that he thought that there was a decent argument from the defense that the misrepresentations to the bank were not material, which is one element of the crime, because ultimately the ceo decided for unrelated reasons -- unrelated to the misrepresentations, i should say, to grant the loan. but the judge correctly said this is really an issue for the jury to decide, it's a factual issue, you can make this argument but it's not for the judge to step into the shoes of the jury and throw out the counts. >> now, chuck, as a former prosecutor in this district who knows the judge very well, and we know that there is a lot of debate over whether he was putting his finger on the scale, you then, before you get to closing arguments, there would be a charging conference with both sides, which could get
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