there was clearly untoward activity, but everybody lied about it. michael cohen is going to jail for lying about it. >> can i also just add it's not surprising that cohen didn't really know much about russia and collusion, because trump style like a criminal enterprise is to compartmentalize. so what you know is not what he knows. and that's deliberate. only one person knows the whole story. so it's not at all surprising that there were gaps in mr. cohen's knowledge. that's by design. >> do you think -- the president pointed out that michael cohen said no collusion. he didn't actually say no collusion. he said he had no direct evidence of it, though he had suspicions. do you think the fact that he up front said he has no direct evidence actually adds to his credibility? >> i think it does. and i think the president's statement today really undercut the entire republican strategy yesterday, which was to try to discredit this witness. >> because he pointed out -- >> even trump liked some of what he had to say and corroborated that that must be true, because that's what i like.