use them infinitely. there wasn't an advanced macintosh for smarter people or techier people. >> that's right. >> the ground level was accessible to everybody and the furthest you could go was the furthest anybody could go. i feel like that was different about apple and jobs than anybody else. do you feel that way? >> it certainly was a radical idea at the time that apple formed, at the time that this part of the computer revolution took form. the idea that you didn't have to be a fancy person with a computer engineering degree in a suit to operate a highly powerful computer with incredible capabilities. the idea that you could be just a regular person. this idea that when technology becomes really, really revolutionary, it's the moment that our parents, that our children, that grandma and grandpa can do simple tasks on a device, that same device that might be used by scientists, by