Transcripts For ESPRESO 20240703

It is very important to understand, mask, we now know, and was in direct contact with the kremlin all the time and he repeats the kremlins theses by and large, and we now know about it, now we are telling new biographies about him, he is just on the phone with the kremlin, he has his own business interests connected with russia, he really wants to launch programs related to space, Space Programs with russia, and apparently they are very, very easy to manipulate, as many wealthy and wealthy people are not very smart in politics, they are very easy to outwit. Of course, this has a huge influence , and i dont know if he plays any decisive role, well, as i say, he represents a very large block of opinions that are always against the norm, yes, if the norm is against ukraine, he will be for ukraine, if the norm is in favor of ukraine, he will be against ukraine, well, thats how he is, thats how he plays, thats how many people play such a role, but again, everything is very clear in sociology, yes, different studies are repeated, 75 of people support ukraine. For america to play an active role in europe, for america to be in nato, they want america to be able to calm the chaos, extreme support in america is 4 , yes, it means that there is no support at all, and everything is clear there , yes, i would have a problem with a friend, the problem is that the main message given by the American Leadership always consisted of the key phrase as long as it takes, we will support ukraine, it will take a long time, it was bidens main phrase, americans hate this phrase, ukrainians too, yes, yes, americans love a clear mission, plan, goal, think about american historical successes, and their favorite phrase mission accomplish, mission completed, and when something is like chewing gum, they stretch, it is not clear where and what and where, the americans suffer from it, so lets not be too paranoid about the mask and so on, lets think about how we and. And the vast majority in American Society, ukraine is considered the best to communicate with them, they do not like this phrase, and i like the inaccuracy, the idea that there is no plan, yes, they are ready to wait, not that there should be victory tomorrow, but they do not want to know how we are, where we are going and how we we are going there , well, i would really like the word victory to start sounding, we do not support something incomprehensible, but the word victory does not sound, they do not believe in our victory, what is the matter . I dont know, i think that these are very instinctively, very, very cautious people who are forcing america, they are not they are not pensioners, they are always a pawn ahead, putin is a pawn ahead of a pawn, well, in principle, their ideas are probably that the allies have more money than russia and in the end, russia will lose , they probably have some kind of vision, but it is them they dont like, especially to think about big. Goals and so on, thats their instincts, theyre like that, i understand, it doesnt even affect American Society like that, they like bright goals, big actions and heroism, but this, well, thats it , this generation of politicians, biden is like that, and the people around him, a little bit like that, they love, they want to be careful, they are careful, well, look, for maybe even half a year, even a year , it could be said that russian propaganda, well , it was, in principle, uh, well, somehow it didnt spread like that in the west, in the sense that the russian propagandists were absolutely not perceived, but now ukraine is already doing a lot of things right, for example, the americans were afraid that what musk was talking about, yes, if there was an attack on the black sea fleet, there would be a nuclear war , the ukrainians brilliantly showed, here. We they hacked the fleet with their genius drones and nothing, and something changes. Ukrainians are already doing everything right, it seems to me, in the sense that they are conducting military operations. Operations within russia, which all the time show america that they should not be afraid of them, yes, these are operations in two directions, yes, or in three directions , he tells his society, hold on, we have a plan, yes, we have a plan for an asymmetric war against of this enemy, it is very inspiring, it is very important, it affects russia, which is even beginning to come to such a understanding that they did not calculate everything, and this of course very much affects the west, no , there are more such operations, i would like it if there were some Cyber Operations against russia from the ukrainians, if i dont know, they cut down a couple of factories, where they do rockets, what will russias reaction be, because it is clear, this is the next step in this request to the sky , somewhere, well, it is clear that this is the next big one, well, so big, and such a moment in this war, in this plan, it is very new war, and drones this is one news in this war, and the cyber aspect this is the future wars recently, i see a lot of articles, different editions, british, german, american, where the same picture is endless, no matter what is written in the title, an illustration is a must, some cemetery in ukraine, some wounded fighters, and thats it. Well, i, you know, i have such a mixed feeling, i understand that this is possibly some manifestation of empathy, but are articles like that in general. Things are told, because really now there are many interesting studies, it is very important, americans are very motivated by stories about children, about the fact that children are being kidnapped, very motivates, even the trumpists, as they say, no , this needs to be stopped, everything is about genocide, and so on and so on , of course, the American Society of material values, yes, they do not really understand why this is important for the International Theory of law there and all these phrases about the International Legal community, all of this is completely incomprehensible to ordinary people, but what protects children is very important, it is very important, it is very important, on the one hand, it is very important, it is about values, it is about that needs to be protected children, victims, and so on, this is extremely important, on the other hand, of course , especially americans, it is important, well, support for ukraine correlates with belief in the ukrainian victory, yes, and of course, it is very important to talk about victories, too, yes, what is needed that balance, yes, its very important, its very important to have the concept of victory, ukraine, ukraine has a lot of victories, not only in the military sphere, for example, in the crimea with the black sea fleet, but in the sphere of infrastructure and so on, every day there is some kind of victory, but it is not always there kontza roskazano, that is, do you think that the media, that is, the media of the world, they are now more like faltering, they show ukraine more as a victim, or do they still show it as a winner . Well, the journalists are going for something new, yes, when there were victories, battles for kyiv, when there was the liberation of kharkiv and kherson regions, of course they didnt write about it, but now they write about it, like this, that is, you want to say victory . No, well , then such a clod begins, yes, and it is possible, and it is possible to overemphasize something very much a thing that knows less about you than the other, its not, we do it all the time, and the history of our research, how we all the time redirect it to some topic, and this topic becomes dominant when it does not reflect reality, so it this, this is a very old problem of the media, and it doesnt start with this war, but its interesting, look, russian, russian propaganda talks a lot about how western technology. Just another leopard or bradley or Something Like that, for it is important for them to tell their population, because the population is really afraid, now there was the last study by levada, where the first is the fear of russian shelling , the second is the supply of western equipment to ukraine, the third is the fear of a counterattack by ukraine, that is, the three main fears of the russian population, more than 60 of them are afraid of all this , the last one was this study in september. And what about all these news about the fact that foreign equipment that was given to ukraine is on fire somewhere, that it is broken, that it was attacked again by russians, russians, how do western societies perceive it, all these news, and and in general, do they perceive or are they interested in what is happening with technology, yes, look, it is interesting, for two reasons, there is simply a part of society that is very interesting, yes, who watch Youtube Channels about tanks, yes, who download themselves hey, i dont know where they dont know about the drone, there are just people who love it very much, of course, people want it very much. They still feel very sorry for ukraine, they really want to feel that they are part of the victory, too, yes, but it seems to me that you just know that the news must be new so that people they were followed, yes, this is not, well, the news is has to be new, yes, by its own definition, yes , well, he told it once, the second time, the third time, we need it because of this, it seems to me that , for example, these are brilliant the attacks on the black sea fleet were very interesting, there was something new, yes, but we need to think, what else . Some tank burned down, well it burned down, the first time is interesting, the second, the third, yes, the third, the third time is unfortunately uninteresting, yes, it is necessary to show new forms of victory all the time, this is it, i know that it is difficult, this its not easy, well, we live in a world where information is extremely important, and where a military operation also has an informational aspect , yes, well, it seems to me that gur understands this very well, for sure, yes, not very, well, it works very well in this direction, do you generally evaluate all this influx of articles about the counteroffensive and how much, again, how much does it affect the support of ukraine, here are all the conversations that the counteroffensive is like this, not like that, it went like this, everyone, to the people, i think that people simply lose interest when an expert starts Something Like this the technical disassembly of targets, people dont follow the war like that, they see what is happening , they watch, yes, if we talk about the public, from event to event, in fact, something bright happened, they concentrated on it. I repeat the focus group in america, again, america is a unique country, they ask us, is the war still going on . Uh, well, im not saying that this is a huge point of view, yes, but it is, yes, but to such a degree that ukraine is almost absent, well, not that almost, but often it is simply not in the news. Then on this ground, and conversations, again, which are constant some experts say that it is necessary to agree on something with russia, to what extent these conversations are also, well, some kind of mainstream. It is possible to agree on something with russia about something public, nobody thinks about it at all, especially, yes, if it is about such an elite conversation, yes, there is a large group of people who lobby for such a position, they are stronger in europe than in america, and trump he talks about it, yes, he says that he will agree with everyone in 5 seconds, because he is a dialmaker, he will agree with everyone and everyone will be happy, but here he is telling about such a position, but i think that among the people who make politics, they understand that they are not negotiating with anyone, yes, i think that this illusion has long passed, and you know, this conversation continues, almost so in such a way, i dont know how the rest of the echoes of old conversations are, but now i think that everyone there understands that they have no one to negotiate with, but they also dont understand what to do, or at least they dont tell us what they will do , yes, it means, well, yes, he is like that, in this, well in this inaccuracy, well this is very much its dangerous, you know, i have such a feeling that again, again, if trump comes to power, its all thrown out, uh, and god means it will be, well , i have the impression that when the focus is lost a little bit, the understanding is also lost, that to do further, there is such a familiar reaction, everyone starts talking about corruption in ukraine, you know, its just a topic to which you can always return if you dont know what to say, but i have such an impression and it seems to me that right now. Such a moment and how widespread these conversations are in general, how much they really hit on the support of ukraine, how toxic they are, how much the society of western countries pays attention to them, it is extremely important , well, the studies that i read show that even those who support ukraine, when you ask them, why would you lose them , why would you lose would lose or stop support. They answer to ukraine that there is the first point, if ukraine itself commits crimes, and the second point , if there is corruption, and the money will be used for corrupt purposes and it will be stolen, you understand that they give their money, yes, taxpayers money, for a very important purpose, they fully understand that this is a very important purpose, the majority, yes , 75 believe that it is very important to support ukraine, but if they see how the ukrainian elite. Steals this money is for themselves and it does not go to the people, then they will certainly react negatively to it, and of course, russian propaganda, but not only russian propaganda, simply american antiukrainian propaganda puts maximum pressure on this, on this topic, this is almost the most dangerous topic for ukraine and because of this, it is necessary to approach it very seriously, and you also said it here, because now i see a repetition of such a comeback, you know, in the 16th17th year, when such a one occurred. In order to normalize russia in general, they started talking about corruption in ukraine, but now it s the same story, because to a certain extent these conversations, well, they carry. Well, how will we fight this . Well, here i am, well, yes, yes, there are many historians here, and russian sources, american sources, if we talk in detail, yes, it is possible, well, lets start with metaphors that we hear all the time in focus groups, yes, why do we write u blank check . Why do we write ukraine a blank check, an open check, as much as you want, yes, start with these metaphors, there are no open checks, yes, we track every penny. Everything is very, very high and the audiences are highquality system, how do we track the money, thats the first thing, yes, its such small things, where do you need to start, yes, you need to fight at the level of the language, and you need to talk about it, still how money is spent on american taxpayers, this is an important topic, and who should do it, the American Government should do it, the Ukrainian Government should do it, everything, everything, everything, each has its own approach. But it is also necessary not to fall too far into the conversation about money , yes, when it comes to supporting the security of the world, when it comes to the fact that it is necessary to form tyrants who try to take away the freedom of other countries, then, well, in order to defeat them and to to achieve stability, which can be possible after victory, and this is a very good investment, yes, in order of magnitude order in stability is necessary, it also says that no matter how much it is, it is impossible to count dollars here and there, yes, that stability will be after we are able to stop russia, it brings great benefits for everyone, to what extent it affects, does not affect at all what for example, this one. Narrated that russia is so big and it will always be big, and ukraine is not so big, and it is running out of resources, what we constantly, constantly read, hear, how much is it in general, such a thing that, who perceives, well some societies of western countries, politicians of western countries, how toxic is this issue, insanely, insanely toxic, there is still the idea that russia is huge, there is. That it is very rich, there is knowledge, that it has Nuclear Weapons , that it has rich resources, and this is the idea that it is a giant, you have to deal with a giant, you will never defeat it, it plays a huge role, and it is necessary to disassemble it very much to see the nakedness of this king, we have not yet done it, that is, this myth has not been deconstructed, not completely, of course, some. Have sobered up, but it goes very deep, it goes for centuries, yes , you wont understand something here in an hour, yes, it plays a very big role, i think, look, and i understand it, Nuclear Weapons, in itself, but the question of Nuclear Weapons also remains toxic, which in principle affects decisionmaking very strongly, officially, yes , according to any doctrine, you are different, and you have a different relationship with a Nuclear State than a Nuclear State this is part of the doctrine of any country, well, you know, mine. A big part my work in general consists in the fact that i watch literally hours of russian tv shows, russian television, in order to understand what they are doing to their population, and, and the last, and the last, well, the biggest such trend that was, literally, it started last week, but its dragging on now, they re trying for their own, well, its cyclical for them, they approached it several times, but this is the last one. A very strong approach is happening right now, they are trying to normalize nuclear war for the russian population, they they talk about the fact that a nuclear war can be won, that a nuclear war can be limited, that russia can, well, at least respond and we will not all die, but only some part will die, well, maybe you know this story, when simonyan, Margarta Simonyan said that we can detonate a bomb over russia there, and after that everything will turn off and we can do Something Like that. Why over russia . Turn off satellites, turn off all satellites, why, thats another question. Okay, fine. The question is that they are now trying to make some nuclear, nuclear a test that would be very big and would terrify everyone, and since they can only do this test on the territory of russia, they have to normalize it for the russians, and a strange thing came out, because after a few days. This propaganda is very active, there are a number of such petty politicians, semioppositional, even there one deputy of the state duma is from the communists, and one is from her. Russian officials began to say that something must be done about these propagandists who talk about this, because it is impossible, well, they have to face this talk about Nuclear Weapons, uh, at the forum in valdaya, putin was forced to come out himself and say that he does not support the use of Nuclear Weapons, now , the changes in russias nuclear doctrine, its not him, it s not him, its all this type of propaganda, and, that is, russian, it can be seen that they, they. The perception by the russian population, or rather the nonacceptance by the russian population of ideas about nuclear war, about some limited nuclear strikes, which they endlessly talk about, about Tactical Nuclear strikes, which they endlessly talk about, and against the background of this im just wondering how much is possible in this in this case, it will be effective if in response, they publicly, not publicly, but heard that any attempts, to use Nuclear Weapons in any case, they will receive exactly such a nuclear strike, because the population of russia is really afraid of this, maybe time to work with this fear . I dont know, it seems to me that you know more about this than i do, i have seen different studies in russia, where people are very afraid of Nuclear Weapons, that theoretically, if we can convince them that their power leads to this apocalypse, it needs to be stopped, like. To russia, and everything is different there, yes, it seems to me, sometimes, that ukraine, somehow, has a historical, there, historical understanding of russia, but the Ukrainian Society developed in such a different way, the last 30 years, that i often, when i talk with ukrainian bloggers, how they apply. How will the kingdom of hidden mirrors work there, i dont know, but what will work there, we cant expect, it seems to me that we cant expect a coup there, well, we have the same situation, as with the support of the germans, hitler, hitler, nazism, it seems, it seems, very similar, yes, and in such, in such a situation, what should we put pressure on in order to at least prevent really which ones, it is necessary to accept, what kind of goal, all anyway, yes, no, it is necessary to accept what goal, yes, looking at what goal, yes, here, our, our goal in general, to drive them out of our territory, and to defeat them in this way, for example, well , look, we have simple goals , yes, there, well, to beat the mobilization, yes, there, there, maybe , i dont know, i dont know in the productions there are important for and for the production of weapons, well, probably, it is necessary to start with such things, well, what we really do not understand, well, what does any propaganda there during the war begin with, and how will it cause problems in their military production and military the machine, the concentration is always on this, yes, how to make the soldiers desert, and so on , this is the first, yes, the most simple and the most competent, and i think that everyone is already engaged in this, with Different Levels of success, and if he says more about social changes big, here it is always necessary to combine military actions, well, communication, political and so on, it is necessary in one thing, yes, they must Work Together during the war, and even when i do not know, ukrainian drones have reached moscow, and to what extent we were able to expand this information everywhere and return it in such a way that the kremlins power looked weak, yes, did we make the most of the moment of the gorzhyn uprising, yes , we made the most of it, i dont know if we were able to make the most of it return the informational part of this action to ours and to ours to our victory yes i dont know just yes i dont deal with it, well this is the next question, right . To what degree are physical actions supported by information, yes, that they need to be maximized, but then the most important thing is our understanding, relations, relationships of information, i dont know, public different moods with changes in the political calculations of the kremlin, yes, that after all what we are looking for, yes, is the moment when people who make a decision russia, decide that this war was. And we need, well, at the end of the invasion of afghanistan , the soviets, they just have to come to terms with defeat, right, yes, that was a mistake, we need to change, we need to change our political decisions, right . If we are looking for it, yes, at least i dont know, it seems, yes, how did the soviets leave afghanistan or the french leave algeria, well, such excuses, we still dont really understand what they rely on when they can make such a decision, yes, at what moment did they understand, oh, here we are they miscalculated, yes, we didnt think through something, and we still dont really understand, i dont really understand, maybe the guru understands, martsaru understands what theyre looking at, yes, when they accept. It is related to sanctions, it is related to the interrelationship of regions in russia, a classic russian problem, yes , interrelationships in the regions, it is related to financial indicators, and there is some report that we cannot transfer to the central bank anymore, but i do not i know that this is, yes, when we are, we need to push away from this, yes, thats it what they are looking at, and how exactly these points will affect us then, through information, through sanctions, through military actions, well, thats it. It is necessary to withdraw, yes, well, the network of actions, i would not separate here cyber actions, military actions, information actions , sanctions actions, they must all Work Together to lead to this result, well , we understand, it is very far, here is from the search democratic beginnings in russian society, no, let someone look for them, but this will not lead to victory, uh, in the end, what do you think about. What is communication now the task of ukraine, well, first of all, in the west, in the western world, because the western world needs us, well, look, i dont think that there are any informational tasks that are not related to real politics, yes, this is really all related , and the question of how to tell more about the victories is very important, yes, thats all these eternal conversations about counteroffensives, its a fixation on this on this history, its already bad, yes it is necessary to tell. About other actions, other victories, and other problems that will now be, this will be a very harsh winter, we we know this, we know that russia has prepared a huge number of missiles and drones that are built with western technology, western machine tools, western microchips, and we need to talk about it now, we need to raise awareness in the west very strongly now that western technology produces weapons that kill children and which strengthens russia, it is very important for the west to start taking the most effective actions to stop it, yes, we are talking about sanctions and many other actions to stop it, просtо другие движимосtь tоже нужны, well, first of all, weapons, which we do not have enough of, just tell me, but can we still expect that the west will stop reacting nervously to attacks on russia. When this will happen, because without us moving the war on the territory of russia, im afraid, its impossible to, well , win, well, look, the strikes are different, well, now were hitting military targets, were enough of that we show that we i think, i think that very much and this, i think that ukraine has changed concepts very much west about how russia will react, attacks in crimea, what drones are in moscow. I think that such fires in key factories have greatly changed the calculation of the western services of politicians about the possibilities of how to win this war, we are waiting for the next step, the next step, when they stop being afraid that this is happening in the west, we were accompanied by a writer and a journalist peter pomarantsev. Thank you. 8 p. M. In ukraine, news time on the espresso tv channel, in the studio of iryna koval, greetings to all viewers, and lets start with the situation on kherson region. The russians dropped 12 guided aerial bombs on khersonk. In the Regional Center , residential buildings, as well as the premises of transport and food enterprises, were sprayed, the head of the Regional Military administration Oleksandr Prokudin said. Settlements of the kherson and boryslav districts also came under enemy fire. The head of the kherson city military administration, Roman Mrochko , reports that the occupiers continue to shell the city from the temporarily occupied