are really struggling. >> so that's michael, basically why i like this pope. i'm in that group of people that finds him -- i'm a fallen away roman catholic. i like the pope for all those reasons. there's two roles of pope, the public facing role, which is kind of like the dalai lama, this international moral figure. and then there's a guy who runs the catholic church. my sense is traditionalist catholics like yourself aren't crazy how the pope has been doing that role. >> right. listen, he is an almost frightenly popular, especially for a man throwing under this thunder bolts at the entire system of western capitalism and the oppressors across the entire globe. many of whom he's meeting, technically. he's meeting people on the tarmac that have tremendous power. he's popular because of his critique of power. but on the day to day running of the church, yes, some catholics like myself are looking at a
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