people into politics is a good thing, i think, right or left. you want that. i think what people are concerned about is the tactics. we're talking about shutting the government down, talking about not raising the debt ceiling. these are rather extreme tactics to negotiate the budget rather than just doing it to -- >> not completely unprecedented. we've shut down the government before and survived. we haven't done the debt ceiling thing, which is the next crisis coming. if we have a choice and it seems like at this moment the choice may be to inoculate with the government shutdown now or deal with the problem of the debt crisis next, is it better to just go ahead and shut it down given that we have shut down in the past? >> well, neither is a good option. >> governing would be better. >> better is to govern and deal with budget disputes through the legislative process, and republicans also remember the political backlash they faced after the shutdown in 1996. >> i want to stay right there because that's what i want to talk about is the political process when we come back. i'm not sure if it's a political process when john boehner is such a very, very bad daddy.
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