this. many of their troops, many of their numbers, have been caught by it. this nexus of e-mail, telecom, phone communications and financial data, this tripartide next does. when they say, my god, we're handing a weapon, to the terrorists. the terrorists are very clear, anyone with a passing interest in this realm of terror understands exactly how this process works because it's been published many times in many places. in my book, in other books, in the newspapers. and that's certainly a main issue that they need to be concerned about. how do we get caught? how do we evade them? and so this whole notion that they say time and again, oh, gosh, now we've handed a weapon to the terrorists, now they know how we do it is actually pretty hollow and i think they kind of know that. >> it seems like we're getting two arguments. one, this program has been irreparably harmed by discussing the details of it, and, two, the program is very, very effective, we just can't tell you how. seems like those aren't great --
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