Of new. Homes. But its more of the s. P. Welcome to conflict zone hello nice to be here with you weve seen some pretty harsh language between your government and the you over your record on democracy and human rights last month your foreign minister actually referred to donald tusk president of the European Council as an icon of evil and stupidity at least slanging matches help your relations with the. I think that on both sides the language is sometimes store. Stronger and sometimes. It does not have in our relationship but also the as a matter of perception is a very important think we have to go. And there were some changes which in the in germany was done twenty five years ago like for instance the commune is ation of the former that are the more kratos republic was was done in one thousand nine hundred one one thousand nine hundred seventy in is german and you know we would later we would like to do the same here the e. U. Doesnt seem to see it in the same terms as and when theyve called it a systematic threat to the rule of law in poland this was from the European Commission by that very important then very interesting because when for instance. In the Czech Republic or in germany there was this vetting or a very few cation of of the past of the. Prophesied in the in the academia in the world of academia this was right when we tried to do the same in poland this was not right so lets lets have the same standards applied for all that but it seems your attitude to criticism is that you should should take it somewhere else zbigniew of your block your Justice Minister compared the e. U. Oversight to nazi germany occupation apolo world i would definitely advocate for for simply the same standards like for instance if we if we see the situation in. Germany you were able twenty five years ago to made a lot college i suppose statements like that well i think that in the context of different discussions different statements i met are made but at the end of the day its its about equal treatment of all the Member States of the of the European Union but its also about listening to the legitimate criticism. And when you have signed up to the values of your queen you know and accept it if the criticism is the gita made i am well coming this this criticism because the democracy and liberal economic liberal democracy is all about being open to criticism so as always you like it its fine but if you dont like it it is just like crazy if i dont like it its the g. Timid criticism as well all i advocate for is also very equal treatment like for instance if if in german a year ago in. There was there were some events which were really not appearing on the surface because all the media treated this as a taboo it was not there was not criticize this was not criticised by the by the European Union are you going commission but it was criticized widely in germany itself so the conventional. Well the commission didnt. Know weeks after money we thought after after it happened but you accept the right of the European Union to say what it feels is part of the label in the video the sister of a been well what they more pretty consistent in their belief that the rule of law and order and democracy is under threat where they live only to have it as a result of the stood the situation they got it all wrong is that they think they completely misunderstood the us isnt something so theres well lets start lets start with the constitutional trigger not in the netherlands in switzerland in luxembourg there is no constitutional problem out even in the netherlands the there is a law which does not allow the judge restored the judge to decide on the on the legislation made by issued by the Proper Parliament so why if this is all right why does the outgoing president of your Constitutional Court say the aim of the legislation that youve introduced is to destroy the court and to create a kind of private counsel for our beloved leader i think humans mr catch in this is very badly this is a very very interesting person are the mr because he is in fact a politician hes not a he was not on the chairman of the constitution trigram he was a politician who tried to support their leaders to understand what is happening in poland we have to make one statement for the first time over the last twenty seven years not for the for the but for the first time so strongly the vox populi so the a very strong voting in favor of some of different solution so lucius has been made and all of that established parties of the political establishment and economy because that is right and also judiciary establishment which was not changed in at the beginning of ninetys they are the fending. Off one i think that maybe this is one thing that is to reject the criticism from the ball but your own ombudsman who is. Charged under the constitution for protecting rights and freedoms in this country spoke of attempts to paralyze the Constitutional Court poll so you havent convinced him either no this is a this is a man with a respectable job inside this person if you talk about on. Adam not. Yes he is at the very forefront is in the advantage of fighting for the previous establishments also it is politically tainted our desire here hes completely politicly tainted is not any more it is you who is against you is only living on the you know me some of the standing in the little that youve been attacked criticism when i read your perfect not perfect not at all if you ask really understands polish british politics if man is part of the tainted or not ninety nine percent would be would be telling you of course he is from the previous establishment of course he is completely leftwing so if from such a person so all of these arguments all of his arguments against the government you dismiss because they are politically tainted or not not not all of that if we talk openly and if we talk seen a studio of course we can understand of the sorts of different criticism and im just telling you that to understand the situation in poland. One can imagine that there was this post communist era frozen for twenty five years and now this. Other started in poland and this and this is a completely different approach to many issues like the institutions institutions lets go what was lost lets lot in europe look at lets look at the court in the in the issues surrounding the court because on the one hand you say everything is fine with the court but we have a tribe you know a president. Tribunal president elected by what the e. U. Considers a questionable procedure another judge elected on a legal basis thats found to be unconstitutional a challenge to the election of three sitting judges seven years after that election so wise if not European Commission so loud and vocal in the summer of two thousand and fifteen when all the Political Parties for which were really bad back then were electing judges which completely in an unlawful way where their lives why were they were listen while they are now but what we are asking why they were they were silent just one and a half years ago when such a drastic. Breach of their of the law happened but you reject that as well then is that you would be net largest net recipient of e. U. Funds. Get excitable some money Something Like one hundred billion has been promised to him twenty fourteen up to twenty twenty. You and other members in Eastern Europe were given a pretty pretty blunt warning by the french president the other day who said europe isnt a cashbox so the Self Service Restaurant the europe where you come and take what you need we take your structural funds or get access to the internal market and then show no solidarity to french or french president president s are known sometimes for very strong words i remember which actually track into so dismissing those as well just very with me for two seconds jacks react think in two thousand and four or to doesnt read that we lost our opportunity to be silent we in the Central Europe so this is not equal treatment and not a level playing fair and im not going to go you think you know let me months out i would say in the treaty of rome we had those four famous freedoms freedom to the provide Services Movement of Migrant Workers movement of capital and goods and three of them are working very very well three of them which are working in favor of richer countries goods capital and people and the last one which could work very much in favor of the Central European countries is maybe twenty percent working the freedom to provide services so i would say that we have to really rethink what was. What was not implemented you dont do the trick youre talking about a rethink youre demanding basic changes to the e. U. Itself field structures Decision Making process your leader has to kaczynski said he wanted to see a new e. U. Treaty. You a man if you would say thirty days a visit these are a lot of these are a lot of demands but the fact is you are among the loudest critics you were in the hungarian its your your model for change is that of the self declared a liberal democracy hungary isnt it because last september before last september your Party Leader Mr kaczynski said we are learning from viktor orban the Prime Minister what we are learning from his example what hungary has done they have done a lot of good things to bring a new balance because it was completely tilted towards selling of the assets Foreign Companies and their ownership in hungary and the economy after twenty five years of transformation was in one thousand nine hundred ninety percent in the hands of foreigners so viktor orban is trying to bring some more balance into this to what hungary has done is get itself condemned by a dozen countries last year the uns peer review process for among other things increasing hostility towards the media and Civil Society and intimidation of reprisals against government. And you seem to like that more not that you seem to like that i. Follow a great whats the person pitch of media in poland or in hungary i dont know its precisely the situation one hundred five years ago but in poland in the hands of only one group i cant i can answer this question ninety five percent is this. Media approach is it about media a new phrase out of no journalists from the public media in this country we have to do it one hundred twenty or call these are doing reporters without her doing well then and when we turn doing all the twenty percent or maybe twenty five percent of what our predecessors done why were you not asking predecessors those questions eight years ago or fifteen years ago why were you happy with post communism. Companies governments and are you not so happy i think that we have to all rethink our relationship because we are very much in all of these are the solar and the. International covenant on sort of a little. Bit of a surprise for you into an International Monetary fund and what the world bank when i was visiting there for a couple of the internet year government on civil and political they were very much in favor of our responsible Development Plan because it is bringing social inclusion it is addressing inequalities in poland we were going too much into oligarchy a view was the right direction view not shared by the tri m. L. V. That monitors compliance with your signature on the International Covenant for civil and Political Rights no no no we were asking those body to come to us like the venice. Commission but i do the same criticized your moves on the constitution the same time scientifically significant significant part of this was implemented so we we are on the same hymn sheet or very close to each other right now why not to take into account those Huge International institutions like i. M. F. And the world bank which were praising us for what weve done in terms of social environment you dont get a lot of praise minister for you attitude to the migrants the ombudsman who you say is politically tainted spoke in october about quite open hatred towards migrants and refugees in public life harris meant physical attacks hate crimes towards him might he must be kidding and this is a actually from the part when i compare what was happening in terms of poland comparing to germany or comparing to france in terms of hatred or hate crimes in the United Kingdom against. Poles or some other c. Citizens this is comp a completely different picture in our situation we are accommodating hundreds of of thousands. If you g. s from ukraine from the war areas of ukraine in some part of the you have an Organization Called never again association which tracks racist and xenophobic incidents it was going to they said they used to record between five and ten such incidents a week another recording that many in a single day recently they say weve had problems keeping up with and gathering and registering all the information we get how bad it was there is some i know of it and you do know how many of them there are record that in germany and in france i saw in i was just what happens in germany miss that happens in all about all this relative you have the compare if you ask in brazil it would be probably daily hundred served or thousand euro much of the reaction of your government to what is going on there was to shut down the main body for preventing such inference incidents april last year to close the council for the prevention of Racial Discrimination xenophobia and related intolerance and you did that without providing another body to take its place why in your thinking in the event seat of the scheme of team things we are taking this very seriously because what brings a security to the country is is the quality of your police is the quality of your Services Special services and so on and given all the recent polls. The level of security in the society increased people feel more secure and in germany in france in italy people feel less secure why is this the tens of thousands weve seen much on the streets of warsaw to protest one or other of your binocular going to switch major leaves they feel more secure which is which is which is the sign off your most here that led them to sign a few of their offices under threat no no no. Heres again youre. Not so objective treatment three years ago you know what the demonstrations were on the streets of war so hundreds of thousands of people you know. Not hardly you have hardly not is them today there are tens of thousands you are right every now and again i have not seen them by the way for the last six months but maybe there will be another the most ration which is a sign of democracy working kampala the un ministers also criticised your partys attitude to migrants and expressed concern that we could statements by state authorities in which they refused to accept refugees of the muslim faith. You know we are accepting gradually lots of immigrants predominantly from lots of refugees people i mean my ground work as the one thing but actually tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of refugees from from your crane so what youre going to lead in twenty three so we believe that europe has its borders at the very south there is a pressure from north africa in greece or in bulgaria there is pressure from the middle east but you dont want muslims you specifically say you do i was a muslim is to accept this then chances are he says muslim refugees would threaten poland to accept lots of muslim muslims as well but not as many as in germany because you are much richer countries because you didnt have fifty years of communism so why did the vatican for the popes visit here last year issue a statement criticizing what it called an artificially created fear of muslims in poland why did the vatican feel necessary to talk i just want to like that i dont know why i think this is one of the most secure countries remember or abuse there with pope the front francis actually with a vacuum vatican presence here millions of people in poland and zero accidents zero crime this is the proof in the eating of evil has occurred even the pope himself you have to remind your own crowd of as he reminded you a merciful heart opens up to welcome refugees which we are doing hundreds of thousands or so this is what this whole government your Prime Minister said in march last year i say very clearly that i see no possibility at this time of immigrants coming to poland and they are belgian they are coming in hundred she says i was initially said we have registered one million one point three to say we didnt she said well i had no idea what and why the politics twenty third of march last year about if youre quite important youre courting crowd but this is in the context and im telling you the whole. Context the whole context was that over the last twelve months weve accepted one point two million of the immigrants out of them our guesstimate is one hundred to two hundred thousand refugees from the war areas this is our contribution to easing the tensions in europe isnt it is it is it easier is it easing the tensions to try to introduce tightening of restrictions on abortion to try and thats a completely different yes it is this is that was this part of the European Union remit its something that people have expressed concern and and youve seen it so youve seen the demonstrate you have to bear down you have a bank and. Look and look what was this israels of tens of thousands of twenty give me twenty seconds give me twenty seconds at least. The government has not submitted and the legislation about this the parliament and the majority has not submitted and legislation or what all what happened was that one quite radical. And g. A. O. Has submitted legislation and we have promised before that if there is a legislation based with you at least one hundred thousand of signatures from our citizens we will get give it a go in the parliament so we have done this it was not the project of the government it was for the project of the parliament and it was a project of the government that we have stepped back it was also one of the projects of the government to try to limit reporters access inside parliament. Access of media yes it was support it was support your party was a project of from the from some part of the Majority Party and we have stepped back we have and we have got funded services on the streets you know youve already voted the first real look you know and its another very good example thank you for this because its another very good example of misunderstanding its not going to be a number of a sudden the stood not minister or sometimes it is so much like your patient is not hearing to you is. Read more newspapers from both sides not only the liberal media really read also the other maybe. That are part of our roman friends two thousand years ago said which means the freedom to of something its not limited its the opposite you know what was the project about the project youre supposing you couldnt have a demonstration you couldnt have it to the researcher at the same time you could give us a good a dancer in the church i think is a very good demonstration no no no they have nothing to go private if there is a completely left. If there is a completely left is the most ration in one place for the last couple of months we would allow this demonstration to be forever this was the project to create more security do you remember is that your most gracious this the rear of my heart isnt not a lot of these projects at least two thirds of the population in poland are buying guns and human rights which is all my generations buying it and i know there are there is a dance as well no no no no there you remember demonstrations two and three years ago on the september eleventh which is the Independence Day in poland there were huge riots on the streets during the times of our of our predecessors why was that because three or four demonstrations were meeting with each other in one place and all the changes which we wanted to implement in the in the new legislation on assembly was to separate them isnt it isnt that the good move thats not what your critics say they said i know it they say its you its you saying who can demonstrate where and solutions and giving the responsibility to Central Government and taking it away we. Play nice xpress this very very loudly everybody can them all straight whatever they want apart from communist and nasty. Opinions ok everybody because this is the country a lot of companies are crime murders we dont allow. For for demonstrations of that kind every think as they can them all straight wherever they want provided that they are not clashing with other the most crucial minister you know youre also your vehicle you only listen to a lot and Justice Party thats thats why im a freshman but of lying just yesterday was very easy for me well you are a freshman twenty five years in the business i think it was your father who got up in nov twenty fifth and said law is important but law is not sacred. Yeah good of the nation is above it so you and your law and Justice Party doesnt accept the primacy of law i dont know exactly like like the famous general german lawyers it would be the five yo and some others they said that the positive is most positive positive approach to law has to and has to stop at some moment because they are saying some things more important than the law of course of course the law is dangerous dangerous and danger life of People Security a more dangerous road to go no it will again just like i dont want to i dont want to be going to were not really told that nobody is above the law and not because of the what it will putting in abstract no no no thats ok so let me build a commission as interpreted by let me let me be very going to predict and you are very precise not abstract as it was in nazi germany the law was very much observed youre not in nazi germany you have a job but i think prime giving you a drastic example with freely elected everything was under the umbrella of law than in the thirtys and in the fortys and this law and this is what the germans in the known barack. You can argue they were actually defending this was i was actually going to have to think ahead like with like that when i hear you are saying i dont see jobs or we are saying abstract this is not up to you still respect in the league legal positive possibly due respect the law of course of course for a spur to respect the law minister the law and justice law and justice not on the law of justice is very important your critics are because it is during the twenty five years of post crosspoint transformation there was very little justice and very bad people were hiding behind the logs actually what your critics say minister thanks very much like you are kind of example thank you. A a a. Charged up and ready to hit the road with an ecard across europe. From italy all the way to norway. Whether innovative compact or sporty its got to be emissions free. Across europe by electric car is it possible. Europe goes electric made in germany next to. Their black and living in germany she is reminded of what that means on a daily basis presenter going up like this if you see all these stereotypes about africa it gets you she traveled across germany to meet other black people and to hear their stories. The more you do something for your country but youre still the black and. Afro germany. In forty five minutes on d w. Its you know i mean in your mind. What im focused on in this you know what im like why didnt work and i said ive got it at them it. Was here so yes it can ive only said that i caught it going on where theyre being funded. Its all about the moments that like before. Its all about the stories inside. Its all about George Chance to discover the world from different perspectives. Join us and abuse fired by distinctive instagram murders at g. W. Stories new topics each week on instagram