Transcripts For DW Conflict Zone 20240712

Possible. Everest bartolo welcome to conflict so thank you for made it clear that in the wake of the murder of corona and all the corruption scandals that have followed that malta needs to rebuild its reputation that isnt going to happen until their body starts telling the truth is that i agree at the fact when i was appointed for and i 1st minister because they told me to go ahead and see what you can do i made that very clear not a beautician or a Plastic Surgeon have there are a guillotine which have to be dealt with they have to be dealt with in malta in terms of reality or not of the presentation of reality well well get into possibly what some of those 30 things are but im curious why former ministers like you supported a government that you knew was rotten to the core. Well when things started coming out of the time of the Panama Papers of lost with the 16 i made it very clear that they thought id accept the bill. But you say go on i stayed on. I had the choice. I admire savonarola but they had my. Mortar i had to i had the survival strategy where i could fight another but did we use that experience to get there weve got to do with of the party at this time and now hes in the Democratic Party to negotiate things to make the government more accountable but your collective silence over the years helped cement in power a government that became a byword for corruption with conflicts of interest multiplying in the Prime Ministers Office and the rule of law or seriously undermined and you went along with the by staying in the government. Yes they have said recently that perhaps. It would have been wiser to resign in 2016 as a pressure to change things i acknowledge that but i have spoken even of the over the last 4 years against what you have just said used have been question of a lot of times and we get on to say that i dont think it was very very i dont think if you were to live in a Small Society like more there you know that those the way i spoke and what i said was very very clear o. C. C. R. P. The highly respected organized crime and corruption reporting project im sure you know it they named joseph must get person of the year for 2019 an annual award that highlights an individual who has done most to advanced organized criminal activity and corruption in a given year its a pretty shameful ward to the men you worked for isnt it but ive made it clear to him even in 2016 that the tours going to be in his interest to take the necessary steps to get those people in government who are involved with the money part of our papers and he didnt pay the huge price for it so how do you feel he deserves the award. And i think i made it very clear to him that it was in his interest for a person to have contributed so much to a konami group to the introduction of Civil Liberties in malta and then to have his record painted with that weather doesnt excuse him for what he did later doesnt know just because the economy was booming you know of course murder and corruption were also new many of them to have made it also very clear that Economic Growth shouldnt come at any expense we should have a can on the growth with rule of law and where it can govern o. C. C. R. P. Said that on the must gets leadership criminality and corruption have flourished and in many cases gone unpunished creating an environment that led to the 27000 murder of tough knicker on the goalie if they knew that then the same message was coming for. International watchdogs you had to know what was going on yourself because youre not completely and while im too and im not trying to get away from this. First of all one of the big problems that we have and again im not trying to explain it away is that in our Small Society personal networks personal relations are stronger than institutional once and at the expense of public these been some sadness because unfortunately the rule of family or dual or friends is stronger than the rule of law and this is an issue that we have to deal with and weve come to a point now that we cannot delay taking all the necessary steps and more its. Just assertion doesnt it minister say the personal relationships are worth more than the rule of law but saying if you were in government whats worth more than the rule of law yes but in small societies im saying and there again im not trying to excuse anything its more like states like malta microstates which are not as the size of minnesota but one 3rd of its population. It is true that when you look at the primary groups of friends and family and then the 2nd the groups or institutions should come in the 1st group and the 2nd group its very poorest theres no bond there between one and the other all im saying is that in our societies it is a more formidable challenge to make sure that there is the rule of law that there are rules and there are regular joes who serve in government are expected to accept that challenge and rise are going oh hey i agree i agree one of the things you limited was that you didnt take a stronger stand in 2016 against at least one of those minister friends of the former prime as the comrade mitzi whod been named in the Panama Papers your biggest political mistake you called it even so your behavior was inexplicable wasnt it you called publicly for mitts his resignation but you refused to endorse the parliamentary vote of no confidence against him or because the way the motion had been framed and then the amendments that were put to death made it possible for us to hold the government my government to introduce measures to increase accountability there but in the end you helped to keep in office a man whose behavior in your own view had been shot the a new adequate mycenaeans your old my single vote would it have made a difference it had every was going to vote makes a difference on islam but now doesnt it not but not in that case with you where you had suppose you started another regular you didnt stand for your prince i agree with you but i tried to use that to negotiate measures to hold the government to account now when it happened when such it was impossible. Well some measure started coming in but then when this time when you started coming after november i made it very clear that i was going to resign and they said i did they go or i go and they made enough pressure for them to go. But the fact is that your silence and your continued support of the former Prime Minister made you and your colleagues complicit in this dysfunctional corrupt system i tried to use internal pressure to get things done this time in november talk to remain i want them in any peacoat part of this swamp of corruption and Financial Crime i try to do my bit better they havent done enough but i am committed to do all i can to because this is a very important time for us its a moment of truth i would call it we had an existential crossroads since our independence 55 years ago we either get our house in order or we i think threaten our sovereignty and they were low for the motor but theyve been so many warnings like that before heaven then they were ignored in 2017 year and chief justice silvio coming larry want that instead of the rule of law malta was heading to what he called the rule of delinquents now that was enough to change anybodys mind then wasnt warning in stark sharp terms like the. Debate when when things started to become more clear for us because you might think that im trying to get away from what youre telling me but. Its only recently that things became so clear to us what was happening i know that even in 2016 they warned that there was a shadow government and their network of Decision Makers that were that were influencing what was happened didnt name names did you. Might think it was clear who i was referring to believe it wasnt how its all going to 65 i think it was doing it live given that the same new people were still in government and still a part of the establishment. I made internal pressure and i didnt manage to get them committed to concede that the whole system was in fact set up to to bypass independent scrutiny and prevent any kind of accountability wasnt it i mean the pay the Prime Ministers Office for instance took over responsibility for areas that presented particular opportunities for Money Laundering Online Gaming investment migration regulation of Financial Services it was clear that it was these areas were drowning in corruption and to buy the product getting the Prime Minister involved directly in them was keeping the regulators at bay wasnt it but im not im not i dont agree that all of these activities and all these different economic sectors are rotten and corrupt there are definitely parts which are and where one of the problems i think that we have had. Irrespective of the share of human nature with the zone of the good there is. When you have such strong Economic Growth and the regulators are not given enough resources or intentionally. To a certain is spencer skills the intention to a certain extent yes but not all of them either but for example when it comes to financial investigations those have been given a lot of resources i think the biggest problem that we have and the weakest weakest link in the chain is the Economic Crimes unit of the police and unless that is beefed up and really resourced with well qualified people of integrity this problem will remain because ultimately were going to be judged on how many people are prosecuted not what im telling you now or what we say in grand in ground thats really difficult when the judges and magistrates were appointed by the Prime Minister was that were the case in the system described by the council of europes Parliamentary Assembly as incompatible with Judicial Independence and the rule of law but i think this is not fair in this case for a very simple reason did this is government the appointment of magistrates and the judges have been more independent of the executive arm of government than ever before before the Prime Minister had total jurisdiction no its not like that in the model there is a Judicial Appointment Committee and we are intent definitely on taking the steps that the Venice Commission has indicated which once used to do so for known but we have started that i dare you to go even in the last 30 that differ in the last week even sorry even in the last month apart from the last week sets have been taken to start implementing those recommendations under dinu Prime Minister in may 2016 when you said things were fine. They plainly werent were they you said the government had already started in 2016 to introduce a culture of better political responsibility and transparency that wasnt true you know it all struck those who had the measures that i told you about here but 3 years later though the council of europe reported that major scandals were arising going unreported and uninvestigated for the 1st time we have we have introduced this is the contradiction of this government and of the most corrupt government as well for the 1st time we introduced measures to hold government to account that had never been introduced before now where they were they were they werent working or nothing but why give them or why give them a free pass say a culture of better political responsibility and transparency has been introduced then we have the parliament papers the electorate gas the further hilman the further vittles Global Health care for the golden passport all all time and again featuring the same key figures close to the Prime Minister and the police and several instances mysteriously failing to act and none of that was serious enough for you to say youve crossed my red lines youve crossed the many many times i did see it intended. And they repeated the weakest link was and still remiss even now and we have to act about the Economic Crime scene because its not an afternoon people its not enough to investigate them then you need to prosecute just about although you know much much more than you are telling. More than youve ever told you know names you know places you know where the bodies are buried dont you. Have you taken a vow of silence no i have it and if you are you afraid for youre alive one of them you seen what happens to people no tell the truth and well know that you know very similar that if there is anyone who has not taken a vow of silence is me because i have spoken up i have spoken up time and taken me to dance around the subject you make cryptic comments like justice can be served without fear of. Favor without burning this country to cinders and without burning or hurting those who want justice done what on earth is not clean its not critical to the earth does it mean who is it addressed to was addressed to my government but then they pulled enough pressure for their change to happen you also their own facebook the country cannot protect murderers money launderers and other criminals justice has to be done and i do wish i wasnt the country protecting these people was it it was your fellow politicians the royal servants like you were either turning a blind eye or actively perverting the course of justice and pushing for that to happen it still has to happen im pushing for that to happen just about all who exactly was and is protecting murderers in malta who 1st of all when it comes to the assassination of the phenomena galatea we have a judicial process going gone now because the alleged killers have been brought to justice but you know more than this dont you you know more than this you mean i know more than this you know more you talk about murderers being protected im asking you very simply whos protecting them on malta who i keep on saying well i will keep on pushing for all the truth to come out but youre not answering my question im asking you i cannot give you a not no course in the bones of because of their names why did general to the police if there are investigations i can assure you that im doing my duty in my only being to the police. Im doing my duty that i thought there was that means because you kept a 1000000 as i will who was clearly more corrupt than he should have been. Hugely so i will i will keep on pushing for all the truth to come out and they will stake my reputation and that how do we know that when you wont you know judge you sit in front of the camera and you wont tell me what you will be judged i will be trashed by what happens but its this is exactly this climate of silence and these networks of criminal corruption that created the permissive environment and allowed someone to believe they could get away with the killing of Daphne Corona gurlitz and silence free journalism they have done more but i havent got away with it they havent thought of it we have had political assassinations before and no one was brought to justice at least in this case weve started doing these things just isnt the end of as story no its not the end of the story and that cannot be the end of the story at all the truth is uncovered and by the by admitting that it isnt the end of the story you know that the story goes further than you know that this network that arranged for her assassination hasnt come to light yet has it but this phone says we have to keep on pushing for all the truth to be on 5 or. We only have your word that youll do that and with that will do it it will happen to have the commitment of the Prime Minister of israel and the minister for the interior who has started taking a courageous decision but this investigation was tainted from the start with and to do that is of no loss some of the council of europe one that a series of magistrate should have been taken off the case because of conflicts of interest likewise the investigating Police Officer force claims that sayed said were made by the minister of the interior but progress in the investigation if thats not an investigation tainted with an exam because it did give results and 11 important point in all this is that there are other services involved including the report so even if there are elements who want to cover up that information is available to the force beyond so that there is a good guarantee that the whole truth will come out. Definite khurana gilead. Didnt have much that was nice to say about you did she. Understand the 2016 she wrote if bipolar were decent and honest with the of stuck with the labor party since the 1970 is of course not decent and honest people left in droves when they saw what was going on shes right isnt she and no i dont think so and i dont agree with her comment i respect what you have done but i think she was very prejudiced against him and if you were decent would he have allowed himself to be part of muskrats power hungry bandwagon because the via and others worked it out from the outside he had to have known it from the inside that they were planning corrupt deals and i dont agree with him because i did in my own little way and im not trying to kill. Put myself in the in the role of a knight in the shining garment in my own little way i did what i could to train change things since ive entered politics and these problems that shes writing about she didnt write like that and the other part was in government i have tried to bring about changes in my own lives the other guy he wasnt just corrupt as youre aware that is a but i beg to differ i beg to differ. She reported what she saw in front of she reported what she saw going on in malta the time she will be as per the way should try to leave before that i think its unfair and a bit unbalanced just about all if you want mortars reputation really spray youre going to have to prove that this new government is better than the last one so for the sides are so far the signs are good no i dont think its the other you care on the going to sound the son of death he says must get theres still the power behind the throne the Huge Networks of influence and fanatical support in the label bertie no i dont agree with matthew and the steps that have been taken during this month shows that there is a new good will to get things done really look no further than the minute we can self and his family have been happy with the person who has been investigating the death of their of their money because they did not they did not say the investigator was corrupt so i didnt say i didnt say they did but look no further than the man with the new justice portfolio Edward Zammit described as a family friend of the muskets used to go on holiday with them but i can tell you again that the new serbs of have been taken in the last month shows that there is a new good will we will be judged not repeat not but what you are saying now but what will happen in the next weeks and in the next month it really doesnt look very much like it when the contracts of the government awarded a contract to the disgraced former minister conrad mitzi the man you wanted to resign after he was named in the panama paper he was offered a job as tourism consultant on 80000. 00 euros a year which had to be counselled rapidly of interest huge public and if not a new say this government then that is it was can sit yes and so going to through public no rush no i dont agree but why was he given as a contract in the 1st place if he was about to be illegal rubbish a new broom sweeping up the corruption you bring them up one of the ways tell. Rightly tell me that contract was done before before the change not after that wasnt the contract signed but under did new Prime Minister and without public pressure he would have kept you know not you totally disagree and they know what im telling you there was a lot of internal pressure and the board through the minister if you want a better reputation for malta a lot of people are going to have to tell the truth about the corruption the murder and weve been pretty far from that arent we especially given the continue attacks were seeing on free journalism in malta to report what youve actually taught journalists what work they do a lot of not what are some for Nuclear Watchdog Reporters Without Borders spoke last october of a hostile environment for independent. Youre shaking your head leave us alone for going to rome dont journalists in malta and the prevalence of lawsuits to silence Public Interest reporting they dont know what theyre talking about you know nowhere in the sense that im not saying that they dont know what theyre talking but again you might find the business contradictory but its true we have liberalized freedom of the press and loss of tributed the press in the last 7 years we have decriminalized libel cases they are referring to a number of cases but too shy to give the impression that that is rampant and that journalism in malta is in is in jeopardy or a risk is not fair malta is youre only for low if you are twaddle or what journalists strike and its very robust and very strong criticism of what goes on more to it says is unique among you countries for having extensive political control of the news media the 2 main Political Parties own their own t. V. And radio stations as well as both the daily and weekly print media and online portals and the International Center for press and media freedoms at the worst risk for malta was a lack of political independence in the media haywood again defend their reality of a mike ross state where you either have to have an excuse not just because you smith is trying to explain because whole how can you have a small newspaper which is viable a mortar its a there you either have a Political Party doing it or you have the state doing Good Business organizations dont find viable to have a media talk on a slick it is a big challenge to try and understand how to have a media system in malta which is part of the checks and balances in a Democratic Society but i repeat that is coming out of the reality of our microstate and its not only more that has this perhaps the most unpleasant aspects of your party has been its attempts to dehumanize stuff nicole and the girl its not just words she was alive but after her murder. An undercover investigation into secret restricted labor party hate groups online published by the digital paper the shift showed labor Party Supporters celebrating her killing within hours of the crime being committed the journalist was described in the Facebook Post as an evil witch who should burn in hell are you proud of this part of your definitely not and that still clearly an acceptable and they made it very clear that therefore stockily accepted and totally unacceptable and i hope and at least happy that in the last month even the National Monument where there is a memorial to her has not been disturbed at all and they really hope that nearer the sun has a little more of a good day on the hill it is a great deal more or not to celebrate them saying that that pleased that this happened and they really hope that very nearby there would be a monument to her for what they were that she did the part that should be a devolved investigate who investigating corruption these facebook groups were actually administered by and home to senior government and labor Party Officials at one point the Prime Minister himself former Prime Minister was part of it what does that tell you about your beloved global pirtle that part i dont like and its part of the local political culture which is not nice of the local political culture to celebrate her assassination calling her relatives a family of animals and completely unacceptable but there are fortunately its part of the terminology sometimes the local political culture which if something was used because the labor Party Supporters as red you think of all the water bill to get a new reputation with all this behind you have done to your room as i said you have to change change is painful but it would be morphine painful if we dont change every spatola thanks very much for being employed culprits thank you. He. Has been working in middle east fields for many years has no Legal Protection no rights and barely enough to live on. In june a new law came into effect and. For him and about 350000 other Migrant Workers it meant hope but their dreams of legal status to have been dashed some good under. 30 minutes on d. W. Just said it was only 6 when he drowned in the shore a river as people looked on. His teen year old heiko was shot dead in the forest by border guards. During the cold war era more than 30 children and young people were either killed or left to die on the in. German border the berlin wall youngest victims. In 75 minutes on d w. How does a virus spread. Why do we panic and when will all this. Computer through the tax from cover and the weekly radio show is called spectrum if you would like any information on the coronavirus or any other science topic you should really check out our podcast you can get it wherever you get your podcasts you can also find us at d. F. W. 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Democratic president ial candidate joe biden and his newly chosen running mate camelot harris have made their 1st joint Campaign Appearance harris is the 1st woman of color on a Major Party Ticket said the United States was crying out for leadership and was experiencing a moral reckoning with racism and systemic injustice that had brought a new coalition demanding change. Hundreds of women