before they split up because one of them has turned state's evidence, whether the two of them have reaped huge amounts of money, which they did not pay taxes on, which they violated any number of different laws and regulations about because of their greed. that's what will ultimately be before the jury. >> on the greed, so you have gloria, this battle of two liars. you have the admitted liar and you have the accused liar. ultimately it is the jury who will decide who they believe. >> right. also don't forget there are documents they'll be looking at. there's an accountant, there's a woman who admitted that she was falsifying documents for paul manafort. >> the paper trail. >> right. it's not just that you have one liar against another liar. there are no heroes in this