and at the same time, incredibly difficult for them in the culture they're in to move into a more western view of this, and so there's just this incredible frustration. >> there is an incredible frustration, but it's also happening in a certain context of a region that's mired in conflict and war. and that's a very important component. and also in a country where, at one point, these young men, you know, had this very strong sense of hope. there was a revolution, there was this brief moment that really sort of motivated people and made them feel like they could matter, that he could be a somebody, he could really sort of, you know, change his life, take charge, and then that sort of collapsed. >> what do we know about -- all of that, i think i can follow, and the part that i haven't heard anyone describe is how we get from that recruitment point to now you're a member of this fighting force. >> right.