they got paid to assess risk, and yet when they came across loan applications that should have set off alarms, their supervisors didn't want to hear about it. >> even if we suspected, we had to say this appears to be incorrect. you would never say this looks fraudulent. >> fraud in the due diligence world, fraud was the "f" word or the "f" bomb. you didn't use that word. >> even if a loan was clearly stated income that made no sense, there was no support. >> but you didn't use the word fraud. >> but it was fraud? you saw loans -- >> by your terms and my terms, yes, it was fraud. >> the obama justice department has settinged these shady banking practices and come up with nothing. >> what i do believe when we speak to the whistle-blowers, we