kinds of charges they're leveling against him. this is both a challenge to obviously this individual who could suffer greatly, to the belarusian opposition, but more broadly, this is once again putin and one of his cronies essentially shattering any sense of international norms because if you can ground planes to suit authoritarians, i mean, we've all been on planes that have flown over the air space of one autocratic government or another. imagine living in a world where that is normalized and that's just part of what happens. that's why this response from the u.s. and europe really has to be forceful in demonstrating that you've crossed every line here. >> and what is the white house policy process -- what would you guess it looks like today behind the scenes? >> well, i think what it looks like is there's some basic steps you want to take out of the gate and you want to be seen to be acting in coordination with europe because us acting together is going to be much more impactful than acting alone and i think a starting place, because it was a crime, essentially a terrorist