what would you be excited to build? they're the most likely user base to buy whatever you build. >> this vip list of users, how did you recruit them and do you pay them? >> we call it learn vest labs. they write into us on a regular basis, i love what you're doing. we said, hey, we'd love to talk to you on a regular basis and give you the inside scoop on what we're thinking and developing. do you want to be part of that? absolutely. they get to help shape our services. they're excited. they give us clear guidance on what they would be -- >> is this via e-mail? >> via e-mail, phone, and focus groups. we ran about 100 focus groups this year talking to customers in real life. ask those customers, because they're also likely the ones who will buy whatever you're going to sell. >> for those of us in small business, we're often so busy doing business that we neglect taking care of business, so if
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