Lets see, eliminate him from the political fuel. So whats it like to live with a government that kills its political opponents, unseen from moscow . Why the something space of warnings, by nato officials, about a russian attack over the next few years. What does a know . We dont on the right color slick of welcome to complex of excellence. Its much, its time for president ial elections in russia, of letting me a put in once a 5th time. Thatd be my post and always gets what he wants is this is close to absolute power as it gets in russia. Yes. So this is one more step to choose actual power. But so when were asking our cells, where was this turning point . For she seems as a decrease michigan mazda because the development of his interview was somewhere in the year 2020. When he told the referendum about some of the med, most of the constitution, the main think about 0 and copious present initial terms. And now she is over to the president. And after that, all the doors were open for any steps. Functions sites like to this war of february 22, 22. Unfortunately of no other means the same year 2020 it doesnt have much to do with democracy. It does it. These elections, even mr. Perkins spokesman dmitri pest golf, tell the New York Times last year, president ial election isnt really a democracy. Its a costly bureaucracy. So why bother with this show . Because this is one more attempt that demonstrates to the majority of the rest and populations that they, they are still the majority, which is obedience, indifference and ready to continue to accept the pretense initiatives. And just as important as thats minority minority is a must understand that they are still minorities as a can to influence that i think is this country because we have a majority which is in flash which supports proteins. So nothing to do with this political system. We cant change anything because of that. So these electrons search to no significant is the same time. This is one more really rounds of flex. Why not to, to repeat . So this kind of really into refresher as a legitimacy or for the all the correct oh, credible candidates of being eliminated way before the polling stations open bar is not just in the end table candid and he was disqualified by the state. He called some traction for a while. Was he a, a threat . Was he didnt thats right. The edition was squares attracted to the public who was liberal views. And you know, in the rush or millions of people who are sharing to liberal pro the critic pro western and to put you in a vision of the world. And because of that, in addition, was kind of afloat for this people wednesday sun and its pushing it and it was understandable that criminal decide its not till ocean to participate because she keeps it undermines the feeling of absolutes comes to the dish and around put him in a case of getting, i dont know, 56, even 10 percent. Uh, man into it. It could means that the paternity is not the only one who is so who deserves. So the supports and there are people with the enter your agenda, not to mention the 10s of case. And that doesnt include demonstrates enter your agenda via television and the code. So shake because of use. So for the majority, which is still not connected to the tv set. So, so with no, they decided not to not to risk you from that slide risk. Im alexa, nevada, me that in a prison camp in the arctic circle, was he ever really an electrical threat to prove to or was it that he and others like him . Were never going to be allowed to get anywhere near that status. The one that didnt have an opportunity to participate in the legal political process. But so when she did participate in the year 2013 during moscows mayors election skills, extremely efficient. Astonishingly efficient for kremlin investors items they decided to not to allow him to participate in any kind of like options. So if it was a real threat to put to getting them to someone. And so its a moment to the means that pasta the whole political process reduced busy. Now this is fine between the fall knee and approach him. And is that sense even being can prison . That when it was a threat to pushing the competitor maybe invisible in an information field about the same time, quite mighty and square to compress it for, for the parts of the population. And because of that, it was important to, lets see, and eliminate him from the political field. Do you by the story that he was about to be swapped for a kayla. So having time in germany, do you by that story . Of we dont know the truths may be, will know nowadays, but it looks like global story and, and in that sense, simple, it wasnt requested dance. Uh that she was, lets say, maybe killed maybe by some maybe something else. So we have to wait for some results sofa. Shes still able to search for maybe is the gym to clear up some good deals. And i found this family is pretty clear and his colleagues are pretty clear that the state did kill him. You wouldnt seriously argue with that, would you i would say likely. So the experience of this regime demonstrates that it is possible. Lets remember, is a case of st policy or in any other cases and put in several times, repeat it to you are anxious curios, thats a my pets, realty color oriented ordering. And since people do that, but these and because of that among people with uh, lets say liberal views, there is no doubt that nobody put the keels. Uh no, no, we dont have a conclusive evidence of it so, but the feeling is very strong. Come on. Russian Civil Society, we know that they tried and failed to kill him back in 2020 and we know because the millions listened to a government assassin describing his previously unsuccessful attempt to kill him about me. Little realizing that he was actually talking to him about the im being recorded by him at the time. So nobodys going to believe any government denials of a underscore. Uh, you know, which means what do we mean by nobody to because of the majority are still the 1st to believe friendly and unofficial version, or prefer us not to think about this. The horrible story you know, so low to for russian. So they didnt know about the place, the things that i didnt know about the does so its not what it means. It in this camp near arctic circle, but the majority prefers not to boulder itself. Uh uh, not to pay too much attention to, to this for us in order to keep for themselves mentally normal. Um the subsea more old, but the majority prefers not to know. And it seems about, uh like, uh, uh cuz you know, it is still with his, uh, the, so thread, cetera. And because of that, thats more about the leaf with disbelief amongst people. With the normal view, smiths a democratic fused record by from a lawyer at the human rights group. Memorial said if they could kill nevada and they, they could kill anybody else. If hes right, where does all this and all the killings all the political prisoners. Why does this and i know the real threat is to political prisoners. Im sure we dont have a political position in the appropriate sense of simple words right now because of a high level of for patients kyras in the names of substitute new new orleans of last year or so for his existence. And i, i, i would say that its, unfortunately, for instance, people like to let him know cut them. It was a, or a, the, a yes from could be under threats. And not everyone in dissidence community, but uh, the main of the most vocal people from mazda political, a position, because barto was a political position as a broad sub parts. So for the literacy are in prison. So for people who are in prison, so there is a real threat. I think unfortunately, you spoke off the volume, this funeral about moral resistance among the population, people carrying flowers and candles to his memorials. How much of that moral resistance is left in russia. Uh, like a stress of sorts moral because as i said, political position isnt so efficient right now. And this is more about a moral resistance and about political resistance. This people can fight as they do not want to fight for power. They dont have for literacy. They dont have organizations which are totally liquidated by the regime, even small in jewels, but the dose of no only demonstrates as a funeral and around the dentist way to that this Single Society still here must be for a Society Search which is very different than the passive and the full of confirm is and that Civil Society, the society of responsible citizens who us to who for the best, who for the country, for in a permanent order because of this war. Theyve demonstrated that they are here. It was a huge step for people club for, for were going to was a funeral because of the, the face recognition system is working and sometimes policemen are coming to the to the plants. So it was this people after a different kind of events, wolf, the funerals like the link flowers as the man, as a place or so from a man, there we go for political repression, so cetera, et cetera. So if you want to see the so Civil Society in the rush, we can overcome. For instance, the website over then for with the concrete statistics about persecutions, about the criminal prosecutions, administrative persecutions, extrajudicial persecutions. A lot of examples of these kind of problems for russian citizens, but she resist Civil Society, which is still ready to resist and ready to at least a think of all the constitution think about so as a responsibility, collective responsibility you, you talked about values, legacy. Id like to know how long you think it will last, isnt it inevitable that as the years go by, that will be less and less opposition . A moral or real refreshing work stuff and it progressions efficient . Yes for patients work, but at the same time, no. This fatigue from room is also sheer. And in a case of mine, there was successful for a Civil Society and a demonstration that was to use uh, some people quite hesitating corpus difficult for me says they cant shares of you sofa. And this actually, if a Single Society activities, so in that sense or actually isnt hopeless and ive seen it with just like and so the attempts were when Minerals People were ready for change of skin color, which are of key when government literature for took the power ends as being a bunch of population is also ready for changes, but so, you know, in current circumstances kind of a single though must came from the very top. And the was out a change in the 1st person, i guess. So the serious changes in russia are impossible. Veteran now, extraordinary efforts and youve outlined some of them to, to come down on even the slightest infractions of this expanding penal codes that the author already is keep adding to. We hear of teachers in schools reporting a 1011 year old pupils to the Security Police books, a band people arrested on the metro because they were reading something. But the fellow passengers didnt like every case pursued with the utmost vigor and brutality. And i suppose my question is, is the state really that insecure about its hold on paul and its people . You know, it smarter bell Cell Development of russian style. All sorts here is my would say this is not simply and assorted terrorism is more about a name, its high, but its authoritarianism, same utilitarianism because the state is trying to infiltrate into all this for yourselves. A private plan for people you to want it wants to control, for instance, theaters repair to ours. Uh, uh, book markets, libraries, etc, etc. But nevertheless, this societies mother in license, this is for them, well educated society and people are trying to keep for the private space to see more on more or less normal situation. And it looks us to print its some, some movies are pretty cool cause appear in this such a strange hospitality or in space. So yeah. Is there a difference . The threats like denunciations from your competitor else, but nevertheless, it is still, it is still Civil Society and i can repeat it. It is not so hopeless and get the chance survives this period. But the, the space of labor to you for free to my snare rooms. This is through but if you wants to do something, you can try. And some people are trying to, to write articles to be vocal, to, to, to talk, at least to talk about the constitution. Its, its not sales, or its not help does it by the fact that so many ordinary citizens appeared willing to inform on each other on their colleagues and their families and their friends. How destructive is that to the fabric of Russian Society destroys trust of the yes its true, its to the trust is not so the strong side of the society is a trust each other. But some people simply prefer not to talk with the unknown persons. They prefer to talk to canal so who they are trying not to be so vocal sitting in congress for instance, to say preferred not to discuss political issues. This is true, but you know, its the same time uh again who, who wants to resist can try to do it. For instance, if there is such a new magazine which was initiated by the noble lord, its a mixer. Morattis was a title going to be in a corporation was good, but your foundation and this is one of the attempts to, to, to, to, to create something to you, even in the circumstances. There was some problems with this magazine, but it is still in the fields. So why not to transfer this whole thing . Uh and this its, its a, its contributes a, some things i hope for the future. When we talk about hope, lets also talk about the war in ukraine, which has of course, exacerbated the repression level. Good cough leading russian sociologist says theres a high degree of support for the war highest among the educated and the educated in moscow does not surprise you. Yes. Is there a lot of surprising stories, especially in the field of mess, psychology and miss. So silly. And uh, you know, this is all about people who are afraid of changing their life. So they are trying to avoid problems with themselves. Which means that as a full flip, say, double thinking of a pretending the ward doesnt exist. So they can to avoid the mentioning fee to thinking about it. So thats a trying not to do it publicly. Maybe is the same people, but who they want to continue as a career, as for instance, in the university. So Something Like that. But as a private spacing, their quizzes selected to us. And so we have time so they can discuss freely the Current Situation with the core, with the some assessments which are not public. Lets see, this is more about privates assessments private life. So this is more about double thinking. You said recent pay that pretend as make clear russia is fighting a permanent background war with the west. Best argument gives is him his rational, his way to maintain power . Does put in one fact war in your view. Oh yes, she wants me. Shes the main initiator, im sure. Is that, and is this personal, this decreasing . Put in was the main source of, of this war was this idea. Ology, which justifies for the russian id was nation alanta in nationalistic and imperialistic ideas. The very archive now that bills to the, to the, to tradition, send the spiritual values, etc, etc. And she must invent. So the goal for the society. So this is not coping is more capitalism. And they invented some travelling, this permanent for, it was the best, the best was also taking us. So we must defense our sales. And even though were expansion expansions, this is kind of, it is, this is more about defense. And uh, but the reason the reports, reese, im sorry to interrupt you, reset the intelligence reports in the west of suggested russia intends to double the number of its troops on the border with the Baltic States and finland. And people have spoken officials, government officials in several countries have spoken of the fact that that could possibly be attacked by russia on the nato countries over the next few years. How plausible do think that these things is suspicious. P r. O to be so then to to, to, to, to look so mighty, so impressive. Uh, uh, and i guess he wants to create i am, shes a political philosophies. This is a part of russian for sure. And she wants to return and strengthen as he says. So this territories it, she doesnt care about voltage stays for the length or, or pulled this as a loop service. In my opinion, she will not have enough resources for one more flank, one more front. Uh, she simply wants to continue this permanent toward was the best as a goal for the society, but at the same time in the practical terms and apply it to her. And she doesnt want to, to take the, for instance, baltic stays because it will mean the real world was native. It would be much more serious. So thats just sort of a tuition was you brain doesnt need to look week to russia to put in the not so we could, but to because this very majority of the society which in looks like a strong man, chloe cruise equal to tomato. Nicer is more of both e, mature for the main enemy, United States of america, nathan in europe, is kind of such a line to of uh, of nato in the ends of United States. You said last month that despite old a new career saved by rattling but weve heard from fulton, they dont want the afraid of nuclear war. What makes you so sure of that whole visit . You know . So as you settled, they must understand that. So even the use of the technical uh, ukes uh, could be suicidal for uh for say a resume for the country. Uh they want to leave for they want to enjoy this life and because of that. So yes, so the, so Nuclear Black mailing fees square, its impressive and quite effective as it is quite effective because its presented in fact to prevents as the west from giving the sophisticated weapons to you, correct . Yes. As a problem for actually. So thats a very conversations that talk about the nuclear werent became such a light. My talk, we can do it. Why not . This is a main danger to proceed the domestic public so that it is possible. This is a danger of furniture story and wrote recently that society is like russia, autocracies dont bend, but they can break. Do you believe that after all russia has broken, the soviet union broke up. The button wall came down, communism was denounced as a failed experiment. Under what circumstances do you think russia could conceivably come apart . Now . You know, when were talking about this, the future ends, the behavior of our leads. Theyre behaving like that according to the drover up in order to look after us as it is a slot. And in that sense, they hopelessly as they have enough resources to continue this work until the physical end of uh, putting them to his team. But uh, the resources could be depleted and the next generation though, for petitions they will have to take responsibility for the country for the European Security and this as an interest of the west coast call and interest. So no mutual interest of the russians at west said to have a new generation of people who can recreate discounts for you from 0 this summer full come because the resources im not to the terminal. So the bills are full. Russia, thats the alexa in the valley. You talked about does exist somewhere down the line and youll view it exists in the, in the soul, southern brain. So for pro democratic russians as they are here and those they will be ready for changes when the time will count. Im very classic of thank you very much for being on comforting. So thank you. Thank you for having me here. The, the the point is in a surprise every day, many risk their lives working in indonesia is billy gold, gold mine. But workers also face another terrible threats. Mercury. It is used to extract it, evaporates seats into the ground and devastate peoples lives for ease and poverty. 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