, if you look at the parliament, if you look at the parliament, if you look at the leadership that we have in the media, in the private sector, in so many other areas, britain , i think is probably one britain, i think is probably one of the most successful multi ethnic, multiracial democracies in the world. But you only maintain that success if people have common evidence that your policy on migration and your policy on integration is okay. So how has it failed then . And she actually guilty of and is she actually guilty of dog whistle politics . Theres some whos talking about this point people point shes made about people claiming persecution because of their homosexuality. And their homosexuality. And actually its a tiny actually its only a tiny proportion migrants, yet proportion of migrants, yet shes thing. So shes made that a big thing. So is a dog whistle . Is she blowing a dog whistle . No, dont think so at all. Is she blowing a dog whistle . Think dont think so at all. Is she blowing a dog whistle . Think suella think so at all. Is she blowing a dog whistle . Think suella was1k so at all. Is she blowing a dog whistle . Think suella was making all. I think suella was making a number thoughtful points. Number of thoughtful points. One of we obviously of them was that we obviously need to provide people with the reassurance that were dealing with in order with illegal migration in order to happy situation to maintain the happy situation that in the uk where that we have in the uk where were of the countries, were one of the countries, the electorate doesnt have that insurance. Well come back insurance. Well, well come back to. We are one of the to that. We are one of the countries in europe, if not, i think the best when it comes to showing warmth and a welcoming attitude towards people coming here legally who are genuinely fleeing persecution. But its fleeing persecution. But its also the case that the number of people who are coming here illegally, particularly on small boats, has diminished. There is more robert more to do. But suella Robert Jenrick and the team are working very hard on that. I notice as well from your interview talked a little interview you talked a little bit crime, that bit about knife crime, that tragic elian him bit about knife crime, that tragic killed elian him bit about knife crime, that tragic killed inzlian him bit about knife crime, that tragic killed in croydon him being killed in croydon last week, just horrific. Week, which was just horrific. And bit about and you talked a bit about lockdown and whether were lockdown and whether you were asking yourselves questions about should have about whether we should have locked is that locked down schools. Is that something now because locked down schools. Is that somwereg now because locked down schools. Is that somwere locked now because locked down schools. Is that somwere locked down . Jw because locked down schools. Is that somwere locked down . Hawk ause locked down schools. Is that somwere locked down . Hawk you you were locked down . Hawk you were pushing things be were pushing for things to be locked down too much . Well, i think we now have an opportunity to reflect on the whole. Oh, sorry. Thats my phone. Oh, who it . No. Phone. Oh, who is it . No. Should you answer it . Should you answer it . No , no, not on this. No, no, not on this. No, no, not on this. Is it rishi sunak . Is it rishi sunak . Not on this occasion. No. No. The have an opportunity the we now have an opportunity to on that. Do think to reflect on that. I do think it absolutely necessary we it was absolutely necessary we to in order to prevent to lock down in order to prevent the of the virus. But the spread of the virus. But i also think that we look back also think that we can look back and learn lessons for the future. Think area future. And i think the area that was most painful and difficult locking down. So that was most painful and difyout locking down. So that was most painful and difyou regret. Ocking down. So that was most painful and difyou regret being| down. So that was most painful and difyou regret being so wn. So that was most painful and difyou regret being so hawkish . Do you regret being so hawkish . No okay. No no. Okay. One more question, if i may. It might sound little it might sound a little self indulgent, was self indulgent, but i was intrigued hear intrigued this week to hear from your nokes , your colleague, caroline nokes, calling this channel to be calling for this channel to be closed down. Youre appearing on this channel this morning, and were you. Were delighted to see you. Secretary , do you think secretary of state, do you think that gb news should closed down . Of course not. We shouldnt be business saying be in the business of saying closed down free speech. News closed down free speech. Gb news is a valuable addition to what i think some people have called the broadcasting ecology. People should more choice. There should have more choice. There should have more choice. There should more voices. Yes, should be more voices. Yes, there will be people on gb news who will say things that are offensive. There have been people bbc whove said people on the bbc whove said things that are offensive and indeed on things that are offensive and indee channels on things that are offensive and indee channels as on things that are offensive and indee channels as well. On things that are offensive and indee channels as well. Nyou other channels as well. So you know, the thing is channels welcome back to the Camilla Tominey show live from the conservative Party Conference in manchester. Weve got lots more to come on the show. We might be at the tory conference, but in just a minute ill be speaking to Stephen Timms to the labour mp Stephen Timms and around for my and stick around for my interview with the former home secretary, patel. Be secretary, priti patel. Ill be back jiffy. Just after 10 a. M. Im ray addison in the newsroom. The Prime Minister will work to convince voters and the Party Faithful that hes ready to make tough decisions for the country. As the conservative Party Conference gets undennay , protesters have gets undennay, protesters have made it clear that they want their voice heard during the four day event, which starts today. As questions continue over the future of the hs2 rail project and levelling up in the north, rishi sunak is announcing a £1 billion fund to help regenerate high streets across the uk. 55 towns will be given the uk. 55 towns will be given £20 million to help improve their communities over the course of the decade and well. Meanwhile, former Prime Minister liz truss will urge the government to cut Corporation Tax during her speech at the conference she will say conservatives must position themselves as the party of big business again, scrapping a planned increase in Corporation Tax from 19 to 25 was included in her mini budget during her brief tenure in downing street. Shes one of more than 30 tory mps whove promised not to support the chancellors autumn statement if it contains tax rises. A key part of the windsor rises. A key part of the Windsor Framework has been implemented today with the start of a new system for moving goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. A new trusted trader scheme is now in effect with a system of green and red lanes at ports. Our Northern Ireland ports. Our Northern Ireland reporter Dougie Beattie explains. As the protocol grace penods explains. As the protocol grace periods end , the framework periods end, the framework document comes into place. Although we must say this is a phased approach , this today a phased approach, this today really affects the retailers, the large supermarkets that have had problems with their supply chains. The issues using groupings may still fierce problems and that will really hit smaller retailers as. But the real battle lines here will be drawn in january and right through to october next year, when customs not only look at goods travelling from gb into Northern Ireland, but also from goods leaving ireland to go back in to the uk. In to the uk. Dougie beattie theyre ofgems Energy Price Cap has now fallen across England Wales and scotland in place for the next three months. Its expected to reduce the average bill from just over £2,070 to just over 1090. Theres still more than 50 higher than pre crisis levels. The government is yet to announce any Financial Support for struggling households. Some for struggling households. Some single use plastic items are now banned. In england. Businesses can no longer sell products like plastic cutlery, plates and polystyrene cups, and they face fines if they do. Local authorities will be able to carry out inspections to make sure the rules are being followed as part of efforts to reduce the amount of non recyclable material. This is non recyclable material. This is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker by saying play gb news now lets get back to. Camilla well , play gb news now lets get back to. Camilla well, come back to to. Camilla well, come back to the Camilla Tominey show live from the conservative Party Conference in manchester. In just a moment. Im going to be speaking to labour mp Stephen Timms. Im also going to be joined by former home secretary priti patel, and were going of going to take the temperature of the party with a special the tory party with a special Peoples Panel of tory members and top political journalist Ben Riley Smith about and top political journalist ben rilelastnith about and top political journalist ben rilelastnityears about and top political journalist ben rilelastnityears of about and top political journalist ben rilelastnityears of tory about and top political journalist ben rilelastnityears of tory rulet and top political journalist ben rilelastnityears of tory rule. The last 13 years of tory rule. But before all that, Stephen Timms , labour mp for east ham timms, labour mp for east ham and chair of the work and pensions committee, joins pensions select committee, joins me thank you very me now. Stephen, thank you very much some time with much for sharing some time with me sunday morning. Now me on this sunday morning. Now i appreciate the labour party appreciate its the labour Party Conference next in conference next week in liverpool. Are with the liverpool. We are with the tories we speak. Stephen, tories as we speak. Stephen, lets talk the lets just talk about the private schools policy, which is one of the kind of nailed on policies that were actually sure that keir starmer does want to introduce prime introduce if he becomes Prime Minister year. Now introduce if he becomes Prime Minister year. Now theres minister next year. Now theres been a bit of flip flop been a bit of a flip flop on this you initially said this policy. You initially said you wanted to strip private schools of their charitable status vat status as well as charging vat on fees. Youve taken on school fees. Youve taken away part of that. Youre saying you dont mind the schools being charitable , you want charitable, but you still want to put vat on . Is this policy just completely confused . Whats going on or another going on or is it another example of sir keir starmer being capped flop . Being capped in flip flop . I dont think it is. I mean, the crucial thing is that the tax changes and the question of why these tax breaks are appropriate for private schools, i cant think of any justification for them other than that its the way its always been done. I think the always been done. I think the partys right to say that that private schools should pay vat along with everybody else because that will generate some much needed funds to improve state schools, which and, you know, in the end is in everybodys interest, including the interests of people who send their children to private schools, for state schools to be doing good job. But doing a really good job. But its not in the interests of people who send their children to schools have 20 to private schools to have 20 added bills. Added to their bills. Keir starmer has said, oh, well, its hopefully the schools wont charges on. But wont pass these charges on. But if you listen to any of the independent schools bodies, theyre saying that parents will be droves. That be leaving in their droves. That will push an estimated will then push an estimated 40,000 private School Pupils into the state system. How will into the state system. How will labour be able to cope with those children . How quickly will they be able to build the classrooms needed to accommodate them . Well, the institute for fiscal studies looked at this and said they dont think there will big move from will be a big move away from private schools. But i come back to the key question why should private schools these tax breaks . Schools have these tax breaks . What is the justification for them other than thats how its always been done . These absolute right to take a fresh look at this and accept that private education should be taxed in the same way as other services. We have to pay vat on everything else. Why not on school fees . And what about the other criticism that actually it will make the private School System even more elitist . Because your likes of your etons and your winchesters, theyll be able to afford the fee hike. The parents, theyre these schools have got great reserves , massive have got great reserves, massive endowments, lots of investments. But most independent schools are of 400 pupils or less. Are of 400 pupils or less. Theyre service by parents of children who are just about managing to afford the fees. These are the very kids. One these are the very kids. One imagines that labour are behind in terms of social mobility. In terms of social mobility. Theyre the ones who are going to be forced out of the private sector into the state sector as well. Private schools are ovennhelmingly used by better off families for obvious reasons and i think its perfectly reasonable to expect them to pay the ordinary taxes for that service that we all pay for every other service. So i dont every other service. So i dont think theres any justification that private School Parents already pay tax, dont they . Education. Education. But mr tims private School Parents, they pay tax. They pay tax , but they dont use the tax, but they dont use the schools. So in a way, you could argue that the government owes them a rebate. Them a rebate. But why should education, private education even benefit from a tax break that doesnt apply to anything else . Apply to anything else . Okay, fair point. Fair point. Lets move on to ulez , if we lets move on to ulez, if we can, because obviously im noting your constituency being east ham. What do the good people of east ham make of ulez and is this a disastrous policy from who of from the mayor of london who of course, for your side . Labour course, is for your side . Labour sadiq khan well, sadiq khan is doing a great job and i really welcome the improvements in air quality that my constituents in east ham have benefited from, benefited from the ulez came in here several years ago. There was one constituent who came to see me who was worried about it, but, you know, it went in really with very little comment and its definitely contributed to a much appreciated improvement in local air quality. And of course, theres more that needs to be done, but its a big step in the right direction. There has been some criticism of sadiq khan in the week for taking his eye off the ball when it comes to knife crime in the capital. Youll be familiar with the tragic death of Elianne Andam on wednesday in croydon. Has he been focusing too much on some of these green policies and not enough on trying to rid the capital of lethal blades . Well, the what happened in croydon was absolutely terrible and theres been far too much of this over a period, including some tragic deaths in my own borough in in newham. Borough in in newham. I think what we need here is a really good cross Government Strategy , focusing on tackling strategy, focusing on tackling this massive problem. We just havent had that. Yes, the mayor is playing his part. The met police in my area is working. Really really hard, but they dont seem to have the backing of the government. Thats the change that i think is needed here. Im going to ask you this as well, mr timms, because our viewers and listeners may not remember, but you were yourself stabbed by a constituent. Theres been some talk in the news week about the ease news this week about the ease with which particularly young people obtain knives online, people can obtain knives online, that they can go and buy. Very sharp knives, zombie knives and other knives on amazon. Do you other knives on amazon. Do you think there should be an age limit on the purchase of knives . Do we need to bring in more regulations to stop the sales of knives people . Knives to young people . Yes, we do. Specifically onune yes, we do. Specifically online sales because of course, they are not caught by the bans which apply to shops in the uk. I campaigned on this in 2018. I was promised that these changes would be in the Online Safety bill and they are in the Online Safety bill the Online Safety bill is still not yet in effect , but im hoping when it does come into effect, we will finally have much better protections against online sales of these appalling weapons , of these appalling weapons, which to many people are still getting hold of at the moment. Getting hold of at the moment. And mr timms , obviously it is and mr timms, obviously it is your conference next week in liverpool. We understand that. Keir starmer is struggling a little bit with his speech. What little bit with his speech. What would you like to hear from the labour leader next week in liverpool . Liverpool . Well, starmer has done well, keir starmer has done a superb job in positioning the labour party as a credible alternative government. I was campaigning in Glasgow Rutherglen in the by election this week and met people there switching both from the conservative party and the snp to labour. Its done. Hes done to labour. Its done. Hes done a fantastic job. Hes set out the five missions which he wants to be the hallmarks of his government and im no doubt that next week we are going to start to hear some more of the details and i think that will be an important step fonnard. But the mission is the kind of ten Year Missions he set out, i think are absolutely right. Yes although the poll gap between labour and the conservatives has narrowed , according to opinion narrowed, according to opinion in observer today, youre in the observer today, youre only ten points ahead and you had been so its not all had been 25. So its not all going right for keir starmer, is it . Well , i dont it . Well, i dont think anyone expected us to be 25 points ahead by the time of the general election. Election. Id happily settle for ten myself if , you know, its myself if, you know, its a remarkable turnaround for the Labour Party Since keir became leader at and i think his speech next week will be a very important opportunity to spell out further to people how labour will change britain as the chief executive of iceland said when he resigned from the conservative party yesterday, nothing seems to be better today than it was when the conservatives came to power 13 years ago. Its desperate time for a change. Stephen timms, thank you very much indeed forjoining this much indeed for joining this morning. Lovely to speak to you. But it is interesting that polling and it is interesting, this idea that perhaps there isnt fervour behind keir isnt this fervour behind keir starmer be Prime Minister as starmer to be Prime Minister as there tony blair. But there was with tony blair. But well until next week when well wait until next week when well wait until next week when we be liverpool with we will be in liverpool with this discuss labour this show to discuss labour matters. Go matters. But for now dont go anywhere because in a minute im going quizzing the former going to be quizzing the former home secretary and tory big beasts , dame priti on beasts, Dame Priti Patel, on everything from Migrant Action to cuts. All to whether we need tax cuts. All that more with me after the that and more with me after the weather. Hello there and greg dewhurst. And welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. We do have rain in the forecast over the coming days, but therell be some bright spells at times too, and generally on and temperatures generally on the particularly and temperatures generally on the towards articularly and temperatures generally on the towards next|larly and temperatures generally on the towards next weekend. We head towards next weekend. Low pressure generally dominating the pressure pattern over the next few days , bringing over the next few days, bringing spells of rain, but eventually High Pressure should start to move the middle the move in by the middle of the week. Afternoon, we do have week. This afternoon, we do have bnght week. This afternoon, we do have bright spells across Northern Ireland, scotland with a few scattered here, some scattered showers here, some thicker towards parts of thicker rain towards parts of shetland. This cloud, as well, stretching from southwest england midlands england into wales, the midlands parts of east anglia will give some spells of rain at times brighter southeast. And brighter to the southeast. And here temperatures lifting to around celsius elsewhere. Around 2324 celsius elsewhere. Generally the high teens to low 20s. So on the warm side for the 20s. So on the warm side for the time of year, frontal time of year, this frontal system tries to move a little further south and eastwards as we through this evening we go through this evening into the early clear spells the early hours, clear spells generally elsewhere still a scattering of showers across Northern Ireland and particularly scotland. Particularly northwest scotland. Some the heavy side. Some of these on the heavy side. The picking up here, too. The winds picking up here, too. And for most temperatures are largely staying in double figures. Night across figures. And a warm night across the where it will be the far south where it will be quite a cloudy start to monday morning. Some outbreaks of light rain and drizzle. And then through this frontal through the day, this frontal system a little system starts to push a little further again and further north again and reactivate. So well see spells of england and of rain across england and wales. Be some brighter wales. Therell be some brighter interludes at times too. Some of that be heavy, that rain could be heavy, perhaps later on in perhaps thundery later on in the day and temperatures getting into 20s. Joined by dame into the low 20s. Joined by Dame Priti Patel , former home priti patel, former home secretary and mp for witham. Secretary and mp for witham. Nice to see you. Good morning. Newly named. I saw you at windsor castle. Was it Princess Anne . It was. It must have been lovely. It was just incredible. L really humbling. You were wearing bright pink. You were wearing bright pink. Lovely. You yes. And lovely. And you know, was with lot of people know, i was with a lot of people that have given a huge amount to the we Public Service the country. We Public Service frontline individuals. So its incredibly humbling. Incredibly humbling. Congratulations. Thank well, congratulations. Thank you. Straight you. Lets get straight into conference because i am conference matters because i am intrigued. Theres a little bit of making on. Of mischief making going on. I think, among some tories. Can we include you in that simply because youve signed this letter along with liz truss and duncan smith and others about tax and youre saying to the chancellor, you put up chancellor, if you put taxes up again, we will not support you. And you add up all the and if you add up all the numbers, you know, you could actually the actually challenge the government be actually challenge the gt pretty|ent be actually challenge the gnpretty effective be actually challenge the gnpretty effective rebellion. Be a pretty effective rebellion. Meanwhile we hear members of the conservative democratic organisation, no names are being named, but theyre quoted in the papers having written on papers as having written on Whatsapp Groups, things like the pms got the charisma of a door whats going on here . Pretty. I mean , youre meant to be a nest mean, youre meant to be a nest of singing birds ahead of conference, of singing birds ahead of conwell, e, of singing birds ahead of conwell, look , camilla, i think well, look, camilla, i think youve been to youve been youve been to conferences many, many times and you know me well enough in terms of my instincts and im a grass roots activist first and foremost. I actually think Party Conference should our conference should be about our members. So first all, youve members. So first of all, youve asked , are we making mischief . Asked, are we making mischief . The answer is no. To the point about tax pledge is that about the tax pledge is that this is now our last conference before a general election. I before a general election. I think and i think think its right. And i think the actually the other thing is actually theres more unity amongst conservative mps that conservative backbench mps that we must have a conservative vision on and an Ambitious Programme and platform to go into the next general election that importantly differentiate us from labour. Well, we are gove is suggesting that there should be tax cuts, but i suppose the economists will asking economists will be asking where does come from . The does the money come from . The government Boris Johnson government under Boris Johnson and under rishi with and now under rishi sunak with furlough and all the rest of it has spent too much money. Size of the state we know the size of the state has grown far too much, but i also think we have to look at quite a few things actually. One is overall of taxation is the overall rate of taxation and there was the ifs report that published on friday and that was published on friday and actually it was a very good report. It was detailed report report. It was a detailed report that showed the share of public spending. Grown spending. The state has grown more than the tax receipts that are into government. Are coming into government. So what do we cut . Which departments we do . Departments do we do . Well, every we cut . Well, every department can cut the department can take a cut the Home Department can take a cut the horso last ill give you so last year ill give you the one example. Last year before i left the home office, i gave the police a pay home office, i gave the police a pay and was part pay increase and that was part funded back room from funded from back room from the Actual Office budget. And i Actual Home Office budget. And i think that to come think more of that needs to come home. We also need to theres a lot of work we need to do in government, though. Camilla as well. You about well. When you think about the way weve got way society is going, weve got a people that are not in a lot of people that are not in work, that are not actually being supported to get into work. A former employment work. Im a former employment minister part the minister and i was part of the team brought in universal team that brought in universal credit. Brought big credit. We brought in big changes to the welfare. Do we need do more with universal need to do more with universal credit . We must give people more support. Weve got to make people weve to people productive. Weve got to help get back. Help people get back. You think its a post covid thing people are not thing that people are just not willing into the willing to go back into the workforce . Are you saying people are saying . Are lazy . What are you saying . Saying but again, if saying that . But again, if you at the ifs report, you look at the ifs report, there are some shocking projections even by projections in there, even by the around the number of the obr around the number of people by 2028 and people going fonnard by 2028 and in working age will in future years working age will end claiming benefits. Yeah, end up claiming benefits. Yeah, we find which we we need to find ways in which we can them because we can support them because we cant always say its the cant always say its fine, the state is going to step in, the state is going to step in, the state step absolutely state should step in. Absolutely for that help for people that need that help and net, which is and that safety net, which is what universal credit has. Do you think the state is stepping too so i do. Stepping in too much . So i do. Absolutely thats i absolutely do. And thats thats us in government. Thats down to us in government. But also its up to us as conservatives in government to put fonnard alternate lviv, put fonnard the alternate lviv, the alternative that gives hope, opportunity aspiration back opportunity and aspiration back to the British Public so that they know theyve got Economic Security about as well, hope and aspiration. Do you think that your predecessor, Suella Braverman , predecessor, Suella Braverman, is and aspiration is spreading hope and aspiration by multiculturalism is spreading hope and aspiration by failed multiculturalism is spreading hope and aspiration by failed . Multiculturalism has failed . So look, i think, first of all, im going to just say that, you know, the job of home secretary is a very difficult job. Do you think shes doing a good job . Well she shes spoken shes given a speech this week. And, you know, shes shes right to speak about a range of issues. But do you agree on that multiculturalism aspect . Because people will say youve got a lot in both you. Youre in common, both of you. Youre both children of immigrant parents. Were not on our own. Were not on our own. No, indeed. You both home secretary mums, look. No, no, look, look at the diaspora communities that we have our country. Its not have in our country. Its not about Suella Braverman and its not me. No, about Suella Braverman and its not me. No, this about not about me. No, this is about our country. You know, im the first our country up. First to talk our country up. Im the first to talk success up in our country. We are an amazing and were amazing country and were an amazing country and were an amazing home people, quite amazing home to people, quite frankly, that have chosen to make lives the united make their lives in the United Kingdom. Here in kingdom. Were here in manchester, which is home to many people from black many people from the black community who left hong kong in recent years. Theyre recent years. Theyre integrated. Are loads integrated. There are loads of people, millions of people contributing to our country suella being too negative. Mean, been then. I mean, shes been accused of dogwhistle politics, politics. I think some context around some remarks. You know, some of her remarks. You know, its. Will give its important. So i will give some context and examples. There are parts of the country we saw , we saw disruption, Community Tensions in leicester last year. Yes you cant just say thats not because people have an integrated people there want jobs. They want hope. And desperation. They need desperation. They also need their local councils and local government to work well for them. Labour mayor, quite frankly in leicester has not been working them, not been working well for them, not delivering people. These are delivering for people. These are the things we have the types of things that we have to and quite frankly, to address. And quite frankly, as conservatives in government, thats where be thats where we should be focusing on. I do think when focusing on. And i do think when you net contribution you look at the net contribution of our immigrant communities and diaspora the United Kingdom , diaspora to the United Kingdom, wed be seeing the range of wed not be seeing the range of foreign investment. Look foreign direct investment. Look at india and at countries like india and investors, for example, people from parts of the world, from other parts of the world, asia the states come asia, the United States come into country , even africa. Into our country, even africa. And what do you think the home secretary was doing . Was it a tilt at leadership . Was it a tilt at leadership . I mean, look, should i mean, look, you should ask her, you should. Her, camilla. You really should. Have her were delighted to have her on. Want to come on. On. If you want to come on. I speak to you next week. I think actually, lets lets just again, know, just look at context. Were less than a year away from a general election. Giving speeches none of speeches is fine, but none of thatis speeches is fine, but none of that is a substitute for action and delivery. And if you look around the hall, and delivery. And if you look around the hall , this area today around the hall, this area today , the pledges are there. You , the pledges are there. You know, the government. Are you frustrated that you think its too many words are not enough action from this government . Its delivery. Therell election next yean yeah the british people judge the british people will judge this government on delivery. The five pledges, for example , is five pledges, for example, is one of them. Lets have less talk and focus on actually stopping the boats. I mean, 24,000 have come over stopping the boats. I mean, 24,cyear. Have come over stopping the boats. I mean, 24,cyear. Its have come over stopping the boats. I mean, 24,cyear. Its a have come over stopping the boats. I mean, 24,cyear. Its a difficultne over this year. Its a difficult issue. I know been there. Issue. I know ive been there. Yes. Always said theres no yes. Ive always said theres no one single solution but be pragmatic, find pragmatic, be practical, find solutions , ones. We the solutions, ones. We have the Supreme Court hearing coming up for rwanda judgement. What for the rwanda judgement. What do you think on that . Because theres about the echr theres been talk about the echr today. I think all of the cabinet have been given a from have been given a line from number say, you know, number 10 to say, you know, everythings on table. Everythings on the table. I gather. Yes, i gather. Yes, i gather. Yeah. What what you think yeah. What what do you think should taken should be on the table and taken off . Ill give you my view. I cant speak for anyone in government. Im not in government. Im not in government. Number one. I support reform. I support reform. Comes echr, reform. When it comes to echr, i support reform of the un 51 convention, went to the convention, i went to see the head of the unhcr last year with the foreign foreign secretary from rwanda. When we announced our rwanda plan. But coming but our rwanda plan. But coming but lets be quite clear about this, right . So echr its not about the rights and the principles. The rights and the principles. This is about the interpretation by the court in strasbourg of judgements that go against our own laws, our own sovereign laws. And camilla, weve been here before. Do you remember prisoner rights . Yes. So you know, give him prisoners the right to vote. When you think about how that court intervened to Foreign National to stop Foreign National offenders being removed offenders from being removed from country, that is not from our country, that is not right. Laws are crystal right. Our laws are Crystal Clear about the removal and the deportation of fmos. So are you pro full withdrawal from it . So i we have to reform. You i think we have to reform. You can withdraw, but at the same time, is it about the rights or the principles or the interpretation . I dont think its right that the court in strasbourg is interfering in our domestic policies and in our laws, which is stopping actually a democratically elected government from implementing its own laws. And, you know, foreign own laws. And, you know, Foreign National offenders is just one example. Prisoner votes. David cameron was very clear about that at the time. Yes. We have been here many times before on that. The office has decided the home office has decided when comes to housing people when it comes to housing people in hotels, that they must in in hotels, that they must be in a three hotel or above. Do a three star hotel or above. Do you with that policy . You agree with that policy . Dont agree with that i dont agree with that policy. So could be in one policy. So they could be in one star, i go further than star, but i go further than that. Camilla and youve heard me say this before. Everyones heard me say this. We had a proposal the plan for to proposal in the new plan for to immigration build reception centres them greek centres. I called them greek style reception because style reception centres because they had detention facilities. They had detention facilities. And that people and its important that people that illegally are that come here illegally are detained. And yes, so theyre in detained. And yes, so theyre in a no hotels. I think first of all, because we have our laws, so our laws basically say you cant detain people unless you cant detain people unless you can remove people. But can actually remove people. But you in a reception you keep them in a reception centre, which the government could argue theyve got with sites in wethersfield and braintree in my local area. But its not the same its not its not the same because should be purpose because they should be purpose built where people can be tracked basically so that they cant abscond. Yeah, the cant abscond. Yeah, the government says people arent absconding, they absconding, but they are leaving. Need know what is leaving. We need to know what is happening people then happening with people and then you asylum you can process their asylum cases on site so individuals know what is happening. Othennise it just becomes a complete. So it sounds like you think that the home office under suella being too Suella Braverman is being too soft migrants . Well, soft on these migrants . Well, i dont think dont dont think the i dont i actually think the actually dont think the approach right. And as i approach is right. And as i said, ive a migrant camp in said, ive got a migrant camp in wethersfield district in wethersfield in my district in braintree quite braintree district. And quite frankly , we are its locally frankly, we are its locally local residents, our local councils are paying for this that its been opaque. Theres been no transparency on financial payments. So you know, politicians in government can make claims and statements saying Asylum Seekers are coming here and theyre using our nhs. In wethersfield we have a private contractor, even though our own local residents have no access to the nhs and cant get gp appointments and things of that nature. So i think the that nature. So i think the government has to be transparent about what going its not about what is going on. Its not being the being transparent. The department no , exactly ive department no, exactly what ive been this. Im department no, exactly what ive been this. Im in been saying about this. Im in Constant Contact with them. Im not getting straightfonnard answers, classic answers, but this is a classic case of people in government saying and doing saying one thing and doing something completely different. My view is, is that they should have had purpose built reception centres where basically i mean they couldnt build them that quickly, though, could they . Saying they youre saying you said they could they could have. Could have they could have. New plan when the new plan for immigration was government policy democratically policy under a democratically elected should elected government that should have and have come together. But you and i happened last year. I know what happened last year. They thrown the they be thrown out with the bathwater. And other people come bathwater. And other people come in they can. In think that they can. You saying the baby is boris . Actually, all our policies . Yeah. The policies of the yeah. So the policies of the 2019 manifesto have been taken away. That was a new plan for immigration being one of them. Where hear people in where do you hear people in government speaking up . Where do you hear people in gonou nent speaking up . Where do you hear people in gonou think speaking up . Where do you hear people in gonou think thatipeaking up . Where do you hear people in gonou think that the king up . Where do you hear people in gonou think that the problem you think that the problem with the current with rishi and the current cabinet is that theyve torn up the tory party manifesto. In with their the tory party manifesto. Interpretation . I with their the tory party manifesto. Interpretation . Yeah,their the tory party manifesto. Interpretation . Yeah, we r own interpretation . Yeah, we were elected in 2019 on the peoples priorities with very, very objectives that very clear objectives and that is the manifesto. Very clear objectives and that is the nmuststo. Very clear objectives and that is the nmust like watering you must like the watering down zero stuff that down of the net zero stuff that was the manifesto and has now was in the manifesto and has now slightly been down. Slightly been climbed down. You about that spoken to you about that previously. Know, cannot previously. You know, we cannot just on just run headlong on particularly now Inflation Inflation was double digit. Its now come down thankfully but also the time when theres a cost of living crisis where people, you know, are really struggling cannot more struggling. You cannot put more taxes on them. Camilla and this is a point net zero agenda was full of cost, greater Financial Burdens and more taxes on people. Has to stop. You people. That has to stop. You know, as conservatives, we meant to be on the side of hard working, hard pressed individuals, businesses and families. Is families. And this is effectively where we need to come to being much more effectively where we need to come quiteto being much more effectively where we need to come quite wrongg much more effectively where we need to come quite wrong on nuch more effectively where we need to come quite wrong on a ch more effectively where we need to come quite wrong on a number going quite wrong on a number of different levels. Would different levels. Well, i would like to a much more bold, like to see a much more bold, ambitious conservative agenda based on conservative principles, which is letting people keep more of their hard, hard earned cash. I want to us be out there. Party of law and order. Ive always stood up for that, actually. Well, lets speak about law and order, because i wrote a piece for the telegraph at the weekend that you retweeted, and it elianne murder it was about elianne and murder in croydon. And it really touched me. That girl. And i thought about their family and what be going through what they must be going through this and it was so this week. And it was so senseless and needless. Yes, that girl with her whole life, like children are the same. Like our children are the same. Are no words for what there are no words for what has happened. Had a whole life no, she had a whole life ahead of her. And i thought, what is this . What is this . Weve got children carrying weve now got children carrying these blades. The proceedings are active on case. So are active on this case. So lets go into the details of lets not go into the details of that. But in general, how do we get these off the streets get these blades off the streets and of teenagers hands . Get these blades off the streets ancso of teenagers hands . Get these blades off the streets ancso theresenagers hands . Get these blades off the streets ancso theres so gers hands . Get these blades off the streets ancso theres so much ands . Get these blades off the streets ancso theres so much here. So theres so much here. There much and no. There is just so much and no. One, this is the straightfonnard way , way fonnard. I mean, first way, way fonnard. I mean, first of all, the loss of that poor girl to her family. Yeah i mean, thatis girl to her family. Yeah i mean, that is devastating , that is devastating, incomprehensible. And ive spent too much time myself. Ive spent a lot of time with parents that have lost their children, aunts and uncles that lost their nieces and nephews. I mean, how many children my goodness. And its dreadful. Absolutely devastating. Have to devastating. And we all have to think her poor mother and her think of her poor mother and her family right now. Now, there are a of issues first a number of issues here. First of how is it these of all, how is it that these weapons being carried . Weapons are being carried . People on stop and people know my views on stop and search. Made it easier. I made search. I made it easier. I made it easier for police to conduct, stop and search. I think that absolutely has to happen. Stop stop and search. I think that abs search,1as to happen. Stop stop and search. I think that abs search, in to happen. Stop stop and search. I think that abs search, in myhappen. Stop stop and search. I think that abs search, in my view, n. Stop stop and search. I think that abs search, in my view, is stop and search, in my view, is a very, humane policy. It very, very humane policy. It helps save lives. Yeah, its helps to save lives. Yeah, its right that do more to right that we do more to absolutely weapons ban the absolutely get weapons ban the sale of these weapons to under eighteens. Be eighteens. So there should be more that and there is all more on that and there is all credit to the government. There is work taking place on serious weapons weapons, a weapons offensive weapons, a review of the offensive weapons act when i was home secretary we were moving into that area because wed obviously done a lot with the police give them lot with the police to give them more and more resources. More powers and more resources. But the the day, its but at the end of the day, its this culture of gangs and its this culture of gangs and its this culture of gangs and its this culture where basically young people feel that its okay to carry weapons. Theres to carry weapons. Yeah, theres something. Something else. And this just lack of and also this just lack of valuing lives. Valuing of other peoples lives. The point. And, you thats the point. And, you know, people thinking that know, young people thinking that they know, impose their they can, you know, impose their selves other people, selves on other people, disregarding or being disrespectful, not being caring or compassionate to others. Or compassionate to others. Is there a degree to which perhaps fatherlessness takes on a role here . Breakdown of family and community, of course. Of course. I also think the way and girls are treated way women and girls are treated. Theres a lot. Yeah, you know, theres a lot of that as well. Disrespect to girls and women. Ive seen some recent information on some data actually girlguiding where actually from girlguiding where young are really very, young girls are really very, very upset and fearful about their own safety , violence their own safety, violence against women and girls, a very big agenda. Certainly when i was in government, in fact, two years ago, it was at this conference. Yes, i announced the review into Sarah Everards appalling as you appalling murder as well, you know, greater action that know, and greater action that needed to follow then. And we had a big consultation lots had a big consultation and lots of yes i would of work took place. Yes i would really implore government to keep on, you know, really pursuing that. Think that the finally, do we think that the police just sort of police are not just sort of demoralised, but also so theyve lost of their authority. Lost some of their authority. The police have so the police have challenges. Theres no doubt about that. But ive always believed absolutely believed we should absolutely resource and back the resource the police and back the police. Have to have their police. We have to have their backs. We dont have the backs. If we dont have the backs. If we dont have the backs of cops, then quite backs of our cops, then quite frankly, easy frankly, its too easy for everyone else in society , everyone else in society, whether its the press and everyone else, just to run them down, around here. Down, look at them around here. They individuals they are incredible individuals standing out in the looking after us and policing this, policing us all. Thank you so much for your time morning. Its been time this morning. Its been lovely speaking to you at such an extended length well. An extended length as well. Lovely you in manchester. Lovely to see you in manchester. Do anywhere in do not go anywhere because in just im going to be just a minute im going to be speaking to Ben Riley Smith, my colleague the telegraph, colleague at the telegraph, whos brilliant Patrick Christys on gb news. Im gb news radio. Gb news radio. Welcome back to the Camilla Tominey show. Thank you for being with us this sunday morning live from the conservative Party Conference in manchester. Now more Michael Portillo, my gb news colleague, is back in paddington. Hes going from 11 am. Going to be on air from 11 am. Now, id love to hear from you in your capacity as a former defence secretary, as what youve of priti patel youve made of what priti patel had michael because had to say. Michael because shes what shes pretty critical of what the governments doing. I thought the most important thing said was that the thing that she said was that the government going to judged government is going to be judged on delivery and im that on delivery and im afraid that lots people in this country lots of people in this country think that nothing in this country works and government country works and the government isnt of anything, isnt in control of anything, not spending, the not hs2 spending, not the national service, not National Health service, not immigration, not inflation, not the economy. And if this government is going to be judged on delivery, that is going to be pretty bad news, i think. And the problem that people like pretty have and the others who have signed this letter about taxation is they call attention to the governments impotence. I mean, is it really a good idea to Start Talking about taxation now . Because i dont think the government is going to cut taxes between now and the election. Is it a good idea to keep talking about immigration when the government cannot deliver . Wont deliver on immigration . So these groups within the conservative party risk simply drawing attention to how poorly the government is doing on the issues on which its pledged to do better. Do better. Very good summary. Michael, who have you got coming up on the show today . Well, ive got Jonathan Sumption about well known controversialist, but hes coming to talk about the coming in to talk about the hundred years spent 43 hundred years war. He spent 43 years writing about a hundred years writing about a hundred years war. And hes coming to tell it today we are tell me about it today we are going to talking about suella going to be talking about Suella Braverman very briefly , braverman very, very briefly, ive got little debate about ive got a little debate about oil because rather oil because i get rather impatient with people who say, just what earth Just Stop Oil. What on earth would happen if we did Just Stop Oil shouldnt recognise what oil shouldnt we recognise what oil has done for the world . And start the conversation from there . And weve got a feature there . And weve got a feature on on a ballet in birmingham which is based on black sabbath. Goodness me. Sounds very intriguing. Sounds very intriguing. Michael looking fonnard to your show at 11. Thank you very much. Thanks, camilla. Now back in manchester. And im delighted to have extra special peoples have an extra special Peoples Panel today live from conference. Joined now lets conference. Im joined now lets get this right, michael mihai, mihai, jamila and ellis. Now youre all involved in the tory party. Youre a tory party member, jamila, youre hoping to be a tory mp fingers crossed. Ellis youre a councillor, ellis youre a tory councillor, i wolverhampton , i believe in wolverhampton, correct . So youre all at correct . Yeah. So youre all at conference now. Lets start with rishi. How think rishi sunak. How do you think hes doing . I think a well hes doing . Mihai i think a well its just shy of a year in the job, right . Hes, you know, hes, hes competent. Hes clearly had to competent. Hes clearly had to steer the ship of the party after, you know , tumultuous after, you know, tumultuous period, some of which as a result of the party itself, some of which was, you know, external to it. Yes i think some of the data coming out is showing that a lot of those key delivery messages is pretty much earlier are being delivered and theyre happening. So i think what you want to see at this conference is, is unity while also having diversity of ideas. Yes. And jamila, do we miss bofis yes. And jamila, do we miss Boris Johnson at this conference . Because its interesting, isnt it . This poll has narrowed between labour and the conservatives opinion were saying theyre now only ten points behind. There were 25 odd points behind. There were 25 odd in the summer. So things have got a bit better and obviously there is some big blonde bombshell missing at this conference. You think conference. Do you think delegates be upset about delegates will be upset about that it just calm delegates will be upset about that itjust calm and that or is it just keep calm and carry i think keep calm carry on . I think its keep calm and on. And carry on. Obviously, boris is a big character and he does bring a lot of energy him, but hes lot of energy with him, but hes not mp moment. I think not an mp at the moment. I think hes still a member. Yeah, it hes still a member. So yeah, it would always fun for him to would be always fun for him to be but i think rishi is be here, but i think rishi is doing a very good job and some on the right of the party have said hes got the charisma of door well, a bit harsh. Well, a bit harsh. Its a bit harsh, id say. So its a bit harsh. Ellis, what do your constituents where are, constituents where you are, a councillor in wolverhampton say about party . Are they about the tory party . Are they being or they annoyed being shy or are they annoyed theyre and theyre sitting back and thinking them to deliver theyre sitting back and tibiting them to deliver theyre sitting back and tibit more them to deliver theyre sitting back and tibit more of them to deliver theyre sitting back and tibit more of what1em to deliver theyre sitting back and tibit more of what we| to deliver theyre sitting back and tibit more of what we want,liver a bit more of what we want, throw us a bit more red meat and well come back out. Whats the situation . Yeah, think there is a lot yeah, i think there is a lot of that. Mean obviously of that. I mean obviously wolverhampton, you know, its a red wall seat. Immigration a red wall seat. Immigration is a massive concern. A massive concern. I mean, a lot of hotels in our city centre of our hotels in our city centre are being used to are actually being used to accommodate seekers. Are actually being used to accomihowse seekers. Are actually being used to accomihows that seekers. Are actually being used to accomihows that goneieekers. Are actually being used to accomihows that gone down . So hows that gone down . So hows that gone down . Well, i mean its not, its not good for anybody. Mean, not good for anybody. I mean, its for the asylum its not good for the Asylum Seekers. Not good for the seekers. Its not good for the city, its not good for the local economy. You know, we really see that, you really want to see that, you know, that sort of policy know, that sort of hotel policy coming really, coming to an end really, because, you know, we actually want know, visitors be want you know, visitors to be using hotels, asylum using the hotels, not Asylum Seekers. Issue is seekers. So that issue is obviously huge concern to obviously a huge concern to people. Just up people. I think just picking up on said, you know, on what michael said, you know, people starting to see that people are starting to see that actually rishis plan is starting terms starting to bear fruit in terms of, know, inflation is of, you know, inflation is starting to come down. You know, the is starting to turn. The tide is starting to turn. People wolverhampton, the people of wolverhampton, like on the like the climb down on the climate i think i would climate stuff. I think i would say broadly that is popular. Climate stuff. I think i would say i roadly that is popular. Climate stuff. I think i would sayi mean, that is popular. Climate stuff. I think i would sayi mean, that iyou pular. It i mean, look, you know, it has to be a sensible, pragmatic approach. I mean, everyone supports, you moving supports, you know, moving to net carbon net zero and reducing carbon emissions, but it emissions, of course, but it cant on the backs of cant be done on the backs of the poor. Yes, we have a lot of deprivation and wolverhampton and dont want deprivation and wolverhampton an see dont want deprivation and wolverhampton an see more dont want deprivation and wolverhampton an see more taxes. Dont want deprivation and wolverhampton an see more taxes. They ont want deprivation and wolverhampton an see more taxes. They dontant to see more taxes. They dont want to see their costs going up. You know, so think it up. Yeah you know, so i think it is pragmatic nihar, youre is a pragmatic nihar, youre from originally. From romania originally. I know youve here for i know youve been here for a long youre a british long time. Youre a british citizen now. I understand, more than congratulations. Than ten years. Congratulations. Welcome. Immigration than ten years. Congratulations. Wnobviously immigration than ten years. Congratulations. Wnobviously thorny gration is obviously a really thorny topic conservatives. Topic for the conservatives. Youve got people accusing suella one hand of Suella Braverman on one hand of dog whistle politics. Do you agree she mishandling agree with that . She mishandling this patel this situation . Priti patel didnt exactly give her a good review. I wouldnt have called her a speech thoughtful as as michael put i think put it. I think i think immigration is good if hes controlled and it comes. But i think its a fraud. I think people need to take a step back here. And i came to the uk in 2006, so that was pre romania joining the eu. But after the joining the eu. But after the large 2000 enlarged, right, we had ten Eastern European countries joining and at the time and thats nothing to do with Asylum Seekers but its more broadly about immigration at a time the Labour Government decided to open up the border straight away, which a lot of other European Countries didnt. Talks about that. And no one talks about that. France germany controlling france and germany controlling for another years. Think for another seven years. I think in hindsight was a mistake. In hindsight that was a mistake. So i think immigration is good if controlled and keeps the if its controlled and keeps the fabric of communities. If its controlled and keeps the fabric of communities. The fabric of communities. The speech in washington, i think its unfortunate in some of its statements. Yeah, you didnt like, i think as well the kind of reference to people claiming persecution on the ground of their sexuality. Persecution on the ground of the you xuality. Persecution on the ground of the you thought that was a bit you thought that was a bit much. 1200 people out of which 55 are ugandans, waits Death Penalty to be prosecuted. So penalty to be prosecuted. So i dont think that was the right thing to pick up on. No , perhaps a bit went a bit no, perhaps a bit went a bit too far. Too far. Jamila, i spoke to you at jamila, now i spoke to you at an event we met, didnt we, in the house commons a couple of the house of commons a couple of weeks said you were weeks ago, and you said you were a young conservative. And i said, that bit of an said, isnt that a bit of an oxymoron whats whats whats oxymoron on whats whats whats going young going on here . Youre a young conservative, why and conservative, jamila. Why and what attracts you to the party and what are you hoping to do . Well, well, im hoping to reform the welfare state. Thats like big legacy. Hopefully like my big legacy. Hopefully but im a but my the reason im a conservative is because i believe should be able believe that you should be able to should people to to we should empower people to empower dont empower themselves. I dont believe too reliant on believe in being too reliant on the state. And i think were getting into a dangerous situation, especially post covid, where people are always looking government fix looking to the government to fix their dont their problems. And i dont think its right solution. Think its the right solution. And think sometimes we feel and i think sometimes we feel the pressure kind of do what the pressure to kind of do what they do. But they want us to do. But sometimes got to remind sometimes weve got to remind everyone that the conservative way isnt about us way fonnard isnt isnt about us just and giving and giving. Very answer from all very quick answer from all three you, because were three of you, because were running time. Chances of running out of time. Chances of the of ten winning the tories out of ten winning the tories out of ten winning the next general election. Mihai. 6 to 7 9. 5. I love that optimism. Ellis seven higher optimism. Ellis seven higher than we think. Perhaps yeah. All right. Lovely to see you all. No doubt well bump into each other as the course of the Conference Goes on. Hope to not see you too drunk at the Midland Hotel later, which is the place where everyone hangs here in the everyone hangs out here in the evenings. The way. Weve evenings. By the way. Now, weve still lot more to come, so still got a lot more to come, so dont because in dont go anywhere, because in just im going to be just a minute im going to be joined by my telegraph colleague, the top political journalist, his journalist, Ben Riley Smith. His new the beans on the new book spills the beans on the last years conservative last 13 years of conservative government for having government pity him for having to be company right through until 7 00 this evening. Gb news the peoples. Channel well , come peoples. Channel well, come back to the Camilla Tominey show live from the conservative Party Conference in manchester. Yeah, its a little bit of a busmans holiday now because im here with my telegraph colleague Ben Riley Smith, written Ben Riley Smith, whos written this book. The this brilliant book. Hes the Political Editor the Political Editor at the telegraph, and the book is called to rule poor called the right to rule poor old ben. Mean, what a task you old ben. I mean, what a task you have had to go over the last 13 years, crush where to even begin . What im intrigued by, we start another conference. As you know, theres fighting going on left, right and centre. I receive memo overnight receive a memo overnight slagging gove, slagging off michael gove, reminding is a net reminding me that he is a net zero right from an zero zealot right from an anonymous okay then anonymous sender. Okay then weve got this Whatsapp Group being exposed for calling rishi sunak somebody with the charisma of a door. Weve got liz truss bringing up the rear saying we cant have any more tax rises. Cant have any more tax rises. Are they a united party . Have they ever been . Ben we what is it with this lot . Well, theres certainly not a united party right now. I think rishi sunak sunak did quite a good job that first year of good job in that first year of stabilising things, papering stabilising things, of papering over i think over the cracks because i think all whether you dislike over the cracks because i think all or whether you dislike over the cracks because i think all or likehether you dislike over the cracks because i think all or like him, r you dislike over the cracks because i think all or like him, they dislike over the cracks because i think all or like him, they accepted rishi or like him, they accepted that last year. These two overhauls look bad with the public, smooth things public, so they smooth things oven public, so they smooth things over. There are huge over. But no, there are huge cracks it. And then cracks beyond it. And then coming youre to see coming days youre going to see them tax on illegal them emerge on tax on illegal immigration and whether to pull out the echr. So yeah, there are deep divisions. And when you are 15, behind in the 15, 20 points behind in the opinion as they are right opinion polls as they are right now, according one now, maybe ten, to according one today, looks a little bit today, which looks a little bit more hopeful. Think that the but why do you think that the conservatives pick conservatives cant pick a leader stick with them . Leader and stick with them . I mean, extra ordinary, mean, it is extra ordinary, isnt leaders since isnt it . Five leaders since 2016 . Well, one of the fun bits in the book was trying to get to all these key players and ask them that question. So i got to 120 plus people. Bofis so i got to 120 plus people. Boris johnson, liz truss, David Cameron, various others. And one thing was the thing that came out was the tories more in tories are more ruthless in their of than their pursuit of power than laboun their pursuit of power than labour. I and have the labour. I think, and have the structures to shape up, shift what they mean to the public. You takes 15 of you know, it only takes 15 of their mps to trigger a no confidence vote in labour. Its 20 and theyve all got do it 20 and theyve all got to do it on. Ed so they have on the record. Ed so they have a structure that if they feel the pubuc structure that if they feel the public moving against them, public are moving against them, they rid of leader and they can get rid of a leader and change quickly. Yeah, change quite quickly. Yeah, i think weve seen think thats what weve seen over the couple years over the last couple of years and that is different from laboun priti patel referred to it as throwing the baby out with the bathwater she the bathwater earlier. She meant the deposing Boris Johnson. Deposing of Boris Johnson. I also asked michael gove, you know, regret moment know, did he regret that moment when him back in 2016 . When he knifed him back in 2016 . Had he not have knifed him, things have really things could have been really different. Mean, do we see different. I mean, do we see that as the catalyst to the destruction that followed . Because some times you try and trace all of the roads of kind of tory turmoil back to something . Yeah, it sort of does seem to lead back to that that moment. Moment. Think the big moment, well, i think the big moment, i was accidental i suppose, was an accidental brexit. If you like. The uk brexit. If you like. Yes, the uk government want it to government didnt want it to happen the time. Happen at the time. David cameron, george osborne, the pubuc cameron, george osborne, the public voted and then public voted for it and then suddenly you had the economic and tossed the suddenly you had the economic an and tossed the suddenly you had the economic an and was tossed the suddenly you had the economic an and was in tossed the suddenly you had the economic an and was in that sed the suddenly you had the economic an and was in that scrambles air and it was in that scramble that followed that you got these betrayals. Know, michael betrayals. You know, if michael gove on boris gove hadnt turned on Boris Johnson leadership race johnson in the leadership race right referendum, right after that referendum, probably Boris Johnson would have Prime Minister, have become Prime Minister, probably the roots would probably the grass roots would have brexiteer and have picked a brexiteer and then maybe would have had he maybe you would have had he would had ability to would have had the ability to pushit would have had the ability to push it through parliament. Maybe won next maybe he would have won the next election. Where election. That came where theresa may should have won. Really. Was miles ahead. Really. She was miles ahead. Yes. Lost. But no, think yes. And lost. But no, i think brexit kind seismic brexit is the kind of seismic moment this years, the moment in this 13 years, the before after point. And its before and after point. And its since brexit. You know, cameron was leader for 11 was in power tory leader for 11 years before that. And then you had three had these kind of three successive in 6 or successive changes in 6 or 7 years. So certainly that kind of scrambling the snowglobe scrambling of the snowglobe of politics, this has had all these repercussions it. Politics, this has had all these reprhat ions it. Politics, this has had all these reprhat do 5 it. Politics, this has had all these reprhat do you it. Politics, this has had all these reprhat do you make of some what do you make of some suggestions in the week that liz truss eyeing up second bid . Truss is eyeing up a second bid . Should go wrong for the should it all go wrong for the tories next general election . Ben i dont think she genuinely thinks she can be leader minister again, leader or Prime Minister again, but thinks she but i do think she thinks she can who will be the next can shape who will be the next Prime Minister or leader again. And why shes championing Prime Minister or leader again. Andkind why shes championing Prime Minister or leader again. Andkind ohoy shes championing Prime Minister or leader again. Andkind of sideihes championing Prime Minister or leader again. Andkind of sideihetheiampioning Prime Minister or leader again. Andkind of sideihethe argumentg the kind of side of the argument that believes in the tax that she believes in the tax cutting, the scaling back of regulations, because me, it regulations, because to me, it seems got one on seems like shes got one eye on what could happen late next year if election. There if they lose an election. There is race. She wants is a leadership race. She wants those and side of those policies and that side of the prevail. Despite the to party prevail. Despite what happened last autumn. And think cincinnatus and do you think cincinnatus bofis and do you think cincinnatus boris to come back some boris wants to come back at some point, return from his plough and up power . And take up power . Im sure he is given the im sure if he is given the snapshot. Mean, saw it last snapshot. I mean, we saw it last yean snapshot. I mean, we saw it last year, right . He was out of downing street for Something Like six yes, seven like six weeks. Yes, seven weeks. Still tried to come weeks. And still tried to come back. If there was back. So im sure if there was possibly a way do it, he possibly a way to do it, he would. I mean, there are quite a few steps there now. Hes got somehow get back into parliament. Doubt parliament. So i doubt its imminent. Its imminent. I dont think its going to be in the next race. But sure keeping half but im sure hes keeping half an it. He said when he an eye on it. He said when he was leaving, im stepping away from parliament for now. So i think if there was ever the opportunity, jump opportunity, he would jump at it. How do you think rishi sunak is saying to nigel is doing . I was saying to nigel nelson i think in nelson earlier, i think hes in a better position now than he was six months ago. Can he Gain Momentum . Hear from was six months ago. Can he gain mo people . . Hear from was six months ago. Can he gain mo people . Hes hear from was six months ago. Can he gain mo people . Hes very hear from was six months ago. Can he gain mo people . Hes very confident, m his people . Hes very confident, hes bullish. He thinks they can win election is, win whenever the election is, which do think, which is when do you think, spnng which is when do you think, spring or autumn . I still think its autumn. I dont quite understand the rationale be rationale for why would be spring. Mean, liken it to spring. I mean, i liken it to a man with a guillotine above hanging above their neck and kind snipping the kind of willingly snipping the rope. Are so rope. You know, if you are so far behind, why dont you think give it a couple of months and maybe something come maybe something will come up. You know, an argument you know, theres an argument for lasted longer for Boris Johnson lasted longer as minister because as Prime Minister because ukraine out from ukraine war happened out from the field calmed the left field and it calmed tory nerves because they had to rally the minister. Rally behind the Prime Minister. Misplaced optimism but is it misplaced optimism for you think, for rishi sunak . Do you think, or chance they could or is there a chance they could actually this . Or is there a chance they could act|well, this . Or is there a chance they could act|well, neveri . Or is there a chance they could act|well, never say never, no. Well, never say never, no. You know, in 2017, theresa may was miles miles, miles ahead of jeremy corbyn, ended up jeremy corbyn, and she ended up at end that campaign at the end of that campaign losing i losing the tory majority. I mean, think what they really mean, i think what they really think in on think is if you zoom in on specific policy areas rather than just loosely thinking about politics, draw these politics, they can draw these dividing have the dividing lines that have the electorate side electorate the right side of them and labour. So net zero drive is possibly trans issues, possibly tax cuts later down the line. Well is it as simple as that . You know, clarify by whether or not a woman can have a penis, scrap iht bring Corporation Tax down, carry on with the climate , climb down, do a couple of other things that are good for the righties and everything will be okay. Well, the problem is on the big stuff they classically run on, you have a problem because normally its economic competence front and centre in a tory re election that tory re election bid and that has away after the has drifted away after the debacle in the autumn and the changes the market. So the changes on the market. So the strategists are scrabbling around trying to pick things that they zoom they that if they zoom in on, they can labour on on that. Can beat labour on on that. Do we think rishi sunak is happy hunt . I say this happy with hunt . I say this because again, there were some whispers week, you whispers in the week, you know whats relationship like . Whats their relationship like . Because and because its not osborne and cameron, it . Cameron, is it . No. And point one is i write in book jeremy hunt was not in the book jeremy hunt was not rishi sunak first thats right. He was having he had to be oh, by the way, youre oh, told, by the way, youre going keep this guy going to have to keep this guy to keep the markets happy and sunak, i thought showed a sunak, which i thought showed a bit political naivety, sort bit of political naivety, sort of hadnt considered of went, oh, i hadnt considered that. Think, yeah, won that. I think, yeah, if hed won in that summer, i think the names that were knocking around were john glenn. These types of figures who are very close to rishi for that spot. But he came after the spot. But he came in after the second next year, which was second race next year, which was all markets, all about calming the markets, calming party. If you had calming the party. If you had a chancellor switching chancellor there, switching the chancellor, thought chancellor, i think they thought it would too of of an it would be too much of a of an upheaval. Think they quite upheaval. I think they are quite like minded. Theyre both kind of tories who of moderate, centrist tories who believe in fiscal responsibility. But yeah, certainly he had certainly true that if he had a clean slate in the summer, he wouldnt picked hunt for wouldnt have picked hunt for the on sunak the truth and on sunak to finish. Who is this guy really . Ben, who is this guy really . I mean, you look at his maiden speech, its thatcherite. Speech, its very thatcherite. He brexiteer, he says, i am a brexiteer, although didnt do that much although he didnt do that much kind high profile kind of high profile campaigning. Claims campaigning. Hes like claims to be a conservative, sometimes be a conservative, but sometimes he very well disguised. He keeps it very well disguised. Yeah, in the and yeah, well, in the telegraph, the weekend, we telegraph, at the weekend, we interviewed oliver dowden, deputy pm, but also close interviewed oliver dowden, de rishi pm, but also close interviewed oliver dowden, de rishi and but also close interviewed oliver dowden, derishi and he also close interviewed oliver dowden, derishi and he said, close interviewed oliver dowden, derishi and he said, look, lose interviewed oliver dowden, derishi and he said, look, thee to rishi and he said, look, the truth is this guy is much, much, much of a traditional low tax, low regulation tory than sometimes on. And sometimes he might let on. And i think autumn you will see think this autumn you will see the rishi beginning to think this autumn you will see the uplishi beginning to think this autumn you will see the uplishi say, nning to think this autumn you will see the uplishi say, look, to think this autumn you will see the uplishi say, look, im not stand up and say, look, im not just an administrator here. I do have ideology. All right, have some ideology. All right, lets the another lets give the book another plug. Lets give the book another plu look, brilliant, says andrew look, brilliant, says andrew marr. Good. Right marr. It must be good. The right to thats by ben to rule. Thats by Ben Riley Smith its out all riley smith and its out in all good bookshops now, and its a right read. Its brilliant. Right good read. Its brilliant. Thank you, ben, with thank you, ben, for being with this morning. Know youre this morning. I know youre going very, busy going to have a very, very busy conference. As said to stephen conference. As i said to stephen fimms conference. As i said to Stephen Timms, going to be at the timms, were going to be at the labour Party Conference next week liverpool, here week in liverpool, but from here in manchester been in manchester its been emotional. So emotional. Ive enjoyed it so far, so good. On tech far, so good. On the old tech technical i were technical front, i think were doing right. And we had doing all right. And we had michael advocating news michael gove advocating gb news survival, a good survival, so thats a good thing, lovely to see thing, too. Lovely to see you all. Thank you for being with me. Of course, portillo me. Of course, Michael Portillo is up next at 11 00 and is back up next at 11 00 and ill see you next week, 930 in liverpool. Liverpool. Hello there. Im greg jewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. We do have rain in the forecast over the coming days, but therell be some bright spells at times too, and temperatures generally on the warm side, particularly as we head towards next weekend. Pressure next weekend. Low pressure generally dominating the pressure over the next pressure pattern over the next few days, bringing spells of rain. But eventually high rain. But eventually High Pressure start move in pressure should start to move in by of the week. This by the middle of the week. This afternoon, we do have bright spells Northern Ireland, spells across Northern Ireland, scotland scattered scotland with a few scattered showers here, thicker rain showers here, some thicker rain towards parts of shetland. This cloud, as well, stretching from southwest england into wales, the parts of east the midlands, parts of east anglia will give some spells of rain brighter to the rain at times brighter to the south east. And here temperatures lifting to around 2324 elsewhere, 2324 celsius. Elsewhere, generally the high teens to low 20s. So on the warm side for the 20s. So on the warm side for the time of year, frontal time of year, this frontal system tries to move a little further south and eastwards as we go through this evening into the early hours. Clear spells generally elsewhere, still a scattering across scattering of showers across northern particularly Northern Ireland, particularly northwest. Some of northwest scotland. Some of these on the heavy side. The winds here, too. And winds picking up here, too. And for temperatures, largely for most temperatures, largely staying figures. And a staying in double figures. And a warm night across the far south where it will be quite a cloudy start to morning. Some start to monday morning. Some outbreaks of light rain and drizzle and through the drizzle and then through the day, frontal system starts day, this frontal system starts to little further north to push a little further north again. So again. And reactive out. So well see spells of rain across England Wales. Therell be england and wales. Therell be some interludes at some brighter interludes at times, that rain times, too. Some of that rain could heavy, perhaps could be heavy, perhaps thundery later in the and later on in the day and temperatures getting into the low later. Later. Good morning. And welcome to sunday with Michael Portillo. A sunday with Michael Portillo. A two hour weekend ramble through arts culture, politics and debate. The scene has been set for the conservative Party Conference in manchester today, but not by the Prime Minister so much as by the home secretary, Suella Braverman, arguably the most cabinet minister, most outspoken cabinet minister, has interventions on has launched interventions on the refugee convention. Multiculturalism and the European Court of human rights. Is she charting a course for the future of conservatism or bidding to lead her party . Thankfully, englands messy entanglement with europe is a good deal less than it used to be. Lord Jonathan Sumption will join me in the studio to talk about the hundred years war, which encompassed the battle of agincourt and joan of arc. His fifth volume on the war titled triumph and tragedy, concludes over 40 years of work by the former Supreme Court justice and history scholar and describes the collapse of english power in france. The fruits of english france. The fruits of english soil were tragically despoiled in northumbria. And this week, in northumbria. And this week, a centuries old sentinel of hadrians wall, a beautiful sycamore tree, was illegally felled in the dead of night, a 16 year old and a man in his 60s have been arrested. Well speak to a photographer for whose images of the tree captured its spiritual grandeur. The grand spiritual grandeur. The grand century of londons theatre scene. Stefan kyriazis will be here to update me on four shows that hes been to see this week, including a ballet in birmingham inspired by the citys heavy metal heroes. Later on,