pre-existing in the americas. the native population practice slavery as i'm sure you know. my only point -- i'm not even here -- i'm not defending columbus. i don't need to, he's not a relative of mine, he's been dead for 500 years. i just want to make two points, one that history is a lot more complex than theologians were mishandling it. people are complicated. this is not really about columbus, it's about attacking western civilization, european influence on the americas. you should think through the implications of it, don't you think you might >> again, i view it very differently. i think that this is about people like columbus. we don't go and talk about people who kill 200,000 people through whatever means and enslaved people, columbus on one occasion actually for a man who stole corn, he cut off his ears and nose and sold him into slavery. that's the kind of brutality that we represent? i really don't think so.