republican rhetoric around the debt or deficits, which are distinct things, one is a total that accumulates the debt. the deficit is what we are spending more than we're taking in each year. you cannot listen to them on that. and attach the standard semantic meaning to those words and make sense of them or their actions, you cannot think that they're speaking at face value about the things they say they're speaking about. debt and deficits and look at the way they behave. >> is that, is that just dissonance on their part? or -- >> i think they care a lot and have a lot of dissonance. out of power parties often care a lot about the debt. in the bush years, democrats were very, very upset about bush's deficits and -- >> barack obama voted against the debt ceiling famously, now in the obama years, republicans have become enormously concerned about debt and deficits, no not