take the fifth because i don't want to tell the real story. the question here is not whether people lied. it's about contacts with the russians. if they weren't significant, why does everybody lie? >> i think, yes, it is about context with the russians, that's what mueller is investigating, whether there was collusion but i think it matters that donald trump lied if you believe what investigators have laid out in all these documents when he was a kacandidate, he's koblted to lie to the american people when he was in the white house. and one of the questions that springs to mind is why? donald trump may still have won even if there were women that they had paid off, even if the american public knew he was working on this project in moscow. he may still have won. but you are left with this picture that donald trump and all of the people he surrounds himself with are willing to do whatever it takes to get power and then to stay in power. >> pamela brown, what do you think? how's the white house going to deal with all this? >> the white house is going to down play this, saying it doesn't implicate the president on legal grounds and saying that, look, if michael cohen really had damaging information
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