From the ruling feet best party is the government being honest about his motives or is its new law just the latest move to cement or thora tarion rule. But actually a very good welcome to conflicts on yes hello good morning why did your Prime Minister need an emergency law to deal with a pandemic everyone else relies on testing tracing quarantines lockdowns but you have to have a law that goes after people who criticize the author already is why. Well very simply everything has been done according to the hunger constitution the government the pandemic when the virus situation began declared a state of danger it can do it for 2 weeks and following the 2 weeks is the hungry in parliament that has the right to decide whether to prolong it or not and thats whats happened in parliament decided to prolong the situation as long as the pandemic was there we are now nearing the end thankfully of the emergency situation it has been take up tackled quite well it seems thanks god and thanks to the good efforts of the government so were coming to the and of this state of emergency a state of danger very similar things and very similar special. Orders and special decisions have been made across the European Union for that matter to do you accept that but they havent they havent cracked down on people who criticize the authorities the way you have this virus has in effect just given your government the opportunity for grabbing more power and cracking down on opposition hasnt it you didnt need these positive thoughts or you didnt need these powers at all. Not at all thats far from the truth in fact the hunger in government the christian democratic or call the has a 2 thirds majority in the hungary and parliament why would we have to do anything to increase our power we have an extraordinarily Strong Political mandate thanks to be hungry and population and paying through the results of the last elections we didnt crack down or anything we just have to deal with a situation that was extraordinary in every sense of the word mr ball actually im thankful that you say you didnt crack down but the police said last week hunger and police said last week that opened nearly 90 cases of scaremongering against citizens since your emergency law took effect lets be honest this is nothing but a concerted attempt to stamp out criticism of the government and its policies and that it has nothing to do with criticism of the governmental criticism of political issues quite simply during a state of danger and during a state of pandemic that has been as dangerous as this one control has to be accomplished but theyre courting to the law and according to the constitution rule of law works of hungary very well and if there was no ground. To go after anybody for or for of scaremongering or any other thing then the case was closed according to the law so there actually the special order in a special situation has shown that it was under control and it was according again to the constitution your law makes clear that its not just going after people who put out false facts youre even going after people who according to this law section 337 paragraph one mis represent true facts in other words if the government doesnt like the way people interpret their facts they could face up to 5 Years Imprisonment couldnt they. And thats free speech on the aerial star its not about this no not its not its not it has nothing to do with political opinion it has nothing to do with free speech or liberty of thought it has to do with spreading fake information force information that have nothing to do with the facts under a situation during a situation where there is increased danger of the population because of a pandemic you have to make sure that only reality and real facts are transmitted well not only your reality good news only your reality only the reality that the government sees 2 cases were brought to the attention of the hungary and Civil Liberties union which condemned the detention of 2 facebook users who criticize the government and the conversation of their communication devices as obviously excessive you happy about that Police Excessive behavior. There was no Police Excessive behavior of these people the 2 people that you mentioned were let free within some hours within the same day after their case was looked at let me tell you this in germany over the past few months almost 40 cases were reported where police one tough to people because of commons because of posts on facebook and other social Media Outlets there is an incredible there is an extraordinary situation and on top of it on social media all kinds of news are transmitted and forth or it is across the European Union or across the whole world i might say are trying to find a way to deal with that so with that public order is maintained and also the rights of everybody are respected mr wallace you said the 2 people were released in the case of one of them and just cushions in the north of the country the case was dropped but not before police had uploaded a video on the internet of him being escorted from his home and into a police car thats trial by internet this is nothing more than thuggish intimidation by your police isnt it and it was condemned by the hunger in Civil Liberties. Committee as having a Chilling Effect on many ordinary social media users thats exactly what its meant to do isnt it to have this Chilling Effect scare the population into silence and eradicate criticism. Not not at all in fact if you look at the Public Discourse if you look at hungary in politics if you look at the parliament we have one of the most vibrant debates here across the whole European Union where the whole range of various opinions and different points of views are presented and can be presented in verse right that way theres no intimidation at all those. Those are. Commentaries have nothing to do with reality i dont think well you may not like the accusations against your country and well will look at some of them in detail but your denials that hungary was undertaking any anti democratic moves havent exactly been believed have they and particularly now we have the Reporters Without Borders organization saying that youve passed an orwellian law that introduces a full blown Information Police state in the heart of europe i give you a couple of examples which were criticized by the hungary and Civil Liberties union and you reject them out of hand you said in the past the accusations against hungary are false hungry has a free and independent world of justice science and education i wonder who on earth did you think was going to believe you when you said these things when the evidence to the country is so overwhelming. I dont think the evidence is overwhelming at all against the hungary and government in fact if you look at the results of of a series of elections in hungary free elections them practical actions the think Us Government has won one after the other because the people believe that the country is in good hands the people believe the majority of people believe that the government is doing a good job and they would like it to continue to do a good job also there are debates at the european level that i debate in the European Parliament there are debates amongst has of state and government and all spokesmen coast on which whose opinion matters but there are debates political debates by the way the law the special though about the coronavirus in hungary that was in the in the middle of so much criticism some weeks ago was looked at in detail by the European Commission which is the guardian of the treaties of how the European Union works and they found that in no way did it go against any democratic norm or european law and they said that repeatedly so there is a difference between a Political Campaign there is a difference between pressure groups saying you know what they would like to say because their ideology their very values are different from the few just government and the and the difference between that and the fact and the real look at facts and reality and the real record of the government well lets look at what some of your people think about that according to one survey between march the 3rd and march the 10th by the Friedrich Ebert foundation 50 percent off of your citizens now think that conditions for democracy and press freedom have worsened in hungary this was before your emergency law and the only 17 percent 17 thought that theyd been any progress in that field in those fields doesnt say much for your democratic credentials does it. I dont think so there are several surveys in fact only able to confirm is a well known the social democratic or foundation its very nice no problem with it youre saying it slant it out into other surveys youre saying its likely that i just said the fact im just understand the fact that its a social Democratic Foundation in its value system and perhaps that has an influence sometimes on how they interpret findings but im not questioning their fining im just saying that there are several surveys but the most Important Survey of course is always in a democracy elections parties go for elections defeaters government has been reelected 3 times with an overwhelming majority and that has you something i think about the real record of the government and the real situation hungry that is worth looking at i think i want to come on to the topic of elections and how you manage them and how youve changed various laws relating to elections since since you came to power but lets just look at the press you maintain that hungary has a Diverse Press and free speech and criticism of the government is allowed the fact is your government does go around smearing the few independent journalists in your country who are left as hungry haters foreign agents or traitors doesnt it and it does use its enormous Financial Resources to try and put independent journalists out of business as the joint International Press Freedom Mission to hungary reported last year state advertising has been weaponized to fund progovernment media and staff independent outlets did you seriously think mr hill vaguely that people didnt notice what was going on. Well they are drawing the wrong conclusions obviously if they say such things in fact political debate as i said before and Public Discourse in general is one of the freest in the European Union is more taboo free than in many other places in western europe or elsewhere in the European Union topics are freely discussed there is more of a balance of media if you look at the media structure and if you look at the value system behind the medias or what kind of ideology they prefer there there is a big variety of hungry perhaps more of a variety than in other places that these organizations are are used to state funding and advertising as much as this is state or as much as it is companies is spread across the board so i dont think there is when you use any you say that in balance in the hunger and situation at home you say that but all Regional Daily newspapers are now under government control and and you call that a free press theres only one independent Political Daily newspaper left and thats imbued a past with a circulation of just 20000 by contrast the network of Regional Daily papers controlled by the government reaches 200000 people one single independent talk Radio Station whose audience is restricted to be the past and you call that a fair balance. Well thats just thats not the whole of the picture there are other regional newspapers and theres not only print media obviously and theres not only traditional radio frequencies there is now also the internet and if you look at for example internet based news portals if you look at political weekly newspapers both printed and online if you look at all they really are stations there is a balance here and there are in fact there are in fact if you look at the online world a heavy bias or heavy advantage towards the critical media towards the government Freedom House accused your government of dropping any pretense of respecting Democratic Institutions taking over much of the media it said and harrison Critical Society organization hungarys decline it out it has been the most precipitous ever tracked in that survey of nations in transit thats not much to be proud of is it. Well our Freedom House once was an organization that the virus back to i dont think there analyses over the past couple of years have been trustworthy or based on facts in fact let me pose the question to you if it were true just respect of your argument if it were true there was that there was so little freedom or no freedom in the media or in the Public Discourse in hungary then why and how could we have such a lively debate about political issues in hungary about social issues in hungary about the European Union and there and a whole range of other issues in hungary then it would be an impossible to have those debates there is now more of a need for prepress free press and angrier than ever before isnt there especially since corruption has blossomed under your partys rule in september 29th in europe santy fraud office oluf warned that when it came to misappropriation of e. U. Funds hungary was the worst performing state in the e. U. Nearly 4 percent of e. U. Provided money was misused and should have been returned during the 20142018 reporting period thats pretty shameful isnt it they were looking at in fact of all of situations and projects that go back to the time before the government the European Parliament was just voting by the way this past week about. About some of those reports and the functioning of all of and other agencies those go back to as far as 200520067 those were years before if you just government began to function now in a more general sense but trying the 14 to 2018 weve had time to give the money back there is. There is there is corruption everywhere obviously in the e. U. And they have to be looked into if you look at the way for example investigations by the Public Prosecutor and by police are initiated based on recommendations by all of this European Union union agency hungary is amongst the best in fact performers of the percentage of how many. Cases are looked into following a lot of things there are similar cases with other European Union Member States i reject the opinion that there would be more corruption or significantly more corruption in hungary than in an average situation in the region or in the in the European Union well it must be a comfort for you and other members of your party the fetus now enjoys an effective stranglehold over prosecutors offices the Constitutional Court the curia the highest court of appeal and the audit office grand slam to your party to total total control of the organs and just all that is not the case of paul that is not the case at all that is an often repeated political attack by a frustrated hungry an opposition that hasnt been able to win elections for a good number of National Elections now they are frustrated they have been unsuccessful but that doesnt make truthful there was accusations that you have just repeated well after mr obama came to power he raised the number of justices on the Constitutional Court from 11 to 15 thereby appointing 4 of his own judges even lower the compulsory retirement age for judges and prosecutors freeing up hundreds of posts for candidates loyal to the party so having all your party sympathizers in such key judicial positions is hardly a down t. Of impartiality is. 1st of all the 2nd thing you mentioned the pension age that has been redrawn it has not been in a fact and raising the number of judges in the Constitutional Court was simply. A reaction to the number of cases before the Constitutional Court those those appointments are not by the way not by department of state but they are by parliament and they are not for life so there is obviously a normal functioning of the judges being on the Constitutional Court and then the Parliament Meeting new ones so nothing really changed just because the number was increased misstate vega just to guarantee complete control your party set up a National Judiciary office run by 2 and a hand though who just happened to be a student contemporary of mr or bans and the way it was set up made it impossible for parliament to sack or shes been unassailable for her 9 year term hasnt she with power of this kind by your party the Justice System is almost guaranteed to be biased in your favor. Not at all she is no longer by the way leader of that organization she is now a member of the Constitutional Court and theyre reliably debates within the judicial system there is another party to the National Council and they have had lively debates over the past couple of years and thats right that way theres no problem with that at all just another illustration that the system works we have debates and then there are comes that are a result of like lively debate yes but she was in a position where she could veto judicial promotions and even influence which judges heard which cases thats a lot of power just as i did in your job like in a number of other just like just like in a number of other e. U. Member states that can happen there are e. U. Member states where is the minister of justice who makes those appointments there are countries that dont even have a Public Prosecutor there are countries that where there is no formal Constitutional Court there are different constitutional identities and systems within the European Union and they are all democratic just the fact that they are different does not mean that they are undemocratic there are different ways to organize the judicial system when youre having a hard days youre having a hard time convincing people in the rest of europe about your democratic credentials lets look if we may add to that other democratic feature that you prize elections which you talked about. After 2010 your party wasted no time in redrawing the electoral map in hungary it changed constituency boundaries to favor your own supporters and riding roughshod over objections in other words gerrymandering was rife wasnt it. It wasnt the system was made thinner we have reduced the number of members of parliament from over 382 are to just 199 we have streamlined the electoral system there was no gerrymandering and in fact if you look at the the latest local elections for 4 townships the opposition one important positions for instance mayor of budapest was taken over the post of mayor of good press was taken over by the opposition as well as they wanted a number of other countries and municipalities there is again a well functioning democratic system both the all we see the United Nations observers and others. Confirmed that theres no democratic problem with hungary an electoral system and there was no gerrymandering let me go back to your point that you mentioned in your question you said we had difficulty convincing our European Partners i think you said about hungary and democracy on the contrary its our political opponents that dont want to accept that there can be a government a conservative christian democratic government that is strong that is decisive and successful lets talk in the brief time we have left about your countrys treatment of migrants youve made it perfectly clear you dont want them in hungary youve refused routinely to take them in and share the burden with the rest of the e. U. And now youve been found to be in breach of e. U. Law earlier this month the European Court of justice found your detention of Asylum Seekers on the border with serbia to have been illegal its a damning indictment of hungarys treatment of Asylum Seekers in the. There is a debate right now and its partly a legal debate and its a bit about european law and asylum or you mentioned this verdict of the European Court of justice i mention other one just a few months ago that of the european core court of human rights this in strasbourg unwilling to the council of europe they all saw looked at a very similar case about the transit zone and how migrants or Asylum Seekers are treated by hungry and they found that the transit zone in hungary or the border of hungry was not detention at all or since it is open towards serbia in that particular case and not im not closed well thats why the european you say that but the European Court of justice mr vega the European Court of justice said you detain 2 families seeking asylum in a border transit zone for more than a year giving them the opportunity to have their detention reviewed by a court and with no opportunity to lawfully leave that zone of their free will in any direction how does illegal detention fit in with your much trumpeted views about protecting Europes Christian heritage whats christian about that sort of behavior. Let me be very quick they are not attack not detained they can leave that transit zone whenever they want toward serbia from where they came from these families i think christian responsibility means that you help people where they are you take have where help is needed instead of bringing the problem into the European Union that is unable to deal with hundreds of thousands or millions of migrants coming into this continent thats not the way forward the past 5 years have shown very clearly that so thats an interesting excuse thats an interesting excuse me state of a given amount which you which are not with the bible teachings which bible teaching sanction forced and illegal detention of travelers and migrants who have nothing there is no force and theres not for theres no force the tension of hunger is waters those who come and stay in the transit zone can at any time that they wish go back and leave from where they came from it is not it is not a detention europe can only deal with the hundreds of thousands of people in need in the middle east in africa elsewhere in asia if it brings together puts together a strength and takes have to those regions in need if not the interest of those regions that they that they lose their most. Best people that can work and that could have those territories to develop your rights take out to those areas there instead of instead of legalizing illegal entry into either hungary or anywhere else all right were agreeing on that for the last one and its not supported by the european people. Were out of time thank you very much for being on country. Thank you very much in the. City. Symbol of a long complex in the philippines between the muslims and the christian population. When i took you by the city president to church his response was. This is not the kind of freedom that mean one philippines in the sites go by as. 60 minutes on g. W. Environmentally conscious. Living. With maximum comfort. From tanzania is helping make it possible he started with sustainable ideas in his own home. Kitchen now hes inspiring others to innovate and his invention school eco for go. In 90 minutes on d w. The global corona tri says you can find more Information Online at e. W. Dot com and on t. W. Social media channels. Im going crazy thing in all the time. How to handle our new allies in times of the current economic d. W. Reporter keep your job is just like everyone else and shes looking for answers and thankfully with the help of ginning expect a few of the well. Thank you is not life as we know it up. In this to. Our new web series. Beethoven is for me. Is for. Beethoven is for him beethoven is for her. And beethoven is for. Beethoven is for everyone. Beethoven 2020 vision of the 50th anniversary here on d w. This is news live from beijing talks its boldest action gets to tighten its grip on Hong Kong China is signaling it will impose sweeping goals to criminalize what it calls sedition and subversion in the territory told me they say its an attack on hong kong. I dont want to think. About this
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