Very much for joining us here on the show where my guests are Helena Marshall an environmental activist with fridays for future she says to put a stop to Global Warming we need to change the way we do things and to do so now also with us is denial to read all from the business and finance paper i dont splot who argues that if the economy doesnt pick up then well be going right back to where we started because theres no more funding for Climate Friendly modernization. And the very warm welcome to the stuff on rum stores hes a climatologist of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact research he believes the Climate Crisis is far more serious than the corona pandemic. Thank you all 3 for being here thank you all 3 for your statements id like to begin. You havent heard Climate Change activists that you are. Im guessing that was perhaps a moment in your life when you said or thought to yourself we cant go on like this you know there was such a moment tell us about it was more like a process i was always kind of hearing of the Climate Crisis but like so many people like and could mostly put it out of my mind you know focus on my everyday life because you know for us here in europe not places the Climate Crisis is not affecting our daily right reality yet. But then the special report from the i. P. C. C. To 1. 00 degrees came out and you know quite simply black and white it said we only have this if you 2 budget left and that will be about 9 or half years and if we dont have our emissions by 2030 were going have a real problem and i feel like that was the moment connected with the intense heat we had in germany that summer that caused a lot of people to rethink if this is really a problem we can keep ignoring and keep putting out of our mind and then you know a lot of people in germany or in europe and around the world a lot of young people felt the same way and i guess yeah and it was really great to connect with other young people who usually you know had the same worries and then we started taking to the streets and i guess it kind of took off from there ok youve mentioned the science or one of the scientists behind that science is different im still from you say stuff from the pandemic. You know is obviously a crisis for humanity for Global Crisis but its not half as bad as well as Global Warming might turn out to be tell us more thats frightening yeah thats not because i think corona pandemic is harmless but because i just know as a climate scientist how much more serious the Climate Crisis will be for us its just developing much more slowly but as i see it it is a threat to civilization and it will last far far longer than the corona crisis which we think will have overcome in. A couple of years science will of found medication maybe a vaccine and we will be over it whereas we are triggering no changes to the and arctic ice sheet for example that will make sea level continue to rise for thousands of years we are pumping so much c o 2 in the atmosphere its more been in the last 3000000 years and it will be with us for tens of thousands of years so this is going to be a very long lasting crisis situation for many generations to come do not you to have been following developments on a recently what insights have you taken away from the from the battle to contain the pandemic. Where. The pandemic came as a crisis that out of the blue like like a meteorite or Something Like that that hit us and then we always found us. From one day to the other in this lockdown situation and i think theres nothing positive about the lockdowns really hit the economy very very hard and so when we now try to least hard the economy to come back into the new normal to return to growth to return to growth yes i think we have to do it in a Climate Friendly way because as dita rightly said. The verb the Climate Crisis will take a very long and its a long. Its a mouse and not a sprint. Ive introduced the idea of growth to the discussion because i think it is going to be very much of the hub of what were going to be talking about today and i just wonder if you know should the growth be be the metric for humanitys well big. One i think we dont have a better metric. For. For the Economic Development of the world so i think we should stick to that but we have to see what lies behind disclose what makes. The economy growing so we should find. Ways to do in today for example the cost souls. Of pollution climate gas Climate Change into the economy so that we have for example for c o 2 a price. So that it. Into the economic models what does the Climate Change Community Learned from the last several months while i have learned that politicians can actually act because weve been watching this for decades and decades with all nice words nice announcements even the Paris Agreement a treaty that was signed that is legally binding on reducing the emissions to keep warming to well below 2 degrees celsius and then we see politicians actually dont deliver or what theyre nice words are promising but with corona i was really surprised how politicians you know they could have acted a bit faster apparently a while to grasp how quickly the exponential growth meant that the cases explode basically if they had acted just one or 2 weeks earlier would have avoided a lot of coronas spread but by and large in europe i think the politicians have acted quite strongly and we have managed to not only flatten the curve but but get it down really very very far if you compare that to the United States or to brazil you can see what a huge difference of policy and governments really can make if they want to and that raises my hopes that probably. Decisions might also realize their own power and see that they can also solve the Climate Crisis and phony they want to. Think i would agree with a lot of what was just said we can see the huge difference between politics that is guided by science and which is. Strongly orientated onto the scientists galatea and the differences when we look to the us for example where science doesnt play a role at all into the response of the coronavirus and i feel like that is this. You know in germany thousands of people every day are listening to lead but just to austin in as much cost every single day and hearing what is the the Newest Development in the current us and that is exactly the kind of mindset we need only look at the Climate Crisis because we can only use the decisions would only be right if we can prove that they are actually reducing our c o 2 missions and that they are actually going to be effective and then. Suddenly we havent seen that development so the next things that have been decided in germany when you look at the phase out of coal into 2038 that is entirely moving away from the reality that we need to phase i call by 2030 in order to stay in line by 1 point one degrees so i feel like we are still seeing a start divide between how politics was done in the corona to the coronavirus and how politics is being done concerning the Climate Crisis. Having said all this sort of optimistic note so you know one german do newspaper commentators said in the building that sides on the belly newspaper said. There is no want to museums there is no utopia no idealism to this point in time people want to get back to normal that can be very good for your calls. Well the question is what is normal and i feel like. You know. Trying to create create the status quo that was before corona is not an option because that was a status quo that was a crisis the Current Crisis with their the way we are using our Energy Systems the way we were using mobility the way the world was working in a crisis fundamentally so obviously i can see that people you know change is hard and change is difficult and why people dont want to change is obvious but if you like. We should look at the systems that are behind so you know obviously we need to fly less and obviously we need to you know change how we consume goods and services and so on but that is i dont like a tiny fraction of power how we need to change the world because a lot of the changes happen as much more is much bigger we need to change the way our Energy Systems work and that is a change that will happen politically feel like this this this back to normal i dont i dont really care if my neighbor wants to get things back to normal i do care about the cuts for the american wants to get things back to more because thats not an option ok were going to talk about the american just dont answer one for one last word before we move on you have said the new normal wont do it the old one yes because the court of ours has to do with us so so we have to keep this in mind and done to look at what happens with a pandemic and we have to change any way we can of course include changes towards. Dealing with the Climate Change. Together. Ok corona. Economies across the world struggling with serious recession with terrible hardship and with poverty that is only imaginable but the pandemic has also in some ways a positive impact and so a quick look. The indian capital new delhi before and after the lockdown. The same story at the great wall of china. The lagoons of venice tranquil no tourists or cruise ships the Coronavirus Crisis caused global c o 2 emissions to plunge the farthest since the 2nd world war at an annualized rate of 8 percent no country had ever managed that before of its own accord but climate activist Scientists Say thats no reason to relax mitigation efforts must be redoubled unless we act fast by 2025 the c o 2 level in the air will be the highest its been for 3300000 years. The latest example of extreme weather the heat wave in the arctic 38 degrees celsius in northern russia and forest fires burning out of control. Scientists say we need the equivalent of a 3 month lockdown every year for decades to keep Global Warming under 2 degrees. Will we fight Climate Change as decisively as the coronavirus. But is the question in the efforts to further combat covert 19 of been incredibly swift and decisive and robust and by comparison there is this sort of sense that were lagging a little bit behind the goals that. We have set for ourselves why exactly are we letting mouth off we have were being too distracted by the corona crisis were taking our eyes off of the ball well the thing is that the Climate Crisis just develops in slow motion and every year politicians find some reason why there is some more crisis or financial corona whatever every year is just not the right year to make decisive decisions to cut the emissions and that has just been going on for too many decades. Its and now you know its not just that were too slow on a global scale emissions are still rising and so we havent even turned the corner. Let alone lowering emissions fast enough just to give you one number to fulfill the Paris Agreement and limit warming to well below 2 degrees centigrade we need to cut global emissions in half by 2030 thats only 10 years from now and after that of course we have to go to a net 0 emissions thats the only way to a stable climate again have you lost your momentum. There. Is. No good you know youre saying nothing is saying as well do not resign as well that we know we need to urgently we need to search clear goals we need to achieve those goals by yesterday that didnt happen you know losing your momentum well i think the momentum is still that because then we look at you know what are the statistics of society so in germany for instance a half people think the Climate Crisis is the most urgent problem so that is that is a majority that is still of that good study that was not so feel good statement that thats what people would say yes but obviously that also shows the priority theres a priority in society that we want to deal with this crisis and we look we look at the coalface out there was a majority against giving billions of euros to Coal Companies so i dont think the momentum is gone that comic crisis is still very much in the forefront of a lot of people minds and of course we cant protest in the same way of course we cant be millions of people in the streets like before corona but just because the Climate Movement maybe is not as intact as it was before the crisis does not mean that we dont need to be just as aggressive and just as radical with dealing with the Climate Crisis whats your goal and when will you know that youve achieved it. I mean thats obviously really difficult we look at we want to keep in line with 1. 5 degrees because that is what is you know going to make sure that we that we have a highest chance at not you know over reaching Tipping Point in our consciousness or not as obviously what were fighting for because that is scientifically what is going to give us the biggest chance at a future. Reaching that is of course extremely difficult when you look at how hard it is to get things moving in any direction when we look at politics in germany when you look at politics in europe. Extremely behind. But we see we see progress being made because when we look at the when we look at the reality in society its were ready the theres a huge readiness for change and what needs to happen is that the parliaments need to stop acting. Part you know that completely disconnected with what is actually societal reality at this point and if theyre acting in 1000. 00 then wed be a whole lot of you know whole lot further in lot of what we have discovered in the in the last 6 months or so the way weve begun to sort of review the way we see the states in the role the potential role of the State Government in states were always part are often viewed as part of the problem rather than part of the solution now we have here in germany at least and i think its an interesting insight weve come to the conclusion that the state can be part of it can be a hands on problem solving partner in the future of the Climate Crisis and how we reorganize our societies to bring more justice to our societies. And i mean what we see in this corner classes is that at least the German Government doesnt want to go back to the economy like it has been before but they try to restart it in a Climate Friendly way so they have all the investments. They. Spending in the next 2 years all have some some green touch in them. That is i mean its a success of writers for future. But this issue has become so prevalent in or the discussions on the political level and i mean i havent heard anybody doing the discussions about what we do about the common crisis who did not say we have to solve the Climate Crisis and. The problem of getting the society digitalized. In all it wants so actually thats the difference between the situation that we had before ok lets have a quick listen to what chancellor merkel has had to say about the juncture where we currently find ourselves in the kind of things that do not i was just talking about. Believe me thats what apart from the pandemic were living in the time in which our way of life and the economy are facing radical transformation driven by 2 developments Climate Change and digitalization we have to tackle Climate Change by reducing c o 2 emissions until were see how to neutral view did you tell you digitalisation this changing the way we work and interact with the fundamental way at an incredible speed to. Transform ational growth and transformational change is what chancellor merkels talking about when when you talk about transformational change im guessing you mean Something Different tell us about the differences. I mean its great what shes saying i cant do that you know the problem is its not enough to say things you know in the end it comes down to how many tons of c o 2 we actually would use and i mean i dont see it as rosy as a lot of we thought that for instance we saved tons of with 9000000000 euros and we didnt and there were no restrictions you know connected with that money so when france gave in decided to save air france they said france need to reduce this year 2 missions and they need to stop putting doing flights with in france and so on so theres so much will that could have been done and needs to be done and so the the consequent the consequences out of words are not being taken and are not actually being put into practice and. Thats going to mean that that is for the fundamental problem that the the own scientific. People that are that are supposed to tell them what to do you are telling us its not enough what shes doing and then have politics are not even in line with what her own people are saying. Stuff and im interested in 2 concepts that have cropped up while ive been sort of reading into the story this week post growth and de gross tell us about the limits to growth tell us how how how do we organize a society with where we reduce emissions keep. Boosting society jobs and transforming society and jobs the way we work how do you do that well im not an economist im a climate scientist and my main concern is that we fulfill the Paris Agreement and that means already mentioned cutting emissions by half within 10 years and some interesting jobs no of course not it just means investing in the right kind of businesses the right kind of technologies and that is where the stimulus package is really important its fantastic that governments suddenly discover that they have lots of money they can spend. In previous years they never had money to spend enough on building say Renewable Energy worth taking sums we were talking to exactly yeah but if we put these amounts of money to work we cant just prop up the old fossil industries and go back to business as before we have to invest this into the industries and businesses and energy of the future that is going to does not mean that people working in the aviation sector in the in the automotive sector or wherever they just sort of victims of his true value in the wrong place at the wrong time if they go to go a bit like the typewriter industry you can provide the typewriter industry when the Computers Come up and so of course you need to make a socially fair transformation and people may have to go into new jobs or whatever you know im all in favor of of having really good social policy there but it doesnt mean subsidizing fossil fuels for the future but the lady on my right says that there are no move from so very little for these kind of investments. For transform nation. Economy because i mean the investment packets. The government lots and lots and lots into clean energy and. Climate friendly. Is a model. Of the economy. Of cause. My. Always say its not enough and i think if you just look on climate they are right but if you also look on society and how it has to change i mean. I would be against shutting down the whole. Automotive industry at once you cant do that because im in. Poverty in the workforce and i think you will need some time to the airlines and you will need some kind of automotives also in the future but you have to find ways in how you can. Change these industries into being Climate Assembly and to get the carbon out of. Them ok that was done. Elements of the blueprint that was supposed to come up for dealing with Climate Change give me your recommendation your top recommendation i mean the potential is huge green jobs and jobs with you know small c o 2 emissions which is education bridges you know health and care of elderly which is you know Renewable Energy which is in there you know renewable sector for building and so on and so on that in those jobs have been shown by economists that they bring more growth if we if we hold on to that concept they bring more jobs per invested euro and they bring in in the shorter time they bring more rebates and honest so so were seeing every front so its actually so logical to to. You know investments that to put money than a good idea where we can get that money tops into the 37000000000 euros in fossil fuel subsidies. Does per year so theres obviously money that we just need to shift and you know reevaluate our priorities and that we need not we dont just do that in the future sometime next year we should now so many you know decide whether vestments now we need to you know put yeah yeah you know make the priorities clear right now as well and im not Strong Enough yet or if you go to put on our blueprint for. 30 seconds ok the time scale of doing this is set by the Paris Agreement and so having global emissions in 10 years down to 0 by the mid century and thats not what we want that was what the world agreed upon ok. Great discussion i hope weve given you plenty of food if you have come back next week until then bye bye. In 2015 the refugee crisis was given a phase. On coumadin a 3 year old syrian boy drowned while fleeing to greece. His father survived the tragedy. Years later hes trying to make a new start in iraq. How is he coming. 3000. And 30 minutes on d w. This is a true story so hard to believe said to the fans i am the 1970s its about building the worlds 1st commercial space center. In the lead roles of a german visionary brave engineers a fake some just and a very real dictator. Flying rockets flying. To. Cause or. Literature invites us to see people in particular. To see herself as the kids find strength growing up her. Abductor to share work. To do the books on youtube. We know this is a scary time for us the coronavirus is changing the world changing. So please take care of yourself keep your distance wash your hands if you can stay at how we do w. Me for here for you we are working tirelessly to keep you informed on all of our platforms we are all in this together run together to make a difference. Stay safe everybody in the states and stay safe stay safe increase is to say. This is deja vu news live from berlin european leaders try to bridge deep divisions over our corona recovery but there convene in the convening for an e. U. Summit at this hour in brussels where theres. Over a 750000000000 euro package to help a cop greece hard hit by the pandemic well go live to our correspondent
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