Transcripts For DW Conflict Zone 20240713

Is weak from brussels as the European Commission oklahoma with. That feeling. Just more easy believe you get it so wrong. Johansson welcome to conflict zone thank you weve seen high levels of disunity on show across the e. U. During this pandemic you would agree that its been a major blow to the e. U. s credibility hasnt it this disunity. No i dont agree with that at all actually we are seeing desperate actions from Member States and thats quite understandable because we are in a situation were never been before and the crisis is really really a big one but we are also seeing Member States asking for the e. U. Commission to take a stronger old to do more to coordinate more also in areas where we do not really have the mandate as a commission so i dont really agree with you on that well last month the french finance minister Bruno Lemaire said to his squabbling colleagues after an overnight meeting to try and agree a rescue package shame on you shame on europe stop this clown show do you like the epithet clown show. No but of course this is very difficult and you must understand also that all governments are under very strong pressure in a way that there havent been any anywhere before and this is a difficult situation for Member States of course to agree on things and we have seen border being closed not so coordinated man as we have seen. Restrictions and export restrictions and things like that and its difficult to come along with the new economical proposals but at the same time we have also seen when we see how things develop Member States are coming closer to each other and are asking for the commission to play a more a stronger role and we and we do that and i think that the commission ive been able to act very quickly and sometimes when i see how Member States act i make their. I do day comparison with but individuals you know when this 1st attacked us in march you can see individuals rushing to their Grocery Store shopping and shops a lot of toilet paper and pencil i understand dollars i understand commissioner but when they were needed initially when the around them it struck they werent there were they commission a president on the line said when youre really needed to be there for each other too many initially looked out for themselves when youre really needed all for one spirit too many initially gave on only for me response you say its difficult to agree to this is this is the whole point of the you know that you come you are able to agree if you can find Common Solutions to common problems whats the point of the e. U. But you have to see how things are moving the initial the initial reaction was from individuals to look at themselves from Member States to look at themselves from companies to look at themselves but quite soon their movement went in another direction asking for more coordination more cooperation and asking for the commission to play a stronger role and i think that we as a commission has also been able to to play that strong role and we still have to do it because its a long way to go before we have before vast through this and also i think that but if you ask me i would rather guess that we will come out of this with a stronger cooperation india paean union than before but of course has been initially a lot of disruptions and problem spot but it wasnt just initially it was really these Problems Commission it wasnt it wasnt just emotionally was it i mean weve had 4 failed summits by video e. U. Leaders have gone on rowing and disagreeing meeting after meeting week after week the last failed summit was on april 24th in which they were unable to resolve deep divisions over their proposed Recovery Fund in the amount of cash it should distribute my question to you is dont millions of europeans who are locked up in their homes losing their jobs finding it either tough or impossible to pay their bills many suffering food poverty for the 1st time in their life shouldnt they expect Something Better from these leaders from these member countries. Or you know its ok to agree that well may i say of course individuals should have High Expectations on the cooperation between Member States in the European Union but that we have summits that fail to come to a conclusion its not a new phenomena thats how its been all the time in the European Union and the right of that was difficult already oh read it from the beginning to find a compromise and of course now when the needs are much much bigger theres a need a much more money into this of course its not easier to come to conclusions especially not when youre not meeting face to face so i dont think that we should use this this is not in my view this is not what we are seeing is not a failure of European Union we have a lot of difficulties of course but they say these are not new difficulties and we can manage them not a not a failure brule america is a clown show and the french president emmanuel macro says if the is going to die i will die from inaction you say that you get disagreements all the time in the you but this is a critical situation this is a life and death crisis you would expect better under these circumstances wouldnt you you seem very tolerant of all this incompetence and squabbling. Well africa of course is a very christian esque critical situation and a very dangerous situation because the needs are are very bake for a lot of actions and i also think that this will lead us to that will be that the Member States will be able to come to compromise that will be acceptable and that will help us out of this so i dont think that. What we are seeing the problems we are seeing are not really new ones well you say this but none of this infighting of course is apparent from the glowing picture which emerges from the e. U. s p. R. Machine which of course presented the response in such glowing terms i have to say reminded me slightly of the old soviet newspaper proud of the when it talked about countries regions cities across the extending a helping hand to neighbors and those most in need with donations of protective equipment nothing about the fact that a lot of them were put on the temporary export bans because they were going to give italy what they wanted this is particularly france and germany and then the p. R. Machine says this is European Solidarity at its best it isnt is it i mean for you to put out a slanted view like this where the time when youre telling the world youre fighting this information is pretty hypocritical isnt it. There is a very important difference between this comparison with pravda we are a union of democracies and this is the most important thing that we stick to our values and what can actually be very some fast worries me as if there are Member States that will take this opportunity of the crisis to take stepped away from democracy and away from the rule of law and this is this is what houris me the most then we have Member States of course where the governments that are under pressures and under pressure and that is a difficult situation and when the much democracy and democratic states are coming together of course there is a lot of discussions and sometimes they are very hard feelings but i am sure thats the kind of the matter able to manage this together and i think that its very important to make a distinction we are not having any problem we are having a union of democracies well donald tusk now president of the year being Peoples Party said i hope everything can be fixed but the loss of reputation is huge hes talking about damage that the initial response is constant growing has already done and if you look at italy youve seen color and head of the pro european liberal action party declaring this is an existential threat im not sure if were going to make it you have to consider my party as one of the most pro european bodies in italy and i now have members writing to me saying why do we want to stay in the u. Its useless so there has been damage done despite the comforting words youre using today. Yeah but its also the opposite is also the way that people are really high and have High Expectations of the European Union and can also see Member States are cooperating and asking for a Stronger Commission and a stronger coordination and cooperation with india European Union and what i also see is that Member States realize that they really need each other and you can make the comparison if the if we had this crisis and we didnt have the European Union the crisis would have been huge much much worse than today so we have the opportunity to Work Together and we are working together and of course in a crisis you can see tendencies of Different Directions but there is also a lot of strong tendencies towards closer cooperation and helping each other well lets look if we may at how the commission has honed on this crisis because on february the 5th one of your officials at a closed door meeting with diplomats said things around the control there is a strong level of preparedness in Member States this was february the 5th strong level of preparedness in Member States most of measures to detect and treat covert 19 at the time 60000000 people were on the lockdown in china and everything was about to become very much out of control wasnt it. Why didnt you check with the Member States who were giving you such reassurance about their state of preparedness pretty sloppy wasnt from the commissioners we had the whole the whole area of health care and protection of a pandemic is a National Competence so Member States have this competence and they have been dealing with it but we saw when this crisis an epidemic was here was a member state asked the commission to take a stronger old even if we do not have that formal mandate to act in the area of health care and i think this is a sign that Member States would like to cooperate closer and would like to see a stronger role from the commission but you hear about the wrong message a commission has. Made may i just finish my sentence in my view the commission acted stronger and quicker than i think that most of the Member States and others could have expected and you gave out the wrong message though things were not on the control. The dangerous message to pull back and you have meant when you have and i know you have youre referring to. What i cant i cant verify your quote as there are so i dont know but if Member States are in their Member States thought they were under control of course this is the competence of the Member States but now they see that they do not deal with this a good enough alone thats why theyre asking for the commission to play like to take a stronger role and to coordinate more and we are doing that one of the things that has happened because of the lack of preparedness and the lack of coordination is that the us open the door to a whole bunch of fraudulent and corrupt procurement deals hasnt it this could take years to sort out reverse none of that gets printed in your factories those are well known. Well i think you are not really right there of course its a free to deal to have commerce. And trade with that with companies to from other part of the world but what i see from the angle of security as organized criminals has been very quick to adapt to the new situation and a lot of new opportunities for organise crimes have been obvious we saw that coming already a long time before but now it has boomed so this is a reason why we really need to step up the Law Enforcement to behave able to deal better in this Digital World that we are dealing with so this is also an area where we see the need for more cooperation between Member States more cooperation by the time of crisis that has opened the door to to organized crime in a big way in italy the european country perhaps hardest hit by this pandemic the organized crime of corruption reporting projects on the state contracts were awarded to Companies Whose heads been accused of fraud and misappropriation of public funds in slovenia the government largest i think 19 contre worth more than 25000000 euros went to a gambling mogul with no known experience in medical progress and so the list goes on this is hardly satisfactory. Well they have a lot of criminal actors of course and how we should deal with this is of course will not be easy to deal with for Member States alone we really need the cooperation and we need a strong europol to be able to deal with this and we have also been able to. Get some of these criminals also into court to court because of the cooperation between the European Union so i do not agree with you that the solution should be easier to deal with this for a Member States alone but for some for the criminals now its a field. Well some of them have been very quick to adapt to the new situation and thats why its so important that we could have the Law Enforcement fit for the digital age and in my view there is a need to do even more in this area and thats what we are proposing preparing for proposals for a new strategy lets look at the proposals for the recovery package said to be worth anything up to several trillion euros and is going to be linked apparently to the European Union budget being drafted by your commission and will be submitted to e. U. Leaders later this month and then the squabbling begins again doesnt it make squabbling because the problem is that in this package which is going to be a mixture of loans and grants theres still no agreement among states about the proportions as well and no grievance yet and theres no proposal yet so but of course its going to be difficult its always difficult to find these kind of agreements but im quite convinced that we will reach it always difficult to say its always difficult when it doesnt cut it when you have a crisis of these proportions and one of the biggest economic setbacks since the Great Depression in the 1930 s. So there is always difficult well doesnt doesnt live up to people riled expectations of the European Union do they expect more. Well i do not really agree with you on that because. People have expectations from their governments to act on National Level and they have expectations on how you peon union should act together and Member States have different views on what is the most appropriate way to act and they have also different needs and different abilities so this is when democracies and Democratic Leaders come together this is the most important thing also to discuss this to find an agreement and of course when were talking about so much money and such a big crisis nobody can say it easy to find agreement but im quite convinced we will reach it but its going to be a bump away i guess so you may be convinced that youre going to reach it but the signs are good are they the northern you states want to see mostly loans the Southern States are insisting on grants because they dont want their already massive debts piling up for leaders to come so the say is set for another enormous run of the disunity just goes on and on and the crisis will get deeper you cannot a crisis will get deeper wont it. I think well i dont im not that negative as you are i know when we have these difficult times and there are different views from Member States on how to act on bonds or. And grants or loans and this is of course nothing new and its also been a difficult already before the pandemic to find agreement on the new and the fast so of course is difficult but of course youre going to make it you know about you you have a record of failure in past crises going to be it was built on this terrible record im thinking about the the migrant issue for instance something of direct interest to you with your portfolio in the you. Heres a current snapshot of how migrants are dealt with in the motor keeping 60 of them on a ship anchored at sea until the e. U. Can really house them is that a humane response in line with the values. Well i dont not agree that the European Union is built on a failure so i think that we are being built to actually have a lot of a difficult but actually quite a sex access full cooperation of course to our difficulties and in my view. It is a failure that Member States and parliament can have not been able to reach an agreement on the proposals a common european migration and asylum proposal that was presented by the Previous Commission so this is my task now to present a new proposal that hopefully can get everybody on board and find it acceptable for everybody we have 60 migrants have that have reached they are now in another shape in canteen i think its appropriate to put newly arrived i think canteen but of course we also need more of solidarity between Member States and this is what im working on for the new proposal that im going to present you know but the commissions been calling for more solidarity on this for 5 years and just a month ago the used top court ruled that poland hungary and the Czech Republic a broken the law by refusing those refugees to help ease the burden through greece and italy so you go on crying in the wind and shouting that there needs to be more solidarity theyve no intention of coming into line with your request to share the burden of the micros poland hungary Czech Republic has no intention whatsoever. This is not true and we can see right now. Showing solidarity in practice when we are relocating unaccompanied minors from greece right now in the pandemic crisis they are being relocated to other Member States we started with 8 Member States ready to do the relocation and now we are have i think its 111 ready to do some more are joining en i have been travelling a lot before the travelling restrictions jim and i met with all the Member States to have dialogues in close rooms on the new pact on migration and asylum and of course i know from the beginning its going to be difficult there are different views and different ambitions from different Member States but i must say that after this consultation with Member States im more optimistic of their possibility to find a common solution than i was before i started this dialogue so of course a lot of things can be a commission are being you working together a lot of things are of course difficult but thats why we need also. Why we need this cooperation and how we need politicians with the ambitions to deal with this problems and i do think its possible to reach an agreement also on migration assignment so i dont know what you want though of course its difficult i dont know what your optimism is based on when you have 900000 migrants ground into account on the greek island of last boss that was built for 3000 or a dirty deal with libya seen thousands incarcerated in appalling conditions abused and even sold as slaves in programs as a result of programs that the e. U. Is funding to this day im not sure what your optimism is based on. I just tell you my office is based on the dialogue i have with all the Member States with the map Political Part is simple your family is in parliament and that we could see and now even though we have a lot of problems of course caused by the pandemic and a lot of problems in each Member States caused by the crisis we are relocating unaccompanied minors from these of the crowd the camps on the greek islands 130 meter of caging p. Thats going to be 1600. 00 and theyre mad procedure have been quicker than anybody have foreseen even though we have these problems so there are a lot of signs also that its optimistic but i would not say that we do not have problems and challenges but the fact that people are coming in regularly as migrants and refugees to the European Union is not a failure for the u. P. A. In union this is a challenge that we have to deal with and im convinced that we can do it together in terms of failure where 900000. 00 the locked up in a camp that is only designed for 3000 and your programs funding the among other things the libyan coast guard result in hundreds and thousands of people being incarcerated against their will raped beaten and so sold as slaves were all russia out of the programs that you found in this direction no shame no shame a little youre happy about the situation you know. You have got to have this situation in libya but i may i just see a question im not ashamed but we are doing from the European Union i do not see how the very very dangerous bad situation in libya would be better if you were a peon union was not there helping refugees to be relocated out of this camps in libya helping people for voluntary returns out of libya to their home countries if we were not there if we were not there to helping out trying to teach the libyan coast guard on humanitarian rights what would be better if you peon union was not there i concede all right commissioner johansson records are having your own comfort zone thank you very much in the theater thank you. Thank you. Eric in northern greece. Splitting the population in. Fear for their jobs in the mines and power stations. Mothers fighting someone into the energy of a plumber shalimar makes. For a blessing extracting calling her a couple. Coming up on d w. 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Stars and may 20th on g. W. This is news and these are our top stories russia has been marking 75 years since the defeat of nazi germany in world war 2 this years commemorations have been scaled back because of the coronavirus pandemic with the traditional large scale procession postponed. In bellerose ceremonies