so he will have two solid lifelong still sets. and college wasn't the right fit for him. he's a smart person but going through this academic factory wasn't going to do him any good and all he would get on the other side is frustration and a bunch of debt. but here you have -- and you know, if you look at the holes in some of the technical jobs, these are baby boomers. and a lot of people who are plumbers and welders are from working class neighborhoods who are now aging and there aren't enough younger people who are willing to -- because they don't know it's a path. it's been drilled into people's head that you have to go to a four-year university. for a lot of people they say why because what do they get out of it. and a lot of the trade schools don't have the problem that the four-year universities have, the bloated administration and no incentive to do any service to young people going through getting degrees. there's in accountability at all. steve: yes.