U. S. Be going solo in its approach in dealing with china in terms of the economic and military superpower or work with allies in developing a grand new strategy . Joining me now to talk about that and more is the founder of the atlas foundation, jonathan ward, author of chinas vision of victory, and we are happy to have him this weekend. Jonathan, thank you so much for being with us. First off, give us your assessments of the china u. S. Relationship. We know that President Trump has certainly changed the conversation around china after all of the tariffs and the, and the look into chinas behavior on intellectual property theft. But this covid19 crisis took it even further. Tell us where we stand. Hi, maria. Its great to be back. First of all, this to covid chi sis this is to be a wakeup call for the United States. This has to be our sputnik moment when we come together as a nation, realize that we have a giant challenge on our hands and get ready for competition with a hostile superpower. A contest with china will be the toughest thing weve had to deal with since the early days of the ussr, possibly since the we secd world war. They seek to surpass us, become the dominant force on the planet, and we have to make sure that never happens. Above all, this is going to be an economic contest, so we must remain the largest and most dynamic economy. Thats number one, two and three in my mind. And the biggest question of where are americas ceos going to be, on the side and participating in a new american grand strategy, or are they going to continue to look for participation in the china market. Thats going to be really the question that decides the fate of the United States. Maria you know, when you look back at this covid19 crisis, coronavirus, you know, the Chinese Communist government knew about the coronavirus at the end 20619. We 2019. We understand they knew about it in november. And then in early december there was one doctor who said, look, we need to be wearing protective clothing because theres this very infectious, contagious disease. That doctor was silenced by the communist government. They arrested him, they told him to stop speak out. Unfortunately, he is now dead because of the coronavirus. And then so they, so they downplayed the virus, they went to davos, they went to the white house, shook everybodys hand as ive said a million times on this program to do a phase one deal, and then what happened next was really, in my mind, somewhat sinister. Because while chinas communist government was downplaying the virus, they were in the market cornering the market for the protective fear that the u. S. Needs so badly. So ive got some data in front of me, jonathan. Face masks, this category increased by 18fold from the four months preceding january 2020. They spent 18 million a month in september, october, november, december, and then in january 2020 they spent 335 million in both january is and february to buy masks. Theyre already the largest producer of this equipment. They actually produce half the worlds capacity in masks, and yet theyre in the market buying two billion additional masks in january. They bought goggles, they bought surge call gloves, oxygen therapy tanks. So all of this buying for the protective gear that we need in the United States while they were downplaying the virus. What was that about . The communist party was preparing to get ahead of this, i mean, realizing this would be ultimately a massive pandemic. And when you think about the fact that the virus originated in wuhan, even as they shut down flights to the rest of china to contain the spread in china, they alloweds from wu flights from wuhan to the rest of the world. Ultimately, the communist party wanted to be prepared to contain this thing both economically and from a Public Health standpoint even as it sort of, you know, went across the world, you know, affecting other nations from the United States to europe, to rest of the planet. So buying up masks, allowing, you know, travelers from china to go around the planet not only created a global pandemic, but it also is going to create a massive economic crisis. The amount of debt thats going to be added to the United States because of this, all of this is going to put us into crisis. And meanwhile, chinas trying to get its factories back in order and to open up its economy and to do this in addition to now advancing a narrative globally that says we are going to be the leader. Maria the broader issues dealing with china, we know their plans. They want to be the number one superyou are power. President donald trump wants to be the number one superpower. His whole thing is america first, make America Great again. How will these two nations have a partnership but also understand each others goals and American Companies understanding that when you work with the communist government, you are working against america . Well, economics, business and National Security have to come together. Its the only way out of this contest. And we have to remember that the worlds democracies are twothirds of global gross domestic product. So ultimately what were going to need is an alliancebased trading system. We want to be working, trading, Building Supply chains, investing, you know, exporting, importing all of that with our allies and not with hostile states. So if china is your Growth Strategy the, youre going to be at odds with the United States, ultimately. I mean, all of this is pouring money into the chinese government, into chinese stateowned enterprises, into tech company that are supporting surveillance of an oppression state. Youre liberally building americas adversary and making them stronger. So we really cant be investing in china the way that we have been, and we shouldnt be trading with china the way that we have been. We should be trading along agriculture, energy, consumer goods, cocacola, but we cant be improving their military which is design for combat with us in the pacific. Maria important points, jonathan. It is good to see you this weekend. Thank you so much, we will see you soon. Good to see you. Maria jonathan ward. Dont go anywhere, gene scalia, labor secretary, is up next. Back in a moment. In these uncertain times, look after yourself, your family, your friends. But know when it comes to your finances, we are here for you. What can i do for you today . Well take a look at the portfolio and make adjustments. Im free to chat if you have any more questions. Our j. P. Morgan advisors are working from home to help guide you through this. For more than 200 years, weve helped our clients navigate historic challenges. And we will get through this one. Together. Sprinting past every leak in our softest, smoothest fabric. Shes confident, protected, her strength respected. Depend. The only thing stronger than us, is you. Its a great escape. So many Great Stories from amazing people. It makes me want to be better. It changes your perspective. It makes you a different person. See what listening to audible can do for you. Maria welcome back. The coronavirus pandemic has devastated the jobs market. More than 26 million americans is have filed for Unemployment Benefits over the past month. That is more than all of the jobs added since 2008. What can be done to revitalize this economy and get america back to work . Joining me now to talk about that is the labor secretary for the United States, eugene scalia. Secretary scalia, it is wonderful to have you this weekend. Thanks for being here. Its good to be back, maria. Maria so we had another 4. 25 million upping Employment Benefits this week, taking that number to 26 million in the last month. Secretary, you also saw the durable goods numbers on a industrial basis, capex spending pulling back. How would you assess where we are right now in the economy . Well, the unemployment numbers that you described, maria, are very difficult to see. These are, as you said, more than 26 million americans just in the last five weeks that have filed for unemployment. And we recognize theyre make a sacrifice right now because of the Public Health measures that the Public Health authorities are telling us need to be taken to contend with the coronavirus. To its a challenging time for them. The president knows that, with we at the department certainly know that. We are working very closely with the states to help get those unemployment payments out. As you know, the cares act which the president signed at the end of march, that 2. 2 trillion relief bill includes some really important enhancements and educations pangses of Unemployment Benefits expansions. An additional 600 a week payment, coverage for independent contractors, uber drivers and the like, and were doing all that we can at the department to help the states who actually administer these programs, to help them get relief to American Workers. I will add this though maria yeah, what about that . Go ahead. Let me just we came into these job losses by a very different route than we have in past down turns. This was not because there was some really deepseeded, fundamental underlying economic problem. We had a very robust economy six weeks ago. Instead, this is a Public Health response which is causing very, very large and sudden job losses. But because of the way we came in, im hopeful theres a quicker way out as well, that we get the virus under control, beat it back and reopen. And well see jobs return. Maria so, so would you say that the current, based on the current Unemployment Benefits its equating to an Unemployment Rate of 13, 15, 16 . Which is it . Well, im not going to guess at a number with you, maria, but i will report a number i think on may 8. Thats when well put out what the national Unemployment Rate is according to our bureau of labor statistics. Whatever that number is, we know that its just higher than the president wants and the American People want and that we need to continue to take measures both to provide support to americans that have been put out of work and also do all that we can to reopen the economy. The president laid out a plan for that last week. Were seeing a number of states making their way toward that. And in the meantime, we also want to do what we can to keep employees attached to their employer. As you know, this week the Congress Passed and the president signed the paycheck protection legislation to refund that program. Its a program that ive been supportive of because i like the way it keeps employers and employees connected so that as were safe to reopen in various states, theyre better positioned to get back to work. Which is, we know, what people want to do. Maria some people feel like the Unemployment Benefits, the 600 that you just mentioned, is actually this flat fee cannot be one size fits all because depending on the state that youre in and depending on the rate that theyre making in terms of compensation, its actually creating more money to stay home than actually go to work. And thats what Lindsey Graham told me recently, that in his state, south carolina, now a person whos home could be making 23 an hour versus the 18 an hour that they work on the job. So while the president is trying to reopen the economy in the next couple weeks, why would anybody making more money to stay home rather than working going back to work . If im a worker at a restaurant or hotel, im sitting pretty until july 31st. So do you worry this is going to impact productivity, that the one size fits all is not appropriate given that it does encourage people to stay home . Well, there was a strong feeling in congress, and the president agreed, that it was important to provide real relief to American Workers that were being put out of work as a sacrifice to the national Public Health. And thats what that 600aweek, monthly enhancement was designed to do. It expires in july, its a shortterm measure to tide us over as we teal with coronavirus. It passed the senate unanimously, and so there was strong support for it. But youre right, there the needs to be care in how this program is administered. The state Unemployment InsuranceComputer Systems are incredibly old, some of them are 40 or even 50 years old, and theres very little flexibility in how those systems operate. Thats part of the reason the sum thats in the cares act, that 600 amount, was structured as a flat amount. But youre not entitled to unemployment if theres a job there for you. If your company says were reopened, come on back, wed like to have maria oh, i see. You need to come off that amount. Maria this is a very important point that you just made. Im really glad you made it because this is a word that needs to get communicated. Thank you for that. You said you support the Paycheck Program. This week, of course, we did see the congress sign off on it, President Trump going to be signing it into law. Let me take a quick break and and you about that, because a lot of that money in the first fran. Ran out in the first few days. I want to get your take when we come back. Secretary of labor eugene scalia. Stay with us, well b b b b b for many of our members, being prepared. Wont be a new thing. And it wont be their First Experience with social distancing. Overcoming challenges is what defines the military community. Usaa has been standing with them, for nearly a hundred years. And well be here to serve for a hundred more. Maria and we are back with labor secretary eugene scalia. I want to ask you about the Paycheck Program because, of course, we know that an additional 310 billion went into that program this week. The First Tranche of money ran out, it was so popular. So many Small Businesses wanted those loans, it ran out in a few days. How much of this new tranche of money is already committed, because im worried that this moneys going to run out again in the next couple of days. Well, maria, as you know, i am a big fan of the Paycheck Protection Program from the perspective of the Labor Department because its a way of helping workers, keeping them tied to their employer during this difficult period getting the virus under control so that once were ready to go back to work, the employees still is have jobs, the employers have been tided over and incentivized to keep their workers on payroll. The program is extremely popular, as you say. I think when you step back, there have been criticisms of it, but the largest criticism thats been made really is just how popular the program was. And so youre probably right that there are some funds that are already committed as we infuse another 310 billion into the program. Those figures are not kept at the Labor Department, obviously. The sba and treasury administer this program, but this is a really needed infusion for Small Businesses across the country and for their workers too. Maria when i was reporting on this, i heard from a lot of restaurant owners. The Restaurant Association contacted me as well, and they said, look, weve got to communicate this to the powers that be that this is not going to keep us in business. Yes, its great for the employees to be able to get a loan, get it forgiven. If 75 of that money goes out window to my employees but, number one, youre putting me on an eight week clock where the clock starts ticking as soon as i take the money and i dont have demand or business because were in a shutdown, thats number one, so im still going to go bankrupt as a Small Business each though my if employees got paid, and number two, theres not a lot of wiggle room in terms of how much i can pay for employees and how much i can use for basic stuff like rent and business expenses given the fact that, again, were in this shutdown, and i live by cash flow and have none right now. What do you want to tell Business Owners about that . Do you think youre going to look at this, can this be tweaked in terms of the rigidity, rigidness, rather, pardon me, of this plan . Well, one of the reasons this Program Stands out as a Great Success for the president , maria, is that it was stood up so quickly, in a week this program was stood up, and loan were being written. And two weeks later all the 350 billion that were allocated for the program had been claimed. And thats the sign of a very successful, large federal program, to get it in place and operating is so quickly and to achieve such popularity. That said, no large federal program especially one thats set up in a week is going to be flawless. There are enhancements that one makes along the way, and some were made in the very early days. Im sure that the treasury secretary and sba administrator are examining whether its appropriate to make any additional changes, and if so, theyll do it. Maria before you go, ive got to ask you about this thrift fund situation. This is something ive been talking a lot about on the air, the fact that the thrift fund which is the 401 k of our military past and present, 10 of that 500 billion fund is being earmarked towards the msci index, the Morgan Stanley world index. Im all about investing globally, but were talking about china in a different light today. Do we want our military men and women investing and funding chinas buildup of their military to eventually overtake the United States as the number one superpower . Well, youre talking about the thrift savings plan which is sort of the 401 k plan for federal workers. And its a, overseen by a board of directors. Theyre not part of the Labor Department. Thats not an Agency Within the Labor Department, but we do have an auditing and some degree of an Oversight Program for the thrift savings plan. The issue youre raising, yes, youve raised it in the past, and members of congress is are raised the question you have which is should the Investment Options in that plan include any form of indirect investments to entities in china that are engaged in some of the activities that you described. The questions have been raised, and i think as we contend with coronavirus and look toward the future, there are going to be a lot of questioned asked about supply chains, about our reliance, dependence, investments a abroad and perhaps particularly in china. Maria secretary, thanks so much for your time today, and thank you for your leadership, sir. Thank you, maria. Maria we will see you soon. Secretary gene and scalia. Dont go anywhere, more wall street right after this. Now more than ever, you need technology you can rely on. And people you can rely on. Im a Dell Technologies advisor. Me too. Me too. Me too. And if youre a Small Business, were with you. We are with you. Were with you. We want to help. So well be right here. At home. Answering your calls. Providing support. And standing by you every step of the way. Bye bye. In these uncertain times, look after yourself, your family, your friends. But know when it comes to your finances, we are here for you. What can i do for you today . Well take a look at the portfolio and make adjustments. Im free to chat if you have any more questions. Our j. P. Morgan advisors are working from home to help guide you through this. For more than 200 years, weve helped our clients navigate historic challenges. And we will get through this one. Together. Maria welcome back. Coming up next weekend on the program, dont miss it right here next weekend, weve got the president and ceo of the Dallas Federal Reserve bank, robert kaplan, my special guest amidst an extraordinary moment with all of this stimulus. Plus, this weekend join me for sunday morning futures, 10 a. M. Live, ill be talking with arkansas senator tom cotton and california congressman devin nunes, plus new york mayor de blasio. Sunday morning, 10 a. M. Eastern over on fox news. And right here on fox business, start smart weekdays 69 a. M. Eastern. We hope youll set the tone every weekday on mornings with maria. Thanks so much for being with me. Have a great rest of the weekend, ill see you next time. Gerry hello, and welcome to to wall street journal at large. Another week when most of the nation remains essentially furloughed, but there are growing signs the country might not be prepared to take much more of the damage the lockdown is inflicting on the economy. Across the nation thousands of protesters marched on state capitols to demand the right to get back to work, hoping to push government leaders to do what we know is necessary, yet america moving get america moving again. Much of the media claimed the protests were being