well is for the company to move forward, and is for -- and i think this is important, you know, many of the individuals, even if there is no -- if there is no evidence of wrongdoing, or anything like that, and i think that -- you know, and no evidence of impropriety, many individuals have chosen that it's time to part ways. i was not involved with the discussions with mr. chapman, i wasn't in there. >> you have no evidence of any complicity of mr. chapman to cover up the existence of the file that -- >> i do not have that. >> can you tell us the employment statement of daniel cloak. >> he left the company some time ago. i don't know his employment. he is not in the business. he was director of human resources for a number of years, not that many actually, i'm not sure, but left over a year ago, i think, but i can follow-up with you the status. >> okay. i'm just going very quickly to the witnesses who came to us. and, again, in respect to the